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I asked James Jacobs if he ever wanted to do a High Level Play book and he said, yes, but he has yet to sell the pitch to management who finds Player options books more viable.
So it got me wondering. How would you make a High Level Play book, viable for GM's and Players alike. Give it enough meat that anyone who wants to play a more powerful game would pick it up.
The GM uses would be great. Tips and Tricks for action economy control, ways of handling multiple sustained buffs, etc. Ways to speed up monster fights.
For players, that's tricker. Maybe talking about the choice of options to multiclass or not, or to build for archtypes and how to get the most out of later feat trees? Finally ways of managing large sums of gear/money/etc.
Can you think of ways to make such a book worth it to Paizo to publish, ie. worth it to player and GM alike to buy?
Index cards help a lot. Helps for keeping track of buffs, conditions, initiative, monster stats, everything. I like them for monster stats and I'll have to show you the template I use for them.
Also, I recently printed up a list of all the condition that can be placed on someone, from Bleed to Unconscious. Helps to have them all in one place and the GM screen skips a bunch.
Reading what a creature does ahead of time helps so you can understand their tactics, use their abilities properly, and aren't surprised that "X does that!?!" Harder one to do with work and life and such, obviously.
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I know this discussion has come up before, but for my money, I'd put a little less emphasis on the combat oriented side of things, and more on the other sorts of things that high level PCs should be involved in: Kingdom building, armies, rulership. Politics and intrigue. Etc.
Basically, putting a lot of the things that were finally compiled into Ultimate Campaign into action. How to weave them together, maybe some streamlined rules for it. I know there has been talk recently of some more building of the Mass Combat rules (using Troops for smaller units to fight PCs, making the rules more suitable to an ongoing campaign, etc.)
I used to really enjoy all of that sort of thing from the Companion and Masters sets for BECMI, and they definitely feel "high level" to me.
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What would you cover in this area, that Ultimate Campaign did not address?I know this discussion has come up before, but for my money, I'd put a little less emphasis on the combat oriented side of things, and more on the other sorts of things that high level PCs should be involved in: Kingdom building, armies, rulership. Politics and intrigue. Etc.
I guess what you could do is have the High Level Play book be to Ultimate Campaign what Mythic Realms is to Mythic Adventures - a book showing how to slot those rules into actual play, maybe even Golarion-flavor it so it can fit into the Campaign Setting release schedule (making it a lot easier to pitch to TPTB than a standalone release that would divert staff from other things) and give some examples of areas of Golarion where PCs might be able to create their own kingdoms.
Definitely along the lines of what Matt suggested. Plus I'd try and provide some ideas of alternate sorts of rewards beyond just the standard sorts of magic, wealth for PCs. Things like influence, fame. Perhaps even suggestions and examples of mythic trials related to kingdom building and mass combat (Legendary General, Might of Kings, etc.).
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Also, I could very much see such a book addressing, at least in part, adventuring on other planes- something that I've always felt is more of a higher level sort of thing.
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Also, I could very much see such a book addressing, at least in part, adventuring on other planes- something that I've always felt is more of a higher level sort of thing.
Oh! Yes, how could I have forgotten that! Extraplanar adventuring would be perfect. Covering dominions, titles, and planar travels would be very much in keeping with the old D&D Companion/Masters boxed sets.
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I've been calling for such a book for years.
It basically has to be a GM book.
At a minimum, the book needs a sizable chapter on benchmark spells and how they affect your planning as a GM. Past 9th level, this is the #1 consideration of any experienced GM.
The value to players would be implicit. Players are forever complaining that their campaigns end too quickly, and this is because the strain that all of the player option books place on the GM.
It's a shame that this book is not a higher priority, since it is essential for the long-term health of the current product.
...
If I had to make it marketable to players (which I do think is a lower priority) I would probably expand "high level" concepts like leadership and crafting, add mythic options, but find anything "high level" that was not yet covered and cram it into that book.
I would also allow rule options (maybe feats, but feats are overloaded now, and we want people to use these) that allowed players to choose a simpler roll for a modest bonus. For example, if a wizard normally rolls 15d6 (52 avg) for a given spell, they might be allowed to roll 1d6+52 instead.
