I don't think there is any reason to spend Ki on grab attempts TBH. For the most part you are better off just making the grapple attempt. It depends though... you can get some extra damage by making an attack and using grab, but this is conditional, and later in levels I would save it for locking people in. This makes you the ultimate caster-killer and since there is no size limit on grapple, you can shut down a lot of big solo monsters.
Of course you need a fly speed for some monsters, but you can still pin a flying creature.... and if you look at the big flyers they generally dont have amazing fly checks. Grapple a flying creature and it can't move, which forces it to make Hover Checks every round with -4 dex. Adult dragons will lose height on a roll of 5 or less.
Pin that creature and it cannot fly which means that it plummets to the ground and you both take fall damage. There aren't a lot of ways to immobilize and ground a flying creature, so this is a cool ability.
You can also forgo the Monk's robes to get the wonderfully effective Robe of Infinite Twine, which you can use to always have rope for the Tie Up option in grapple. For my example Tetori, the DC to break out of that rope would be a DC 66, and there is a clause that says if the creature needs a Nat. 20, then they just can't break free. So anything with a CMB of 45 or less would be stuck.
I don't think there is any reason to spend Ki on grab attempts TBH. For the most part you are better off just making the grapple attempt. It depends though... you can get some extra damage by making an attack and using grab, but this is conditional, and later in levels I would save it for locking people in. This makes you the ultimate caster-killer and since there is no size limit on grapple, you can shut down a lot of big solo monsters.
Of course you need a fly speed for some monsters, but you can still pin a flying creature.... and if you look at the big flyers they generally dont have amazing fly checks. Grapple a flying creature and it can't move, which forces it to make Hover Checks every round with -4 dex. Adult dragons will lose height on a roll of 5 or less.
Pin that creature and it cannot fly which means that it plummets to the ground and you both take fall damage. There aren't a lot of ways to immobilize and ground a flying creature, so this is a cool ability.
You can also forgo the Monk's robes to get the wonderfully effective Robe of Infinite Twine, which you can use to always have rope for the Tie Up option in grapple. For my example Tetori, the DC to break out of that rope would be a DC 66, and there is a clause that says if the creature needs a Nat. 20, then they just can't break free. So anything with a CMB of 45 or less would be stuck.
Those are some pretty fair points Lord_Malkov. Those are pretty cool tricks indeed. Out of curiosity, doesn't being in a grapple all of the time mean that you are handled as long as your opponent is?
On a side note, Tetori monks make me appreciate barbarians a lot more. O.o
I'm not say El Fuerte is a Tetori... He's more of an Damage/Trip Monk with Improved Grapple. (And he flavors some trip attempts as grapples, but truly, they are trip attacks).
Zangief is a Tetori, though. THE Tetori. Except he has full BAB. :D
How's about Abel? He does a lot of grab-assin'. :P
I planned on introducing two Zangief-like monk henchmen to fight the PCs in a game I'm running. I stopped when I realized that with the average strength of the party being 10 and 75% of them being full casters with average casting stats they would actually mop the floor with them really fast. I think I'll introduce just one so that they'll survive.
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Someone just said that the monk was a better support than the wizard, so I stated what a wizard can do that a monk cannot. Haste in particular is amazing.
until you realise that haste gives you only a slight bonos to ac, ref, and a single extra attack in a full attack action. this doesnt benefit casters at all as they dont perform full attack actions. while on the other hand every player in your group will net 3 aditional standards on top of their normal alotment of actions. casters can then shoot 3 charges off a wand in that time and still cast their spell/spells for the turn. fighters dont need to full attack to gain the 3 aditional standard actions so while you net 1 attack at full bab, i would net that fighter 3 attacks at full bab, which can be used in conjunction with vital strike if they chose to use that feat. all for the very low low cost of one ki point? yes next round i would need to burn 6 more, but as i said before as a drunken master you can "refill you ki pool" when you have nothing better to do.
so slow time>haste
not to mention that same monk can teleport the group, and give very very powerful dpr boosting and defensive buffs on top of that.
