Hi!
At GenCon 2013, I became pretty enamored with Pathfinder. So much so that I'm 99.997% sure that Pathfinder will replace my groups fantasy RPG experience. But as my players get solid RP experience in story driven game systems (IE - L5R, Shadowrun, WOD) I as a the god of the gaming table am finding it difficult to look at fantasy RPGs as anything other than the linear dungeon grinds that they end up becoming.
I'm want to use Pathfinder to bring that experience to my group, but with whole bevy of books that are out their for Pathfinder I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed on where to start developing my store. I was hoping that my fellow gods of the gaming table might be able to dispense with some friendly ideas and advice on where might be some good places to begin a character driven - story driven campaign.
Also, what's a good way to expose my players to the setting and mythos of the Pathfinder world?
If you like the setting, use it with a different game. D&D/Pathfinder has the reputation of being a fantasy dungeon crawl because the game is set up for that specific circumstance. The non-combat systems, especially skills, are weak, easily the weakest part of the system.
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Welcome to the fold, Rob. I am not entirely sure about your group, but from my own experience, the real difference between a role playing experience and a gaming experience is how choices matter. I have always felt life entered the story at the same moment a character's choice actually shifted the course of events, however small. I suggest looking into Ultimate Campaign for the ability to have a breathing economy that players can wreck or repair or otherwise manipulate, towns they can invest in or even start, and some other tangible ways of interacting with the background world.
Campaign setting is all up to you, whether you choose to create your own world or use a canned setting. Mythic Adventures empowers higher advancement and stronger power-house type characters. If you liked Exalted this is kind of the same scale. It is not Epic Characters from old D20, it is an alternate advancement mechanism which starts your characters off at Level 1 and then allows them to accrue power at a different rate. I see mixed feedback about this and have not tried it personally.
For fleshing out characters early on I suggest looking into Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat for the options it opens up. In many cases these supplements provide options for holes that exist in current class dynamics from the core rule book. Similarly the Advanced Players Guide gives you some nice options in classes that function distinctly different from what you get out of the core classes.
When it comes to crafting your encounters and the world you probably will not need much help beyond the forums, but when you pick up the Bestiary and subsequent volumes I'd recommend doing it via PDF. It will save you money and it's not content you will need to flip through during an adventure if you did your prep correctly.
So, to sum up my advice on purchasing:
Buy in print: Core Rule Book, Ultimate Campaign, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Advanced Player Guide
Buy in PDF: Bestiary I - III.
I would start with Core Rule Book, Ultimate Campaign, and any Bestiaries that you want.
Introducing Players:
If nobody has done d20 before, check out the First Steps modules. If most everyone is familiar with D20, look at the Season 4 and Season 5 modules. In my experience the earlier seasons of adventures were not as well-designed and many lessons were learned that improved the later seasons significantly. Especially regarding encounters.
Personally, I would suggest just jumping into your own game. Design your story, and then flesh out the rules and details as you get more confident. I definitely suggest running one or two different storylines up to level 7ish to give yourself and your players a chance to see how the characters they design play out. I would accelerate leveling during this process (maybe 1 in 2 or 3 games) in order to reduce the duration. I have used this period to tell prologue elements of my main story so that time wasn't wasted and to provide a level of investment to the overall story when the "main" characters began later. I felt this was helpful in every system I've tried that was numerically complex with significantly different options. Both the players and I got a lot out of the grace period in terms of obtaining better system mastery and comfort.
Some other tips:
Get very familiar with the keywords.
Have quick reference to special abilities and conditions.
Know your reach templates and the area of effect templates.
Spend extra time going over movement, sight, environment and hazards.
The online references D20PFSRD and PRD are invaluable.
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If you like the setting, use it with a different game. D&D/Pathfinder has the reputation of being a fantasy dungeon crawl because the game is set up for that specific circumstance. The non-combat systems, especially skills, are weak, easily the weakest part of the system.
This is fair criticism, but it is worth noting that while the skill system is primarily tacked onto the incredibly detailed combat mechanics, it is enough to support good story telling, which should be all you need.
As a player, I can say the basics can be picked up quickly. It was kinda helped by me becoming kind of obsessed for a while with the game.
But yeah, guide them to the prd and the d20pfsrd. It's awesome not to be obliged to buy all the books to have access to the rules. There's so much diversity that you can make characters as mechanically unique as they are unique in personality.
There are a few issues though: the pathfinder rules are quite easy to abuse. As long as your players are playing in good faith, this shouldn't be a problem. But rules arguments can be common.
This is my opinion as a player. I'd love to try to DM eventually, but I admit the sheer diversity of rules are intimidating.
Edit: Also, while the "roleplaying" aspect of the game isnt the best developed, it's better than in a lot the other games I've seen. So many others are just a combat simulator. At least here you have a well developed skill system to help you along in non combat situations.
I'll second going to http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ and seeing what there is to be seen.
Some advice for tweaking the game would be to get rid of xp and just hand out a level every three games/milestone/goal.
If you want to buy all the books, the Inner Sea World Guide has enough countries to give you an idea "in cannon" but otherwise, go with any fantasy thing you like.
For starters, the best way to get that RP experience as opposed to a dungeon crawl is to not send your party to dungeons ;)
Have them work mostly in an urban setting, interacting with NPCs. Maybe start them off solving mysteries and doing troubleshooter-type stuff at lower levels, then have them come to the attention of the Powers That Be and bring them into politics as they grow in stature. Which reminds me, get Ultimate Campaign for it's kingdom management rules (which work equally well for managing, say, a barony) and have them eventually earn titles for their service and given their own lands. I always tend to take my inspiration here from Test of the Warlords.
