Sounds like it is worth getting both then. Still, I want the map however I have to get it. SoA won't be out until around then either.
Although Chuck said late 2014, I personally think it is more likely to be early 2015. In any case, SoA has to be released first. If it slips for any reason, so does the campaign setting.
I really excited about the Lost Lands setting. This is really the one and prime that brings together Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar, Stoneheart Valley, Razor Coast, and Sword of Air.
I was speaking with Greg Vaughan at NTRPG Con last June. The idea is the campaign setting ties into the adventures. Greyhawk was a skeleton with no direct ties to the adventures in the product itself. However, the level of detail would never be as great as the Forgotten Realms or Golarion.
The other element is that the Lost Lands would become the official setting for Swords & Wizardry, an essential element for any fully supported RPG. This setting in combination with free rules pdf should help generate more interest for this system.
I don't run S&W nor do I plan to. If I want to play OSR I have my old 1E books and even my old white box. Not my cup of tea. Tell me what you can do for us Pathfinder folks.
As this is a Sword of Air thread, and SOA will be put out in both versions Pathfinder and S&W, I think you already have your answer. Frog God Games fully supports Pathfinder RPG. This is a non-issue.
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There have only been a few adventures that FGG have put out that haven't been available for both systems. Most notably Slumbering Tsar is only available for Pathfinder. S&W exclusives are Grimmsgate, Hall of Bones, and MCMLXXV, none of which exceed 25 pages. So I think it's fair to say that FGG is providing pretty great support for BOTH systems.
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@Brvheart: I'm not one of the frogs but
a) that came across as kind of rude. Did you mean it to?
b) they're also doing a PF version of Sword of Air. Does that not qualify as something they can do for you Pathfinder folks?
Brvheart/Greg is from the old NG boards, so I'm sure that's not his intent. He's just more interested in their PF products.
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There have only been a few adventures that FGG have put out that haven't been available for both systems. Most notably Slumbering Tsar is only available for Pathfinder. S&W exclusives are Grimmsgate, Hall of Bones, and MCMLXXV, none of which exceed 25 pages. So I think it's fair to say that FGG is providing pretty great support for BOTH systems.
Also, by my count, S&W players are owed about 850 or so more pages of exclusive material.
:P
I understand that FGG supports both S&W and pathfinder and does a good job doing both.
There have only been a few adventures that FGG have put out that haven't been available for both systems. Most notably Slumbering Tsar is only available for Pathfinder. S&W exclusives are Grimmsgate, Hall of Bones, and MCMLXXV, none of which exceed 25 pages. So I think it's fair to say that FGG is providing pretty great support for BOTH systems.Also, by my count, S&W players are owed about 850 or so more pages of exclusive material.
:P
I like your thinking. :)
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Regardless of what the stretch goals are and whether or not they add value for me I hope the KS raises as much as possible so the frogs can continue to grow and deliver more of the awesome material I've come to expect from them, that should totally go without saying.
Ps. The free sw rules thing is more community building focused than a "reward" per se
That is exactly how I perceived it.
Ps. The free sw rules thing is more community building focused than a "reward" per seThat is exactly how I perceived it.
Same here, I rarely post here because my interests are with S&W community. However, I still consider Pathfinder community to be a kindred spirit that wish continuing growth and success. For me personally, Pathfinder is more of a mathematical exercise in tinkering.
I think of game style as a two-axis continuum which make up play for all role-playing games. One axis is the abstract-simulation and the other is gamist-narrative. Going to any extreme on any one axis and you no longer have a RPG. For example, pure gamist is a board game while pure narrative is group storytelling. Pure abstract would have no sense of realism and pure simulation would bog a game down in minute details for the sake of perceived realism. This leaves a lot of open interpretation to create multiple play styles with any given RPG ruleset.
S&W (as well TSR era D&D) is the best for personal GM play style while still open to play other styles as the opportunity presents itself.
Is this a campaign setting, something similar to an adventure path, or a combination of the two?
Is this a campaign setting, something similar to an adventure path, or a combination of the two?
Since no one has responded, I shall try to clarify.
Primarily, this is an adventure that is part of the Lost Lands like Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar, and Razor Coast. SoA has a logo on it for the Lost Lands as the run is made for the campaign setting release. It is part of a world which at this time has a map that is sight unseen; however, each of these mega-adventures has campaign setting material in it.
What is strange is that the standard is the campaign setting is released first and then adventures support it. Necromancer and Frog God have a rich history of adventures that are tied and can be tied together but no campaign setting.
