it says you can deflect 1 melee weapon attack per round I think the fact that it is incorporeal is irrelevant because its a touch attack not a weapon attack. idk just my opinion
well I would look into incorporeal more because it seems RAW from what you have so far you could deflect it it clearly calls out touch attacks. you might just want to go with what your GM says on this though I have been a GM a long time and if you had ghost touch amulet of mighty fists I'd probably go with it and allow it. If not I'm pretty much right there with your GM on this one. However rules as written from the faq you posted you are correct unless theres something else we aren't seeing. The golden rule is what the GM says goes. keep in mind this guy puts in a lot of time and effort creating enjoyable experiences for your group.
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Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions.
This is the closest thing I can find. that doesn't outright state it. Just think about it in reverse say you tried to punch the shadow and the gm had him deflect the attack with crane wing deflect what would your response be to that reading the above statement about incorporeal creatures. Keep in mind Crane wing Requires you to have 1 hand free and I'm assuming here but I think that is so you can use that free hand to divert attacks, not use it to press two fingers against the side of your head and use MIND POWERS to divert the course of its attack. IDK do what works for your group I think this states it pretty well thou.
Hmmm... the thing about a ghouls claw is that natural weapon is still a melee weapon... just not a manufactured one. The same is true generally for touch attack spells.. they act like weapons and can benefit from crits and lots of things that modify weapon attacks (hence the term "weapon-like spell")
Per RAW you can deflect any melee weapon attack... so those first two cases (a nat weapon or a touch spell) both can be deflected because they both qualify as melee weapons.
The key text might be here from the incorporeal entry: " they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions."
Now the obvious implications of this line apply to bull rush, grapple drag reposition etc.
But this also means that you couldn't disarm an incorporeal creature because you can't "move or manipulate ... its equipment". I would conclude that deflecting an attack from a melee weapon would be considered manipulating its melee weapon.
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Hey folks,
Recently, in a session, we ran into a situation where my Monk with Crane Wing was fighting a couple of Shadows. We're unsure whether or not Crane Wing would affect an incorporeal touch attack. My Monk's unarmed strikes DO count as magical(using an amulet of mighty fists), which can affect incorporeal creatures, albeit at half damage. However, the fists aren't ghost touch, so they don't fully affect incorporeal creatures.
So, my question is, can a Monk whose fists count as magic deflect incorporeal touch attacks?
Yes, they count for deflecting. Also, deflections count as neither a miss or hit, and if deflected, they do not suffer any ill effect that would have transferred through the hit. As far as I know and remember.
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RAW it works, due to the incorporeal touch attack being a "weapon" of sorts. However, as a GM, I might rule that you need a ghost touch AoMF or Ghost Touch Armor/Bracers that cover your wrists to deflect, or the attack just touches your arm and applies. But RAW it works. If your GM is cool with it, then great.
RAW full deflect. Cranewing is pretty all encompassing if its a melee attack. That said I think your ruling is much better.
By RAW you can deflect any melee attack, even melee touch attacks or natural attacks etc, that should not really be questioned as it is fine as it is.
incorporeal is a different matter.. incorporeal explicitly states that there can be no physical interaction, it is physically impossible (without ghostT or similar) to deflect it. As a GM i would rule as such, you try to deflect it, you fail.. nothing else really makes sense unless you have ghost touch (or are incorporeal yourself i guess).
RAW, I think it probably works.
As a GM it wouldn't work unless you had ghost touch or an equivalent effect.
By RAW you can deflect any melee attack, even melee touch attacks or natural attacks etc, that should not really be questioned as it is fine as it is.
incorporeal is a different matter.. incorporeal explicitly states that there can be no physical interaction, it is physically impossible (without ghostT or similar) to deflect it. As a GM i would rule as such, you try to deflect it, you fail.. nothing else really makes sense unless you have ghost touch (or are incorporeal yourself i guess).
I have to agree. If Crane Wing said "dodge" that would be one thing, but it says "Deflect" which implies interaction or physical contact of some sort.
Since you cannot, by rule, effect an incorporeal's weapons or body without ghost touch, you probably can't deflect an incorporeal's attack.
