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I have a great suggestion. The adventure was for dnd 3.5 but I guess can easly be converted to pf. The name is Labyrinth of Madness. The adventure was for lvl 17 to 19. I've read most of it and I've tried it one time. I was not experienced to be honest but our party got almost destroyed in the very first room. (spoiler alert: it was funny as hell).

The fight are not that hard, but it's the kind of dungeon that force player to think outside the box and not just have the strongest character. Might be very cool for experienced players

Taenia: I like your idea, very original but effective I like it.

I guess the first question I need to ask myself is: physical or energy?

Physical: no spell resist and there is a few archer feats that can be used, I can see monster with like 5/10/15 dr max, but I attack AC.

Energy: Easier to touch because of touch ac, only used precide shot, can use spell focus and spell pen, but need to bypass spell pen and monster can have bigger resistance to elements.

Anyone got a preference for on element or the other?

You see, already with the first question, it is already brining light on a subject: it can be one or the other. I was expecting a range guy, but it doesnt seems difficult to build it range avec having 1 power for melee with weapon finess. So to answer: long range. Maybe back up melee.

2: 2. As I understand at my level I can have major in one element and minor in a second one.

3: in a noble sacrifice. Long story short we had to destroy the crown of an iron king. (Hope this is not spoiling anything), to destroy it, one person needs to willingly put the crown on his head...and dies. No save, no raise. He will be remembered as a hero of the kingdom.

4: not in particular but the archtype doesnt sound THAT appealing. Anyway for comprehension reasons, might as well start simple.

So I just got my hand on the new book and while I'm SUPER happy that this book is not like any psychic book from 3.5, I'm still confused.

I'm joining a game as Kineticist 15/mythic 4. (Previous character died last game session). I'm not sure about elements yet but I don't think that this is super important for now. Here are my questions

1:what kind of feats is working with the blast? Weapon focus, guess i can take imp initiative and toughness...there is no "spell focus for kinetic blast". Am I supposed to take feats like precise shot and such for range?

2:this is a mythic game but maybe I am bad with understanding that class but I don't think there is any mythic path specific for kineticist. Archmage boost spells...but we don't have spells. Champion gives extra attacks...but its a standard action.

The more I read my post, the more its "half advice, half rules" I guess.

Thanks in advance for helping me

Is it really that simple?

Probably there is an answer somewhere but i can't find it.

Lets say i can cast mythic false life or mythic haste. Is it possible to cast that spell as a mythic version but in a regular contingency?

If yes, then do I use mythic point only when contingency is cast? Is that mythic point is "reserved' until used? Is it used when contingency activate?

That situation might happens in my next game so i want to be sure to use that by the rules.

Thank you for your help


anyone else got any idea?

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Here is the thing.

Arcane surge: Arcane Surge (Su): As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. If you prepare spells, this spell must be one you prepared today (even if you have already cast it); if you're a spontaneous caster, this spell must be one of your spells known. If the spell requires a saving throw, any non-mythic creatures affected by the spell roll twice and take the lower result. If you must attempt a caster level check for the spell to overcome a creature's spell resistance, you can roll your caster level check twice (adding your tier to each) and take the higher result. You can't add a metamagic feat to a spell you cast using this ability.

Does that power change the casting time of the spell to a swift or do you have to use a swift + the casting time of your spell?

If you can cast your spell as a swift, does it works with full round? 10 min cast?

I can't find any faqs about this

Question: here is divine source for mythic

Divine Source (Su): You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause, allowing them to select you as their deity for the purposes of determining their spells and domains. Select two domains upon taking this ability. These domains must be alignment domains matching your alignment if possible, unless your alignment is neutral. You grant access to these domains as if you were a deity. Creatures that gain spells from you don't receive any spells per day of levels higher than your tier; they lose those spell slots. In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier. Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains). If you're a cleric or you venerate a deity, you may change your spell domains to those you grant others. At 6th tier and 9th tier, you can select this ability again, adding one domain and two subdomains (see the Advanced Player's Guide) to your list each time and adding their spells to the list of those that you can cast.

