I'm stll right:) in GOLARION you have to pick a god of some sort, its clerics thing as the dinosaur said:)
The DM can decide that the campaign does happen in Golarion, but Concept Cleric is still an acceptable option.
If the DM says you are wrong, YOU ARE WRONG. And as DM, I would allow Concept Clerics in Wrath of the Righteous.
nope still right:)
Are you going to arrest me and my players for playing the game wrong?
Because if it was wrong, there must be some kind of punishment involved.
Are you going to arrest me and my players for playing the game wrong?
Because if it was wrong, there must be some kind of punishment involved.
I don't know what country YOU live in, however here in America, we don't punish people for being wrong, how you choose to live with being bested by a Halfling is entirely up to you:)
by the way, I'm still right:)
Yes yes, Cap. Just like it's always my fault. :P (I'm like the devil that way...)
considering my wife and daughtnr outnumber me in my household 2-1 i take my wins when i get them:)
Gentlemen unless you are part of the same gaming group I don't think we need to argue on this. The way you play your game is up to you.
Captain, if Icyshadow wants to play concept worrshipping clerics he may do so there is no rule stopping him. If his DM allows it, it can be played. The rules of the great JJ don't apply to the individual gaming groups as your DM is the deciding factor and I know he would agree with me on that.
Icyshadow, I hope you understand that the way the trait is designed is so you later discover that you are the child of a deity. So the assumption is that a cleric with this trait will worship thier own parent. However if you still wish to follow concept worship I suggest you have one of those domains be from your divine parent in order to have a connection.
Now let's keep things civil around here alright, I don't want to see another thread I like shut down.
The character I'm designing for this trait is a cleric of shelyn whose mortal enemy is the ivory Templars and baphomet. And since they both share the same weapon I knows there's a trait that will become very useful early on. :)
Not a problem:) i was just having fun with it, hence the smiley faces, they obviously missed that i was just joking around about halflings not being taken seriously or not getting their share of the credit when they're right:) (which i was)
as i said, i dont often get to say i'm right:)
and for the record JJ has said on numerous occasions, worshipping abstarct philosophies instead of actual deitie, demigods or other entities was someting he wished were not put into the CRB.
they also must've missed the post where i said "its your world,do with it what you want" but they just wanted to cherry pick one post and pick at that to death:) to each their own:)
I'm kind of curious to see how far telling Paizo's Creative Director that he's wrong about their official setting is going to get you :P
In all seriousness though, a single exception to the rule does not make the rule itself invalid. Remember, specific case trumps general case. It's also possible that this could be a miscommunication or mistake. Council of Thieves was the first Adventure Path to use the Pathfinder system rather than 3.5, and some things may not have been 100% set in stone at the time when the article that detailed the Order of the God Claw was written up (I'm pretty sure that was in Council of Thieves, could be wrong though).
Well I'm still here :P In any event, I think its funny though that if as James mentioned it is a HUGE part of the setting, yet the first thing on the agenda was make an exception.
Oh, and yes this was in CoT adventure path.
he also did say it was very rare, but cases do happen from time to time. :)
Creative Director
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I think this is wrong, I remember reading that hellknight clerics of the Godclaw get spells, although its not determined who gives them.Actually... pantheon stuff specifically prohibits clerics from taking part.
And cases where clerics are getting spells from deities who hide that fact from them, tricking the cleric into thinking that they're worshiping a different deity, are actually very rare. The Aroden/Iomedae thing is one of the only examples of this, and that's super rare as it is.
In any event, in Golarion clerics must worship a single deity. That's a HUGE part of their flavor, like how wizards have spellbooks, or like how druids are associated with nature, or like how paladins are lawful good, or like how barbarians rage and have bigger HD than everyone else.
In the 3.5 incarnation of Golarion, when we didn't have as strong an overarching grip on the world (aka: When we didn't have a creative director), that may have been the case.
