RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Jiggy,
Do you have a list or something like what you're talking about anywhere? If so I'd love to see it.
No, right now it's just a mental list of familiar trends/themes that I see almost daily. I haven't decided how to sort/categorize them yet, or in what format to record my thoughts or share them with anyone.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Threads like this make me avoid PFS like the plague.Between this and the spell effects flavor thread I am starting to agree. The legalism is really getting out of hand.
Can I go pick out two non-PFS-related messageboard threads and then tell you what's "really getting out of hand" in your home game that I've never played in?
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Can I go pick out two non-PFS-related messageboard threads and then tell you what's "really getting out of hand" in your home game that I've never played in?Threads like this make me avoid PFS like the plague.Between this and the spell effects flavor thread I am starting to agree. The legalism is really getting out of hand.
Well unlike Odraude I do play PFS so your insinuation is not entirely correct, but go ahead. What I am reacting badly to though are just both effects of the loss of player DM collaboration that is the unavoidable byproduct of organized play, but just because it is endemic doesn't mean that we can't work to minimize it.
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The classic "I will attack the first creature that pass through that door" is a ready action than can be done outside of combat. You must still pass your Perception check if the enemy is using stealth, but if he fail it should work perfectly.I disagree...this really sounds like the person waiting should be rolling a stealth check, whoever enters should be rolling a perception check, and everyone should roll initiative. Surprise round may or may not occur, but I definitely would not give the person "readying" a free swing outside of initiative.
It is not "a free swing outside of initiative", it is an attack during the surprise round or the first round of combat.
It can push the initiative or the guy with the ready action higher that he could normally roll if he guessed the right action to ready, on the other hand if there is non surprise round he would make a single attack instead of a full attack.Depict the situation in which that can occur:
- the adventurer have started destroying things and killing people and the locals are in full alert,
- some of them are in a room with a door looking down an hallway,
- they quickly put up a barricade on the door and place two archers behind it,
- the archers ready an action "as soon as I see someone down the hallway I shoot it".
At that point if the adventurers come running down the corridor no one is hiding, all people perceive everyone, so we have a normal round of combat. The adventurers roll initiative, the archers act 1 tick above the initiative of the first guy entering the hallway and make their single bow attack, then the adventurers get their full round of actions.
The adventurers use stealth instead of running around: the archers need to make a perception check.
The archers try to hide to make an ambush: the adventurers need to make a perception check to see them
Depending on the results of the perception checks you can have a surprise round or not.
The adventurers use passwall and bypass the hallway? The archers need to make a perception check to notice them, the ready action don't trigger and the archers act at their normal initiative during the surprise round if not surprised or during the first full round if surprised.
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individual specific experiences are individual and specific
judging PFS as a whole on this thread is ludicrous
We should remember that the forum reflect the experiences of the people that write in the forum and that as the number of players in PFS increase we see equal an increase in the number of posts about bad GM.
If we have 1,000 players and 1 bad GM we will see 1 thread about him.If we have 10,000 players and 10 bad GMs the percentage is the same, but we will see 10 thread about bad GMs, so we will perceive an increase in threads about bad GMs.
Can "core rulebook to the head" be an official ruling?
I think the owners of the venue where you play will object to that. you know, all that stuff about legal responsibility and damages. Wait till you are outside.
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I have seen plenty of PFS modules where the author writes it so that the bad guys are readyied to attack when the PCs enter a room/clearing/etc. Including some where the bad guy has a weapon to a victims throat and is able to perform a cu-de-grace before the PCs can even act.
As stated, it is not a free swing just a surprise round. Depending on initiative and perception, the PCs may or may not act first.
That scenario has some problems
- a coup de grace is a full round action,- the guy with the hostage need to make a grappling check every round to keep it pinned,
- the two thing don't work together,
- the NPC generally want to do his big speech before cutting the hostage throat.
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individual specific experiences are individual and specific
judging PFS as a whole on this thread is ludicrous
We should remember that the forum reflect the experiences of the people that write in the forum and that as the number of players in PFS increase we see equal an increase in the number of posts about bad GM.
If we have 1,000 players and 1 bad GM we will see 1 thread about him.