Something similar for martials, inspired by Trailblazer's iterative attacks (but different enough to be legal because it grants different math bonuses) — fewer iteratives, all the same number, slight bonus over the normal system.
In both examples, the bonus should be just enough for a player to opt in, but not enough to seriously change the outcome. You want to grant options that make each turn resolution simpler in addition to slightly more powerful.
Just a thought.
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I cannot count the number of times I have been advising an enthusiastic new GM and they say: "I want the party to be established and competent so I was thinking of starting them at 12th level. My adventure idea is about a murder in town and bugbears in a dungeon with a trap that works like..."
Someone needs to spell it out for these people. You CAN have that plot at 12th level. Leaving aside the issue of starting at 12th level with limited GM experience, you can totally have that plot at 12th level, you just need to know about 50 things to make it work. How do you level the bugbears? What magical countermeasures make their dungeon secure? How did the murderer cover his tracks?
The answers to these questions are intuitive at level 1. They stay pretty normal until level 5 or 7. After that, you really need to know the game cold in order to keep things from falling apart.
Mind you, we're talking about the second HALF of a 20 level game. (Well I tend to think of 16 as the endgame, it's gotten that bad. I might lower it to 12 for my own sake soon.) Are we really ready to throw out half the book for new GMs because of the complexity?
Yup. That's what I tell them.
However, the real answer — the one that involves spell countermeasures and a detailed understanding of the advancement arc — is more informative and effective. It better convinces the novice to work in lower level campaigns, and prepares them mentally for the inevitable game changes.
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I also want player friendly options. I love the idea MEL to include ways to simplify and speed up the math at higher levels. Doing things like fast averages will help.
But I also want to offer players mastery level options too. A tighter understanding what it means to be a high level rogue or wizard helps a lot in planning a character for a long game. Hot and fast higher level character gen options, etc.
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Conversely I would reply, do we really expect novice GM's to eat the whole cake at once? High level play is not for the system tyro to administer, that's the plain simple fact. If they want a course in doing high level play, having them do an Adventure Path might be the best way to do so. Most will take characters to 17, and the current one will take them all the way to 20/10, I think.
Mind you, we're talking about the second HALF of a 20 level game. (Well I tend to think of 16 as the endgame, it's gotten that bad. I might lower it to 12 for my own sake soon.) Are we really ready to throw out half the book for new GMs because of the complexity?
Of course not.
But if even one campaign ends because a first-time GM can't handle the level his players reached, that's bad for the game. Adventure Paths are helpful, but they do not contain the requisite knowledge to keep the game on the tracks, or how to regain control if it veers off the tracks.
If it happens even once, the players might put the game down and move on to something else.
I wish I hadn't mentioned starting at 12th. It's sort of irrelevant to my argument. What's really at issue are GMs who have only run a few sessions and suddenly they're dealing with the complex chessmatch that high level games are meant to be. A little guidance is in order.
This isn't the same as player-centric play advice. Players can fail a bit, and they're expected to. But when the GM fails, that's a catastrophe. The game should not be in the business of promoting system mastery amongst GMs by weeding out the weak, or trial and error.
I've said for a long time that each player option book makes the game harder to pick up and keep running. Each GM technique book stabilizes the whole thing, by providing legitimate expectations. There really could be a GM companion line — a series of books like the player companions — for this kind of thing. But I would settle for another GMG every 3 or 4 years.
I've been calling for such a book for years.
It basically has to be a GM book.
At a minimum, the book needs a sizable chapter on benchmark spells and how they affect your planning as a GM. Past 9th level, this is the #1 consideration of any experienced GM.
The value to players would be implicit. Players are forever complaining that their campaigns end too quickly, and this is because the strain that all of the player option books place on the GM.
It's a shame that this book is not a higher priority, since it is essential for the long-term health of the current product.
...
If I had to make it marketable to players (which I do think is a lower priority) I would probably expand "high level" concepts like leadership and crafting, add mythic options, but find anything "high level" that was not yet covered and cram it into that book.
