Wasn't happy about Mace's death but at least he died a hero.
I really did like that May was the one to give Daisy her powers in this "reality".
What bothers me isn't Mace dying (It sucks but he went out a 'virtual' hero) but how that affects SHIELD in the real world. I mean he's only had the job, what? A couple of Months? Now he's dead and they'll need a new Director. I mean are we going back to Coulson? Or May, or hell Mack?!
But I do like we see more of exactly HOW AIDA/Ophelia/Viper/Madame Hydra controls Fitz. It's clearly him but obviously being subverted by his need to have a relationship with his father. Clearly, this is affecting his thinking/personality. So in a broad sense, for me, AIDA is running the show by showcasing Fitz making these choices to please a father figure that isn't Coulson.
I love that Daisy is now going full Quake. May HYDRA tremble.
Trip's appearance was a surprise since I didn't read the opening credits. (I rarely do.) But it is a welcome one.
I kind of hope that means we'll get LMDs of Trip and Ward if only because they're sorely missed. (Okay maybe not Ward but certainly Trip)
I am also a little miffed at Coulson since he knows that this isn't real...but at the same time he's Coulson and even virtual people don't deserve Doctor Faustus running their lives.
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Jemma with a hydra history book
"its like facts, evidence, and history doesn't matter at all...
*falls over laughing*
Norse,
Well it doesn't in this world some times. But yes it is interesting how much political commentary got dumped (secretly sort of) into this episode.
Daisy becoming Quake is a game changer, but HYDRA exists beyond the Triskelion. Sans gauntlets (either here or in the real world) she can't afford to do too much in a short period of time. But...that's never stopped her before. I think she might have a bit of a masochistic streak.
But I do like we see more of exactly HOW AIDA/Ophelia/Viper/Madame Hydra controls Fitz. It's clearly him but obviously being subverted by his need to have a relationship with his father. Clearly, this is affecting his thinking/personality. So in a broad sense, for me, AIDA is running the show by showcasing Fitz making these choices to please a father figure that isn't Coulson.
Well...my guess is that Daisy will be the next director. Coulson already referenced that would have been his first choice if Daisy hadn't gone awol at the end of last season
I don't think it's so much that Fitz is only trying to appease his father, more that his father throughout his growing up beat (sometimes literally) most of the empathy out of him.
I'm wondering...if Ward does come back, Fitz will probably be the most sympathetic character to Ward. After all, he knows first hand how messed up a horrible family can make someone, and how different circumstances can make the difference between villain and hero
MMC,
There might be that, Fitz being more sympathetic to Ward...but I doubt that will change the fact Ward was kind of dick. This one...less so.
Daisy as the new Director? I know Donald Trump runs our world but I always assumed MCU had higher standards... I'm not saying I DON'T want Daisy as the Director, but I think she's still got a ways to go to fill out that chair. Plus you know brand recognition still needs work.
Whether or not his Dad beat it out of him, it's clear that relationship which I feel that AIDA/Ophelia/Viper/Madame Hydra controls is the level of Matrix control on Fitz that won't wash off easily.
Daisy becoming Quake is a game changer, but HYDRA exists beyond the Triskelion. Sans gauntlets (either here or in the real world) she can't afford to do too much in a short period of time. But...that's never stopped her before. I think she might have a bit of a masochistic streak.
I don't think that anything that happens to you in the matri...framework short of death happens to you in the real world. She was using her powers for a year plus before she got damaged, so she should be able to go full bore without breaking anything she needs.
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IIRC, in the comics, Quake was the Director of SHIELD for a time. If so, it isn't without precedent.
I liked Mace. I'm glad though that he got to go out as a hero. I do wish that he'd sacrificed himself for something more than what amounts to a bunch of Sims characters.
I think it would be cool if they downloaded Ward into an LMD and we got a good version of Ward back on the show next season, but I'm convinced he's going to sacrifice himself to get Daisy and the others out of the Framework. He made a big deal of telling Simmons that he'd die for Skye. I think this story arc is also the Ward redemption arc that everyone thought we were going to get a season or two ago.
As for the whole "Is the first half better than the second half?" I agree with MMC that having HYDRA instead of the Watchdogs as villains makes more sense. Mostly because HYDRA has been the eternal foe of SHIELD for much of its existence. So while I loved Robbie, his Ghost Rider and the near magic stuff, this shift to me was coming the moment we KNEW that LMDs were going to play a role in this season. This is just that side coming to pass.
