| Deviston |
Building a brawler for PFS and I was wondering if I could get some advice on my potential build. Keep in mind when reading this I am going for RP mostly, but I don't want to be too far behind in mechanics. So some very odd things you might see are there for a reason (Traits for example).
Reginald Beauxregard Brawnborn, 7' 3"
Str: 14 (+2 Human) = 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 7
Chr 14
Traits: Magical Talent (Dancing Lights), Affable
Class levels all Fighter (Brawler), F# (Fighter Feat), C# (Character Feat), H# (Human Feat)
H1: Improved Unarmed Strike
C1: Intimidating Prowess
F1: Enforcer
F2: Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
C3: Bleeding Attack
F4: Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)
C5: Bludgeoner
F6: Power Attack
C7: Skill Focus (Intimidate)
F8: Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
C9: Antagonize
F10: Hamatulatsu Strike
C11: (Open to suggestions)
F12: Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)
The RP (which motivates the mechanics) is this fellow is a son of a long line of nobility. Hence the Affable, nobility have to be good in social situations after all. He is a fairly bulky man and uses his physical perfection to pleasantly intimidate others. And as for the Dancing Lights... well, the somatic components for this specific cantrip requires flexing and posing. The verbal component is the line "...has been passed down in the Brawnborn family line for GENERATIONS!". Upon completing his pose and verbal component, tiny pink sparkles pop up around his body and face.
He will be using two gauntlets for combat once he gets Bludgeoner (one for the symmetry and the other with enchantments and what not) and until then uses a gauntlet and a gloved fist. He abhors killing and refuses to slay civilized humanoids, hence the focus on non-lethal.
| TGMaxMaxer |
If it's for PFS, Hamatulatsu Strike isn't legal.
Playing a pure fighter, you don't want a will save penalty at all, and you definitely don't want to trade a -2 to it for 13 int. Unless you plan on taking maneuvers (none in your build) Take the human and favored class bonus as skillpoints, and keep that +2 to will saves by making int and wis both 10.
Since he's human, and you are taking skill focus anyways as a feat, rearrange your feats a little and take the human alt that gets you a Skill focus at 1st and 8th. Use the other for perception or some such. It's a free feat with the build you have in mind.
Also, buy an Alchemical Silver(or mithril later) and Cold Iron Gauntlet, so you can bypass both damage types.
That crit range will hurt a lot in the end, along with the base damage die. Possibly pick up a couple Rogue levels, the +2 damage from Greater Weapon Spec vs the free intimidate on any strike that sneaks, and the addons from the Thug or the like, combined with rogue talents that would free up real feats could make it better in the end, while still doing the same or better damage.
| Deviston |
Didn't know that about Hamat. Thanks. The "Additional Resources" page is so wonky, sigh. It's hard to swap anything out at first due the theme. Swapping Skill Focus Intimidate for Intimidating Prowess is a small loss, but the feat theme is the point. I'm big, I'm burly, people fear my mountains of muscly might. The loss of one feat is no big deal IMO to keep the theme.
Good points on the gauntlets. TY.
I did the math and to be honest, the base damage doesn't really turn out to be much of a difference toward the end. It's less than 10 points per attack of a difference, so negligible IMO.
[Thug] Rogue might not be a terrible choice. And I could take Intimidating Prowess for my rogue talent. In the end however, I don't really see any reason to leave the Fighter line just to have a net -1 to BAB, the Frightening from Thug, and one SA 1d6.
Especially with Fighter 10 now open (no Hamat) and Character 11 open. I still have two feats to play with regardless of how you look at it.
Edit: Why does pure fighter make the difference in not wanting a penalty to will? And the character is more gullible than the average man and more intelligent than the average man. Hence the scores as they are.
Edit edit: For human favored class I was thinking of going the +1 to two maneuvers, bull rush and reposition. To hold my own in those manly shoving matches and all.
| XMorsX |
Check the build and discussion here for much info. Bear in mind that the final build is the one with Snake and Crane styles, not Boar. The final build will probably look like this:
Fighter 1st Weapon Finesse
Fighter 1st Two-Weapon Fighting
Monk 2nd Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 2nd Stunning Fist
Monk 2nd Snake Style
Monk 3rd Snake Fang
Monk 3rd Combat Reflexes
Fighter 4th Dodge
Fighter 5th Crane Style
Fighter 6th Crane Wing
Fighter 7th Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighter 8th Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
Fighter 9th Crane Riposte
Fighter 10th Greater Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
Fighter 11th Stand Still
Fighter 12th Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
| Deviston |
Uh, thanks Mors. That's a very nifty optimized build. However, I'm going more for the "RP" part of "RPG". The "G" is just a means to an end. That being said however, I don't want to be TOTALLY useless. Hence asking for some minor tweaking suggestions.
Edit: The intimidate and non-lethal focus is really a must. But thanks anyway.
| XMorsX |
Well, I tooked a quick glance and I saw an unarmed brawler. Still you can get ideas, like dipping monk for style feats. Here is an Unarmed brawler using Intimidation with Enforcer and the two mentioned styles. I modified the first build I posted so that it includes Enforcer, Power Attack and Intimidating Prowess. It is Str-based now but you still need high Dexterity. It is really a shame to go unarmed and leave Crane style out of your build.