If we have 10,000 players and 10 bad GMs the percentage is the same, but we will see 10 thread about bad GMs, so we will perceive an increase in threads about bad GMs.
sure
and 68.52% of statistics are made up on the spot
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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What I am reacting badly to though are just both effects of the loss of player DM collaboration that is the unavoidable byproduct of organized play, but just because it is endemic doesn't mean that we can't work to minimize it.
While I do agree that threads like this are the result of a loss of player/DM collaboration, I disagree with that it's an "unavoidable byproduct of organized play."
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this for me?
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I have seen plenty of PFS modules where the author writes it so that the bad guys are readyied to attack when the PCs enter a room/clearing/etc. Including some where the bad guy has a weapon to a victims throat and is able to perform a cu-de-grace before the PCs can even act.
As stated, it is not a free swing just a surprise round. Depending on initiative and perception, the PCs may or may not act first.
I absolutely cannot stand that rule breaking cheese. I will play it as close to the rules as I can (begin a full round coup de grace)
Readying an action outside of combat is iffy.
If npc's can ready actions for when someone opens the door, PCs can ready actions for when the door is thrown open. This is even easier for them because Gronk the half human battering ram can count 1...2..3.. and then bash the door: the pcs know EXACTLY when the door will open while the NPC's have to react. Both sides have readied actions, its a mulligan, just roll initiative.
Just don't ask gronk to count to 4. We want him wearing pants.
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I have seen plenty of PFS modules where the author writes it so that the bad guys are readyied to attack when the PCs enter a room/clearing/etc. Including some where the bad guy has a weapon to a victims throat and is able to perform a cu-de-grace before the PCs can even act.
As stated, it is not a free swing just a surprise round. Depending on initiative and perception, the PCs may or may not act first.
That scenario has some problems
- a coup de grace is a full round action,
- the guy with the hostage need to make a grappling check every round to keep it pinned,
- the two thing don't work together,
- the NPC generally want to do his big speech before cutting the hostage throat.
If I remember correctly, it is a her, the victim is knocked out and chained to a wall, completely helpless, and there is also a mini-combat going on. It sort of a deal where the party breaks in to see the BBEGess whip up her weapon and say "come closer and I slit his throat", while the DM says "Roll for Initiative!!!" :)
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What I am reacting badly to though are just both effects of the loss of player DM collaboration that is the unavoidable byproduct of organized play, but just because it is endemic doesn't mean that we can't work to minimize it.While I do agree that threads like this are the result of a loss of player/DM collaboration, I disagree with that it's an "unavoidable byproduct of organized play."
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this for me?
There are so many rules and rules interpretations in the game that some DM's are going to have at least one ruling that's crazy enough to be the material component for a fireball spell.
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The question has already been answered, and I agree that players should definitely be allowed to wander around a "dungeon" with their weapons drawn.
But I want to address a different brand of cheese.
In one of our PFS Groups, we have a player who consistently tries to pull this off:
GM: Roll perception checks
GM: You see a group of rough looking men clustering in front and behind you in the narrow alley, but you spot them before the ambush is fully formed. Roll Initiative!
Player: I move up 20 feet and shoot the Half-Orc with my crossbow.
GM: You have Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow)?
Player: No.
GM: Then how are you moving, drawing your crossbow, loading a bolt, and firing it, considering that's at bare minimum two move actions and a standard?
Player: Well I always carry my crossbow loaded.
GM: That's not possible / probable / likely / realistic.
It gets worse when he can act in a surprise round, because then he argues that instead of spending a move action to draw his crossbow, another move action to load it, and a standard to shoot it, he of course carries it in hand loaded at all times, in the middle of a settlement.
Anyways, I just want to say... please don't do this. There's a reason to take Rapid Reload, Quickdraw, or other such feats, or to use a shortbow as a rogue instead of a crossbow.
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What I am reacting badly to though are just both effects of the loss of player DM collaboration that is the unavoidable byproduct of organized play, but just because it is endemic doesn't mean that we can't work to minimize it.While I do agree that threads like this are the result of a loss of player/DM collaboration, I disagree with that it's an "unavoidable byproduct of organized play."