I would also allow rule options (maybe feats, but feats are overloaded now, and we want people to use these) that allowed players to choose a simpler roll for a modest bonus. For example, if a wizard normally rolls 15d6 (52 avg) for a given spell, they might be allowed to roll 1d6+52 instead.
Something similar for martials, inspired by Trailblazer's iterative attacks (but different enough to be legal because it grants different math bonuses) — fewer iteratives, all the same number, slight bonus over the normal system.
In both examples, the bonus should be just enough for a player to opt in, but not enough to seriously change the outcome. You want to grant options that make each turn resolution simpler in addition to slightly more powerful.
Just a thought.
Honestly I think having player stuff in there is a good idea. Not necessarily player options, but player advice for how to share the responsibility and stress of high level play. Things like planning turns ahead of time, or keeping track of buff that are normally up. Shifting around some of the Gm responsibility can really help with making things go faster.
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Agreed, but a lot of that stuff has been covered. I'm really not looking for the GMG again. I want more new and helpful material.
As it stands, it's really up to the GM to connect the dots with respect to certain spells and effects and how they change the game. A lot of GMs need to know how to call out the limitations of things like teleport and overland flight — these are things the the GM needs to account for when they are planning their game. You might put the villain's fortress, let's say, on a mountain that pierces the death zone and is protected from specific scrying spells. That idea didn't come out of nowhere, it came from very experienced GMs making the call early on that that was the best policy.
There's a give and take to high level play, a kind of measure vs. countermeasure that is what makes it feel epic (for lack of a better word). But the CRB says nothing about this stuff, and the GMG says little. Is it really the intention that GMs should have to learn from their own mistakes constantly to master the game? Or maybe we could cut them some slack, and get that procedural knowledge into a book.
I think it would be easy for a designer to have huge, important blind spots for this. Like the beginner box — these guys know the game better than anyone, so it makes it very difficult to remember what it was like not to know. It's my wild speculation that perhaps that's why this kind of book is a low priority. It's been a while since they even saw a GM confronted with these issues, but for many of us they are commonplace.
It starts with benchmark spells. Treat that subject in any depth, and it will reveal the entire collection of issues with high level play that needs to be tackled.
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+1 to the dead president.
Some really good ideas by Mythic Evil Lincoln here. I agree that a high level book should be largely GM oriented, but I do think there should be some Player information as well (if only as alternative ways for GMs to present experience related growth to the PCs that are not covered by the existing rules).
Some really good ideas by Mythic Evil Lincoln here. I agree that a high level book should be largely GM oriented, but I do think there should be some Player information as well (if only as alternative ways for GMs to present experience related growth to the PCs that are not covered by the existing rules).
The main reason I'd want to get player information into it is to answer the main point of this thread - making it a viable product for Paizo. If it's only going to be attractive to GMs, it'll stay bottom of the priority heap behind all of the better-selling player option books.
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Another notion for high-level guidance:
Most GMs still think of WBL as a rule that they have to obey. I often point out that it is a part of the challenge metrics, not a rule that constrains the GM.
One of the best and easiest ways to keep things under control in a high level game is to starve the players for treasure a little. Done right, it lets you lag on CR by a whole level or two, which helps GMs hit the target for specific challenges. It's a totally reasonable approach.
I'd like to see some methods like that discussed, but more importantly, I'd like to see these things made procedural. It would help if there was a common language for GMs that tied together all of these disparate tools. A new, more comprehensive version of the Gamemastering chapter — one that actually gives GMs a step-by-step procedure for the gaming session, broken down in the same level of detail afforded to combat.
Group rules by type of scene. Procedures for exploration, procedures for social encounters, procedures for treasure distribution (NOT generation). That stuff. The stuff we experienced GMs (and certainly the developers) take for granted.
I can only describe what I feel is lacking, it seems. And that's certainly not player options. Pathfinder's got that.