Let's assume a character with no wisdom (but charisma) like a sorcerer. 7 wisdom, 18 charisma...

1- Can he cast the spells from these domains?
2- Is it based on wisdom or as an oracle could take, charisma?
3- Does he gain the powers from the domains (exemple, darkness could give him blind-fight)
4- When the power mention cleric levels, what would be considered level in this case.

5 and last question: Can he even take that mythic power or it is out of the question?

This is probably the most unclear power I've seen and I can't find the answers on the forum

thank you in advance

Great advice so far thank you very much. Not used to play a high level caster. He won't be alone so i'm not gonna put EVERYTHING (good guys still win) but i want him to be a big fight where the players will be proud at the end.

My wizard can summon 1/day an outsider by sating his true name. He can force him/her to do his bidding. Depending of the job the outsider might be really pissed and try to harm the summoner (but cant directly). My player took a contract with an angel that his job was only againts outsider that mess things up in other plan (part of the background for the pc).

Lets say an air elemental attack the party in the material plane, he could summon her. If the party is attack the air elemental while on the plane of air, the angel could be forced to do it, but it does not respect the engagement the wizard took

I love climatic battle as a end game campaign. Here is the setup: team of 5, all lvl 12. Wizard controller, Archer, sorc blaster, paly and rogue. I want to know what kind of spell a lvl 16 sorcerer could precast when he KNOW the pc are comming and he already have all the info on players' tactics.

The team will have stuff to do in fight while the BBEG will be busy with an npc that will weaken him (far away from killing it but still) so "over preparation" is not an issue.

The archer is pretty strong
The blaster is based around fire damage and changing type to lightning damage if needed
The wizard is illusion and charm based and got a true name (contract for killing creature NOT in their original plan)
Rogue is skill based ( i got a spotlight for him)
And the paly got an evil outsider killing sword

So I'll be playing in a game as an orc druid saurian type. We will have other races like gnoll kobold goblin and such so a "tribe" game.

I'm not looking for min maxing since its not that typeof game. Since I'll be playing melee type shifter with power attack furious focus and natural spell. I'm looking for feat and trait that might be cool, not useless but at the same time would fit.

Except the 3 feats already named, anything I might have missed?


Only thing in my mind right now:GO GREEN RANGER *power ranger music starting*

That might seems funny but lets face it: summoner is very strong. I really like the idea but the mecanics are strong and can destroy the fun of the other players AND the gm (i play on both sides so I know how it is)

I was wondering if there is a way to make a summoner fun to play but for everyone.

Obviously synthesist and master summoner are both out of the way. Maybe if i use an eidolon with weapons instead of natural attack to balance everything? He would need to spend evo points for arms and proficiency, would not have full bab and full str and touch and damage and would force the summoner (me) to buy these weapons to compensate.

Doest that feel ok or is there other GM or players with idea of summoners fun to play but not broken as hell?

Thank you

Very impressive character build. been a long time I was looking for something like this but was unable to do it right.

Fun fact: I compared that guy lvl 11 vs a adult black dragon (no gear) and even on full attack, the dragon do an average of 13 damage when everything hit (2 attacks are useless if not a crit)

Question: not sure to understand how guarded life works. Lets say I got 10 hp left and I'm level 11 (dr 11/-) the bad guy got full attack, hit 2 times. both attack do 23 damage lets say. Do I have only 1 time guarded life to transfer in non lethal? Do I even take damage?

Explain me please :)

Reason why its here and not rules section is thats rules are clear and no mistakes there: dm fiat is written blac and white there.

My group killed a bad guy with a chaotic intelligent weapon. Weapon powerful yes (+5 equivalent for a lvl 11 pc) but its pretty clear its not the kind of weapon they want to use. They did the spellcraft check over 1 month in game time and they got all the info, including the weapon goal: chaos above everything else.

I was not expecting a player to keep the weapon considering they knew the dc to resist the ego. The player even refused to get items to improve will save. Yes i can be blamed but it was a trap and they jumped in

Other players want to use protection from chaos to free the players and get rid of the weapon.

