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Be sure that his tavern gets giant rats in the basement at least once a month. It's not a penalty for him since wandering adventurers come clean them out.
Houserules
Or, you know, he could just use the Downtime rules I linked to earlier to use the system Paizo developed for the Bar, which includes how much it costs to maintain, how much it makes, how much it costs, etc...
MDT, that's an amazing set of rules you linked to. I'm going to start running RoTRL adventure path soon and I love the idea that my players can have already fleshed out rules to build up businesses in Sandpoint. Now someone should come up with rules for guilds now, especially guilds of harlots....
MDT, that's an amazing set of rules you linked to. I'm going to start running RoTRL adventure path soon and I love the idea that my players can have already fleshed out rules to build up businesses in Sandpoint. Now someone should come up with rules for guilds now, especially guilds of harlots....
Within those downtime rules, look at the rules for Teams and Organizations.
MDT,
I'm not fond at all of the downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign. I find the retrain rules way way too generous.
Just to clarify something, the Retraining Rules aren't part of the Downtime Rules.
thanks a lot everyone for the info.
So far I asked the players a few more info about the size he wants, the type of services that he wants to offer (standard, bard, legal operation or illegal, etc).
In the exemple the price for a inn was around 1300 (wow I was expecting something higher). so my pc took some skill points for that (profession: bartender 4). so lets assume its a 14 (take 10) for the roll. 1 influence is like 15 gold/day, i guess from that price, it will vary +/- with different value (salary, taxes, stuff like that) and from that amount will be the total cost/profit the Pc do each day.
Did I missed something?
I believe dividing by 10.
Heh. nice mistake to make :)
Opening a tavern in Sandpoint in RoTRL might be interesting. Lotta competition for a small town but as the path progresses the PC will have one hell of an advantage due to fame.
HouserulesOr, you know, he could just use the Downtime rules I linked to earlier to use the system Paizo developed for the Bar, which includes how much it costs to maintain, how much it makes, how much it costs, etc...
Great point because this thread is tottally in the rules forum... Oh wait. Also the op asked for advice seperate of Ultimate Campaign... Hmm... Maybe just chill out and let people offer their advice in the advice forum. If you want to point to the rules and tell people how they did it wrong then that is one forum down.
If you want to let him buy an existing Inn, it's 1,390GP total. That's buying it from the current owner.
Now, he also needs some serving girls/maids (2), a Cook (1), and a Stable Hand (1) and a Bartender (1) (5 Lackeys) which cost 240gp (or, 120gp worth of resources).
He'll also need an Innkeeper to keep it going while he's out on adventures (which costs 2 gp per day). This is a manager, and it keeps his employees from giving up and running off when he's out adventuring, even if he's gone for 30 days or more.
Once he has all of those, he can make rolls to see how his Inn does each month :
Payments :
30 days of Innkeeper pay : 60 gp
Inn GP Generation Check :
Bar : +10 Check
Common Room : +7 Check
Kitchen : +4 Check
Lodging : +12 Check
Stall : +8 Check
So, make a Profession (Innkeeper) check with a total bonus of +41 (Take 10 since this is for multiple days) and divide that by 10 to get his daily earnings, then multiply by 30 for the month. Remember to reduce the effectiveness if he wasn't there at least once every 2 weeks (-7GP to his total for every 2 weeks he wasn't there).
So, inn on a take 10 get's 51, so it makes 5.1 gp per day (3.1 gp profit after paying for his innkeeper!), so he makes 5.1 * 30 = 153 gp for the month (93 after paying for Innkeeper). Reduce that by 7 for each two weeks he wasn't there at least one day.
Next, make his roll for his lackeys (they contribute as well).
Organization Check :
Lackeys : +2
Take 10, 12, or 1.2 gp per day. Times 30 = 36 gp. Again, reduce total by 7 for each 14 days he wasn't there.
So, assuming he stopped in at least once every other week for the month...
He made 153+36-60 = 129gp for the month.
Great point because this thread is tottally in the rules forum... Oh wait. Also the op asked for advice seperate of Ultimate Campaign... Hmm... Maybe just chill out and let people offer their advice in the advice forum. If you want to point to the rules and tell people how they did it wrong then that is one forum down.HouserulesOr, you know, he could just use the Downtime rules I linked to earlier to use the system Paizo developed for the Bar, which includes how much it costs to maintain, how much it makes, how much it costs, etc...
