Vampires and their weaknesses?

[Berselius]

Does anyone else think the listed methods to permanently destroy vampires are way to much of a pain in the butt? I mean, having to reach it's coffin before it can bring itself back to above 0 HP can be a real pain (both for the PC's and the campaign's DM if the DM isn't careful and doesn't have maps planned ahead of time).

Am I wrong to think it wouldn't be unreasonable to simply house rule that if you bring a vampire to 0 HP via fire, silver, wood, and holy weapons or spells that the vampire would simply be reduced to burnt ash (aka like the vampires in the Blade movies) and would be otherwise destroyed?

I'm not saying that their couldn't be some Vampiric Bloodlines that could rise again (like if the ashes were touched by moonlight or some sort of necromantic blood ritual was conducted on them) but as it stands I just think it's kinda hard to simply add a vampire into a campaign on the spur of the moment (especially when permanently destroying it involves finding it's coffin within a limited amount of time).

[Zhayne]

This demonstrates one of the problems with a direct translation from folklore to game mechanics ... folklore is filled with outright bizarre stuff.

I don't think that's an unreasonable houserule at all.

[blashimov]

Sure! It all depends on what you want vampires to represent in your game. Mostly when my players run into a vampire it sparks "oh s!@&!"s. They are not spur of the moment.

[Major Longhorn]

Whatever suits you... In fact 2 of my PCs are playing vampires and i'm trying to find a way to fear true death (as they are already dead) ^^.

[Berselius]

So, this is what I ended up coming up with.

Does this look good and solid to all of you?

Or am I missing something via other rules and whatnot?

Defensive Abilities: A vampire gains channel resistance +4, DR 10/magic and silver, and resistance to cold 10 and electricity 10, in addition to all of the defensive abilities granted by the undead type. A vampire also gains fast healing 5. If reduced to 0 hit points, a vampire assumes gaseous form (see below) and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed (it can normally travel up to 9 miles in 2 hours). Additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest, the vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round. The only way to permanently slay a vampire it to reduce it to 0 hit points via damage from natural or magical fire, positive energy, silver weapons, holy weapons and spells, or exposure to water and sunlight (see below). If brought to 0 hit points via any of those sources of damage, the vampire will disintegrate into fine ash and will be truly dead.

Additional Weaknesses: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from mirrors or strongly presented holy symbols. These things don't harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against that creature. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action. After 1 round, a vampire can overcome its revulsion of the object and function normally each round it makes a DC 25 Will save. Vampires cannot enter a private home or dwelling unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so.

Water Vulnerability (Su): Water (both fresh and salt) affects a vampire in the same manner that acid affects most creatures. Water deals 1d6 points of damage to the creature per round of exposure except in the case of total immersion (such as in a deep pool of water) which deals 10d6 points of damage per round of total immersion. An attack with water (such as from a hurled vial or the create water spell) counts as 1 round of exposure unless total immersion is presumed (such as with the tsunami spell).

Sunlight Vulnerability (Su): Exposure to sunlight (both natural and magical) is particularly deadly to vampires. Exposing any vampire to natural sunlight causes 10d6 points of damage per round. Also, exposing a vampire to the light of the daylight spell inflicts 1d6 points of damage per round. Other spells or attacks utilizing magical sunlight (such as searing light or sunburst) deal their normal listed damage.

[Ipslore the Red]

Water vulnerability doesn't make much sense when blood is just a shade under 50% water. What, they feed on a substance that's like acid to them?

[Gilarius]

The big problem with vampires in most rpgs is the way that every folk tale's details get conflated leaving an almost unplayable hodgepodge of a creature.

Vampires from one tale might be vulnerable to running water but not care about garlic or mirrors. Another might be unaffected by sunlight. Still others are permanently invisible.

I tend to pick a particular tale and use a vampire from it for one adventure. The next time the same party might meet a totally different one. This means that they should do some research before fighting one.

[Pizza Lord]

Just as a personal opinion. I don't like it. Vampires are actually really really restricted in a lot of things other than 'The monster that can blend in with society'.

They sleep during the day, get killed by sunlight, can be held at bay by a garlic clove, a holy symbol, or even a mirror, and can't enter a house without permission.

Really, you've just got dominate which can be blocked by protection from evil and the ability to call a swarm. The rest is your basic monster with the exception of being able to turn into mist.

If you want the vampires to be easy to destroy, that's fine, but the problems I have with what you've suggested is:

Destruction at 0 hit points if the damage is X, Y, or Z.:

Let's say he has 102 hit points. You beat 100 points of damage into him with any attacks and spells you want and then as long as that last 1 damage is from any one of a large list of common things, it's over?

