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By Jess Door's suggestion, we changed the range to "touch." Try that and see how quick everyone is to use it on everything!
Detect Magic should simply be folded into a Spellcraft check. Keeping it as a spell IMO is simply for nostalgia, and is essentially a "cantrip-tax".
When I have my bad guys place a damn expensive magical trap, they sure as hell pay the extra bucks to have it coated wit 1 inch of lead, for this exact reason.
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You don't need Trapfinding to find magical traps in Pathfinder, just to disarm them. Anybody with a high enough Perception can find the silly things.
Also, I would say that while detect magic can let you know the location, strength, and aura of a magical trap, it won't tell you exactly what sets it off or how to avoid it. It's like me telling you there's a secret door in the wall - you'd still have to actually search for the trigger mechanism.
Basically, you get information like this: "There is a moderate abjuration and evocation aura on the door ahead." That's the kind of info your get from detect magic. Useful but not overwhelmingly so. A dedicated trap finder still has something to do, and in fact still needs to use Perception to really figure out what sets off the trap.
I think the problem is caused by the unlimited casting of zero level spells that pathfinder went with. When there was a limit per day you didn't have spells that felt like spam.
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Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.
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When I have my bad guys place a damn expensive magical trap, they sure as hell pay the extra bucks to have it coated wit 1 inch of lead, for this exact reason.
Or Magic Aura, whichever suits your fancy.
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Everyone hates me, but everybody uses me.
the problem i have with Rogues, is the Same problem i have with monks
they are Archaic and Obsolete Class concepts built to limit and monopolize 2 specific gameplay styles
the monk only does one thing
try to limit and monopolize access to unarmed combat options in a way that is supposed be balanced against the monk, but either ends up with the monk being extremely overpowered, or extremely underpowered
the rogue does a similar thing
limit access to guerilla combat options and dirty fighting for other classes, typically, a rogue is a class tax to deal with traps, and their guerilla combat and dirty fighting, either sucks ditchwater, or is absurdly overpowered.
in my opinion, detect magic and other at will cantrips won't be a problem if we
drop the rogue from the system
drop the ninja from the system
drop the monk from the system
make their options more readily available to the current non-casting classes.
Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.
Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more useful
Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more useful
dispel magic is also a commonly available spell
according to most Wizard Defenders
scrolls of it are cheap
Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more useful
Oh I agree entirely, but i would rather have a more useful character 99 percent of the time when there aren't traps. Or have a more useful class that has full trapfinding. Another full BAB class or more casters is more useful than the skill monkey that isn't needed anymore.
If a party spends part of their wealth buying magic items that allow them to remove traps, or preparing trap removal spells, then they should be able to remove traps. I don't see that as a flaw in the system... quite the opposite, really.
Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more usefuldispel magic is also a commonly available spell
according to most Wizard Defenders
scrolls of it are cheap
And that's fine. But again, if I have someone that can already detect magical traps for me, them I'm going to use those scrolls on something more useful.
And as for a rogue being useless 99% of the time, I don't subscribe to that belief, having played a rogue to level 15 in Pathfinder.
Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more usefuldispel magic is also a commonly available spell
according to most Wizard Defenders
scrolls of it are cheap
And that's fine. But again, if I have someone that can already detect magical traps for me, them I'm going to use those scrolls on something more useful.
And as for a rogue being useless 99% of the time, I don't subscribe to that belief, having played a rogue to level 15 in Pathfinder.
Rogues are useless when compared to
Archaeologist or Sandman Bards
Crypt Breaker or Vivisectionist Alchemists
Urban or Trapper Rangers
all of whom, are viable rogue substitutes that provide better contributions in the other 99% of the game.
Edit; maybe useless is the wrong word, how about Drastically inferior?
according to most Wizard Defenders, you're playing the game wrong.
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It seemed like every time we went up to a floor, a door, a chest, a
set of armor or something that appeared to be a magical trap it was a mad dash to see if I, the bard, the wizard or the magus could Detect Magic on it first.
Meh. My assumption is that magical traps obscure their magical aura (or don't have enough of one) so that a simple detect magic doesn't see them any better than searching does. And a quick bit of searching doesn't really lead me to believe detect magic should find magic traps easily.
Meh. My assumption is that magical traps obscure their magical aura (or don't have enough of one) so that a simple detect magic doesn't see them any better than searching does. And a quick bit of searching doesn't really lead me to believe detect magic should find magic traps easily.