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this for me?
In a real campaign you can talk with the DM and find a way to fit your weird character concept into play. You cannot do this in PFS. No, your cavalier can't ride a giant badger. No, your paladin can't worship the gods of death or magic. No, your kitsune character cannot be Coyote or jackal themed. No, you will probably never get the chance to play a Waterdancer or a Wishcrafter or a Shadow Puppeteer. No, you cannot have an intelligent weapon. No, No, No, No, No.
That loss of the ability to work with rather than within the rules is what I mean by loss of collaboration. In a real campaign you can do things like take a template instead of a level, or start your cavalier out with a skinny runty lion that slowly grows up over the course of a few levels, or make a signature item. Now there are compeltetely legitimate reasons why these things are not alowed in organized play since the experience has to be homogenized across everyone's tables all over the world. The problem is that this will always tend to bring things down to a lowest common denominator and you lose a lot, since the whole point of the game I would argue is collaborative creativity between the players and DM. That is why real campaigns whether homebrewed or adapted from an AP will always be superior to organized play.
We need to mitigate this failing of organized play and I think that the current climate-du-jour in the PFS community especially re: some of the things that come up in reskin threads is really really not helping to do that. The shining example is that when asked about describing spell effects in an interesting way, the community responded by finding a bunch of metamagic feats that a character would have to take in order to describe their spells.
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The question has already been answered, and I agree that players should definitely be allowed to wander around a "dungeon" with their weapons drawn.
But I want to address a different brand of cheese.
In one of our PFS Groups, we have a player who consistently tries to pull this off:
GM: Roll perception checks
GM: You see a group of rough looking men clustering in front and behind you in the narrow alley, but you spot them before the ambush is fully formed. Roll Initiative!Player: I move up 20 feet and shoot the Half-Orc with my crossbow.
GM: You have Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow)?
Player: No.
GM: Then how are you moving, drawing your crossbow, loading a bolt, and firing it, considering that's at bare minimum two move actions and a standard?
Player: Well I always carry my crossbow loaded.
GM: That's not possible / probable / likely / realistic.
It gets worse when he can act in a surprise round, because then he argues that instead of spending a move action to draw his crossbow, another move action to load it, and a standard to shoot it, he of course carries it in hand loaded at all times, in the middle of a settlement.
Anyways, I just want to say... please don't do this. There's a reason to take Rapid Reload, Quickdraw, or other such feats, or to use a shortbow as a rogue instead of a crossbow.
I personally do not have an issue with this either. It's no more unrealistic to have a loaded crossbow than it is to have a strung bow. Realistically, if you walk around with your bow strung, it will weaken the bow (making it bend to that shape) and become useless. Crossbows are actually designed to hold the bolt, that isn't really the issue. The action to reload it is much more about pulling or winching the string back, not loading the bolt in place with should both have a groove in the string to hold it as well as a built in sort of latch to keep the bolt focused in one place so that when fired it doesn't just flip up and fire off in some weird direction or start doing flips. So first attack, I have no issues with it being loaded, and that's honestly one of the points of the crossbow over the bow. Usually you fire a shot and the drop it to pull out your melee, while typically with the bow you fire and move.
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In a real campaign you can talk with the DM and find a way to fit your weird character concept into play. You cannot do this in PFS. No, your cavalier can't ride a giant badger. No, your paladin can't worship the gods of death or magic. No, your kitsune character cannot be Coyote or jackal themed. No, you will probably never get the chance to play a Waterdancer or a Wishcrafter or a Shadow Puppeteer.
As a DM, I have absolutely no issues with that, as long as the players understand that they are a Kitsune, and not a special unique race of Coyote-people, and that their Dire Badger is fluff ONLY, and I and everyone else needs to know up front exactly what it actually is. A lot of this is pretty new ruling to me, I was still operating under the original "yes you can reflavor your staff to be a walking stick or a cane, but it is still 100% a staff for all purposes except flavor" ruling from a long time ago and . . .
No, you cannot have an intelligent weapon. No, No, No, No, No.
My Night Marches of the Kalkamedes Chronicle says otherwise. :)
Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 7,015 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Alignment neutral good; Senses 30 ft.