Fighter 1st Enforcer
Fighter 1st Two-Weapon Fighting
Monk 2nd Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 2nd Stunning Fist
Monk 2nd Snake Style
Monk 3rd Snake Fang
Monk 3rd Combat Reflexes
Fighter 4th Dodge
Fighter 5th Crane Style
Fighter 6th Crane Wing
Fighter 7th Power Attack
Fighter 8th Intimidating Prowess
Fighter 9th Crane Riposte
Fighter 10th Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighter 11th Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
Fighter 12th Greater Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
EDIT: 7 Wis is a killer. You can justify 10 Wis even in a relatively unwise person. Here is a more balanced distribution:
STR 16(14+2) (+1 at 4, 12 lvls)
DEX 16 (+1 at 8 lvl)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10
| Deviston |
Well once again thank you. However the character is a brawler, like fist fighting using large punishing blows, not Jackie Chan type things. Two Weapon Fighting just seems like optimization in my eyes.
Once again, your suggestions are appreciated but not quite the feel I'm going for.
Edit: Balanced? It's all physical stuff and no mental! I feel like you are just looking at this from a combat perspective and no role play. I think perhaps this board wasn't the best place to ask my question...
| XMorsX |
Well once again thank you. However the character is a brawler, like fist fighting using large punishing blows, not Jackie Chan type things. Two Weapon Fighting just seems like optimization in my eyes.
Once again, your suggestions are appreciated but not quite the feel I'm going for.
I can see what you mean. Still, you should not neglect the mechanical benefit because of minor flavor inconveniences. Re-flavor the style feats. They don't have to be exotic kung-fu moves, every street-fighter uses martial techniques to overpower his opponent. Snake style could be something like Defensive stance from boxing and Snake Fang the retaliation that follows a missed punch. As he gains experience, he expands his repertoire of deadly punches, evades and retaliations, just like a true casual -and not exotic asian or whatever- unarmed fighter would.
TWF is a nice supplement for light weapons like unarmed strikes. Nothing "cheesy" or exploitable, it has significant drawbacks along the benefits it provides. I could make an argument that Antagonize is overpowered and that the use of it indicates way more min-maxing than the twf feat tree.
| XMorsX |
Edit: Balanced? It's all physical stuff and no mental! I feel like you are just looking at this from a combat perspective and no role play. I think perhaps this board wasn't the best place to ask my question...
It is true that all of my answers have optimization as a reference point (and they should; flavor is a matter of taste), but this is as long as it does not break the concept. With an array of 16, 16, 14, 10, 10, 10 I would argue that flavor-wise his physical prowess is far ahead from his mental one. However at the same time you do not completely gimp your character versus casters and willsave checks.
| Movin |
*shrug* its your build and you seem to be fully aware that it is sub-optimal. you want to parody an Anime character and that is what you are getting.
Just don't get too attached, as your one trick is going to get smacked down by quite a few creature types ( EX Plant, Zombie, Construct) and then they will kill you. You will have next to no defense from Swarms and spell casters.
If you desire to go down this path I would highly suggest your first investment be will save boosting magic items. Will save or useless spells (like the Level 1 spell color spray) will be your characters bane if you don't have the fortune of solidly rolling 15 or higher on a d20 when you need to.
From the CRB on the gauntlet:
This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes.
You do not need bludgeoner to deal nonlethal damage with a gauntlet, it is already considered an unarmed attack and that is an unarmed strikes normal damage type. You can just use it to hit for lethal as well.
IUS manages to avoid the AOO provoked from normal attacks with an unarmed strike so you still need that one.
For a replacement I would highly suggest Iron will, although Improved grapple would fit the character as well so that he might engulf foes and allies alike.
You will want to take ranks in the Heal skill so as to prevent the foes you strike from bleeding to death as bleed damage will do so unless prevented.
Or you could take ranks in UMD so as to cast Stabilize from a wand or something.
Cant think of much more without taking a chainsaw to your build, best of luck and hope you have fun with it.
| Deviston |
Mors you make a very valid point in regards to reflavoring. However, my concern on that topic is this: can I even do that in PFS? There was a book (can't remember) that allowed rules for the changing of a familiar into another creature as long as the stats stayed the same, it was essentially reflavoring, and I know that specific rule is banned. I was worried the DM would say "no you have to be asian-y if you are using these asian style feats". Under a normal DM I know that wouldn't be an issue, but PFS is so weird, so I wasn't sure.
Movin: wow thanks for all the suggestions! Heal was my plan for stopping my bleed effect so nice catch on that.
I wasn't sure about the gauntlet in that regards because it can be enchanted as a weapon so I thought perhaps it was to be treated like a regular weapon as far as non-lethal/lethal swapping goes. My plan was to use it for non-lethal with whatever enchantments I have on it. That's why I thought I needed Bludgeoner, to make it non-lethal.
Love the "engulf friend and foe alike" comment, nice :)
All great advice, and with the thing about reflavoring being brought up... I think I'm going to play with the build some more. Maybe Monk dipping isn't a terrible idea. However, I really think I'm going to keep my Wis low unless I can come up with some way to keep a +1 mod on Int and at least a +1 on Cha.