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So... that was a Tetori
Now we need a build for a Monk that is a little bit more classic. Lets use Bruce Lee as our concept here. What does he do? Well he can definitely counterattack his enemies. He is fast, definitely can't sacrifice flurry for an archtype. He also has to have a good set of defenses for all those great blocks. This is a skirmish, controller, trip build... not made for high damage.
So, same rules: lvl 12, 20pt buy, standard WBL, no weapons
lvl 12 Martial Artist Monk (I just don't see bruce lee as a mystic, just a warrior-philosopher)
Str:16 (+2 belt, +1 12th)
Dex:22 (+2 racial, +1 4th, +1 8th, , +2 belt)
Con:14 (+2 belt)
Int:10
Wis:18 (+4 headband)
Cha:10
Feats:
H:Weapon Finesse
1:IUS*, Stunning Fist*, Combat Reflexes**,Panther Style
2 Dodge**
3 Weapon Focus(Unarmed)
4
5 Panther Claw
6 Improved Trip**
7 Panther Parry
8
9 Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
10 Mobility**
11 Vicious Stomp
12: Spring Attack**
(* Class Feature, ** Bonus Feat)
Items:
Belt: +2 Physical Perfection
Headband: +4 wisdom
Hands: Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (Trip)
Body: Monk's Robe
Wrists: Bracers of Armor +4
Ring: Ring of Protection +2
Neck: AoMF +2
Feet: Boots of springing/striding
Combat:
AC: 31
Flurry: +20/+20/+15/+15/+10
IUS Damage: 2d8+5
Trip CMB: +24
So the general concept here is to use Panther Style to its maximum whenever possible, tripping along the way with retaliatory strikes and further provoking with vicious stomp. The best case scenario here would be 4 panther retaliations + 4 aoos from stomp + an attack at the end of movement.
This can match your flurry, but more importantly, you are hampering lots of enemies, sucking up AoOs to help allies move around, and getting your attacks at full BAB. This is a more mobile character.
Your AC against an AoO is pretty high. It starts at 35. If you trip successfully they are taking a -4 on attack rolls as well.
This is how a "tank" monk needs to operate. They need to find ways to occupy or disable multiple enemies. Trip is a good way to do this, and panther style lets you do it across a fairly large area.
Those are some pretty fair points Lord_Malkov. Those are pretty cool tricks indeed. Out of curiosity, doesn't being in a grapple all of the time mean that you are handled as long as your opponent is?I don't think there is any reason to spend Ki on grab attempts TBH. For the most part you are better off just making the grapple attempt. It depends though... you can get some extra damage by making an attack and using grab, but this is conditional, and later in levels I would save it for locking people in. This makes you the ultimate caster-killer and since there is no size limit on grapple, you can shut down a lot of big solo monsters.
Of course you need a fly speed for some monsters, but you can still pin a flying creature.... and if you look at the big flyers they generally dont have amazing fly checks. Grapple a flying creature and it can't move, which forces it to make Hover Checks every round with -4 dex. Adult dragons will lose height on a roll of 5 or less.
Pin that creature and it cannot fly which means that it plummets to the ground and you both take fall damage. There aren't a lot of ways to immobilize and ground a flying creature, so this is a cool ability.
You can also forgo the Monk's robes to get the wonderfully effective Robe of Infinite Twine, which you can use to always have rope for the Tie Up option in grapple. For my example Tetori, the DC to break out of that rope would be a DC 66, and there is a clause that says if the creature needs a Nat. 20, then they just can't break free. So anything with a CMB of 45 or less would be stuck.
Not if you are a Tetori. "At 4th level, he suffers no penalties on attack rolls, can make attacks of opportunity while grappling, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC when pinning an opponent or when grappled."
So you can actually grapple multiple targets at the same time with no penalty. You can make AoOs. There are a few drawbacks to grappling I suppose, namely that you can't 5ft step. You can still move half speed with a grapple check (and this is just a move action with Greater Grapple).... but yes your mobility is definitely hampered.
Short of that, though, you can drop the grapple for free whenever you want.
How's about Abel? He does a lot of grab-assin'. :PI'm not say El Fuerte is a Tetori... He's more of an Damage/Trip Monk with Improved Grapple. (And he flavors some trip attempts as grapples, but truly, they are trip attacks).