It always surprises me how fast opinions change. I remember last year I think when the buzzwords were how boring Hydra was and how people wanted something different that moved BEYOND Hydra.
Personally, what I'm bored with is the inhuman stuff. Hydra's been the big bad for three seasons now, but it's been entertaining. I think the Watchdogs were pretty lame villains... but loved the ghost Rider stuff. I wish there was more focus on the Darkhold... but otherwise this season's been pretty fun for me.
I can totally see them making Daisy director... It's stupid and insane, but I can see them doing it. After all... She got her badge half-way through season 1... went Awol the first half of season 4... So yeah, SHIELD agent for about 2 1/2 actual years. Why shouldn't she run everything.
/bangs head against the wall
And a new thought. AIDA is claiming that this world is real, and that Project Looking Glass is a plot to invade the MCU (Earth-?). What if this is a parallel universe, and the Framework is simply the doorway in? Seems like something that would be within the power of the Darkhold.
Yeah that is how I have been thinking of this. The simulation is just way way way too complex to be a simple, normal, computer simulation. Well within the power of the Darkhold magic.
As for the whole "Is the first half better than the second half?" I agree with MMC that having HYDRA instead of the Watchdogs as villains makes more sense. Mostly because HYDRA has been the eternal foe of SHIELD for much of its existence. So while I loved Robbie, his Ghost Rider and the near magic stuff, this shift to me was coming the moment we KNEW that LMDs were going to play a role in this season. This is just that side coming to pass.It always surprises me how fast opinions change. I remember last year I think when the buzzwords were how boring Hydra was and how people wanted something different that moved BEYOND Hydra.
Personally, what I'm bored with is the inhuman stuff. Hydra's been the big bad for three seasons now, but it's been entertaining. I think the Watchdogs were pretty lame villains... but loved the ghost Rider stuff. I wish there was more focus on the Darkhold... but otherwise this season's been pretty fun for me.
I can totally see them making Daisy director... It's stupid and insane, but I can see them doing it. After all... She got her badge half-way through season 1... went Awol the first half of season 4... So yeah, SHIELD agent for about 2 1/2 actual years. Why shouldn't she run everything.
/bangs head against the wall
Well part of the thing is that they just don't want an experienced person, but they actually want an inhuman involved, to bridge the distrust between enhanced and normal humans. Daisy is perfect for that, and appears to already be a bit of a celebrity in the MCU.
Well part of the thing is that they just don't want an experienced person, but they actually want an inhuman involved, to bridge the distrust between enhanced and normal humans. Daisy is perfect for that, and appears to already be a bit of a celebrity in the MCU.
yeah... but from the absolute beginning of her MCU career she has made a habit of doing whatever the hell she wanted, whenever the hell she wanted regardless of any protocols or chain of command. She's a terrible person for EITHER leadership ability or Buearocracy... Unless the plan is to cripple her by sticking her behind a desk with paperwork...
The paperwork would either be delegated, or not get done. Daisy's not a paperwork kinda gal.
The paperwork would either be delegated, or not get done. Daisy's not a paperwork kinda gal.
Ehhh, Neither is Coulson... but he was awfully happy to give up the big chair and get back in the field. I'm gonna be annoyed if she becomes the director and is still front line fighter of every mission. ALmost as annoyed as I was during the last season of Castle when the police Captain was investigating every crime scene...
I could see May doing a pretty good job. She never liked field work (even though she was great at it) and is capable of that 'big picture' thinking that leaders of things like this need. Provided she doesn't go insane or do something stupid, that could be a new role for her. Especially since Daisy took her place as #1 super-butt kicking superspy last season.
Heck, most of this season had her playing right-hand gal to Mace and keeping all the rest of the agents in line.
I'm with Phantom, while Daisy CAN bridge the divide, I don't see her being an acceptable member due to the fact she a) went rogue and b) has had history of disregarding the rules.
Honestly I think May or Mack are the only acceptable choices in terms of who to put in charge.
Unless there's a complete swerve and some how Jemma gets it...which would be even worse in some ways than Daisy.
I could see Jemma getting the nod. She was set up as having massive security clearance... like one of 3 people who knew the truth about Mace. She's had field training and even infiltrated Hydra for a time...
I'm not sure how great a leader she would be... but at least on paper she should be considered qualified.