Intelligence 10, Wisdom 11, Charisma 10; Ego 2; Language speech (Common)
DESCRIPTION
This glittering blade is clearly defective, and a rippling break runs from its tip to its hilt like a crack in a broken window. Gamin is a +1 allying mithral longsword with the permanent broken condition, and when held he can cast guidance on his wielder at will. Only a master swordsmith might repair Gamin’s imperfections, and the Pathfinder Society does not have access to such a resource at this time.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Magical Arms and Armor, guidance, magic weapon
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Yeah, a BAB of +1 allows them to draw on the move, but it's still a move action to move, a move action to load, and a standard action to fire.
Because the trigger mechanisms for medieval crossbows were fairly primitive and you risked discharging them if you sling them from your belt loaded and drawn.
It's the same reason you should assume your weapons are not loaded before you draw and load them. If you're wandering around a dungeon, by all means, load it, because you're creeping around cautiously. But to expect that you loaded your crossbow or musket three days ago and your crossbow has been under tension this whole time, or you've been carrying around a fully loaded musket and haven't managed to lose the ball, or dampen the charge is silly, and munchkin-like.
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I'm pretty sure that magically strengthened/treated bows and unicorn hair bowstrings make standard adventuring gear a little more sturdy than their real world counterparts.
I mean, real bows get messed up thanks to rain. Do you want create water to be the spell that every archer fears?
The Pathfinder rules of "it takes a move action to load a light crossbow or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow" are the simulation. They're there for a reason. And there's no way to carry around a loaded crossbow in your gear. Walking around with it in your hands, loaded, sure, if you're in a position where you're expecting combat and you've already declared that you're doing it. But to shoot someone in a surprise round with a Light Crossbow without Quickdraw and Rapid Reload is silly.
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The Pathfinder rules of "it takes a move action to load a light crossbow or a full-round action to load a heavy crossbow" are the simulation. They're there for a reason. And there's no way to carry around a loaded crossbow in your gear. Walking around with it in your hands, loaded, sure, if you're in a position where you're expecting combat and you've already declared that you're doing it. But to shoot someone in a surprise round with a Light Crossbow without Quickdraw and Rapid Reload is silly.
Are you sure the statement I put in bold is true?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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If he has at least +1 BAB, he can draw the crossbow on the move, and I've always been willing to assume that players' crossbows are loaded by default. Where's the problem?
Whereas I assume that nobody is foolish enough to have a crossbow bolt under 150 lbs. of pressure, stored on her body, pointed gods-know-where. That's just insane. If anybody insists that her PC does indeed pack away a crossbow, loaded and under tension (with the bolt held in place somehow), I'll remember that when she falls and takes damage, or needs to make a Reflex saving throw.
It's like stowing a lit lantern in your backpack.
Holding a loaded crossbow, sure. Not a problem.
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Are you sure the statement I put in bold is true?
Yes. The trigger for crossbows are unlike the triggers for modern guns, they don't have a trigger guard, they're just a large lever underneath the stock of the crossbow. If you pull back the crossbow string and engage it in the nut, and then you hang it from your belt, or sling it on your back, it 's -really easy- to bump the trigger and accidentally fire the crossbow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpuVK1jwMIA
Here's a fairly informative video, so you can see what I mean.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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What I am reacting badly to though are just both effects of the loss of player DM collaboration that is the unavoidable byproduct of organized play, but just because it is endemic doesn't mean that we can't work to minimize it.While I do agree that threads like this are the result of a loss of player/DM collaboration, I disagree with that it's an "unavoidable byproduct of organized play."
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this for me?
In a real campaign you can talk with the DM and find a way to fit your weird character concept into play. You cannot do this in PFS. No, your cavalier can't ride a giant badger. No, your paladin can't worship the gods of death or magic. No, your kitsune character cannot be Coyote or jackal themed. No, you will probably never get the chance to play a Waterdancer or a Wishcrafter or a Shadow Puppeteer. No, you cannot have an intelligent weapon. No, No, No, No, No.