Zangief is a Tetori, though. THE Tetori. Except he has full BAB. :D
He probably has a lot of Grapple-related feats, but Grappling s not his bread & butter like it is for Zangief, so I'1d say a grapple-focused Monk/Fighter, but not a Tetori.
Hakan and T.Hawk are Tetori.
Zangief is THE Tetori. And he has Snake Style, which he uses to boost his touch AC against projectiles and fireballs, such as Hadouken.
I didn't forget the +5 to maintain. It was worked into my numbers on the second round (CMBs were 2 points higher +5 for maintain bonus and -3 power attack)
But you have to remember that the +5 is only applicable in "subsequent rounds" so it doesn't apply to multiple grapple attempts in a grapple initiated on that turn. You have to wait a round (and for your opponent to get an escape attempt) before you get the +5 bonus.
Now... I agree that a barbarian is a better grappler. Keep in mind that I am still in the "The monk needs help" camp. I also brought up a very similar barb build earlier in this thread. But if we are asking "can a monk build that doesn't give up everything monk-ish (like a Zen Archer) contribute meaningfully and on a par with the other classes"
I think this tetori build can do just that.
It should also be noted that while the Barbarian will probably have a higher grapple CMB, the Monk will most likely have a higher grapple CMD. You forgot to mention that your CMD will drop when grappled or pinned... unless you are taking the Brutal Pugilist archtype... but I think invulnerable is still better. Actually the scariest build is when you dip 4 levels into martial artist monk to get fatigue immune and then rage cycle with Strength Surge and Bolstered Resilience... but that is ultra cheesy and neither I nor any of my GMs allows that sort of rage cycling. (note, you cant use brawling armor and snakeskin tunic at the same time so lose 2 dex)
What it really comes down to is damage. A barbarian just deals more of it and gets more attacks with animal fury. If you wanted to pump CMB even more you can take Reckless Abandon in addition to Hive Totem Resilience.
Still, I think I stepped up to the challenge presented. Make a useful Monk. This monk attacks with built in crowd control and can deal over 100 damage per round. Not bad. Not a Barb but not bad.
On a related note, I still think its ridiculous that they restricted Brawling to light armor only... its just another slap in the Monk's face IMO.
Actually.. if you think about it, the Monk can be better situationally.
Obviously he is better against teleporters, incorporeal creatures etc.
But Pinning Knockout shouldnt be overlooked either.
Anything that can take non-lethal damage (which is most things that aren't undead or constructs) takes double damage when pinned if you choose to deal non-lethal.
So that means on round 2 you get
4d8+28 non-lethal and 1d6+8 lethal (plus bleed)
with all three an average of 138 Non-lethal and 46.5 lethal
at 15 (assuming the same stats and items) this will be:
4d10+32 non-lethal and 2d10+16 lethal
So at 15th level the monks 2nd round can be:
12d10+96 non-lethal and 6d10+48 lethal (constrict) with 2d10 bleed
That is an average of 162 non-lethal damage and 92 lethal damage.
So there you go... against living targets the monk can effectively outpace the barbarian's damage.
Looks like you can have a different type of brawler now. Someone want to make an armored monk with brawling and gloves of dueling and see how it stacks up?
Like I said, the best way to improve the Monk is making it look nothing like a Monk.
I think that the only Monk archetypes that step into "that is not a monk" territory are Zen Archer and Sohei.
Weapon Adept, on the other hand, would be better as a Prestige Class, IMO.
Depends. What's a monk?
Why do you feel that Qinggong, the archetype that stacks with every other monk archetype and any new archetype that is created in the future, not a monk?
Is it different than a barbarian selecting APG rage powers for pounce?
Personally I feel that Qinggong is a customization option for monks rather than a "you not a monk anymore if you take it," but that's just me.
Depends. What's a monk?
Why do you feel that Qinggong, the archetype that stacks with every other monk archetype and any new archetype that is created in the future, not a monk?
Is it different than a barbarian selecting APG rage powers for pounce?
Personally I feel that Qinggong is a customization option for monks rather than a "you not a monk anymore if you take it," but that's just me.
I have nothing against Qinggong. But Sohei and Zen archer don't look anything like Monks, IMHO. And Sensei feels more like a Bard than a Monk.
