A question of balance...


Advice


Ok, so my group is starting a Rise of the Runelords campaign, which I have intentionally read nothing on to make sure it is all new to me.

However, nobody in the group likes to play a healer, as a matter of fact you could go so far as to say the rest of them hate it. So I will be party healer, no problem, I have done it plenty of times.

Here is the issue.

I have a Paladin - Warrior of Holy Light/Hospitaler built, and I think it is a pretty solid build.

The problem is though, the group found the Multiclass Archtypes and really want me to play a Divine Emissary.

Found here.
http://mcarchetype.wikispaces.com/Divine+Emissary

However, not only is that class horribly written, (it gets Paladin spells up to sixth level... yeah all those Paladin 5th and 6th level spells) it is way overpowered in my opinion.

So it has come to this, I am the only healer, I want to play the Warrior of Holy Light/Hospitaler, yet the party wants me to play the broken, overpowered, class found on a website that as far as I can tell was essentially just made from a forum. The GM did say that the class could use Cleric Spells instead of Paladin spells.

So what do you think?


I would tell them I am playing this character, if you want to take over the healer roll, you make a Divine Emissary, =)


I think that you should play the Warrior of Holy Light/Hospitaler paladin that you drew up.

If they're so hot on the Divine Emissary then one of them can play it.

edit: Ninja'd


To the Nine Hells with what they want.

They say "Oh, gosh, I hate playing a healer, so I refuse to do it" and then they turn around and tell you that you must play what they want you to be, even though they won't do it themselves.

Hypocrites, every one of them.

They seem to demand the privilege of playing exactly what THEY want and then they expect to rob you of the same privilege? No, you play what YOU want and they can go jump in a lake.


Have to agree with the others, play what you want to play. You are already doing them a favor with picking up the slack they refuse to, you shouldnt feel pressured to do it the way they want you to as well. If they dont like it, tell them they are free to play whatever class they think will best help the party, you are going to be a paladin.

Dark Archive

Agreed, play the character you thought up and wanted to. If they insist on the homebrew thing they found say "Well if you like it so much, play one! That way we have even more healing, so even better right?".

One note, if you want to focus on paladin healing you might be interested in the Oradin build if you've not seen it before. Essentially it mixes Oracle of Life to get Life Link with Paladin to get Lay on Hands. Every turn Life Link transfers damage from your party to you, then you heal it as a swift action with Lay on Hands, all of the healing with you still able to actually do whatever you want be it fight or cast, etc.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257365


Suthainn wrote:

Agreed, play the character you thought up and wanted to. If they insist on the homebrew thing they found say "Well if you like it so much, play one! That way we have even more healing, so even better right?".

One note, if you want to focus on paladin healing you might be interested in the Oradin build if you've not seen it before. Essentially it mixes Oracle of Life to get Life Link with Paladin to get Lay on Hands. Every turn Life Link transfers damage from your party to you, then you heal it as a swift action with Lay on Hands, all of the healing with you still able to actually do whatever you want be it fight or cast, etc.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257365

I did look at the Oracle Paladin combination, but I am just not sure if a whole 5HP that does not increase will me worth losing 3 levels from my primary class.

If it scaled, like 5HP each per 5 levels or something then it would be great.

The main reason I do not like the Divine Emissary is because I think it is too powerful. Sure it would be a good healer, it is a paladin that loses mercies and a few auras in return (in this case) gets Cleric Spells up to level 6 and some nice bonuses to smiting.

If it matters the rest of the group is:

Skirmisher Switch Hitter Ranger mostly archery
Zen Archer Monk
Blasting Evoker Wizard
Dervish Dancer Bard
And
Well me.

Everyone in the group is an Aasimar.

Hopefully we will make it though the whole Rise of the Rune Lord arc 1 - 20 without pissing off the DM. We have never had a TPK, in the 15 years or so of us gaming but we have had quite a few where the DM got tired of scaling battles and said they quit.


The oracle ability does scale, you can attatch it to more people or the same person multiple times.


Mojorat wrote:
The oracle ability does scale, you can attatch it to more people or the same person multiple times.

I know about the multiple person thing but it does not say anything about it working on the same person multiple times.


I'll echo everybody else here. No one should, ever, both have their cake and be able to eat it too. It's a travesty! If they've forced you to take the role of a healer, they have ZERO right to dictate how you go about doing that.


I have no problem being the healer, I was going to play a Paladin Warrior of Holy Light/Hospitaler anyway.

I just really do not like the Divine Emissary class, is that class really legal in the first place?