It seemed like every time we went up to a floor, a door, a chest, a
set of armor or something that appeared to be a magical trap it was a mad dash to see if I, the bard, the wizard or the magus could Detect Magic on it first.
my problem with this response
is to make the rogue feel useful, you have to effectively use DM Fiat to eliminate all viable options but the rogue.
my best friend for dealing with most traps, is the wand of mount, which creates a magical summoned horse, that due to being a conjuration, is willing to engage in dangers a normal horse would not.
such as willingly setting off traps, because it knows it isn't a true horse.
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Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more usefuldispel magic is also a commonly available spell
according to most Wizard Defenders
scrolls of it are cheap
And that's fine. But again, if I have someone that can already detect magical traps for me, them I'm going to use those scrolls on something more useful.
And as for a rogue being useless 99% of the time, I don't subscribe to that belief, having played a rogue to level 15 in Pathfinder.
Rogues are useless when compared to
Archaeologist or Sandman Bards
Crypt Breaker or Vivisectionist Alchemists
Urban or Trapper Rangers
all of whom, are viable rogue substitutes that provide better contributions in the other 99% of the game.
Edit; maybe useless is the wrong word, how about Drastically inferior?
It's possible to play a so-called inferior class and have as much fun or more than those superior ones.
No wrongbadfun.
Pretty much rogues are obsolete at this point. Detect magic + dispel can by pass many traps long enough to get past them. Also other classes have access to full trap-finder/disarming. So if you choose to play a rogue keep in mind all the sacrifices to power that you have to deal with the be the "utility" of the party has been made pointless due to more powerful classes standing on your toes.Personally, if I'm a wizard and I have someone in the party that can disable magic traps, I'd rather use my dispel magic spell on something more usefuldispel magic is also a commonly available spell
according to most Wizard Defenders
scrolls of it are cheap
And that's fine. But again, if I have someone that can already detect magical traps for me, them I'm going to use those scrolls on something more useful.
And as for a rogue being useless 99% of the time, I don't subscribe to that belief, having played a rogue to level 15 in Pathfinder.
Rogues are useless when compared to
Archaeologist or Sandman Bards
Crypt Breaker or Vivisectionist Alchemists
Urban or Trapper Rangers
all of whom, are viable rogue substitutes that provide better contributions in the other 99% of the game.
Edit; maybe useless is the wrong word, how about Drastically inferior?
It's possible to play a so-called inferior class and have as much fun or more than those superior ones.
No wrongbadfun.
unless you play along one of those superior classes and they outshine you in your niche, and one or two others, making you look and feel inferior.
which is a problem with people who play monks and/or fighters in a party with rangers, barbarians, and/or paladins
or a rogue in a party with an urban ranger, cryptbreaker alchemist, seeker archetype sage bloodline sorcerer, or archaeologist bard
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It's possible to play a so-called inferior class and have as much fun or more than those superior ones.
No wrongbadfun.
No one disagrees with that. Rogues represent a very popular character concept. As a matter of fact, of the 16 Pathfinder Tales novels I have here, I'd say at least 10 have a Rogue or Rogue-ish character as one of the protagonists.
That doesn't mean the class is balanced or even well designed.
It's possible to have fun playing a commoner, but that doesn't stop them from being vastly inferior to other classes. Same goes for Rogues.
Acknowledging mechanical flaws is not the same as accusing someone of having badwrong fun or hating the class. Quite the contrary, actually... Most often, those who complain about Rogues' class features are not Rogue haters, but frustrated Rogue fans.
If we didn't like the class, why would we care if its underpowered?
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And balance is not the end all be all. I find the constant striving for balance tedious.
And I find the disregard for it foolish.
Those who don't care about balance have nothing to lose if the game is balanced. But those who do care for it have less fun in an unbalanced game.
So why not make the game more balanced and increase the overall fun for everyone?
rogue is one of my favorite classes
but it is so weak in Pathfinder, i'd like to see them beefed up in the next edition, just so that more people have an incentive to play them, and i'm not a fan of being outshined by a character who can cover an extra series of niches better than me. i feel little incentive to play a rogue, no matter how much i love them.
imagine as a rogue. that
you had a ranger that is a better fighter, a better scout and a better trapfinder
or
a bard who is a 2/3 spellcaster, is just good a trapfinder, has access to rogue talents, and a better to hit bonus, alongside better party buffs
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Meh. My assumption is that magical traps obscure their magical aura (or don't have enough of one) so that a simple detect magic doesn't see them any better than searching does. And a quick bit of searching doesn't really lead me to believe detect magic should find magic traps easily.