I have nothing against Qinggong. Sohei and Zen archer, though don't feel anything like Monks, IMHO. And Sensei feels more like a Bard than a Monk.Depends. What's a monk?
Why do you feel that Qinggong, the archetype that stacks with every other monk archetype and any new archetype that is created in the future, not a monk?
Is it different than a barbarian selecting APG rage powers for pounce?
Personally I feel that Qinggong is a customization option for monks rather than a "you not a monk anymore if you take it," but that's just me.
I can respect that. Which leads to my next question:
What are the core mechanics that makes monk a monk?
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I can respect that. Which leads to my next question:
What are the core mechanics that makes monk a monk?
Not sure about specific mechanics, but for me, a Monk is the guy who uses no armor and fights either unarmed or with classic Monk weapons, like sai, nunchucks, bo staff, etc. maybe improvised weapons too. He has some sort of quasi-mystical ability that allows him to do fantastic stuff and is really good at tripping, grappling and disarming. He is fast and agile, but not necessarily very strong.
Problem is... To make an effective Monk, you end up removing many, if not most, of these characteristics.
You focus on Str, you use 2-handed Temple Swords or longbows instead of fists or nunchucks, you use light armor, you cast spells, you rely on very specific gear.
None of those things makes the character feel like a Monk.
I can respect that. Which leads to my next question:
What are the core mechanics that makes monk a monk?
Not sure about specific mechanics, but for me, a Monk is the guy who uses no armor and fights either unarmed or with classic Monk weapons, like sai, nunchucks, bo staff, etc. maybe improvised weapons too. He has some sort of quasi-mystical ability that allows him to do fantastic stuff and is really good at tripping, grappling and disarming. He is fast and agile, but not necessarily very strong.
Problem is... To make an effective Monk, you end up removing many, if not most, of these characteristics.
So to sum up:
Benefits with no armor.
Bonuses to Unarmed/Classic Monk Weapons (Eastern Weapons and temple sword omitted).
Spell like abilities.
Fast movement.
Bonus to combat maneuvers.
Extra benefit with dex (normal monk doesn't provide this)
Does that sound right to you?
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Well, I've had people decry that these characters were "not monks" in another monk thread where we were optimizing monks to be highly functional. The first was core, and the second was anything goes.
Non-core multiclass monk prime.
Boy, oh boy, did people rage. And they wailed for forty days and forty nights. And the sky fell down. And hell froze over. And it was good.
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I have to agree with Lemmy to an extent
(Lemmy is God after all according to Airheads =P)
A Monk, to me, is a martial artist in the classic Kung Fu Movie style. Now they will use weapons from time to time. Drunken Master saw a lot of improvised weapons. Bruce Lee had some iconic nun-chuck scenes. etc.
But the overall feel off this sort of martial artist is an unarmored, quick, accurate, melee combatant with great reflexes and defenses.
I think that something like Flurry of Blows fits this really well... ultra quick hits. I also think that the low damage of a monk's hits fit as well actually. I do NOT think that their lack of accuracy makes any sense whatsoever. Frankly, they get fighter BAB for flurries and for CMB. It makes no sense to me that they shouldn't have this on regular attacks or for feat prerequisites.
SO, since this thread is about monks needed help. Lets fix the class!
Step 1: BAB
Monks get full fighter BAB. No special exceptions. This removes Maneuver Training.
Step 2: Fix Flurry
At 3rd level and at 8th level the monk can reduce his flurry penalties by 1, so at level 8 the monk no longer suffers penalties to attacks made as part of a flurry.
Step 3: Mobility
New abilities
Fluid Movements(Ex): At level 7 a Monk can make one additional 5ft. step in any round during which he or she makes a flurry of blows.
Improved Fluid Movements(Ex): At level 13 a monk can make a 5ft step in between each attack made as part of a flurry of blows up to a number of times equal to his Wisdom modifier.
Step 4: Maneuvers
A monk needs to be king of something, so lets make it maneuvers.
Add the Greater version of each maneuver feat to the Monk's bonus feats at level 6 and the 'Strike' versions at level 10. No more Combat Expertise feat tax.