Now here is the thing: prot from chaos protect from mind control and CAN protect from similar effect . Now considering keeping the weapon will eventually (very soon) cause the downfall of the player (weapon want the king with another one, for the lolz) and the player fell the ego challenge final question is

Should i let prot from chaos work or let the trap go full speed ahead?

thanks a lot everyone for the info.

So far I asked the players a few more info about the size he wants, the type of services that he wants to offer (standard, bard, legal operation or illegal, etc).

In the exemple the price for a inn was around 1300 (wow I was expecting something higher). so my pc took some skill points for that (profession: bartender 4). so lets assume its a 14 (take 10) for the roll. 1 influence is like 15 gold/day, i guess from that price, it will vary +/- with different value (salary, taxes, stuff like that) and from that amount will be the total cost/profit the Pc do each day.

Did I missed something?

... And I've never got the ultimate campaign because no one was interested in buildings or stuff. Our new player is new to pf but an old timer for dnd. Good thing since we wants more info on setting and rp, very different from my old players and that push me as creating something more ad a gm, good thing.

Now a player got 10k gold for a tavern. Can someone give me a crash course (or a link on d20 that i can't find) for running a tavern? I don't want to build a whole kingdom just for 1 building but I want to give a good feeling for that new players since he want to invest himself, and so do I.

How much would cost a tavern in a big city
How much per month for profit
What kind of event could happens while he is during a downtime? During his adventuring?
This is the kind of question I have

Thanks in advance

Hi everyone,

Just looking at some imput here. My team lost a member recently that was kicked out for personal reasons and we need a replacement. Our party consist of

alch 10/monk 1: melee pouncer/tank/flyer/everything-that-can-be-optimized.

Magus 11: standard non optimized (using bastard sword forflavor)
fighter 11: trip master build with reach weapon. optimized but new player so don't play him perfectly yet.

So we need a support guy and divine if possible, reason for this oracle. I got the approuval of using half elf instead of pure elf for ancient lorekeeper. here is what I have so far.

oracle 11 with time mystery
str 8

(no items done so far)

bonus: skill focus X
1: eldritch heritage (probably arcane not sure yet)
3: improved ini
7: extra revelation
9: extra revelation
11: ???

erase from time
knowledge of the ages
rewind time
temporal celerity
time hop
time sight
(4 + 2 from feats)

no list of spells so far.

Was thinkg about taking quicken for lvl 12 so i can quicken spells lvl 1 and 2 but again nothing confirmed.

Can someone give me some advice on what is missing? and if you got some suggestion for spells on the wiz list (lvl 1-2-3-4) that could be great to switch on my divine side?

Thank you

Sorcerer with a bloodline related to cold spells (boreal?).

That way your player will have less spells to deal with, easier because of spontenous caster and easy-to-pick spells (ice and dispels)

guess thats a no

Title means everything: is it possible with feats or items to use the breath weapon you gain from dragon bloodline/dragon disciple as a swift action?

I was looking in beastiary for quicken spell-like but I don't think that qualify.

Any way possible?

tks everyone!

Quick question: i know with dragon style you can charge in difficult terrain. My question i this: does that work with difficult terrain creates with magical effect? Ex:icestorm, entangle, volcanic storm.

This is not clear for me

Thank you

I DM and i'm playing in a separate campaign.

I like To DM because I see and know everything in a matter of speaking. I know when the ambush is starting, i know what happens to that NPC because of X action a player took. I also like to DM because I like to be impressed by them. The players found sometimes some really interesting way to solve problems or fight

Sometime they do dumb things too and thats funny as hell.

The DM is only a reflection of the players so it could be hard sometimes

Very impressive guide. I like how you explain the maths behind the charts.