It seemed like every time we went up to a floor, a door, a chest, a
set of armor or something that appeared to be a magical trap it was a mad dash to see if I, the bard, the wizard or the magus could Detect Magic on it first.my problem with this response
is to make the rogue feel useful, you have to effectively use DM Fiat to eliminate all viable options but the rogue.
my best friend for dealing with most traps, is the wand of mount, which creates a magical summoned horse, that due to being a conjuration, is willing to engage in dangers a normal horse would not.
such as willingly setting off traps, because it knows it isn't a true horse.
Your friend is wrong:
You summon a light horse or a pony (your choice) to serve you as a mount. The steed serves willingly and well. The mount comes with a bit and bridle and a riding saddle.
The summoned light horse or pony is light horse or pony that don't know any special trick.
Making it walk ahead of the party require pushing it with the animal handling skill or having speak with animals active.- * -
Detect magic do exactly tath, it detect the presence of magic and the kind of aura, it don't identify something as a magical trap. You can assume that the abjuration aura you have detected is a trap, but it can be the spell that keep the water to seeping in the underground tunnel or the ward that keep a monster at bay.
Meh. My assumption is that magical traps obscure their magical aura (or don't have enough of one) so that a simple detect magic doesn't see them any better than searching does. And a quick bit of searching doesn't really lead me to believe detect magic should find magic traps easily.
It seemed like every time we went up to a floor, a door, a chest, a
set of armor or something that appeared to be a magical trap it was a mad dash to see if I, the bard, the wizard or the magus could Detect Magic on it first.my problem with this response
is to make the rogue feel useful, you have to effectively use DM Fiat to eliminate all viable options but the rogue.
my best friend for dealing with most traps, is the wand of mount, which creates a magical summoned horse, that due to being a conjuration, is willing to engage in dangers a normal horse would not.
such as willingly setting off traps, because it knows it isn't a true horse.
Your friend is wrong:
You summon a light horse or a pony (your choice) to serve you as a mount. The steed serves willingly and well. The mount comes with a bit and bridle and a riding saddle.The summoned light horse or pony is light horse or pony that don't know any special trick.
Making it walk ahead of the party require pushing it with the animal handling skill or having speak with animals active.- * -
Detect magic do exactly tath, it detect the presence of magic and the kind of aura, it don't identify something as a magical trap. You can assume that the abjuration aura you have detected is a trap, but it can be the spell that keep the water to seeping in the underground tunnel or the ward that keep a monster at bay.
could be because of the way a few of my groups Run Summons and Animal Companions
Summons tend to know they are summoned and thus expendable. and thus don't have the same fears
Animal Companions, And Animals with Planar Templates, tend to be treated as sentient beings
Druid summons, end up with the same templates as their arcane counterparts
PC used pets, cohorts, summons, hirelings, mounts, and followers, tend to follow the PC hive mind as well.
in fact, there isn't much you can do to Stop the PC hive mind mentality.
As the thread was already derailed:
I think we should roll the two weakest classes (fighter and rogue) into one. One needs more power IN combat the other one needs more to do OUT of combat.
If you just make the rogue better in combat the fighter suffers, if you only make the fighter better out of combat the rogue suffers.
Just make them one class with 6+int skillpoints, full bap, fort and ref as good saves and some options to choose from:
- Can choose combat feats or rogue talents as bonus feats
- Has to choose sneak attack or weapon training
- Has to choose trapfinding and +2 skillpoints/level or armor training.
In the end you would have a fighter with better saves and more skillpoints, a rogue who's better in combat and has access to more feats or a mix of both.
This class could fill both roles (in part simultaneously) while still not being better than the other full bab classes (and still inferior to the full casters). No harm done.
As the thread was already derailed:
I think we should roll the two weakest classes (fighter and rogue) into one. One needs more power IN combat the other one needs more to do OUT of combat.
