Hey all,
I've been playing a Tiefling, and really like it. I was trying out some different ideas for how to make a feral one, with feats and things supporting claw based attacks.
There's a lot of posts here, but I still have one question that doesn't really seem like it gets answered.
One build idea I have is an alch/barbarian. Beast totem, Feral mutagen, and the Claw or Maws (Claw) trait.
As I add either of the first two, the build seems to make sense, the tiefling becomes more feral, and what I believe happens is that it's hind legs (or feet) become clawed weapons, and allow you to do attacks with them.
When I add the third option, it doesn't make sense anymore. Does it become a 6 fingered man? (a 6 armed tiefling)
Any help would be appreciated (please note, I said I've read many posts here, and while many talk about the legality of it, - as in can you do it legitimately, none really make sense of the the logistics of it)
Also, how does one do a pounce type attack, does the tiefling literally have to jump on the character, in some sort of improvised grapple?
Thanks for your time
I don't believe that is how it works. In fact, I think you are stacking things together that won't stack.
Lesser Beast Totem grants you two (2) claw attacks. When an alchemist takes a Feral Mutagen, she gets two (2) claw attacks AND a bite attack. Instead of stacking to give four (4) attacks, you just add one a new bite attack.
If the Feral Mutagen gave a better set of attacks, you would just use those.
Finally, Maw or Claw gives you either a bite or claw attacks. Since they don't stack, I wouldn't waste all of them.
Hmm,
I can see where you are coming from with this interpretation of stacking, but what basis do you base this opinion on?
If you have the maw or claws heritage feature, you gain two claw attacks. The feral and beast features also say you gain additional attacks, but they don't say this replaces a similar ability.
Many other abilities do say this, however. Take darkvision for example, many abilities that grant it, say it doubles the range if you already have it.
My understanding was if an ability doesn't explicitly say this is how it works, it's assumed it doesn't.
DashLestowe wrote: Also, how does one do a pounce type attack, does the tiefling literally have to jump on the character, in some sort of improvised grapple? You just charge and you get a full attack at the end of it. How you want to imagine that is up to you. Could be a quick flurry with three strikes from an axe or all attacks landing in tangent trying to rip at the foe. No need for fancy CMB or improvised anythings.
Andrew Riebe wrote: I don't believe that is how it works. In fact, I think you are stacking things together that won't stack. They do, you just need the limbs to use them all. Why do you think they wouldn't?
Because logic. If you manage to get two bite attacks, do you think your character grows another head?
Its been established multiple times. When you have a class ability or spell or racial ability that gives you claws those claws are on the hands. If you get another ability that gives you claws. They are still on the hands. They are still on your hands over lapping abilities doesn't move them. With a few exceptions claws on the feet are talons.
Really think about it 5 attacks at lvl 4? Would be unballanced.
Could you post/link a source of reference?
Like what Andrew Reibe did? As you can see in his links, the abilities say "you gain" two claw attacks.
Citing common sense, and unbalanced (in my opinion) are not much more than personal opinions. I'm looking for something a little more definitive.
Look at this thread, same question not really answered:
Beast Totem Natural Weapons
This one talks about natural weapons, and bite attacks:
Making the Feral Barbarian
Unanswered question about ranger ability, and beast totem:
Beast Toem Lesser Question
etc...
Most of the responses say this doesn't make sense, but no one really cites a rule for why it doesn't.
Using an example from the posts above, if I have a tentacle cloak it says tentacles grow out of the cloak, and can make attacks. This is very similar to how the Maw and Claw trait reads.
That said, would you feel that a barbarian with the cloak cannot make tentacle attacks because it doesn't make sense? It seems to me, the barbarian would get both it's normal attacks, and the tentacle attacks.
Try the FAQ from 3 years ago from Lead Designer Jason Bulmahn...
It's pretty much on target with what you're asking.
And, using some common sense actually is a very good way to get to the right answer in many of the stacking ability corner case scenarios you can come up with
I agree, that does seem to answer the question. Thanks.
Can you really expect that to have been found when searching for claw attacks of a Tiefling? Different classes, races, and natural attack.
Though, it did say "generally".
Quote: And, using some common sense actually is a very good way to get to the right answer in many of the stacking ability corner case scenarios you can come up with And, passive-aggressive comments implying that common sense wasn't used, could have easily been omitted.
Magic is weird like that.
More different question. Same Tiefling. Different build.
Tiefling with Maw or Claw (Claw), barbarian with brawler rage feature
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Barbarian Rage power Brawler says if you already have Improved Unarmed Strike, your unarmed strikes do a D6.
The feat Feral Combat Training (Claw) says anything that effects unarmed strikes, also effects the weapon focused natural attack.
Do the "Maw or Claw (Claw)"s also do D6's for damage?
I believe the Vestigial Arm alchemist discovery allows you to make use of "extra" claw attacks. It says the arm doesn't give you extra attacks in and of itself, but IMO I would rule that growing an extra set of claws there would allow you more attacks, since you're giving up discoveries/feats.
Day after thought:
Does the FAQ for bite apply for claws? People (Tieflings) have 4 appendges, why couldn't all 4 be claw attacks? I realize that people don't have 2 heads, so the reasoning makes sense for a bite attack.
Tieflings only have two hands; hands are claw attacks. Feet are talons, different natural attack.
Robert Brookes wrote: Tieflings only have two hands; hands are claw attacks. Feet are talons, different natural attack. Ok, sounds good.
If I take Maw or Claws (Claw), 2 levels of Barbarian (Beast Totem, Lesser), and 4 levels of alchemist (with the Vestigial Arm discoveryx2)
Would I now have 4 claw attacks, since I would have 4 arms?
Dash Lestowe wrote: Would I now have 4 claw attacks, since I would have 4 arms? Yes you would! You'd look pretty inhuman at that point though I'd imagine.
MrSin wrote: Yes you would! You'd look pretty inhuman at that point though I'd imagine. My interpretation
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