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If we're looking at a high level play book as covering levels 10-20 then we don't need a ton of "player options". As people have said, we already have a ton of options that most don't get to explore because games tend to die out prior to reaching these levels. What I would want to see in a book would probably be the following:
1 - The story: How "high level" plots need to evolve from simple dungeon delves in order to keep players on their toes and involved. Like Lincoln said, the 12th level characters running after Bugbear assassins can work, but it's not really the kind of thing Venture-Captains and their ilk are busy doing. Plot and Meta-plot ideas would be an invaluable resource to GMs who aren't already used to making this stuff up.
2 - The Following: If you hit level 6, there's a good chance someone takes Leadership as a feat. How do you incorporate Cohorts and the veritable army of low level characters a player can have at these levels? How does that fit into the story, what adventure hooks can come from this?
3 - The BBEGs: The last thing you want is games that devolve into "Hey let's go kill the Terrasque for giggles." Creating high level opponents that don't just wipe the party is a process in and of itself. With the access to magic that players have, how do villains protect themselves? Also in this section would be advice on how to play some of the more powerful beastiary creatures out there. Vicious tactics for evil outsiders, high level undead, dragons, etc.
4 - Magic items: How to handle powerful magic items, their creation, access to them, etc.
That's what I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure a lot of it is covered in other books, which is why a dedicated book seems low priority. Generally if I hear "High Level" I'm thinking in terms of 15-20+
Some really good ideas by Mythic Evil Lincoln here. I agree that a high level book should be largely GM oriented, but I do think there should be some Player information as well (if only as alternative ways for GMs to present experience related growth to the PCs that are not covered by the existing rules).The main reason I'd want to get player information into it is to answer the main point of this thread - making it a viable product for Paizo. If it's only going to be attractive to GMs, it'll stay bottom of the priority heap behind all of the better-selling player option books.
I think you make a good point, in that a DM-centric high level book has the potential to have limited appeal. However, it's worth pointing out that Paizo's APs are amongst their best selling products each month (possibly eclipsed by the rulebook line now?). There used to be a commonly espoused view that "you can't make money from adventures because players outnumber DMs 4:1" which has been pretty thoroughly disproven (even if it still contains some insight).
Granted an AP has more than an adventure but it's still predominantly DM material and is a strong seller - so the concept of a popular book as described by Mythic Evil Lincoln isnt impossible.
I think you make a good point, in that a DM-centric high level book has the potential to have limited appeal. However, it's worth pointing out that Paizo's APs are amongst their best selling products each month (possibly eclipsed by the rulebook line now?). There used to be a commonly espoused view that "you can't make money from adventures because players outnumber DMs 4:1" which has been pretty thoroughly disproven (even if it still contains some insight).Granted an AP has more than an adventure but it's still predominantly DM material and is a strong seller - so the concept of a popular book as described by Mythic Evil Lincoln isnt impossible.
Oh, I agree totally. It's not me that needs persuading, though ;)
I think a predominately GM book would be fine - however there needs to be some kind of content that'll entice everyone else to pick up a copy - details on planar adventuring could well do that by itself. It's just a matter of making sure it's highlighted as a selling point.
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I actually think much of this information should be in the core rule book or game masters guide. This information should be upfront. This is one of the most important aspects for the long term health of the game and campaigns.
One of the biggest problems I see with AD&D, 3.X, and Pathfinder is the lack of clarity around how the game changes as characters level and the types of challenges and adventures the characters should face. The types of adventures characters have at 1st level cannot be the same kind you have at 15th. The characters change too much to make that sustainable. GMs need to understand how the scale in power relates to the default assumptions of the game and what the impact is on different types of stories and play. I think being upfront with DMs and letting them know what to expect gives them the ability to make decisions early and tailor their games to the style of play they want. Discussing styles of play and how they relate to the power scale would help as well.
In B/X and earlier versions of D&D, while it was not explicitly stated, the rules and the books dictated the move from dungeon exploration, to wilderness exploration, to the eventual creation of a small kingdom. I think this needs to be explicitly spelled out and given some clarification and guidelines. I think so much of the frustration with 3.X and Pathfinder is that many DMs and groups don't realize they need to transition to a different style of play at higher levels and they don't understand where those transitions are. Lets help with that!