If you just make the rogue better in combat the fighter suffers, if you only make the fighter better out of combat the rogue suffers.Just make them one class with 6+int skillpoints, full bap, fort and ref as good saves and some options to choose from:
- Can choose combat feats or rogue talents as bonus feats
- Has to choose sneak attack or weapon training
- Has to choose trapfinding and +2 skillpoints/level or armor training.In the end you would have a fighter with better saves and more skillpoints, a rogue who's better in combat and has access to more feats or a mix of both.
This class could fill both roles (in part simultaneously) while still not being better than the other full bab classes (and still inferior to the full casters). No harm done.
how about drop the ninja and monk
Gestalt Fighter and Rogue Wholesale
Turn Ninja and Monk into a rogue Talent Chain and Feat Chain respectively
nothing wrong with a full bab character with both full sneak attack and full weapon training.
This is where you start utilizing stratigically placed "Symbol of X" spells around the place.
Player: I use Detect Magic when I enter the room.
GM: ok, you detect a strong X aura
Player: well I focus on it
GM: ok, make a will save
Player: ...
Meh. My assumption is that magical traps obscure their magical aura (or don't have enough of one) so that a simple detect magic doesn't see them any better than searching does. And a quick bit of searching doesn't really lead me to believe detect magic should find magic traps easily.my problem with this response
is to make the rogue feel useful, you have to effectively use DM Fiat to eliminate all viable options but the rogue.
To me, this is isn't really an issue of making the rogue useful. It's about making magical traps not be a stupid waste of resources. Traps don't get set with little flags indicating their presence to anyone looking. Magical traps shouldn't do so either otherwise their very nature serves to enable people to pinpoint their location.
If u have a sorcerer in the group with no magical items on, an enemy casts detect magic...do they sense the sorcerer? I thought most traps couldn't be detected with detect magic because the spell hasn't been "cast" yet if it hasn't gone off?
Also I thought dispell only worked on a few of the traps because a majority of the traps have an "instant" spell that goes off and u can't dispell instant cast spells?
I'm still learning so I was wondering about these. Thought I'd ask these questions since I have pondered on them for awhile.
Also if detect magic does let u see where the trap would be, since the spell only lets u pin point aruas, would the caster still need to "see" the trap to cast dispell on it and such? Like if thevtrap was hidden in a wall, the caster knows its there but if its worked into say a patern or something or painted the same color, would they still be able to dispell it since they only have the magic arua and not actually "seeing" the physical trap?
I kind of seemed gratuitous that 4 people in the party could do something so useful an unlimited number of times a day and it did seem to step on the rogue's toes.
Rogue in pathfinder kinda' sucks. They are still the only ones that can disarm magical traps with disable device(outside of archetypes), but that's actually kind of silly because it means the guy with 20 ranks in knowledge arcana and engineering and trapmaking can't do a thing. Its probably a good thing that other people can do the rogues job in this case, because otherwise without the rogue you'd be screwed, and forcing people into a roll is pretty meh. People with high perception can still find the traps too.
I think the problem is caused by the unlimited casting of zero level spells that pathfinder went with. When there was a limit per day you didn't have spells that felt like spam.
Unlimited spells definitely aren't the problem, unless you don't want people to identify magical objects and your really afraid of ray of frost or something. Also means I can use prestidigitation all day, my coats never been cleaner.
I think the entire development team needs to be beaten to death by Grimtooth.
A saw style dungeon designed by Grimtooth you mean? That qualify as a fate worse than death?
I find it amusing that the entire "Wizurds are Superior!" movement is based so largely on what they can do out of combat, but people that insist that the rogue is all but useless refuse to look at anything that they can do outside of combat.
Oh rogues can do stuff outside of combat just fine, but not better than other classes. Other classes that incidentally are also better IN combat than the rogue. It's like being 3rd string in the NFL, yeah, you are good enough to be there, but other guys are better. In the case of the rogue its like being the back up kicker.
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Heck, nothing in the descriptions of the detection spells says you "see" anything. I've always assumed they just make you magically aware of things, like a magic radar or something. {i]Detect magic[/i] just lets you "know" where magic is, you don't see a glow or anything. Adding in visual information is giving away extra stuff for free on the detect spells.
The real issue with good traps is that they make for poor gaming - traps can be obvious or well hidden, wimpy or deadly.
Obvious wimpy traps might as well not even be there.
Obvious deadly traps will be found, and simply waste time as the PCs figure out how to avoid them.