Since this is being done in reverse, Greg* is going to have the momental task of making sure everything is consistent. After the Lost Lands campaign setting release, future adventures will be written to maintain canon consistency with the setting.
It almost goes without saying this is not ideal which is why the campaign setting is written first. However, the great advantage is that is the campaign setting would have direct links and ties to the adventures themselves that other campaign settings do not have until a second revision or later.
*Somehow I guess this will accomplished as he goes to medical school. He is currently in his second year and then will be entering rotations.
It only seems backwards if one does not know the history. Most of the adventures were written with a campaign setting in mind, Bill always used the Wilderlands but wrote them to be generic. Problems since 2008 with Judges Guild have forced them to no longer use that setting, officially anyway, so they have had to come up with one if their own. That and a lot of things were written with different setting in mind by the individual authors, Hawkmoon for example. I think it is good that they are coming up with their own now and look forward to it! I personally had been using The Scarred Lands as it was a sister setting and fit the material well. I like to rotate settings every three to four years myself.
I know the history and it was workable when Necromancer had permissive rights to Wilderlands and the Scarred Lands; it is now backward with Frog God Games which is why it is going to take some time to write with both clarity and consistency. Some products will not move with the setting; the excellent foreword to Stoneheart Valley gives an explanation. Even without the IP problems, the Lost Lands setting is the superior solution.
I know the history and it was workable when Necromancer had permissive rights to Wilderlands and the Scarred Lands, both of which are out of print with no foreseeable print future;You might want to reconsider that statement. :)
Well, will wonders never cease! No matter how dead something appears, there is always hope of resurrection. Also, pdfs can still be obtained from DriveThruRPG. Let me edit my original statement.
I am excited about the news about the Scarred Lands, but see that as a separate issue. I know about things appearing dead. JG was pretty dead from 1985-1999 until we resurrected it! Now it is back on life support.
Necromancer Games never had permissive right to The Scarred Lands at all. Necromancer games was printed by the publisher of Scarred Lands (Sword & Sorcery Studios, a part of White Wolf Publishing), but that's where the connection ends.
The confusion comes from Clark Peterson and Bill having worked on some of the other S&SS materials. Clark was involved with the first Creature Collection and I think both Bill and Clark were involved with the first Relics & Rituals. They weren't involved as Necromancer Games, however.
I was always curious about that book with the party surrounded by bat-winged wolves on the cover. That is awesome fantasy art. That was scarred lands, right?
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Just used my Google-Fu to find that one for you, Grimmy.
It's Wilderness & Wasteland: Scarred Lands Encounters.
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What is strange is that the standard is the campaign setting is released first and then adventures support it. Necromancer and Frog God have a rich history of adventures that are tied and can be tied together but no campaign setting.
I don't know that that's really true. There was a ton of Greyhawk modules produced even before the 32-page folio came (while there was Supplement I: Greyhawk, it was a rules supplement with no setting information). The same is true of Dragonlance and the best-Forgotten Realms. Ravenloft was a generic-setting module that TSR decided to turn into it's own setting.
More recently, the Midgard setting had been going strong for years before it got a campaign setting book. And even Golarion had a bunch of APs and modules out of the gate before the 3.5 campaign setting book came out.
If anything, putting out the campaign setting first is the lesser used approach.
Well, we all have our opinions about what makes a good campaign setting. I ran the Scarred Lands up there with the best of them. Wilderlands and Wastelands was a great support product giving encounter information for the setting. What one reviewer didn't like about it was what I did, it was made for the Scarred Lands. SSS did an excellent job on a setting that did not depend on magic to provide interesting and challenging adventure ideas.
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We passed 400 backers, which means the Swords & Wizardry Complete rules pdf is FREE FOR LIFE!
Well my players like free so maybe this will get some of them to try it sometime!
And Swords & Wizardry Complete is now free on Paizo.com. :D
And Swords & Wizardry Complete is now free on Paizo.com. :D
Downloaded.
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And Swords & Wizardry Complete is now free on Paizo.com. :D
thanks Liz, that's faster than we got it changed on our site! lol
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What is strange is that the standard is the campaign setting is released first and then adventures support it. Necromancer and Frog God have a rich history of adventures that are tied and can be tied together but no campaign setting.I don't know that that's really true. There was a ton of Greyhawk modules produced even before the 32-page folio came (while there was Supplement I: Greyhawk, it was a rules supplement with no setting information). The same is true of Dragonlance and the best-Forgotten Realms. Ravenloft was a generic-setting module that TSR decided to turn into it's own setting.