Best part is the example and comparaison with the linear guild, makes a lot of senses.
I like the exemple with the dragon fight and i would like to ask you some questions:

You choose a green dragon cr 11 and a lot of cr 4. Lets assume 4 pc: how low is "too low" for cr? I know eventually they will swam and hit the mage and other squishy targets but how can you challenge the melee guy with lots if low cr? Do you have advice like: never go below Level - X or take Y creature type...

+1 for encounter with more than 4 pc.

Very nice work, i was planning my final campaign boss fight (2 dragons) but because of this, i will modify my campaign to split the fight (and I got great idea because of this)

Thelemic_Noun wrote:
What's the point of naming them if they won't come when called?

RP and fun only actually. it's not changing anything game wise except that. I don't know if you are a GM or a player but don't you think it's cool when you find a named weapon?

Very nice question you are asking me there.

My PC respect the whole family, my friend's character included. He will not obey him but will take action for the best. If my friend is taking decisions that seems off the track and dangerous I will disobey him. I am his guardian, not a servant.

About his green dragon heritage, he consider that a curse and a gift at the same time. Kind of like Blade would see his half vampire....fight evil with evil. He is confident he can use his dark side of himself to protect but do no trust anyone else with the same kind of power.

An evil dragon is an ennemy. No question here. A good dragon will be respected but my PC will still be careful. Shadowrun style: never make a deal with a dragon.

The polearm: best idea ever. This is gold. I'll find a name for the weapon (because I think +3 weapons and up should always have a name, started a thread in general for that)

Stats wise: I asked the GM if we will encounter some dragons without having too much spoilers (because a full character like this would loose half if we never encounter some) and we should find a lot of them. I don't know if this is gonna be some pure dragon, other DD, some servants, but still so I know that at least some times my dragonbane weapon will be usefull. I think having my full plate is ok, even with the 2 feat tax and still keeping 5% chance of miss (he is not a full caster so I think this is acceptable).

My swift action will ALWAYS be used: When I'm casting at range, the first round a guy in melee is hitting me (spellstoring armor) and when I'm attacking (spellstoring weapon). I'm not afraid of the swift taken for casting since I won't attack in melee AND cast (and I'm not planing on getting quicken metamagic).

Sorcerous strike seems really cool since I'll get breath weapon.

Intimidating prowess was more to pump up that intimidate for outside of combat, But should I simply take the trait from human giving me skill focus at 1-8-16? I would have 2 focus and with 10 rank it would give me +6, same thing as intimidating prowess right now.

Any other suggestions?


So i want to start the discution here. I had a discution with a friend about powerfull magic items and weapons (+3 and higher). I think that for a gm instead of saying: you find a +2 keen flaming longsword, it should be: you find Salamdra, this sword was the blade that killed (insert name here), the white dragon that was ruling over this mountain a century ago. It is a +2 keen flaming longsword.

No need for complexe story (except if your players really likes it).

What do you think?
Am I the only that like this?
Do you have suggestion for names or a website/generator for that?

So I'm in the process to create a dragon disciple. Here is the background first

The goal of this family was a oath versus wyrm, slay evil dragons etc. Dragons are not there anymore in the area (plot twist: they are) but he always knew some day he would have to fight them again. Meanwhile he is serving a noble family as a protector (aka: alfred in batman)

now this is the character I have so far

I liked the idea of having a good character with evil blood inside him, trying to purify himself (I loved the DD guide I've seen so far)

Human Paladin 3/sorc 2 (green dragon and shaitan)/DD 6

Con 16+2+2=20
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 15+2=17

Feat (not sure about all of them right now, this is more a brain storm):
Power attack, elemental focus acid, sorcerous strike, intimidating prowess, arcane armor training + mastery, dragonbane aura

any advice or thing I should look into regarding feat, gear or maybe even something else?

book not allowed: campaign book, 3rd party.
+1 dragon bane spell storing (don,t know what kind of weapon yet)
+2 spell storing mithril full plate
Cloak resist +2
Ring of prot +2
Belt +2 str/con
Robe arcane heritage

In fight this character is using acid spells (or spells switched to acid) to range ennemy until they close in, where he takes the fight in melee. Because of that, I was thinking some kind of reach weapon to gain, sometimes, a free attack vs the attacker with no reach, or even brace againts charge.