Well hidden wimpy traps don't make much in-game sense (who goes to the effort of making a crappy trap?) and encourage "I check for traps every 5 feet," which is boring.
Well hidden deadly traps basically just kill a PC out of the blue, then really encourage "I check for traps every 5 feet" for the rest of linear time.
Grimtooth-like traps make for a fun read but I think they hurt gaming in any situation that isn't a Gygaxian-style murderfest.
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Yeah... Classic traps, the ones who can be identified and disabled with a skill check or two are rather boring.
e.g.: A tripwire that shoots Fireballs is boring. Roll Perception. Roll Disable Device (or cast Dispel, whatever). End of trap. Or you fail, take damage and that's it. End of trap.
Fun traps are the ones that put the characters in a dangerous situation and they have to find ways to survive it.
e.g.: You enter a 30x30ft room. When you reach its center, the doors close and the floor starts receding 5ft every round, starting from the middle. You can see a spiked pity bellow. You have 3 rounds to find a way to leave the room before the floor is completely gone.
What do you? Cast Fly and spend a resource? Use your Adamantine daggers to Climb the walls? Gracefully fall in-between spikes? Try to pry the doors open? Look for an deactivation device that might not even exist?
These are interesting situations, because they give the party a chance to actually interact with the trap and be creative about how to solve the problem.
Unfortunately, in this case, Trapfinding is useless.
I say any character with 10 ranks in Spellcraft should be able to use Detect Magic as an SLA at will. Maybe Read Magic too. (By 10th level, you're supposed to be able to kick Hercules' ass, so it's not unreasonable to assume a guy who has 10 ranks in Spellcraft is supernaturally good at it).
Make Trapfinding a feat. Now Rogues are not necessary to disarm magic traps.
To make it up for this lost niche, give them Trap Spotter for free at 3rd level and Improved Evasion at 11th.
Give them proficiency with bucklers and whips, and most importantly, create good Rogue Talents:
- Acrobatic Master: You add a bonus equal to half your Rogue level to all Acrobatic checks. You can perform high-risk acrobatics so easily that you can even do it while taunting and distracting your opponents. Thanks to this confidence, you add your Charisma modifier on Acrobatics checks made to move without provoking attacks of opportunity.
- Assault Leader: Adds a +1 bonus to attack rolls made against opponents the Rogue is flanking. This bonus is increased by +1 at Rogue level 10 and every 5 levels thereafter. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 6)
- Black Market Connections: Rogues can use their connections with shady suppliers to obtain items that are not easily acquired without having the right contacts. As a result, she may carry unspecified equipment worth up to 100 gp per Rogue level. This can be any kind of gear that can reasonably fit into a backpack, including potions and scrolls (but not any other sort of magic item). As a move action, the Rogue may dig through her pockets to retrieve an item she specifies at that time, deducting its value from the allocated amount of cost. This item cannot weigh more than 10 pounds. When the total remaining cost reaches 0, the Rogue can retrieve no more items until she refills her deep pockets by spending a few hours and an amount of gold to bring her total up to 100 gp per class level.
- Befuddling Strike: Whenever you confirm a critical hit against an enemy, you can make a Feint combat maneuver as a free action.
- Canny Observer: You add half your Rogue level on all Knowledge checks made to identify a creature's special abilities and weaknesses.
- Charmer (Sp): Your words are so convincing, you can affect intelligent creatures as if you had enchanted them. If you talk to a target for 1min, you can cast an effect identical to the Charm Monster spell on them. This is a language dependent mind-affecting effect. The target can make a will save to negate this effect (DC = 10 + 1/2 your ranks in Diplomacy + Cha modifier). Whether or not the save is successful, you cannot target that same creature again with this ability for the next 24h. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 10)
- Coax Information: A Rogue with this talent can replace her Sense Motive bonus with her Intimidate bonus.