Step 5: Ki Pool
Too long have monks had to rely on overpriced AoMFs to compete when they shouldn't have to. A paladin gets a divine bond, now a Monk should get something cool too. Remove the constant Ki Pool effects and replace with this:
Ki Pool: At 4th level, a monk gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats or enhance his unarmed strikes. The number of points in a monk's ki pool is equal to 1/2 his monk level + his Wisdom modifier.
At 4th level, a monk can expend 1 point from his Ki pool as a swift action to grant his unarmed strikes a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 4th, his unarmed strikes gain another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. These bonuses stack with any existing enhancement bonus to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 8th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: impact, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, ghost touch, shock, shocking burst, speed, or axiomatic.
In addition, by spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can do one of the following:
- Make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack, or
- Increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round, or
- Give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
There you go... that is my fix
Is it safe to say using archetypes or other classes makes the monk not a monk?Absolutely not! A monk with an archetype is still a monk, just like a Tattooed Sorcerer is still a Sorcerer.
Not the best comparison I don't think. A tattooed sorcerer still has bloodline arcana and the full arcane spell list. Just like an Invulnerable Barbarian still has all his rage and rage powers. There isn't anything iconic, thematic, or part of the core that's really lost. On the other hand, a monk with Zen Archer or Sohei is radically different and plays entirely different than a core monk. Also, both those classes do just fine without archetypes. Monk Archetypes are more like Bard archetypes imo, where they commonly swap out versatile performance or bardic performance which also radically changes how they play and what they do.
In that it was once a monk? Yes. In that it does what a monk does? No.
Is it safe to say using archetypes or other classes makes the monk not a monk?Absolutely not! A monk with an archetype is still a monk, just like a Tattooed Sorcerer is still a Sorcerer.Not the best comparison I don't think. A tattooed sorcerer still has bloodline arcana and the full arcane spell list. Just like an Invulnerable Barbarian still has all his rage and rage powers. There isn't anything iconic, thematic, or part of the core that's really lost. On the other hand, a monk with Zen Archer or Sohei is radically different and plays entirely different than a core monk. Also, both those classes do just fine without archetypes. Monk Archetypes are more like Bard archetypes imo, where they commonly swap out versatile performance or bardic performance which also radically changes how they play and what they do.
In that it was once a monk? Yes. In that it does what a monk does? No.
Same question I pose to you that I posed to Lemmy then.
What are essential core mechanics that makes a monk a monk? If I replace Slowfall with Barkskin, am I suddenly "not a monk?"
I'm not trying being obtuse with the question here. I genuinely feel that we cannot move forward in these build discussions until we know what makes a monk a monk to you. Someone (Ashiel) can make an armored core monk. Is he not a monk because he's not making use of all his abilities?
Someone can make a tetori monk that focuses on grappling but gives up flurry of blows. Is that a monk?
Someone can make a core monk that uses a two hand temple sword. Is he not a monk because he's using a weapon?
What mechanics does a build have to use in order for you to consider a build to be a monk?
What are essential core mechanics that makes a monk a monk? If I replace Slowfall with Barkskin, am I suddenly "not a monk?"
If I had to pick? I'd say its a little weird to pin down because some class features aren't replaced but the characters focus has changed. Zen archer doesn't replace Ki, unarmored, or flurry of blows, but it does change flurry of blows and has a different focus. Martial Artist replaces nearly every monk feature, but still retains shirtless face punching goodness, but he's also missing darn near every feature, even ki which I don't like personally but could be someone else's ideal for a monk. My own ideal monk wears armor and can still flurry to be honest, but that doesn't add anything to the conversation or discuss why people don't like the monk. As is, my favorite monk is probably an unarmed swordsage or a barbarian instead of a monk...
If I state what makes a monk a monk I'm also giving someone an excuse to hunt down anything that is a monk to say its a monk archetype, and I feel that misses the point that there are problems with core monk and that's why there are complaints. Not every monk can be a tetori or sensei or zen archer or sohei. There are good monk archetypes, and there are exploits for a monk. The thing is these things are serving as bandaids. Even if they work well, it sucks that the core idea is a bit lacking. No one ever stated their role for instance or why I'd want to have or play one.