Snake Style would work here with no problem, for example, but a Duelist's Parry ability? No.
On the same token, you could never use Snatch Arrows to catch an incorporeal arrow or deflect arrows to deflect one.
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it says it deflects the attack, deflection bonuses to AC apply to incorporeal attacks. While it isn't a deflection bonus, it fits thematically.
An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it.
By RAW you can deflect any melee attack, even melee touch attacks or natural attacks etc, that should not really be questioned as it is fine as it is.
incorporeal is a different matter.. incorporeal explicitly states that there can be no physical interaction, it is physically impossible (without ghostT or similar) to deflect it. As a GM i would rule as such, you try to deflect it, you fail.. nothing else really makes sense unless you have ghost touch (or are incorporeal yourself i guess).
I have to agree. If Crane Wing said "dodge" that would be one thing, but it says "Deflect" which implies interaction or physical contact of some sort.
Since you cannot, by rule, effect an incorporeal's weapons or body without ghost touch, you probably can't deflect an incorporeal's attack.
Snake Style would work here with no problem, for example, but a Duelist's Parry ability? No.
On the same token, you could never use Snatch Arrows to catch an incorporeal arrow or deflect arrows to deflect one.
If a magic attack can cause hit point damage I would say it can deflect the attack of an incorporeal monster.
A magic attack somehow connects with them to deal damage.However I can see where you're coming from on this. Maybe half the damage (obviously a house rule type thing) and ghost touch would fully deflect...?
DM call me thinks despite the RAW intent!
Steady pace = more fun
I say go with the RAW unless it breaks the game. Not all feats have a perfect explanation for why the work the way they do. No doubt there are feats and abilities that you have that don't do things that you think they should do. For instance, you can be immune to cold damage and, nonetheless, take damage from cold weather.
Take the good with the bad for the sake of the speed of the game. Slowing the game down to make a new houserule every other encounter and then remembering the house rule from game to game and then explaining all of your house rules to new players just slows down the fun of the game.
Just for complete understanding, cold weather damage is cold elemental damage. If you had Resist Cold 6 you would never take cold evironmental damage.
If a magic attack can cause hit point damage I would say it can deflect the attack of an incorporeal monster.
A magic attack somehow connects with them to deal damage.However I can see where you're coming from on this. Maybe half the damage (obviously a house rule type thing) and ghost touch would fully deflect...?
DM call me thinks despite the RAW intent!
not sure i agree (although not entirely RAW). A ghost touch ability would allow crane wing to fully deflect the incorporeal attack, it never passes through the body. i would have to rule that a magic weapon, whilst still able to partially effect an incorporeal creature, the creatures attack would only partially be blocked, and i would personally rule that if the energy draining touch attack were to hit you at all it would do full damage.
but thats my preference;
for clarity, i think that the ghost touch working on the incorporeal attack is not RAW but should be considered doable by anyone with any sense :p the crane wing not working at all otherwise IS RAW imo as it says 'defect any melee attack' which is overrules by the incorporeal type which says cannot be interacted with.. simples
Steady pace = more fun
I say go with the RAW unless it breaks the game. Not all feats have a perfect explanation for why the work the way they do. No doubt there are feats and abilities that you have that don't do things that you think they should do. For instance, you can be immune to cold damage and, nonetheless, take damage from cold weather.
Take the good with the bad for the sake of the speed of the game. Slowing the game down to make a new houserule every other encounter and then remembering the house rule from game to game and then explaining all of your house rules to new players just slows down the fun of the game.
not entirely sure which rule you are using from this. if you have immunity to cold damage you never take damage from cold unless there is some additional funk attached to it (like flamestrike has for fire/sacred damage)
further you never take any ill effects from something with the cold type (like the witches ice based hexes) or from cold weather (unless you are talking massive hail, in which case that is not cold damage but physical damage).
you wouldnt for example be fatigued for sleeping in cold weather where the DM rules that the party has been kept awake etc. if you just had cold resistance 5 then you would likely not be fatigued unless the cold was bad enough to do more than 5 points of damage as well.
also crane wing not being able to deflect incorporeal pretty much is RAW, no house rules needed.