Out of combat: he is the protector, not lawfull stupid paladin but LG vs the noble family (another player is playing one of them, bard 7/fighter 4) so I protect their interests. He is NG so it should be ok, if they tend to switch true neutral, I'll still be LG versus them (we got no prob in my game about alignement for paly regarding a code and not necessairly vs laws or good in general)

DISLCAIMER: for balance reason, I'm not looking for a DPR race or too much optimization. I know I got 2 dumb stats, no prob it fits how I rp him anyway but its more about the general flavor.
in fight: this character

I would suggest half elf then to be pretty (part elf) an efficient with +2 cha (half human)

Great suggestion here with the feats
Dragon breath is great for damagr and when needed to go around immune fire type
Max bluff for the fluff of the beautiful lady that, when pissed, can burn your house
She could take half dragon half (insert something that change elemental damagr to something else) if you don't lile splashing in admixture wiz for 1 level
Rods...lots of them...bring ALL the rods!

P.s. Bring resist fire in case she is not happy about you having your new sword ;)

Aaaaaahhhhhh thank you....makes a LOT more senses now.
Thanks to all of you

If uou are right, that means i can buff him with every spells i know, no matter the range of the spell

Thank you gor the quick answers. But part you mentionned what I understand is: if the spell got limits (humanoid only for exemple) you can bypass the rule.

But the first section mention that only spells with the range "you" qualify for that bypass. From my understanding, if enlarge would have a range of "you" or "personal", it would be ok.

Is it just me?

Hi everyone. Let's make a long story short since i'm on my cellphone right now: I'm a sorcerer with an animal companion of a druid. I know share spell let me cast self spell on him (exemple mirror image) and also let me bypass rules that would limit the type of person affected.


By searching forum I might be missing something. It seems players use enlarge person for their animal companion (or eidolon). Enlarge person is a touch range, not "you" or "personal".

Is it working or not?

Thank you for the answer for pounce

The questions that is more curious (i knew he would be really strong for damage) is for bonus he can get on skills. He named +30 spell craft stealth and perception

Just to clarify: im not the dm only a player. I dm another campaign and i would be scared with that character....not for damage but more on the skill bonus


Is it just something i don't understand or I should be asking more questions

I don't have the character sheet and this is why i wanted to know. Im not familiar with alchemist. Here is just some possibilities:

Is it possible he mixed vivisionnist with beastmorphing of some sort?
That would explain the pounce.

Is it possible that there is some sort of beastshape mutagene?

He started fight 1 with a mutagene injection
Then he only punched trough things for 2 fights in a row.

Before fight 1 we sneaker on a group and used 2 invis for massive stealth bonus (+20 moving or +40 not moving) and he had similar amount with some sort of potion.

He also had around 45 in perception because of something else coming from alch.

I don't want to ask for his sheet yet don't want to upset him, but as a gm in another game i think its ok for me to ask him some serious question

Maybe it should be in advice or rules but lets ask anyway

We are a new game starting at level 11 and one of us is playing alch (vivissionist) 10/moms 1.

I know that build can pump serious damage and charge and pounce....but he seems to use mutagene and/or extract and/or discovery giving him solid bonus in stealth, spellcraft and perception. By serious i mean +30.

Lets say you optimize at the maximum (reason why I post that here) can you pump a boist like this? For 11 hours (his words)

His mutagene also seems to be for hours.

I got no problems with a very strong character (im playing an oracle/sorc/mt so lets face it I won't deal damage) but it seems scary because 1- its veeery strong and 2- the guy can optimize well and it seems big.

Thank you.

No 3rd party btw and no campaign book

Lot of info missing but lets brainstorm here

Paladin with teamwork feat (inquisitor maybe even better)
Some sort of caster with shield other

Depends also for the rest of the team

I'm not a big fan of the whip build because of all the feats.