- Deft Palm: Once per turn, a Rogue can use a swift action to either make a Sleight of Hand check resisted by her target's Perception check or a Bluff check resisted by her target's Sense Motive check. If the Rogue is successful, she gains a +1 bonus to all attacks made against that target until the the start of the Rogue's next turn. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter. However, when using this ability, the maximum number of Sneak Attack damage dice that apply to your attacks is that of a Rogue half your level. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 4) (This ability basically gives you full BAB in exchange for half your Sneak Attack damage. A fair trade, IMO, and it creates another layer of strategy to the game)
- Distracting Attack: Opponents to whom you dealt precision damage suffer a -1 penalty to all attack rolls made against you. This penalty increases by -1 for every 5 Rogue levels you posses. Additionally, they suffer a penalty equal to your Charisma modifier on all concentration checks. These penalties last for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier (Minimum 1). (Prerequisite: Rogue level 6, Cha 13).
- Esoteric Scholar: You add one Knowledge skill of your choice and Spellcraft to your list of class skills. Additionally, you can cast Read Magic as an spell-like ability at will. Your caster level for this ability is equal to your Rogue level.
- Fast Picks: The necessary time require for Disable Device checks is reduced by 1 action category (full-round -> standard -> move -> swift -> free). Disable Device checks made to pick locks or disarm traps have their time reduced by 2 categories instead. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 4)
- Finesse Rogue: Get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. If you already have the Weapon Finesse feat, you instead get another feat you qualify for. (Now you can grab Weapon Finesse at 1st level and not feel like you wasted a feat one level later)
- Force of Personality: You gain Force of Personality as a bonus feat. (Force of Personality is a 3.5 feat that allows characters to add their Cha modifier instead of Wisdom to Will saves).
- Getaway Artist: You can make a Reflex save instead of a Fortitude or Will save whenever one of those would be necessary to resist a spell, spell-like ability or any other supernatural effect that would cause you to be staggered, paralyzed or petrified. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 10).
-Hard to Fool: The Rogue get a +1 bonus to all saves made to resist illusion effects. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 Rogue levels thereafter.
- Hold Breath: You can hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to your Con modifier. Additionally, you a get +1 bonus to all saving throws made to resist spells and other supernatural effects that cause suffocation. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter.
- Honeyed Words: Well you succeed on a Diplomacy check to improve a creature's attitude towards you or your allies, you can improve its attitude by 2 steps instead of one. Additionally, you can retry a failed Diplomacy check to improve a creature's attitude after 12 hours instead of 24.
- Iron Guts: Rogues get a +1 bonus to all saving throws made to resist poison and diseases. This bonus increases by +1 at Rogue level 6 and every 3 levels thereafter.
- Ledge Walker: This ability allows a rogue to move along narrow surfaces at full speed using the Acrobatics skill without penalty. In addition, a rogue with this talent is not flat-footed when using Acrobatics to move along narrow surfaces. Finally, when the Rogue suffers fall damage, this damage is reduce by 1d6 for every 2 Rogue levels.
- Minor Magic: Pick 2 cantrips from the wizard spell list. You can cast both of them at will as an SLA. Your CL for this ability is equal to your Rogue level. The save DC for these cantrips is Int based. (Prerequisite: Int 10). (Because 3 cantrips a day is just pathetic.)
- Major Magic: : Pick 1 1st-level spell from the Wizard spell list. You can cast it as a spell-like ability 3 times per day plus 1 additional time for every 5 Rogue levels. Your caster level for this ability is equal to your Rogue level. The save DC for the spell is Int based. (Prerequisite: Int 11).
- Nimble Climber: You get a Climb speed equal to half your base movement speed. If you already have a Climb speed, it increases by that amount. (Minimum 5ft).
- Opportunist: You can apply your Sneak Attack damage to all attack of opportunity you make, even it wouldn't normally be possible. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 10)
- Peerless Maneuver: Choose one Combat Maneuver. you use your Rogue level instead of your BAB to calculate your CMB when using it. Additionally, you get the appropriate Improved <Combat Maneuver> feat at Rogue level 8. When you reach level 15, you get the Greater version of this feat. If you already have it, you instead get a combat feat you qualify for.
- Powerful Sneak: Treat all 1s and 2s rolled on Sneak Attack damage dice as if they were 3s. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 10)
- Rogue Crawl: You take no penalties for squeezing into tight spaces and you can move at half your base movement speed while prone. Finally, you can stand up from a prone position as a swift action or as a move action. This movement still provokes an attack of opportunity, unless you use a move action to stand up.