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I think this thread is getting sidetracked by this weird discussion of what a monk is. Honestly, outside of pathfinder, a Monk to me is a chaste religious man who wears brown robes and chants a lot...
But here is the best definition that we can use. Because it is the definition in the CRB:
"For the truly exemplary, martial skill transcends the battlefield—it is a lifestyle, a doctrine, a state of mind. These warrior-artists search out methods of battle beyond swords and shields, finding weapons within themselves just as capable of crippling or killing as any blade. These monks (so called since they adhere to ancient philosophies and strict martial disciplines) elevate their bodies to become weapons of war, from battle-minded ascetics to self-taught brawlers. Monks tread the path of discipline, and those with the will to endure that path discover within themselves not what they are, but what they are meant to be."
Role: Monks excel at overcoming even the most daunting perils, striking where it's least expected, and taking advantage of enemy vulnerabilities. Fleet of foot and skilled in combat, monks can navigate any battlefield with ease, aiding allies wherever they are needed most.
So, yeah, the "beyond swords and shields" bit does tend toward an unarmed style. So does the fact that the CRB monk has no armor proficiency, loses benefits if he wears armor and has a major feature called "unarmed strikes". And the bit about their bodies being weapons.
Clearly mobility is called out here... (which is odd since they made monks fairly immobile in actual practice if they want to actually DO anything... yeah he can move fast, great... Pounce = Mobility. Notice how the "mobile fighter" isn't just stacking up land speed enhancements)
I actually built a homebrew setting at one point that was a steampunk dystopia where magic was banned. (it shows up in later levels, but very sparse) For that setting I had to modify a lot of classes to get rid of their spells and spell-like and even supernatural abilities. Here is what I did to the Monk. Let me know what you think: (excuse the typos and ordering errors)
THE PUGILIST
Fighter BAB
Strong Fort and Ref
4+int skill/level
1d10 hit die
Features
AC Bonus
At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, the pugilist gains a +1 dodge bonus to his armor class. This bonus only applies when the Pugilist is wearing light or no armor.
Improved Unarmed Strike
At first level, a Pugilist gains improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.
Fists Like Hammers
A pugilist has fists as hard bricks. At the levels indicated in Table: Pugilist, the pugilist’s damage with unarmed strikes or with pugilist weapons increases to the amount shown.
Pugilist Weapons
A pugilist’s weapons are his fists. He often enhances his arsenal, however, with various punching weapons. (Not all fights are bare-knuckle bouts after all) A pugilist can apply any effects that augment an unarmed strike to any pugilist weapon that he is wielding. This includes any style feats, weapon feats, and the pugilist’s Fists Like Hammers, Combination Punch, Stick and Move, and Quick Jabs abilities.
One-Two
The pugilist can deliver a rapid volley of punches. The pugilist gains Two Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. He loses this bonus feat if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Strong Jaw (Ex)
A pugilist’s jaw is like a lump of iron. Punching it is more likely to hurt an opponent’s hand than the pugilist. At 2nd level, a pugilist gains DR 5/- versus nonlethal damage and a +2 morale bonus on saving throws versus any effect that causes fatigue or exhaustion.
Bonus Feats
At 2nd level and every three levels thereafter, a Pugilist gains a bonus feat. These bonus feats must be combat feats.
Combination Punch (Ex)
The pugilist uses a variety of strikes to incapacitate his foes. At 3rd level the Pugilist can choose one of the following Combat Maneuvers. Once this choice is made it cannot be changed. At 7th and 13th level the Pugilist may choose one additional maneuver from the list.
Bull Rush
Dirty Trick
Disarm
Trip
Reposition
Sunder
Once per round when the Pugilist successfully hits the same opponent with two consecutive unarmed strikes, he may attempt a combat maneuver that he has chosen with Combination Punch against that opponent as a free action.
Special: If the Pugilist uses Combination Punch to attempt a Bull Rush maneuver, he cannot follow his opponent unless he spends a move action to do so.