That loss of the ability to work with rather than within the rules is what I mean by loss of collaboration. In a real campaign you can do things like take a template instead of a level, or start your cavalier out with a skinny runty lion that slowly grows up over the course of a few levels, or make a signature item. Now there are compeltetely legitimate reasons why these things are not alowed in organized play since the experience has to be homogenized across everyone's tables all over the world. The problem is that this will always tend to bring things down to a lowest common denominator and you lose a lot, since the whole point of the game I would argue is collaborative creativity between the players and DM. That is why real campaigns whether homebrewed or adapted from an AP will always be superior to organized play.
I see what you're saying now. So I guess I wouldn't label those as "GM/player collaboration." Those strike me more as "campaign rules." Any game - AP/homebrew/PFS - is going to have rules in addition to the rules provided in the books. That's a given. How those rules can fluctuate to the request of the players is only more difficult for PFS. However, if you'll recall, many rules have changed for PFS over the last 6 years. Things have been removed, added, and adjusted in response to player demand. They just take longer to change given the massive scope of having a multi-continent group of people existing in a shared universe.
I also disagree that the rules bring the game down to the lowest common denominator; PFS is still full of rich, complex plots, NPCs, combats, and adventure. Eyes of the Ten is a great example of this and stands, in my mind, as one of the pinnacles of my gaming experiences. Despite being just a series of PFS scenarios, it is anything but basic or bland.
GM/player collaboration to me is more the idea of the GM and the players working together at the table to accomplish "fun." What "fun" is at that table determines on its participants, and it's up to everyone there to contribute in order to pull it off. That kind of collaboration can lead to things as zany as your imagination. Including "reflavoring" your magic missles into little purple skulls.
We need to mitigate this failing of organized play and I think that the current climate-du-jour in the PFS community especially re: some of the things that come up in reskin threads is really really not helping to do that. The shining example is that when asked about describing spell effects in an interesting way, the community responded by finding a bunch of metamagic feats that a character would have to take in order to describe their spells.
I don't believe that's how the community responded at all. There was far from consensus as to what the reaction would be. I think that Adam said it best: "You will get some mixed answers here." Stephen was the only person to bring up those metamagic feats, and was doing so because his opinion differed from others. Which, I believe, is the point of this messageboard -- to discuss our thoughts on various matters relating to PFS.
To paint "the community" as having a shared response to that OPs question is rather inaccurate.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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If he has at least +1 BAB, he can draw the crossbow on the move, and I've always been willing to assume that players' crossbows are loaded by default. Where's the problem?Whereas I assume that nobody is foolish enough to have a crossbow bolt under 150 lbs. of pressure, stored on her body, pointed gods-know-where. That's just insane. If anybody insists that her PC does indeed pack away a crossbow, loaded and under tension (with the bolt held in place somehow), I'll remember that when she falls and takes damage, or needs to make a Reflex saving throw.
It's like stowing a lit lantern in your backpack.
Holding a loaded crossbow, sure. Not a problem.
This is why wise adventurers invest in repeating crossbows.
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One of our local GMs, who happens to be our Venture Captain as well, is now saying that even when our weapon wielding party members are walking through dungeons, with our weapons in hand, we still have to use a move action to "Ready" them before attacking. His logic is that its this way because otherwise the Quickdraw feat is useless. I tried to tell him about the standard charge rules during surprise rounds, but he won't hear it. He says he'll do it this way until someone shows him an official ruling here on the forums, even though its completely counter-intuitive. My 25+ years of D&D and RPG experience means nothing to him, and even real world examples are falling on deaf ears. All he says beyond that is to take it up with the Venture Captain (Him).
So I need an "Official" Pathfinder Society ruling to get back the move actions for everyone who plays at his and his lieutenants' tables.
Well, if that's his interpretation, that's his interpretation. I can see why someone would run the game that way, having experienced way-too-many PCs, usually archers, who try to get around having to draw their weapon at the start of a combat. If you believe you cannot have an enjoyable play experience at his table, then I guess your best option is to present your case, and barring that, either deal with it or don't play at his table. If that's how he wants to run his game, that's how he wants to run his game.