- Resiliency: You get a +1 bonus on all saves made to resist energy drain and death effects. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 Rogue levels thereafter. Additionally, you add half your Rogue levels to the number of negative hit points you can reach before dying. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 4)
- Shadow Blend: When you're in an area of darkness or dim-light, all attacks made against you have a 50% miss chance instead of 20%. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 10)
- Slippery Mind: Make a Reflex save instead of a Will save to resist any spells, spell-like abilities or any other supernatural effect that possess or exercises mind control over you. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 10)
- Sniper's Eye: A Rogue with this talent using the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Intelligence modifier (up to her Rogue level) instead of her Strength modifier to damage rolls made with ranged weapon (such as bows and throwing weapons). This is considered precision damage.
- Skill Mastery: Whenever you make an skill check for a skill in which you have at least 1 rank you can roll twice and take the better result. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 8).
- Strong Impression: Add a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier to Initiative checks. (Prerequisite: Rogue level 6)
- Strong Stroke: You get a Swim speed equal to half your base movement speed. If you already have a Swim speed, it increases by that amount. (Minimum 5ft)
- Surprise Attack: Your Sneak Attack automatically deals maximum damage against opponents who are unaware of your presence. (Now when you sneak on the town guard and slice his throat, he dies.)
- Survivalist: You add Heal and Survival to your list of class skills. Additionally, you add a bonus equal to half your Rogue level to all Survival skills made to follow tracks.
- Swift Poisoning: The Rogue can use a swift action instead of a standard or move action to apply poison to an weapon she is currently holding.
- Underhanded: A Rogue with this talent using the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Intelligence modifier (up to her Rogue level) instead of her Strength modifier to damage rolls made with melee weapon. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons. This is considered precision damage. (Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse).
**Rogue Talents that have require Rogue level 10 should be considered Advanced Talents**
There... Rogues are not a "class tax" for trap finders anymore, but they suddenly have interesting, effective and unique features.
Remember this:
If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each.No line of sight? You only know that there is magic, no idea about what school is involved.
I think I'm missing the point here...
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I think I'm missing the point here...Remember this:
If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each.No line of sight? You only know that there is magic, no idea about what school is involved.
You can't identify the spell involved if you don't see the auras.
You don't even know the kind of magic, you only know that there is something magical in the chest, on the wall, etc.So it is easy to create a lot of low cost false traps with with spells with a permanent or long lasting effects. That would make detect magic almost useless to find magical traps.
Dispel magic too require line of sight, as it is a targeted spell.
With an appropriate trigger mechanism the magic trap can be immune to dispel magic.
To me, this is isn't really an issue of making the rogue useful. It's about making magical traps not be a stupid waste of resources. Traps don't get set with little flags indicating their presence to anyone looking. Magical traps shouldn't do so either otherwise their very nature serves to enable people to pinpoint their location.
Meh. My assumption is that magical traps obscure their magical aura (or don't have enough of one) so that a simple detect magic doesn't see them any better than searching does. And a quick bit of searching doesn't really lead me to believe detect magic should find magic traps easily.my problem with this response
is to make the rogue feel useful, you have to effectively use DM Fiat to eliminate all viable options but the rogue.
the Wand of Mount to set off traps has been a practice for setting off traps since the beginning of third edition.
to make Rogues feel useful
you pretty much have to Fiat traps to require a rogue
lead is an extremely rare and valuable resource
if you used lead to block ever trap from detect magic
the price of lead would realistically skyrocket to ludicrously high levels
the magic aura spell has a temporary duration
magic traps have a magic aura
detect magic detects magic auras
the problem with magic traps, is they can be autodetected by a 0 level spell and 3 rounds of concentration
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I think I'm missing the point here...Remember this:
If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each.No line of sight? You only know that there is magic, no idea about what school is involved.You can't identify the spell involved if you don't see the auras.
You don't even know the kind of magic, you only know that there is something magical in the chest, on the wall, etc.
So it is easy to create a lot of low cost false traps with with spells with a permanent or long lasting effects. That would make detect magic almost useless to find magical traps.Dispel magic too require line of sight, as it is a targeted spell.
With an appropriate trigger mechanism the magic trap can be immune to dispel magic.
then you should learn to accept, that the only reason the rogue is your primary trapfinder, is because you sought to eliminate the other trapfinding options by negating the nonroguish trap options.
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Detect Magic should simply be folded into a Spellcraft check. Keeping it as a spell IMO is simply for nostalgia, and is essentially a "cantrip-tax".
Agreed.