Nope. It's a homebrew class, so therefore... yep.


I don't think I can say anything that hasn't been said multiple times already.

And yeah, that class isn't legal unless you ask your GM for permission to use it, it's not part of the official Pathfinder rules.

If in doubt, and you don't have access to all the books, use http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ to check things rather than third party sites.


My response?

"Fine then. I'll make a cleric as a dedicated healer."

"What? Clerics of Zon-Kuthon are highly regarded as battlefield healers!"

Maybe you should find another group (if possible?). This is a team game. You'll be band-aiding a bunch of dpr soloist divas.


Whisperknives wrote:


I did look at the Oracle Paladin combination, but I am just not sure if a whole 5HP that does not increase will me worth losing 3 levels from my primary class.

You only need 1 level of oracle. If you want more than one life oracle ability, then you can spend feat via extra relevation.

And 5 HP per round is enough to smooth out damage spikes. If a friend takes damage, you use life link to heal them for 5 hp, the lay on hands on them. If everyone takes damage, you can use life link + channel + lay on hands on yourself.

It is a very flexible ability.


darkwarriorkarg wrote:

My response?

"Fine then. I'll make a cleric as a dedicated healer."

"What? Clerics of Zon-Kuthon are highly regarded as battlefield healers!"

Maybe you should find another group (if possible?). This is a team game. You'll be band-aiding a bunch of dpr soloist divas.

Or a cleric of Asmodeus:

"Okay, before I can administer any kind of healing you'll need to sign the following waivers, initial here, initial here, initial here for holy blessings, sign the confirmation of alignment, ..."


Charender wrote:
Whisperknives wrote:


I did look at the Oracle Paladin combination, but I am just not sure if a whole 5HP that does not increase will me worth losing 3 levels from my primary class.

You only need 1 level of oracle. If you want more than one life oracle ability, then you can spend feat via extra relevation.

And 5 HP per round is enough to smooth out damage spikes. If a friend takes damage, you use life link to heal them for 5 hp, the lay on hands on them. If everyone takes damage, you can use life link + channel + lay on hands on yourself.

It is a very flexible ability.

With only one level of oracle, I could only life link 1 person at a time. It is one life link per oracle level.

If there was only some other way to get that ability...
To the research

Dark Archive

Whisperknives wrote:

I did look at the Oracle Paladin combination, but I am just not sure if a whole 5HP that does not increase will me worth losing 3 levels from my primary class.

If it scaled, like 5HP each per 5 levels or something then it would be great.

I can understand it might not seem like a lot at higher levels, but think about it a little more. It's 5 hp per party member, per round, for every fight... without you having to do more than a swift action to heal it. Adding it to your other cast heals and your Channeled energy (quickened at higher levels) heals and even over a fight that only lasts say 4 rounds that's an extra 60 potential healing you can do without taking away from spells, etc. It really ups your action economy and that can be incredibly powerful.


Make sure you grab Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy. Great feats in my opinion.


I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate and say if your party (and GM) have given you the go ahead to play a "Broken and overpowered" (I have no clue what it does so I'll take your word for it) class, it might be worth considering.

I mean, how often do you get the party and GM saying they WANT you to be overpowered?


Rynjin wrote:

I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate and say if your party (and GM) have given you the go ahead to play a "Broken and overpowered" (I have no clue what it does so I'll take your word for it) class, it might be worth considering.

I mean, how often do you get the party and GM saying they WANT you to be overpowered?

I did not link it, but the OP has a website for where the class is located.

On top of the overpoweredness of the class in general, I can take cleric spells instead of paladin spells.

I hate fan made classes, they very often have no sense of balance. Also if I play it, I feel it might open the door for more people wanting to play overpowered fan made classes or unbalanced third party classes.


To be fair, the MCA classes are not MEANT to be balanced with regular classes, they're meant to be balanced with OTHER MCA classes. They're kinda like a semi-Gestalt. Not quite as powerful as that but better than normal.


Rynjin wrote:
To be fair, the MCA classes are not MEANT to be balanced with regular classes, they're meant to be balanced with OTHER MCA classes. They're kinda like a semi-Gestalt. Not quite as powerful as that but better than normal.

If that was the plan they failed horribly.

The Divine Emissary and Wizard/Sorcerer one are broken as hell and the rest suck. The Barbarian/Magus is not horrible but not that good.


Play what you want to play. As long as someone maxes out umd and you invest in potions and cure wants, should be good to go. You don't need a dedicated healer.

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