Or, maybe you could, I don't know, read the OP's request? Where he asked for, uhm what was it... hang on, I'll remember it in a second... oh yeah! He asked for a link or quick rundown on the rules from the Ultimate Campaign book... right, so telling him how to houserule instead is totally on topic...
Just as on topic as someone asking advice on how to use the Monster PC rules from the Bestiary, and someone telling them to go look up the Effective Character Level Modifier from 3.5 bestiary...
Just to clarify something, the Retraining Rules aren't part of the Downtime Rules.MDT,
I'm not fond at all of the downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign. I find the retrain rules way way too generous.
Well, technically they are listed as something you can do in yoru downtime, but no, the rules themselves aren't in the downtime.
Great point because this thread is tottally in the rules forum... Oh wait. Also the op asked for advice seperate of Ultimate Campaign... Hmm... Maybe just chill out and let people offer their advice in the advice forum. If you want to point to the rules and tell people how they did it wrong then that is one forum down.HouserulesOr, you know, he could just use the Downtime rules I linked to earlier to use the system Paizo developed for the Bar, which includes how much it costs to maintain, how much it makes, how much it costs, etc...Or, maybe you could, I don't know, read the OP's request? Where he asked for, uhm what was it... hang on, I'll remember it in a second... oh yeah! He asked for a link or quick rundown on the rules from the Ultimate Campaign book... right, so telling him how to houserule instead is totally on topic...
Just as on topic as someone asking advice on how to use the Monster PC rules from the Bestiary, and someone telling them to go look up the Effective Character Level Modifier from 3.5 bestiary...
The op asked for advice in the advice forum. It is not helpful to disparage people for offering advice, even if it is different from what you would give. If this were the rules forum I would agree with you.
The op asked for advice in the advice forum. It is not helpful to disparage people for offering advice, even if it is different from what you would give. If this were the rules forum I would agree with you.
Except that isn't what he asked for.
And I've never got the ultimate campaign because no one was interested in buildings or stuff. Our new player is new to pf but an old timer for dnd. Good thing since we wants more info on setting and rp, very different from my old players and that push me as creating something more ad a gm, good thing.Now a player got 10k gold for a tavern. Can someone give me a crash course (or a link on d20 that i can't find) for running a tavern? I don't want to build a whole kingdom just for 1 building but I want to give a good feeling for that new players since he want to invest himself, and so do I.
If he'd asked 'How can I give him a tavern' then that's fine. But when someone asks for advice on a specific thing, tossing around 'Oh that's dumb do this' and giving generalities about how to do it, and not concrete examples, is not really helpful or useful.
Can someone give me a crash course
Is satisfied by the response EWHM provided.
So, are you guys going to give him more advice, or keep arguing?
I don't mind either way. Both are entertaining.
Well, technically they are listed as something you can do in yoru downtime, but no, the rules themselves aren't in the downtime.Just to clarify something, the Retraining Rules aren't part of the Downtime Rules.MDT,
I'm not fond at all of the downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign. I find the retrain rules way way too generous.
I'm just saying that someone shouldn't dismiss the downtime rules because they don't like the retraining rules, as they are not intrinsically linked.
The person's complaint about being too stingy with resources is a good reason to dismiss (or modify) them though. I don't agree, as building up resources isn't an easy thing to do. I could work my whole life and not have enough money to buy a brand new building, staff it with workers, and get purchase product to sell, because, unless I work some very lucrative position, I'm mostly spinning my wheels enough to support myself and make a modest savings. You make it too easy, and one would wonder why everyone in your world doesn't run a business. Low cost, high profit, no brainer.
If you want to let him buy an existing Inn, it's 1,390GP total. That's buying it from the current owner.
Now, he also needs some serving girls/maids (2), a Cook (1), and a Stable Hand (1) and a Bartender (1) (5 Lackeys) which cost 240gp (or, 120gp worth of resources).
He'll also need an Innkeeper to keep it going while he's out on adventures (which costs 2 gp per day). This is a manager, and it keeps his employees from giving up and running off when he's out adventuring, even if he's gone for 30 days or more.
Once he has all of those, he can make rolls to see how his Inn does each month :
Payments :
30 days of Innkeeper pay : 60 gpInn GP Generation Check :
Bar : +10 Check
Common Room : +7 Check
Kitchen : +4 Check
Lodging : +12 Check
Stall : +8 CheckSo, make a Profession (Innkeeper) check with a total bonus of +41 (Take 10 since this is for multiple days) and divide that by 10 to get his daily earnings, then multiply by 30 for the month. Remember to reduce the effectiveness if he wasn't there at least once every 2 weeks (-7GP to his total for every 2 weeks he wasn't there).