Lets also give them options and ideas on how to expand upon the area of play they enjoy the most. Lets promote the idea of E6.
One thing I will give 4E credit for is at least introducing the idea of tiers back into the game and trying to do something with the idea. Now, I don't think we need to go that structured and we should expand it beyond what kind of monsters you can expect to fight at each tier, but the basic idea has merit. Even Monte Cook (IIRC) was the one who described 3.X as four distinct power levels.
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Now, all that said. I don't know if most of this should actually be a book. A lot of this information could be really valuable to just have as weekly or bi-weekly blog posts.
Besides that, I was thinking that just as there is an Advanced Players Guide, why not an Advanced Game Masters Guide? Here's all of the tips, tricks, and treats of running high level games. Here's how to reduce the level of magic in the game without unbalancing things. Here's how to ramp up the magic without unbalancing things. Here's how to simplify and streamline high level combat. Here are the spells that drastically alter the game as characters level. Here's how you deal with them and here's the ramifications for altering or removing them.
The more I think about the game, the more I begin to think why bother with the system if I don't know these things in advance. The game is already complicated enough, why should we make the DM's job harder by not giving them this information up front. I almost feel like Paizo shouldn't bother printing levels 10 - 20 if they don't provide some of this information.
Like MEL said, why should we force everyone to learn by trial and error instead of just giving them the info up front? Otherwise you are going to have DMs like me who say screw it, why do I want to fight with the system, I'll just stick to Pathfinder Basic or some other system.
So, there's the "Streamline Feats" idea above, which I think is pretty good.
Then there's the fact that straight-up advice doesn't make a very good rules product, but many of us recognize that there is advice missing from the game.
I think the compromise is to break down the act of running the game into procedures. They do a bit of this in the GMG, but it could be broken down even further. I want actual lists of things to consider when running the game. A good example is how and where to use traps. There is a lot of info buried on the forums about the emergent properties of traps and what they actually mean in the adventure besides a speedbump and a gold tax. This needs to be laid out there.
Another one is the exploration round's procedure. I wish wish wish there were a simple checklist that had everything and the kitchen sink on it.
If there was a book that had procedures for dungeons, exploration, social scenes, etc... not advice but actual procedural lists, even a veteran GM would find that handy. It would make running the game so much easier. It is rather ambitious, I'll grant you that.
I think "streamlined bonuses" would be advantageous as well. The groans heard at the table when a dispel magic is dropped has the local zombie hunters knocking at the door.
The procedure idea is good. I was thinking scenarios but procedures is probably a better way to handle it. Included with each procedure should be some kind of list of applicable skills. Sometimes just knowing what basic skills are appropriate or applicable to a situation is really useful.
Also, around knowledge checks, they should provide some examples and guidelines around what kind of information should be conveyed at each DC. Sometimes it is tough to know whether a Knowledge:Local check should be a DC 15 or DC 20 or higher.
EDIT: heck, at levels 10+ is knowledge: local even useful or relevant?
A broader "Advanced Gamemaster's Guide" product is a good idea, I think.
Good ideas all around in this thread, but any such book also needs to deal with things like buff synergies, WBL problems, the rocket tag problem and how to avoid it, the importance of having enemies with a high initiative (see: rocket tag), options paralysis and how one of the biggest problems is the abundance of buff spells available to players.
The latter is a problem Paizo actually recognized (Lisa Stevens wrote a memorable post during the beta playtest about just that) but chose not to effectively address during the playtest period. At one time, a "buff slots" limitation was considered but ultimately rejected (due to fan complaints, according to what James said). Maybe that idea could be reintroduced as an optional rule to cut down on the GM work to make the opposition more equal to player characters. One of the worst chores in high level play as a GM is to apply ten to fifteen buffs spells to NPC groups (like the PC's will have on them... the Communal spells from Ultimate Combat are a big offender in that regard).
Our highest level party is 12th level, and we’re going fine. Despite the CW here, out Fighter is far and away the most powerful PC in the party. So far!
