I was replaying the Approach to Thistletop scenario recently with a different group than my normal group. In my normal group, we decided that the wording, "The difficulty to defeat monsters with the goblin trait is increased by 1d4" to mean, that in each combat with a goblin foe, you roll a 1d4 to see how much the check is increased by.
The second group interpreted it as, at the beginning of the scenario roll 1d4 and increase the difficulty of all goblin monsters by that amount.
So, my question is, how do you guys play it? I'm not sure I'd say either interpretation is "wrong" but I'm sure the designers had only one of them in mind...
Every time you start a new check dice are rolled. There was an answer from Mike on this subject in a former post too.
Roll every time. Officially you should probably roll before you start trying to pass the check.
We quite like rolling AFTER we've finished playing our cards and rolled our dice to give the Goblins a chance to spring a surprise :)
(Basically we treat it as you roll your dice and then subtract 1d4)
Yep. One thing I'm a little curious on though is exactly when the 1d4 roll is supposed to happen during the check.
For example on our last run of that adventure, I had a Sanctuary in my hand near the end. I would have *liked* to have used to to evade after knowing what the roll was - like if it's a 4, evade, and try again. But, since evading happens very early on in the combat, we decided that the 1d4 roll probably is supposed to happen after that, like during the assemble die phase or actually during the check itself somehow.
Anyway would be good to know, and probably best to specify timing on rolls such as those, as it definitely can matter.
Evading is not part of the combat (encounter), it happens before it. Unfortunately, you'd have to decide to evade without knowing the 1d4 roll here.Yep. One thing I'm a little curious on though is exactly when the 1d4 roll is supposed to happen during the check.
For example on our last run of that adventure, I had a Sanctuary in my hand near the end. I would have *liked* to have used to to evade after knowing what the roll was - like if it's a 4, evade, and try again. But, since evading happens very early on in the combat, we decided that the 1d4 roll probably is supposed to happen after that, like during the assemble die phase or actually during the check itself somehow.
Anyway would be good to know, and probably best to specify timing on rolls such as those, as it definitely can matter.
I'm aware of when evading happens during an encounter, however my point is that the exact time of the d4 roll is unspecified.
I'm aware of when evading happens during an encounter, however my point is that the exact time of the d4 roll is unspecified.Evading is not part of the combat (encounter), it happens before it. Unfortunately, you'd have to decide to evade without knowing the 1d4 roll here.Yep. One thing I'm a little curious on though is exactly when the 1d4 roll is supposed to happen during the check.
For example on our last run of that adventure, I had a Sanctuary in my hand near the end. I would have *liked* to have used to to evade after knowing what the roll was - like if it's a 4, evade, and try again. But, since evading happens very early on in the combat, we decided that the 1d4 roll probably is supposed to happen after that, like during the assemble die phase or actually during the check itself somehow.
Anyway would be good to know, and probably best to specify timing on rolls such as those, as it definitely can matter.
I would hazard a guess that it's as soon as you see it's a goblin going strictly by the card text. Doesn't seem like a problem to me that you roll the d4 and then decide whether to evade or not; it seems more of a set-up mechanic than Combat mechanic if you get my drift.
Rolling after, as mentioned above, does seem a bit more random and fun though :)
To be clear, the question referenced above that was posed in this thread to which Mike responded was whether to roll at the beginning of the scenario or when each Goblin is encountered. It was not whether to roll separately for each combat check.
For all cases where there is a rule to roll a die to increase the difficulty, I've been rolling 1 die for each encounter, not for each check. For example, in Approach to Thistletop:
If Valeros encounters a goblin during his first exploration, he rolls a 1d4 and gets a 2. The difficulty for that encounter with that goblin is increased by 2. Valeros defeats it.
Valeros explores again and encounters another goblin. He rolls a 1d4 and gets a 4. The difficulty for that encounter with that goblin is increased by 4.
On his next turn Valeros encounters Goblin Raid. Each character encountering a goblin rolls a 1d4 separately. Valeros goes first and rolls a 3. His Golin Raider henchmen's difficulty to defeat is increased by 3. Harsk rolls a 2. His Golin Raider henchmen's difficulty to defeat is increased by 2. Mersiel rolls a 4. Her Golin Raider henchmen's difficulty to defeat is increased by 4. She decides to evade.
On his next turn Valeros encounters Gogmurt. He rolls a 2 on the 1d4. The difficulty of both the checks to defeat Gogmurt are increased by 2.
Now to be fair, Mike is human and may have been meaning that you should roll for each check separately and not for each encounter separately. But for now, the instruction we've been given is to roll for each encounter, not for each check.
With that in mind, you roll when the card is encountered. So the sequence would be:
- Encounter Card
- Roll 1d4
- Evade (optional)
The second step of attempting a check is "Determine the difficulty." The rulebook gives an example of an effect that increases difficulty by a fixed amount, but it seems like the correct time to roll the d4.
I can't remember whether I rolled separately for each of Gogmurt's checks, although I can't think of any other situation where I would re-use a die roll that I made a couple of minutes earlier. The general principle seems to be to roll each time.
Yeah. And I can see the support for that. And I can see Mike commenting and saying that is what he meant and reminding us he reads an insane number of posts each day in addition to working on play testing Skull & Shackles and developing AP3 and having a personal life, so sometimes he doesn't notice the subtle nuances of the questions. And I won't argue with it if it is clarified to be that you should role during the determine the difficulty step after you've given up the right to evade.
But I could argue right now that the rolling of the 1d4 is a part of the encounter a card sequence (EACS) and happens as part of the "Apply any effects that happen before the encounter" with that effect being roll 1d4. Then during the attempting a check sequence (AACS) I have to do the math to determine what the difficulty is, so I add the result from my previous roll to the difficulty on the card to get the new result.
But either way we can all agree that rolling a 4 as a result for this effect is not fun no matter how many or how few time you do it; that encountering goblins in the the goblin fortress is even worse, and that no one should use those acronyms I just made up as they are confusing, not easy to pronounce, and would not help people unfamiliar with the game.
Chief Technical Officer
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The "Apply Any Effects That Happen Before The Encounter, If Needed" step applies to things that need to be done before the encounter. Approach to Thistletop does not tell you do anything "before the encounter".
Changes to the difficulty of a check are always applied during "Determine the Difficulty" action:
Some cards increase or decrease the difficulty of a check; for example, if a card says that the difficulty is increased by 2, add 2 to the number on the card you encountered; if it says that the difficulty is decreased by 2, subtract 2 from the number.
(And before anybody suggests that the actual die roll could maybe be made well before the result is applied, I'm guessing you wouldn't assume that's true of any *other* die roll....)
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Thanks Vic. So that would mean two things have been clarified:
1. You'd have to decide to evade or not before you knew the result of the 1d4 roll.
2. For Gogmurt (and potentially other Villains in scenarios with similar rules) you'd roll separately for each check as you came to that step in the "Attempt the Check" sequence. So the two checks would not necessarily have the same difficulty increase.
Thanks for the clarification, Vic.