Mack? I'll admit I tend to think of his as a glorified mechanic/muscle. He's got some chops and was qualified to oversee YoYo... but I'm not sure people like the president or Ross or Talbot would recognize his credentials.
Phantom,
Well I just keep going back to who of ALL the field team would be qualified to lead what is basically the largest spy agency/Peace Keeping Defense force this side of the Authority. I mean the UN clearly can't do it. But SHIELD? That's supposed to be their wheel house.
So the sneak peak for next week definitely has (spoils?) more info on Framework Ward
So apparently Framework Ward wasn't recruited into Hydra by Garrett from Juvie, but into Shield by Victoria Hand, who told him he could be a good person. That uh...explains quite a bit right there about the personality differences between this and Real Ward. Not being mentored by an utter psychopath does wonders for your personality. Also provides a nice counterpoint to Framework Fitz, given his background in the simulation.
MMC,
I saw that. Also I don't think he WASN'T...where you said he was when a certain non-John Garrett showed up. Merely that other person did and you see the results. Which is WEIRD because if you read the comic book version of that person, it's a complete change from the portrayal we get now in MCU. But that's MCU.
What if this is a parallel universe, and the Framework is simply the doorway in? Seems like something that would be within the power of the Darkhold.
Didn't an earlier episode establish that the Framework was distributed across computer systems worldwide? All that processing power makes sense if you're running the biggest VR simulation ever, but it's less obvious why you'd need it to open a dimensional gate. A lot of power, perhaps, but a lot of computer processing power?
Also, if it's a parallel universe it's not one that can [currently] be entered bodily; it can only be experienced by creating an avatar. If the Framework is a real, solid, alternate reality, is the Darkhold creating a real, solid, alternate body for you over there?
Computer simulation still seems like the simplest explanation.
Damon,
It is a simple one but not sure computer algorithms can explain away so much of what has happened in under what appears to be very limited time constraints. I mean it's only been active, what a few days? Maybe a week at the most?
That's a pretty short time to get that much detail into a simulation EVEN one with that much processing power.
That's a pretty short time to get that much detail into a simulation EVEN one with that much processing power.
its a hard light quantum computer. It makes watson look like einiac.
Big,
Well maybe but that's still seems a little...weird to me.
I'm not saying I'm against this all being a simulation. But it sure feels more...complete for one that's not been up and running for longer than two weeks maybe...
Big,
Well maybe but that's still seems a little...weird to me.
I'm not saying I'm against this all being a simulation. But it sure feels more...complete for one that's not been up and running for longer than two weeks maybe...
it is running an idea it got from the necronomicon though. Crossing into an alternate reality is a legit possibility.
Mmm yeah...Darkhold always did break some rules...
Loved the last episode. I'm a sucker for a good death scene. And watching the real Coulson waking up is fun.
Also, that little smile on Skye/Daisy just before the terragen encapsulates her face.
Mark,
That was a good moment in the episode.
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Well, okay then......
And now we know what at least part of Aida's endgame is. At first, I thought she was going to use the power of the machine to make the world of the Framework real, perhaps supplanting the actual real world. Instead, it looks like she just wants to be a real girl. I can't help thinking there's more to it, however. That maybe becoming a flesh and blood human is part one of her plan, or something.
On that note, her conversation with Fitz, where he asks to go with her - now I'm wondering if we're going to see an evil Fitz in the real world. Maybe have two of them running around. That could be....interesting.
Glad to see May on the side of the angels. I was kind of hoping they'd tell her the truth, maybe try to wake her up.
It was good to see Anton Ivanov again. It'll be cool to see him in action with his new body. I'm guessing he's an LMD, but I wonder if his brain is organic.
And, more than ever, I want to see Framework Ward brought into the real world.
Good, episode, can't wait for next week.
With this new info about Aida's plan, it could go so many different ways. Maybe, just maybe, we could get a character or two back...for real.
Dragon,
Yeah cause I certainly would love to have Trip in charge maybe. Or at least one of the people that could help SHIELD after all this.
As for "Real Girl" AIDA...I just don't see this being just a one time thing. Clearly she wants out her body and also away from her programming. But the same time killing the Framework seems...counterintuitive towards the larger goals she might have.
I dunno.
Good, episode, can't wait for next week.
With this new info about Aida's plan, it could go so many different ways. Maybe, just maybe, we could get a character or two back...for real.
plus maybe a tiny new one.
