I'm working on potentially going for the Gravewalker archetype for Witch. I do have one small question about their Spell Poppet though.
At level 3, they gain the following ability ~
At 3rd level or higher, a gravewalker can use her poppet to deliver touch spells. After casting a touch spell, as a full-round action, the witch can designate a target and stab a pin into her poppet, delivering the spell as a ranged touch attack. The target must be within range of her aura of desecration ability.
What I'm wondering about this is would I have to cast the spell one turn, holding the charge, and then next turn it is a full round action to stab the poppet? Or, do I cast the spell, and the rest of my turn is spent stabbing the poppet?
I could use a little help on this, and I appreciate all the assistance in advance.
No, you cast the spell as a full round action and get to deliver the touch spell at range to someone inside your aura. Its all done in the same round.
Casting a Spell is generally a standard action, while stabbing the poppet is a Full Round Action. You cannot take a standard and a full round action on the same turn, can you?
I understand the thought behind this question:
"Could an ability really suck that bad where I have to spend two turns just to deliver a touch spell at relatively short range? I must be missing something."
However, you just have to read the ability and take it literally. A great deal of the options in Pathfinder suck, unfortunately.
Oh my bad i missed a comma. Yeah you hold the charge and th3n stab in the following ro7nds.
Yep, it sucks as written (eventhough the punctuation is really bad).
SKR verified that the sucky version applies.
I think changing allowing it as a single full round action is more than reasonable. It is basically a short range spectral hand.
Err its not that bad. It just means you have to stand in place to change /any/ touch spell to a ranged one. Its not like witches get lots of melee attacks as a general rule for it to be an issue. The thing is by doing it this way it is /better/ because you can hold the charge.
Look at it this way, if it ws a single full round action that involved casting the spell /and/ stabbing the poppet. You would cast Chill touch and get... 1 touch with it. Since you cant hold the charge and it would no longer be a held action. Also doing it this way touching somone at range in the following rounds would not be defined. As you have already defined using the spell poppet at range as being part of the spellcasting.
by doing it the way it is in the book, you can cast chill touch then spend multiple rounds stabbing your poppet with the held charge.
Err its not that bad. It just means you have to stand in place to change /any/ touch spell to a ranged one. Its not like witches get lots of melee attacks as a general rule for it to be an issue. The thing is by doing it this way it is /better/ because you can hold the charge.
Look at it this way, if it ws a single full round action that involved casting the spell /and/ stabbing the poppet. You would cast Chill touch and get... 1 touch with it. Since you cant hold the charge and it would no longer be a held action. Also doing it this way touching somone at range in the following rounds would not be defined. As you have already defined using the spell poppet at range as being part of the spellcasting.
by doing it the way it is in the book, you can cast chill touch then spend multiple rounds stabbing your poppet with the held charge.
So it might be slightly useful with chill touch or other multiple touch spells. Only maybe, since it might not fall under the "after you cast a touch spell"-clause.
But other than that, it is spending two rounds on a single spell. In a game where action economy matters, that is pretty bad.
Especially for a witch who almost always is better of spending the move action on cackling.
The standard deliver touch spell with a familiar has a lot more uses.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mx6i?Grave-Walker-Spell-Poppet-Touch-Spells#6
Some Dev commentary here.
Short answer: two rounds!
Keep in mind that the alternative is to risk your spell book, which until recently you had no way to back up, in melee combat.
yeah, given that witches dont have spectral hand on their spell list. the alternative was having your spell book /die/ in combat to deliver a touch spell.
Prehensile hair hex will get your witch a bit of range for touch spells.
The main thing is its a built in extend that works on /any/ level of spell. A full round to stab missy poppet in the eye to make the bad man scream in agony isn't so bad.
Your alternative is meta magic (raises spell Level) or rods which only work a few times a day and can't work past certain levels. They also cost money.
Well, there are some upsides (small, but there).
Since you cast one round, then stab the next you do retain some options.
You could move and cast, or cast and move, on the first round. Might be useful to move your aura to hit the enemy you want.
And since you must cast, then stab, after casting the spell you are holding the charge. So up until you actually declare the full round action to stab, you have the option to deliver it normally or through the poppet.
And of course, a one level dip in wizard, sorcerer, or even Carnivalist Rogue would recoup you a normal familiar. Or you can go the Eldritch Heritage feat route.
I wanted to just hop in here and thank everyone for all your help with this.
Yeah, it kinda bites to not be able to do it in one round, and I didn't imagine I'd be able to. I just wanted to make sure I was sure on everything. :)