Stick and Move (Ex)
Often unarmed and unarmored, a Pugilist learns to dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge to avoid his opponents attacks. At 3rd level any time the Pugilist fights defensively or uses the Combat Expertise feat, he can reduce the penalty to attack rolls by 1 and increase the bonus granted to AC by 1. At 9th and 15th level the bonus to armor class increases by 1 and the penalty is further reduced by 1 (minimum 0). The pugilist cannot use this ability if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Fisticuffs
The Pugilist’s training in the fine art of fisticuffs has advanced. Starting at 4th level, a Pugilist can take feats that have fighter as a prerequisite to augment his unarmed strikes, treating his pugilist level as his fighter level. The pugilist may also treat his Pugilist level as his monk level for the purposes of qualifying for any Style feats.
Challenge (Ex)
Starting at 4th level, once per day, a Pugilist can challenge a foe to fisticuffs. As a swift action, the Pugilist chooses one target within sight to challenge. The Pugilists’ melee attacks deal extra damage whenever the attacks are made against the target of his challenge. This extra damage is equal to the Pugilist’s level. In addition, if the target of the challenge attempts to attack a target other than the Pugilist he provokes an attack of opportunity from the pugilist. The pugilist must be within range to make this attack. The Pugilist can use this ability once per day at 4th level, plus one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 4th, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level. The challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious or until the combat ends.
Improved One-Two
At 6th level, a Pugilist gains Improved Two Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat. He loses this bonus feat if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Pugilist’s Taunt (Ex)
Starting at 6th level, a pugilist can use crude gestures and insults to taunt his enemies. Any time the pugilist makes an intimidate check to demoralize his foes, he can instead attempt to make them attack him in melee. The pugilist must determine whether or not he is attempting to taunt or demoralize before he makes his check. If he chooses to taunt, the DC for the intimidate check is increased by 5. If he is successful, his target must spend its next action either attacking the Pugilist with a readied melee weapon or moving toward the pugilist. If the target does not have a melee weapon, it must attempt to attack the pugilist with unarmed strikes. Affected targets will not move into a space that is intrinsically dangerous, such as a pit or wall of fire to get to the Pugilist. If a target affected by the Pugilist’s Taunt cannot either move toward the pugilist or attack him, it spends its action cursing at him.
Pugilists Taunt is a mind-affecting ability.
Improved Strong Jaw (Ex)
The Pugilists damage reduction versus nonlethal damage increases to 10 and he gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws versus any effect that causes stunning.
Improved Stick and Move (Ex)
Any time a Pugilist moves more than 5 ft. in a given round, he gains a +2 dodge bonus to his armor class until the beginning of his next turn. The pugilist cannot use this ability if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Footwork (Ex)
When Pugilist uses the full attack action he may take one additional 5 ft. step during that attack. This 5 ft. step must be made after the Pugilist’s first attack but before his last attack. The pugilist cannot use this ability if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Greater Challenge (Ex)
At 10th level, whenever a pugilist declares a challenge, his target must pay attention to the threat he poses. As long as the target is within the threatened area of the pugilist, it takes a –2 penalty to its AC from attacks made by anyone other than the pugilist.
Greater One-Two
At 11th level, a Pugilist gains Greater Two Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat. He loses this bonus feat if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Quick Jabs (Ex)
At 12th level when the Pugilist uses a standard attack action, he can choose to make two attacks at his highest base attack bonus with a -2 penalty to both attack rolls. The pugilist cannot use this ability if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Improved Combination Punching (Ex)
At 14th level, a pugilist can use his Combination Punch ability twice each round.
Greater Stick and Move (Ex)
Anytime the pugilist successfully hits with an unarmed strike, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to his armor class until the beginning of his next turn. This ability can be triggered any number of times each turn and its effects stack. The pugilist cannot use this ability if he is wearing anything other than light or no armor.
Meteor Punch (Su)
At 20th level the Pugilist’s Unarmed Strike has its critical multiplier increased by 1 and any critical hits with unarmed strikes are automatically confirmed. In addition, when the pugilist uses his combination punch ability he gains a +2 on the combat maneuver check and is considered to be one size category larger for determining who can be affected by his combat maneuvers.
I'm not trying to offend here but I've been watching this thread for a while and I want to know, who in this thread that is not Justin Rocket is arguing that the monk is reliable as written? ( barring serious min/maxing multiclassing and serious munchkining)