Unfortunately there is the uncomfortable flip side
As Simmons said; this is Darkhold Tech. When has anything Darkhold ended well for anyone.
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Grant Ward wasn't plugged in, so why did it fix his?
It's probably just a by-product of the changes made by and for others. We know that fixing an individual's regret can have profound changes on the Framework world (May, Fitz), but its also been hinted at (or maybe stated outright, can't remember) that Aida has tinkered with it herself, adjusting some things to fit the overall narrative of "protecting the Framework".
Greenie,
Furd is close about that because apparently when magic cubes REALLY love Red Skulls and use their powers rewrite reality, it makes for people to tell stories that are pretty annoying.
A-zombie,
I always assumed it was a by product but yeah there's that possibility.
Furd,
I'd LOVE to see Cobie Smothers back on TV. She clearly needs the work.
eh...I'd rather see Lance come back, or Trip or GoodWard be on the show full time.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I liked the line where Bashki asked his attractive assistant if she wanted him to take her furniture shopping. They're doing a great job making framework Hydra references to the Trump government.
Now I really want a Trump/Hail Hydra meme.
EDIT: that google search didn't take long
Joel,
It really doesn't.
MCC,
Lance and Bobbi should come back. But will they? That's the question I wonder about at times...
The entire Ward story has been about conflict with Skye. He's rough on her because he's training her... He's evil but still likes her.... He's wearing the face of a traitor but now SUPER-ancient-evil...
Bringing in 'good ward'? I honestly think he's just a little TOO perfect now. He's the brave selfless guy he was supposed to be, and while fun in the simulation I think would get REALLy old in the 'real world'.
I want Tripp back. His death sucked and I LOVED his character. All the old-timey spy gear and the howling commando connection... he was awesome.
I'm curious what Aida's safety plan is when she's 'real'? I mean... she's got this Russian by the leash and he can't kill... I'm gonna be REALLY disappointed if the moment she becomes human, he slips the leash and shoots her in the face. I mean... that's just too obvious. She HAS to have a plan for that.
Phantom,
My guess is she probably has some hidden programming written into his LMD to keep him from shooting her in the face. Of course he wants to shoot Coulson in the face...so...we'll see.
But yes. PLEASE bring Trip back!
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Bringing in 'good ward'? I honestly think he's just a little TOO perfect now. He's the brave selfless guy he was supposed to be, and while fun in the simulation I think would get REALLy old in the 'real world'.
I want Tripp back. His death sucked and I LOVED his character. All the old-timey spy gear and the howling commando connection... he was awesome.
I think GoodWard would have a lot of potential in the real world. I mean, in the simulation, most everyone treats him as a hero. In the real world, he is going to have to deal with sharing the face of a notorious terrorist, who was personally responsible for most of the tragedy in the characters lives over the last 3 years. That's pretty rich fodder for a character arc for a season.
I mean...basically, beyond Madame Hydra, we pretty much are certain to get at least one other person from the simulation being made into a real person. That machine couldn't be more a Checkov's gun.
Tripp: Would return a popular character back to the show, but a character that, other than being really likable, never really had much of any plot arc. He would add some levity back to the show, but not a whole lot more. I actually expect he will take over framework Shield when everyone else leaves
Ward: Lets Brett Dalton finally play a good guy on the show (IIRC he was a bit sad that he ended up being a villain, since he was only told when they were about to film that reveal), plenty of drama potential for the above reasons, and him and Skye/Daisy I think actually have some chemistry, so I can see a really messed up romance angle between the two. May also still be under contract so wouldn't be difficult to bring back in a main character fashion. Cons would be...They already brought him back from the dead once, would they do that again? Also may perhaps be too expected.
Hope: Mack just doesn't seem like he would be super willing to leave the Framework without his child. However would Mack stay on with Shield if he had a young daughter to raise? And Mack's ex is still like...alive. That is going to be a messed up situation to put that little girl in. My gut is telling me that Simmons might try to bring her over, but is somehow unable to or the girl will die in the process.
Evil Fitz: I don't know if that can even work, but there are some pluses to this. Evil Fitz could be a great antagonist for next season, and would allow Ian to play two different characters, which he definitely is capable of doing. On the other hand, again...no idea how this would work with Fitz already a real person effectively. Evil Fitz may also just not work as a villain for a long period of time.