The last thing the campaign staff needs is an expectation of being rules sages. There's a reason why the Living Greyhawk campaign staff announced about five years in that they were not to be asked rules questions, likely because the deluge of questions and mistrust of table GMs got out of control.
-Matt
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This is why wise adventurers invest in repeating crossbows.If he has at least +1 BAB, he can draw the crossbow on the move, and I've always been willing to assume that players' crossbows are loaded by default. Where's the problem?Whereas I assume that nobody is foolish enough to have a crossbow bolt under 150 lbs. of pressure, stored on her body, pointed gods-know-where. That's just insane. If anybody insists that her PC does indeed pack away a crossbow, loaded and under tension (with the bolt held in place somehow), I'll remember that when she falls and takes damage, or needs to make a Reflex saving throw.
It's like stowing a lit lantern in your backpack.
Holding a loaded crossbow, sure. Not a problem.
Exactly, although they're exotic weapons so you'll take a -4 Penalty to hit unless you are proficient.
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Whereas I assume that nobody is foolish enough to have a crossbow bolt under 150 lbs. of pressure, stored on her body, pointed gods-know-where. That's just insane.
Have you met many adventurers? They plunge into zombie infested ruins, hurl each other over cliffs, grapple fire elementals, use dangerous chemicals to turn themselves into mutated freaks, and try to pet the oozes. :)
The crossbow is already a bad enough option that i don't worry about it.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Exactly, although they're exotic weapons so you'll take a -4 Penalty to hit unless you are proficient.This is why wise adventurers invest in repeating crossbows.If he has at least +1 BAB, he can draw the crossbow on the move, and I've always been willing to assume that players' crossbows are loaded by default. Where's the problem?Whereas I assume that nobody is foolish enough to have a crossbow bolt under 150 lbs. of pressure, stored on her body, pointed gods-know-where. That's just insane. If anybody insists that her PC does indeed pack away a crossbow, loaded and under tension (with the bolt held in place somehow), I'll remember that when she falls and takes damage, or needs to make a Reflex saving throw.
It's like stowing a lit lantern in your backpack.
Holding a loaded crossbow, sure. Not a problem.
I said wise, not skilled by any means :P
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No, right now it's just a mental list of familiar trends/themes that I see almost daily. I haven't decided how to sort/categorize them yet, or in what format to record my thoughts or share them with anyone.Jiggy,
Do you have a list or something like what you're talking about anywhere? If so I'd love to see it.
Now I am scared, wondering which ones I made last weekend. ;)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16
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It gets worse when he can act in a surprise round, because then he argues that instead of spending a move action to draw his crossbow, another move action to load it, and a standard to shoot it, he of course carries it in hand loaded at all times, in the middle of a settlement.
In a rough area (Let's say the back alleys of the Puddles...), it's not unreasonable for someone to walk down the street with a weapon in hand or even a nocked arrow. Carrying a loaded crossbow may be unreasonable in some areas, but I can picture someone moving with their crossbow already cocked and a bolt in hand. Placing the bolt would take mere moments (i.e.: a free action): The move/full-round action represents the effort needed to cock the crossbow.
Of course, such behavior is comparable to carrying a leveled gun in a town...
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If the player declares beforehand that they're doing that, then I've no problem with it. But as you say, there may be consequences for carrying a loaded and ready crossbow in a populated area. It only becomes smelly cheese when they retroactively decide they've been walking around a formal ball this entire time with their crossbow loaded, cocked, and ready to go.
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The classic "I will attack the first creature that pass through that door" is a ready action than can be done outside of combat. You must still pass your Perception check if the enemy is using stealth, but if he fail it should work perfectly.I disagree...this really sounds like the person waiting should be rolling a stealth check, whoever enters should be rolling a perception check, and everyone should roll initiative. Surprise round may or may not occur, but I definitely would not give the person "readying" a free swing outside of initiative.It is not "a free swing outside of initiative", it is an attack during the surprise round or the first round of combat.