But yes, we can see a wall coming. It’s just not yet there at only 12th. Buff spells are only starting to be an issue. But in 3.5 my PC had three pages of standard buffs. One thing is that our DM has put some limits on sourcebooks. I think a DM is crazy to just let in everything from every source.
However, yes, Evil Lincoln and others have come up with some good ideas. It is obviously an issue, even if it doesn’t kick in until level 17 or whatever.
Oh, overbuffed players are definitely a problem before. ^^
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A lot high level play issues concern scrying, teleportation, and planar travel. And there isn't a lot of guidance in print as to how to make that stuff challenging. I worked it out for my campaign, but that is based on a lot of experience. I can see the value of such a book.
Well there was a reason why old school went Basic ->Expert-> Master
each tier of play had different considerations not just for DMs but for players.
On the Player side of things there is Managing your cohorts and followers, your growing reputation, you start getting into the higher end of the item creation stuff, better ways to manage resources.
There could also be more attention to Prestige classes and their place in the world. 4E did have some good ideas with things like the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies (Poor execution but decent ideas). Some of that thinking could be better applied to Prestige classes to make them more a living part of high level character development instead of just min/max system tweaking.
For DMs I would love some Mob as Monster rules. PCs vs. "Army of Orcs" Advice on High DC vs. Skill checks.
The idea of Buff slots I think is actually overdue. There is an old Monte Cook rule I like that limited the number of running spells a spell caster could have to his Primary Attribute modifier.
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I think in addition to advice, high level adventure seeds would also be useful. I think some people transitioning to high level play have trouble creating good high level plotlines.
Really I think the way the 2e High Level Camapigns book did it would be a decent template. I thought that book had a lot of good advice for dealing with PC power, scaling up encounters, and so forth.
I have a few high level guidelines myself:
- Don't try to defeat spells like scry, teleport, and so forth. Make the adventure require them instead.
- Make adventures that seem impossible. Get your plot, and then plug up every possible PC solution you can think of. Your PCs will find a way you didn't consider, trust me. At high levels it's about the PCs using their amazing abilities to do the impossible, less about them following your careful breadcrumb trail.
- Even if your PCs don't want to get into nobility or kingdom building, high level characters are going to become famous. You can have some very fun roleplaying and plots just dealing with this. I was once in a high level game where our 15th level party wandered into a small village and the bard offered to "play at the inn for free room and board." The GM told him, "You do realize this is like Aerosmith just showed up at a hotel in Podunk, Nowhere unannounced and offered to do an impromptu concert, right?" High level PCs are among the best in the world at what they do, and this has consequences.
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I asked James Jacobs if he ever wanted to do a High Level Play book and he said, yes, but he has yet to sell the pitch to management who finds Player options books more viable.
So it got me wondering. How would you make a High Level Play book, viable for GM's and Players alike. Give it enough meat that anyone who wants to play a more powerful game would pick it up.
The GM uses would be great. Tips and Tricks for action economy control, ways of handling multiple sustained buffs, etc. Ways to speed up monster fights.
For players, that's tricker. Maybe talking about the choice of options to multiclass or not, or to build for archtypes and how to get the most out of later feat trees? Finally ways of managing large sums of gear/money/etc.
Can you think of ways to make such a book worth it to Paizo to publish, ie. worth it to player and GM alike to buy?
Nearly every player I have ever had has always wanted to see their PC advance to the highest level possible. They often get extremely excited about feats and class abilities not available to them until higher levels--look at how many feats you don't get until BAB+11, for example. If anything, players are the most passionate advocates for high level play. The only thing that stops them is a GM being unable or unwilling to run adventures at levels high enough to let the players play out their fantasy.
ERGO ANY HIGH LEVEL PLAY BOOK IS GOING TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO PLAYERS. Because it means that GMs have a toolbox to fulfill their wishes, which they otherwise frequently lack.
Of course, I realize that is probably not what the unconvinced at Paizo's upstairs want to hear. They want to know what options players could actively use that would make them buy the book in addition to GMs, as of course there are always more players than GMs. (Of course, if there were more books that supported GMs, there'd be more GMs, and then GMs would recruit more players, but nobody listens to me.)