If you want to battlefield control with EK and do some damage with combat reflexes, i would suggest something standard with reach (polearm, lucern hammer is my favorite...) that way with battlefield control you will force people to come for you and you'll get free attacks with the reach (enlarge even better, i would even get permanency enlarge and a ring of counterspell with dispel in it to be sure)

MechE_ wrote:

The OP has hit on many things that bother me about recent FAQs. On the brightside, those arguing for PF 2.0 are getting their wish... slowly.

Another point - As a DM, if you don't pay attention to the boards, you will have players showing up at your table trying to do things that just straight up were NOT the normal X months ago. This can make for uncomfortable situations where players expect something to be allowed "because it's in the rules" but leaves DMs feeling bombarded with something that is not any part of the rules they're familiar with...

I think changing something like this as a "oh yeah, by the way..." part of an FAQ is bad form.

Disclaimer: this following statement is only regarding homebrew and NOTHING to do with PFS.

What kind of DM is getting this kind of surprise at a game? I know the general build of all my pc, the players even ask me for advices and before the game, I ask a copy of their sheet to double check everything is legit + be sure to know what they can do to ensure maximum fun. Not that im a good DM but if the DM is getting a surprise the day of the game, there is another problem.

Am I wrong?


Gnome with pyromaniacs get produce flame, coming from domains spells from clerics. But i can't find a way to get the arcane AND the divine at the same time

One thing to note here: if the players know exactly that this campaign will be about slaying dragons, They will create characters in consequences....

So that means that the fights vs dragons could be higher CR.

Exemple: favored ennemy dragons, order of the dragons, dragon bane weapons.....all these things that a player in regular game will not prepare 100% of the characters to fight but in a specific campaign......well it's a different game :)

So usually I'm playing spell casters (arcane most of the time). For the first time, I'm going with a barb and was looking at what I could buy.

I was planning on getting some permanency spell on me and while I was looking at the list, I wanted some opinions:

How often do you see that spell in your games?
is it common?
Is your DM the kind of guy to spam that dispel magic?
Is it mostly a tools for DM to guard stuff (like permanent prismatic sphere or stinking cloud) or do players use them also?

I really like the idea of rod of wonders in a sword or something like that.

I could make the king some kind of eldritch knight with that. Interesting

I guess i should be more clear.

The 5% rules here is that the bad guya got some kind of controle over the random effect.
My concern is since i never played with rod of wonders, is it too strong to apply the same 5% for that random effect?

And should that affect the cr?

Hi everyone,

First of all, if you are one of my players, time to run away from this poll RIGHT NOW..

Ok i'ts good?


Let me just explain you the set up of the game right now. My team was supposed to get an item back from a custom made extra planar plan. Part of the features (and the important part here): Wild magic.

Each time my players cast a spell, they roll for the result. the bad guys is 80% spellcasters from different classes. Since they are native from the plan, I ruled that they roll too for wild magic effect BUT can change the result by +/- 5%.

Meanwhile: I got a new player (new to table RPG) that is gonna enter as a lvl 11 Wizard (yes, I admit, as a first experience, the level + the class is not the easiest way to start). Now to make him fit in the story, he will be able to cast with NO wild magic and will be hold captive (for THAT reason, since even the king cannot control it).

Now For the final showdown, the king himself will be there. Not sure of stats except that he will be a caster holding a Rod of Wonder (REALLY thematic here, it's gonna be the king,s scepter).

This fight is a boss encounter

So finally: here is my questions.
1- Should I give the king the same "power" to limits the wild magic using the rod as the standard guys (like 5% +/- or even change it for 10%)
2- What kind of CR should I adjust this (king + personnal guards) considering that he will have adjustment for the rod but at the same time, I will have 1 spell caster that will not be affected by wild magic.
3- Should I give the wild magic "control" only to the spell from the list of the king, or apply it on the rod also

P.S. here is the team:
optimized archer ranger (celestial armor: he can fly if needed)
average paladin. no optimization here, but he got high save (like all paladins)
first time wizard support
unkillable cleric (seriously...don't try)
dragon style monk with lots of strenght.

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