It can push the initiative or the guy with the ready action higher that he could normally roll if he guessed the right action to ready, on the other hand if there is non surprise round he would make a single attack instead of a full attack.Depict the situation in which that can occur:
- the adventurer have started destroying things and killing people and the locals are in full alert,
- some of them are in a room with a door looking down an hallway,
- they quickly put up a barricade on the door and place two archers behind it,
- the archers ready an action "as soon as I see someone down the hallway I shoot it".At that point if the adventurers come running down the corridor no one is hiding, all people perceive everyone, so we have a normal round of combat. The adventurers roll initiative, the archers act 1 tick above the initiative of the first guy entering the hallway and make their single bow attack, then the adventurers get their full round of actions.
The adventurers use stealth instead of running around: the archers need to make a perception check.
The archers try to hide to make an ambush: the adventurers need to make a perception check to see them
Depending on the results of the perception checks you can have a surprise round or not.The adventurers use...
The archers act on their initiative like everyone else. Readying is a standard action, which is meaningless outside of initiative. If their initiative roll lets them act before the PCs, then they can do a full attack or use a standard to ready an attack. This keeps things fair. A quick or stealthy enough PC could poke their head around the corner and jump back before the archers get a chance to react (he beats their initiative when they notice each other, or they fail to notice him). Or the archers manage to be quick enough and loose a volley of arrows as the PC lollygags (they beat him in initiative and attack).
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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There's nothing against going around with loaded crossbows, bows, or guns. There is no extra chance of misfire or damage to the weapon. Stop trying to make up rules to make things harder.
You say you don't like lever & nut crossbow triggers? Fine, put a different type of trigger on. There's firearms around, using their trigger design works fine on a crossbow. You don't have to use the nut either. A drop-post or a push-over design can work instead.
A proper spoon on the crossbow will keep any bolt from falling off prematurely.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Let me add a few points to this discussion.
First and foremost, a VC or VL is a coordinator who helps organize and schedule game days and conventions. Some of them may not be the world class GMs but at least they try. I can tell you first hand that most would rather play than GM, but due to a lack of local volunteers to GM, they step up to the plate to GM so the rest of the players in their region can have a good time. If a VC or VL does not meet your personal expectation of what a good GM is, then I encourage you to step up, lead by example, and give back to your local community. Before you decided to come here and publicly throw your VC under the bus, did you volunteer to GM at the next game day?
With that said, if a VC or VL makes an egregious error in judgment, my email is always open and I almost always respond within a few hours of receiving an email. Airing out grievances on a public message board is only going to make the problem worse. Please email me with as much details as possible about this incident, as well as any others you care to have looked into.
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let me add a few points to this discussion.
First and foremost, a VC or VL is a coordinator who helps organize and schedule game days and conventions. Some of them may not be the world class GMs but at least they try. I can tell you first hand that most would rather play than GM, but due to a lack of local volunteers to GM, they step up to the plate to GM so the rest of the players in their region can have a good time. If a VC or VL does not meet your personal expectation of what a good GM is, then I encourage you to step up, lead by example, and give back to your local community. Before you decided to come here and publicly throw your VC under the bus, did you volunteer to GM at the next game day?
With that said, if a VC or VL makes an egregious error in judgment, my email is always open and I almost always respond within a few hours of receiving an email. Airing out grievances on a public message board is only going to make the problem worse. Please email me with as much details as possible about this incident, as well as any others you care to have looked into.
Honestly you may consider this what you may, but one of the reasons I DM is so people do not have to suffer through the horrible expereinces I have played through.
WHen I DM I try to learn from what makes me furious at the table and make sure no one else has to suffer through that.
I felt cheated at bonekeep. So at our con that gets to run this I want to DM this to give everyone a fair honest shot and not artificially make it harder. When I heard GMS saying they call it boned-keep for a reason I was pretty furious that they used that justification to cheat.
Although when I find a DM I like I flock to their game like lice.
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My local VL, had players flee when fail ST from Dragon Fright, cause he was remembering it that way from playing and so read it wrong. He also is certain he saw "earth Glide" did not work through worked stone but could not find it any where. And this was only last weeks game.
I understand mistakes. Everyone just about makes mistakes or bad rulings. Although when they are approached about a bad ruling is what decides what tpye of DM they are to me.
Also Jeff Morse for everyone that reads this. Is one of the awesome VOs I was glad to meet and would feel honored play any game he runs.