Anyway: what could a high level focused book offer directly, mechanically to players? LOTS:
1. Prestige classes: I am not a big Prestige Class fan myself, but I know there's a LOT of people who want more than what is available in the RPG line (especially since most of the ones in the APG frankly suck and/or are way, way, way too narrowly designed for too small a pool of classes/class combinations). Prestige classes alone would probably ABSOLUTELY help sell any book to players, let alone a high level one. But Prestige classes would be especially appropriate for a high-level focused book, as you generally don't qualify for them until at least level 7, and don't see them blossom until you're well into the level 10-20 area.
2. Feats: Like I said, there are already a number of feats with high level prerequisites. More are probably not going to rock the boat, especially if they add some fun fantastical elements for different play styles. And players love more feat options, I've noticed.
3. Spells and other magical effects: More high level spells, and maybe something like an "epic spell/10th level" that could be gained in lieu of a feat at high levels. Alternately, some kind of rituals system focused toward high level spellcasters that enables fun plotty things like summoning Great Old Ones (which should be more than just a spell) or doing other powerful magic things but are balanced by the time, people, and materials needed to cast.
4. Artifacts and rules for things like weapons that advance with you as you level (that aren't mythic). Players LOVE that kind of thing.
5. Additional downtime rules, pinging off of Ultimate Campaign, for high level characters, focusing on stuff like what to do when you already have your fully built and staffed castle. You could also build off of Ultimate Campaign with stuff like army battles---at high levels you are going to be more likely to be engaged in politics, large scale combat, etc. These are useful for players and GMs alike.
It goes without saying there's still lots of stuff for GMs--AND THAT GM's DESPERATELY NEED---and there would be room for in such a book; I'm not going to cover them because it's been covered here and elsewhere. But I think the above would easily attract attention for players to buy as well.
Well, to be fair, what's a "buff spell"? Sure, Haste, Heroism. But how about Darkvision?
They also need a strict limit on number of attacks too. This would be simple- as a base you get your BaB number, plus one. Anything that can add extra attacks and is supposed to must say so specifically , like Haste, TWF. Things that add to option but not numbers of attacks like Vestigial arms would not have the disclaimer "This can add +1 to your max number of attacks".
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Yeah, good point Laz.
But there is a middle road.
Things like "running a scene involving stealth and cover" are presented in the CRB as "steath rules here, here and here, cover rules here and here, good luck." I mean really, one opposed roll is all we're supposed to get out of sneaking in to the enemy castle? Repeat for every monster? What about spillover encounters? Didn't Shadowrun handle this issue in the 80's? COME ON.
It would be nice to have a book that was kind of an extended GM screen, that included helpful procedures that the GM can choose from. Putting all the information in the same place, and definitely where there are "missing mechanics" like chase scenes (which Paizo has tackled) and social encounters (which they have not to my knowledge).
Some other games I've looked at have extensive treatments for this kind of thing. What if you want combat to feel like the end of ridley scott's The Duelists rather than the normal crush to melee combat? Are you really going to rely on the Intimidate mechanic to portray the interrogation scene you imagine inspired by Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four?
This would be a good place to give other scenes a Combat-chapter-like treatment. A good way to make these cinematic sequences a part of the game again. The single-minded design focus on combat has stomped all over these other parts of the game.
Such a treatment of the rest of the game would be — by definition — a chance to shore up the skill component which has languished terribly. If there are frameworks to use these skills that are as relevant to the adventure as combat is, some of the skill classes get a nice, needed boost.
So my rejoinder to your very good point, Laz, is that if the book is comprehensive, awesome, and contains new and exciting ways of running things, then GMs relying on said book is a great thing. That's what we want. And really, anything is better than this "building a futon with no instructions" approach the CRB takes (and the GMG fails to sufficiently alleviate, even though it is a good book).
The game needs GMs. The publisher should make their life as easy as possible.
The game needs GMs. The publisher should make their life as easy as possible.
Hmm... is there anything inherent to such a guide which a third-party publisher would be unable to include? It sounds like this sort of project is far from Golarion-specific.
-Matt