Sunlight, positive energy, holy weapons, silver, fire (magical or natural). He could be 'resistant' to everything you've hit him with for 100 hit points, and then you burn him with a candle or hit him with a torch once. Other than silver (which must be magical) he already has no defenses against any of those attacks to begin with.

If you do not find a problem with that, at least let me suggest making it dependent on the amount of that special damage he took, say more than 70% or 51% if you really want it to be easier, otherwise he mists.

Water acts as acid to vampires.:

You've taken another weakness (being immersed in running water) and really tightened the screws. Now not only running water but all water is basically acid? That means waterskins are lethal weapons, can't go out on dark and stormy nights because it's acid rain, no prowling the sewers, no stagnant ponds or bogs. Does holy water inflict extra damage for being water when used?

Does ice count? What about snow? Does ice storm really messup their day. Normally they'd shrug off the cold, but those hailstones are ice and the area is filled with sleet and more snow.

Sunlight Vulnerability (Su):

Strangely, this is weaker than normal. Maybe that's intended. Normally they get staggered and thus can barely move in time to stop destruction the next round. This one, depending on the damage roll could give a typical 100 hp vampire over 3 rounds (possibly more) with no weaknesses like being staggered.

You've made daylight into yet another weapon. Even though the spell is specifically listed as not being daylight for such purposes, maybe you know that and it's intentional, but you don't point it out as counting as sunlight damage (despite listing it under Sunlight Vulnerability) so anyone dropping a vampire to 0 with it would still cause it to mist. Currently the way it is written, it is just a special damage.

At minimum 5th-level to cast daylight you've basically created a 500 round fire-and-forget AoE damage that is of no danger to anyone but vampires and it could easily just be layered over and over for massive damage at no chance to save or avoid. Imagine if each of 4 PCs only had one object each with daylight, the way spells work that's 4d6 a vampire takes just when they move within 60 feet of him. You can rule that only one such spell applies (I don't think that's usually the case) but it's really powerful makes no sense for them to be weak to it.

Other than that, you've turned their weaknesses into Supernatural(Su) abilities, which means that if they are in an anti-magic field or similar effect then they aren't affected by sunlight or water.

There's a difference between tweaking a monster and making it a completely different monster. It's like making a medusa that doesn't turn people to stone, or crystal, or even coral but instead they just get arthritis... slowly... eventually. That's not really a medusa, even if it does still have snakes for hair. And this is no vampire, this is a... waah-mpyre? A wimpyre?

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I mean, having to reach it's coffin before it can bring itself back to above 0 HP can be a real pain (both for the PC's and the campaign's DM if the DM isn't careful and doesn't have maps planned ahead of time).

I guess it sounds nitpicky, I don't mean it to be, but if your real problem is the players having to track the vampire to its lair... that's really kind of the whole point of the vampire's ability. It gets beat... it goes to its lair... the heroes must brave its lair to end its threat. They beat it once, are they scared now that it's helpless for an hour?

Going into monster lairs to end their threat is too 'inconvenient' for the PCs? I get it if you somehow randomly rolled this vampire up and didn't have a castle with multiple towers and dungeon levels planned, but maybe its nearest coffin is just a one room cavern or crypt in the nearby cemetery. At a certain point, we just have to say 'Don't use a vampire that way.' Use a wraith, use a spectre, use a crimson death, use a necromancer who thinks he's a vampire.

And of course, yes. You can house-rule it that way and it's perfectly fine if it works for you.

[Spook205]

I find the opposite is true. The gaseous form moves away so blitheringly slowly (5 ft) that its damn near impossible to 'lose' the PCs and by the point the PCs are at a CR that they should be facing vampires, they have ways of dealing with that sort of thing.

If the PCs contain a summoner, who can call in an air elemental, you can put the vampire gas in a series of several hour long air-elemental spin cycles and he can't even get to his coffin.

I still remember a 2e Ravenloft group (Gothic Earth, but set in the 20s) who ran into Dracula, and defeated him with the 'running water' thing through the aid of a fire engine.

The last thing that the demon king of vampires of Gothic Earth heard was 'HEY DRAC! YOU FOUND THE MARBLE IN THE OATMEAL! YOU GET TO DRINK FROM THE FIREHOSE!!!"

They later went on to deal with the Incan Mummy who could only be damaged by items crafted by the Incans, by collapsing his temple on top of him.

Whether these moments are awesome, or demonstrations of me being a horrible DM as a teenager, are up for determination. But they both indicate that PCs will take advantage of weaknesses, and may do so in manners both impressive and ridiculous.

[Buri]

I played a child vampire in Carrion Crown for a bit. Playing him was fine. Unfortunately, the cleric of Pharasma in our party discovered who he was and she ended up dead and he fled. That was some epic roleplay.