Finally, 3.5/PF's skill system is still a heck of a lot better than it's successors. However, I've recently been toying with replacing it with BRP's percentile skill system and giving per-session skill improvement checks.
Edit: Also, while the "roleplaying" aspect of the game isnt the best developed, it's better than in a lot the other games I've seen. So many others are just a combat simulator. At least here you have a well developed skill system to help you along in non combat situations.
Whoah, what? What other RPGs are you talking about? I've never seen an RPG with a worse skill system or greater focus on combat than Pathfinder, except for other versions of D&D.
Rise of the Runelords offers many roleplaying opportunities. I highly recommend it as a Pathfinder Adventure Path.
If it's Adventure Paths (AP) go for Council of Thieves.
Whoah, what? What other RPGs are you talking about? I've never seen an RPG with a worse skill system or greater focus on combat than Pathfinder, except for other versions of D&D.
Phoenix Command.
Try to get your players into the story at the beginning, as doing it later down the line will be difficult. I wouldn't focus on introducing them to the lore behind the world itself more than their characters need to know, at first. Instead, make it a personal experience where they can see something through their character's perspective. If you can do that then their interest in the lore itself should naturally appear.
The fact that many gamers DONT game beyond a dungeon bash is down to the gamers, not the system.
Pathfinder doesnt have to be about dungeon bash. The system can easily support other types of games. Much like Vampire or Cyberpunk...just because most groups tend towards a certain type of story by inertia/tradition, it doesnt mean thats the only way to play.
Rise of the Runelords offers many roleplaying opportunities. I highly recommend it as a Pathfinder Adventure Path.
This is a pretty reasonable recommendation ( albeit up to a point.IMO )
Certainly the first two scenarios in the path (Burnt Offerings, Skinsaw Murders) have a mix of dungeons AND some interesting roleplaying, and are a good intro, particularly if you take time to establish NPCs.
The third is ok, but the fourth and fifth, not so much. The fifth, Sins of the savoirs, is just one long dungeon bash.
Curse of the Crimson Throne deserves a mention too.
In the end, Pathfinder is a perfectly servicable roleplaying system. You can tell most types of stories with it . The skill system is "tacked on" ? Works ok for me, and I GM using all sorts of systems. If anything, my objections to the game resolve around having straightjackets (called Classes and Alignments.) ,but even then it works ok.
I ssuggest getting THE INNER SEA /Golariion book. It contains vignettes of each area/country on Golarion, and some sections are very well written and interesting, and should spark plenty of ideas for most GMs.
My suggestion for a scenario or campaign ? Personally I'd revamp "Masks of Nyarlathotep" for Pathfinder, and set each chapter in a different area of the inner sea. That way you have a combination of a genuinely great campaign and a great background.
Alternatively, if you're a WoD fan, take one of your favourite WoD adventures and ...ah..revamp ...it by replacing vampire clans with political factions within Cheliax. That will still work extremely well.
if you are comfortable with the rules... I really prefer making my own campaigns and worlds. Who knows the feel of what you are trying to do better than you? Of course this takes time and creativity. It allows you to customize the world and campaign to your needs as a GM and for the party and what they want to do/accomplish.
You should look at this one:HoL.
Oh, come on, joke games can't count.
Phoenix Command.
Touche, though calling that an "RPG" only works in the loosest sense. It's more like a tedious tactical combat simulator.
I would recommend a test drive with your group. Use the prd online to access rules and build characters. Then either try creating an introductory adventure or using a published one. Hollow's Last Hope is a solid starting adventure with rping potential or you could try looking at the PFS scenarios (I quite like Mists of Mwangi, I've used that a couple of times to introduce people to the game).
See what your group thinks. It may not be to their liking as PF or 3.5 is pretty big on mechanics as opposed to more flexible rules-lite systems such as Savage Worlds.
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The best part about role playing is that you do not need any rules for it
Offically...all of you...COMPLETELY ROCK!!!
I've totally got some really great tips here from everyone....totally stocked!
First, if you want RPing, you need a solid story arc. Check out Shackled City Adventure Path. Thats 3.0ish but you can find it online as a PDF. It starts at level 1 and goes 20. It is based around one city, more or less.
After reading this thread about being a dungeon bash, Falcon's Hallow has RPing . . . .well all thats true if the DM and players are willing to RP. I think a lot of adventures are influenced by WoW and online linear gaming. Grinding xp, etc. When was the last time you RPed online?
There are three kinds of linked adventures. It was published in the Second Edition, not sure which book.
1: Linear, no deviation. Think a dungeon crawl.
2. Linear events but with different outcomes. With some tweaking, SCAP can be like this. The modules G1/2/3 D1/2 are like this. For instance, it was assumed in Greyhawk Wars that the party failed to defeat the giants and drow. Err, all my ex-party members would say, "We killed that guy!" or "Eclabdra ran out of clones and we imprisoned her soul!". There are discrete beginnings, endings, and victories.
3. Non linear, but you have a story board of events. The characters can drive events in different directions. For instance, if there is a war, they could switch sides. Maybe the good guys lose or some of the bad guys switch sides and the bad guy loses because the entire Scarlet Brotherhood was hired to rub him and his army out.
For RPing, its good to wait and see how the party shakes out. Dynamics are important. If the party wants different things, a lot of RPing is not going to work, and there is ALWAYS someone who gets bored and does something Chaotic Nuetral.
I prefer the 1st Edition Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms settings to Golorion. Just my personal preference. I do like Falcon's Hollow a lot!
The skill system in PF is OK. I like Dark Conspiracy best, both for plots and mechanics, but thats been out of print for a long time. One of my best One Shots is tell people to bring whatever character you want, you will be dead when the scenario ends. Everyone has a great time!