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So, early in book two we are on the first uses of the mass combat rules. The PCs win and the army is defeated, hooray. Now, in Ultimate Campaign, it states when an opposing army is defeated, the winning army can make a Loyalty Check to increase its morale and/or gain a boon.
But, Loyalty checks are tied to kingdom building rules, which to my knowledge are not using in the book. I don't know what the Control DC is to make the Loyalty check against and so on. I haven't seen much asked about this on the forums, so I am inclined to believe we missed something somewhere in the book.
Or, are there just set points in the books where commanders will earn tactics and boons?
Creative Director
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Mass Combat isn't a big enough thing in the AP overall that earning boons is really all that important. If you want to incorporate the earning of boons into the AP, though (keeping in mind that there's no further use of mass combat in the AP after book 2 unless you add more in yourself), feel free to allow a check of your own to determine if a boon is gained.
Okidoke, was just making sure we weren't missing anything. Without knowledge of what was coming ahead, we may have assumed that mass combat was larger than we thought.
Thanks!
Just a question, James, are the downtime rules also only relevant in part three or do they come in later again? It seems like the PC's are moving on to the Abyss in books four and five, but there seems to be a window where they are back on the material plane in books five and/or six.
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Creative Director
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Just a question, James, are the downtime rules also only relevant in part three or do they come in later again? It seems like the PC's are moving on to the Abyss in books four and five, but there seems to be a window where they are back on the material plane in books five and/or six.
Downtime rules and options are mentioned in books 2 and 3 if I remember correctly, but they can remain a thing fr pretty much the entire AP if you wish. They're not the focus of any of the adventures, but there'll be plenty of chances between ALL of the adventures for downtime stuff to happen.
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I also read in Ultimate Campaign that if you don't have a kingdom there are ways to substitute other checks in place. So instead of a Loyalty check, you make a will save. The Kingdom Control DC would instead be substituted with the Average Party's Level CR Primary Ability DC (found in the Bestiary on page 291 or here).
Hope that helps!
Just a question, James, are the downtime rules also only relevant in part three or do they come in later again? It seems like the PC's are moving on to the Abyss in books four and five, but there seems to be a window where they are back on the material plane in books five and/or six.Downtime rules and options are mentioned in books 2 and 3 if I remember correctly, but they can remain a thing fr pretty much the entire AP if you wish. They're not the focus of any of the adventures, but there'll be plenty of chances between ALL of the adventures for downtime stuff to happen.
Thanks for the info, James! :)
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You can technically already do that, as the downtime rules allow for training of people as well as building buildings.
The time/cost to train a set of 5 Laborers is:
Create 1 Influence, 2 Labor (70 gp); Time 0 days; Size 5 people
Laborers upgrade to Guards
Create 2 Goods, 3 Labor (100 gp); Time 1 day Size 5 people
Guards upgrade to soldiers
Create 3 Goods, 2 Influence, 5 Labor (220 gp); Time 2 days; Size 5 people
Soliders upgrade to Elite Soldiers (we'll call them lvl 3 fighters instead of warriors)
Create 5 Goods, 3 Influence, 7 Labor (330 gp); Time 5 days; Size 5 people
So, a 5 person training budget looks like 7 days, for 6 Influence, 10 Goods, and 17 Labor.
If you can afford the expenditure to do it at an x20 rate, you can have a new, level 3 fighter army trained in 7 days. For 120 Influence, 200 Goods, and 340 Labor.
Alternately, add up the costs and that 5 man hiring looks like 720gp to hire them already trained. 14,400 gp to just outright buy a level 3 medium army of fighters.
Mass Combat isn't a big enough thing in the AP overall that earning boons is really all that important. If you want to incorporate the earning of boons into the AP, though (keeping in mind that there's no further use of mass combat in the AP after book 2 unless you add more in yourself), feel free to allow a check of your own to determine if a boon is gained.
Or, since its a small role in this adventure,if your players are new to mass combat you could just award a boon for every victory. This would allow the players to get more familiar with mass combat and get to experience more familiar with mass combat. bonus tactics would be a good freebee to get used to more tactics.
This will be my first mass combat run since our kingmaker campaign ended before mass combat. I plan on judging the players reactions to mass combat and if they seem to like it i will add more mass combat and maybe adding some to the other books. The mongrel men can easily tire of underground life and reinforce drezen once recaptured, maybe even as a way to regain there heritage and prove themselves. The retaking of Drezen by mythic heroes might rally enough and boost moral to cause others to rush to the defense of drezen and join the fifth crusade.
Since the players dont have a kingdom, and hence BP to support an army, they could just attract enough followers for free. They are blessed by iomadae after all. Example, give the players 1BP per mythic tier per week for army upkeep. This could easily be explained as solders working for free because of there fame, donations from Churches, donations from Mendev or other countries- just to name a few. I plan on using the players old Kingmaker Kingdom as a sponsor. This will be really cool to make them see how they have effected Golarion and admire there adventures in Golarion thus far.