So, inn on a take 10 get's 51, so it makes 5.1 gp per day (3.1 gp profit after paying for his innkeeper!), so he makes 5.1 * 30 = 153 gp for the month (93 after paying for Innkeeper). Reduce that by 7 for each two weeks he wasn't there at least one day.
Next, make his roll for his lackeys (they contribute as well).
Organization Check :
Lackeys : +2Take 10, 12, or 1.2 gp per day. Times 30 = 36 gp. Again, reduce total by 7 for each 14 days he wasn't there.
So, assuming he stopped in at least once every other week for the month...
He made 153+36-60 = 129gp for the month.
I'm a bit confused (this is a normal situation) about lackeys.
Now, he also needs some serving girls/maids (2), a Cook (1), and a Stable Hand (1) and a Bartender (1) (5 Lackeys) which cost 240gp (or, 120gp worth of resources).
So you pony up 42 gp each, and they become slaves for life? Shouldn't they get paid.
Shouldn't the cook and bartender be paid as trained hirelings (3sp per day) and the others as untrained hirelings (1 sp per day)? And shouldn't that cook have a couple of assistants?
Nope, only the managers are paid daily.
The lackey's aren't specific NPCs. The lackey's represent the organization called 'Inn Staff'. They are just cogs, and can be replaced if they leave, or die, as long as you've kept up the inn and been visible around it. Basically, it takes a bit to get the staff in place, but once it's working and the inn is a going concern, finding a replacement waitress isn't work, there are people lining up to work there.
It's assumed you're paying them, and that there's some turnover. Basically, the up front cost is in recruiting the staff. The staff's pay is basically assumed to be paid out of what it earns as part of the organization, and you're skimming some of the profit off the top. The InnKeeper, as a manager, is going above and beyond the normal work expectations, so he get's paid.
As far as the cook and assistants, most people in a small inn (which is what you have, only a half-dozen guests usually) run multiple jobs. Your bartender is serving drinks while the serving girls are helping with lunch preparations, and the stable hand is running errands and getting food when he's not feeding and caring for the horses.
Remember, he also automatically becomes a lvl 40 fighter with ALL the feats as long as he is in his inn (that is how it goes right?)
If he has a 10k to spend, he could get a WALL OF FIRE boiler and offer hot running water!
Here is a spell to kill all the vermin. A cute elven Arcane Trickster who is fastidious about icky bug bites comes by when you need the spell. Err, you never want her to stay because she haunted. . . .things move around, crockery gets broken, the darts no longer fly where they are expected. She summons a small air elemental to get the fumes out and improve the smell. She sells perfune, incense, and cologne, and has connections to get coffee, cane sugar, vanilla, cocoa, nutmeg, and cinnamon. If you have rum, she prefers cachaca.
Fumigate 1 week 1000 gp
School conjuration (creation) [poison]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (extract of or a boquet of chrysanthemum flowers; a few drops of citrus oil; 1 pinch each of borax, salt, and diatomaceous earth)
Range Short (20 ft + 5 ft/lvl)
Area: Special or 20 ft radius
Duration: 1 rd/lvl
Saving Throw: Special Spell Resistance yes
De: Noxious vapors billow up and cloud the area. A cloying, choking vapor seeps into cracks and crevices, killing all the small vermin.
Ex: Fumigate works on buildings and other structures. It instantly paralyzes any vermin of less than 1 HD and kills them in 1d4 rounds after that. The area of effect is one contiguous building, a campsite, collection of shacks, or other constructed shelter. Vermin over 1 HD take 1d6 con damage for every round, up to 4, that they are in the area of effect. Con damage to vermin can only be healed by magical means. They will try and flee the area and will only stay if magically compelled to do so. Note: 4d6 con damage is enough to kill or incapacitate a person. No one is allowed to be inside during the fumigation, lest they take con damage! Damage is negated by holding one's breath and leaving the area in a panicked state. Saving throws for other than vermin are considered to be automatic, after the first round.
Note: a fumigation is good for a number months, depending upon the cleanliness of the inhabitants. It can last weeks, months, or even years.
One note I did not see mentioned above (apologies if I managed to overlook it), a PC owning an Inn gives the party as a whole a base of operations (i.e. leadership feat bonus) and is now a place for adventure hooks (a place where someone can specifically find the PC for a "job" or leave a message for such a thing).
Call it "the Special Snowflake Inn"