More recently, the Midgard setting had been going strong for years before it got a campaign setting book. And even Golarion had a bunch of APs and modules out of the gate before the 3.5 campaign setting book came out.
If anything, putting out the campaign setting first is the lesser used approach.
This is an interesting chicken-egg debate. Greyhawk existed first as Gygax's campaign world before it first saw print in 1980 (0e supplement was little more than a name). His creative period of module writing which included Hommlet, Giants series and Descent series was published first in late 70s but it wasn't created first.
Forgotten Realms was created first as replacement for Greyhawk in 1987 before any significant adventures were released. One of earliest 1e modules was N5: Under Illefarn in 1987 as a original publication and the first to carry the Forgotten Realms logo.
Dragonlance started as series of modules in 1984 that was almost a self-contained campaign setting with different feel than Greyhawk with diminished divine power. A consolidation and expansion of that material first occurred in Dragonlance Adventures in 1987. The DL series of modules practically built the campaign setting.
1e I6: Ravenloft (1983) was significantly different that the campaign setting with rule sub-system that was created in 1990 during 2e. Castle Ravenloft, Strahd, and land of Barovia were the primary points of overlap.
As to other systems created after Y2K like Golarion, I have little doubt there was detailed unpublished notes on these settings before any adventures were published.
In contrast, both the name "Lost Lands" , the map, and the organization of its lands are brand new compared to the age of the adventures preceding them. The greatest amount of background material is given in Slumbering Tsar, Stoneheart Valley, and Rappan Athuk. It will not a trivial task to bring together the disparate material from the other adventures. However, I have great confidence because of Greg's meticulous nature for consistency.
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Just used my Google-Fu to find that one for you, Grimmy.
It's Wilderness & Wasteland: Scarred Lands Encounters.
Wow Chuck. I was still on the fence for this KS but after that friendly gesture you guys have my pledge. I'll be in at the last minute, broke til Fri the 15th.
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And Swords & Wizardry Complete is now free on Paizo.com. :D
Thank you FGG and thank you Liz!
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The Swords & Wizardry Complete Rulebook is now also offered as a free extra on all orders at the d20pfsrd store fyi
That's very cool, thank you for that John!
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Wow Chuck. I was still on the fence for this KS but after that friendly gesture you guys have my pledge. I'll be in at the last minute, broke til Fri the 15th.Just used my Google-Fu to find that one for you, Grimmy.
It's Wilderness & Wasteland: Scarred Lands Encounters.
Damn, that's awesome! I like that just being me got us a sale. :)
I backed Razor Coast and am backing this one, so I'm a Frog God guy and realize how much stuff you are putting out nonstop.
But I hope the Northlands Saga modules don't get lost in the shuffle. It's been a long time (what, a year?) since the last release. They are top quality adventures in a rather less commonly used setting. Kenneth Spencer is doing some very good stuff.
I'm glad the NS will be a part of The Lost Lands. But I hope you folks can push out a new module soon.
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I backed Razor Coast and am backing this one, so I'm a Frog God guy and realize how much stuff you are putting out nonstop.
But I hope the Northlands Saga modules don't get lost in the shuffle. It's been a long time (what, a year?) since the last release. They are top quality adventures in a rather less commonly used setting. Kenneth Spencer is doing some very good stuff.
I'm glad the NS will be a part of The Lost Lands. But I hope you folks can push out a new module soon.
The entire rest of the series and the Campaign Book are being compiled into one hardback for release next year.
The entire rest of the series and the Campaign Book are being compiled into one hardback for release next year.
...But I hope the Northlands Saga modules don't get lost in the shuffle...
Wow! That's going to be the standard other viking/frozen wastes books are measured against. Most cool. Congrats to Ken.
Hey Skeeter, Bill or Chuck,
I have a question about the add-ons. If I want to add the print issues of Razor Coast and Stoneheart Valley to my pledge do I add the amount to my pledge now or do I wait til the Kickstarter ends and you send out the survey?
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You can usually do either, depending on if you need some time between the two or if you want it all to be charged at once.
But wouldn't placing the add-ons to his pledge drive up the total for the KS - thus unlocking more goals and maybe attract more pledges (re:deal too good to pass up)?
I have no real idea, I was just assuming this about KS.
As soon as I make my credit card payment this weekend, I'll be backing. I shuffled some "wants" around and put some other purchases off until next year (*Cough* Pathfinder products *cough*) so I could back this one.
LOVE Rappan Athuk and Slumbering Tsar, so I couldn't miss this one.