But once we shifted fully over to the Pathfinder rules, that all got tightened up. Taking the God Claw worshipers in specific, the divine spellcasters in that group are typically inquisitors or oracles. Clerics who worship in that group can certainly acknowledge the group's overall ethos, but they themselves would STILL worship a specific deity—in this case Abadar, Asmodeus, Iomedae, Irori, or Torag. You can worship any one of those deities in exclusion (as you have to if you are a cleric) while still adhering to the tenants of the God Claw... although now and then your organization is going to do things that vex and annoy you. Which is par for the course for ANY organization.
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Creative Director
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The Core Rulebook mentions the Concept Cleric as an option.
If the DM is okay with that, even the Tyrannosaur has to step back.
That's obviously true. In the same way, if the GM says "Wizards in my game don't use spellbooks" or "Fighters in my game never use heavy armor" or "Barbarians in my world can be lawful," or whatever, that's one of the strengths of the game. You as the GM get to make ALL of the final decisions for your game.
What folks often mix up is that there is a difference between any one GM's game and the baseline assumptions of Golarion.
I'm here to (and get paid to) take care of those baseline assumptions. Basically, that gives everyone who wants to play in Golarion a common frame of reference, so that when the GM starts to change and adjust things, they only have to keep track of those changes rather than keeping track of the entire setting.
When folks ask about elements of Golarion and I reply, it is as the creative director. I'm responding to how things work in the core assumptions of Golarion, NOT how they might or might not work in any one setting.
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I'm kind of curious to see how far telling Paizo's Creative Director that he's wrong about their official setting is going to get you :P
In all seriousness though, a single exception to the rule does not make the rule itself invalid. Remember, specific case trumps general case. It's also possible that this could be a miscommunication or mistake. Council of Thieves was the first Adventure Path to use the Pathfinder system rather than 3.5, and some things may not have been 100% set in stone at the time when the article that detailed the Order of the God Claw was written up (I'm pretty sure that was in Council of Thieves, could be wrong though).
Well I'm still here :P In any event, I think its funny though that if as James mentioned it is a HUGE part of the setting, yet the first thing on the agenda was make an exception.
Oh, and yes this was in CoT adventure path.
There were indeed a lot of growing pains in the Council of Thieves adventure path, and several elements at that point did not wholly make the transition over as they probably should have. Especially since at that time I had my hands full trying to keep the new rules in mind while focusing strictly on the adventures itself—I didn't have the oversight on the supplementary articles as I had hoped, and so some stuff slipped by that I later was able to correct in the Inner Sea World Guide.
In short, if you want to play a cleric of the God Claw, you have to either pick one of the associated deities to worship, or your GM has to houserule/adjust things. And frankly, an easier option would be to simply play an oracle, since they fit in PERFECTLY for a divine spellcaster of the God Claw. The reason we didn't mention them in that first article where we first introduce the God Claw is simple—oracles as a base class didn't yet exist. And in a lot of ways, the oracle as a base class was invented as much as to give multi-deity worshiping characters a good option while allowing us to focus in on the cleric as strictly the base class that does NOT worship multiple deities.
Would you recommend any particular mysteries (or inquisitions) for the Godclaw?
Thanks!
Guy in my game is playing a cleric of Tsukiyo with that trait. Should be interesting to have a LG cleric with the Darkness and Madness domains running around...
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I am running in my homebrew world, and my cleric/divine scion took this trait and picked a demigod that the players had freed from being trapped under the Crow in Shattered Star. One of those players hardcore converted to worshipping that deity and then got hit by "the trap" in lady's light, so that character will be the Scion's mom and the conception immaculate.
Really late to this one but my Character is going with Pulura. My character background is a sarkorian aasimar blessed/cursed with an extremely long life span who has been alive since the before the fall of Sarkoris.
Edit: He may or may not be a descendant of Pulura.
Would you recommend any particular mysteries (or inquisitions) for the Godclaw?Mysteries: Battle, Flame, Lore, Occult
Inquisitions: Anger, Heresy, Imprisonment, Justice, Order, Tactics, Torture
This, and the previous comment of yours on the Order of the Godclaw, is good to know - as I plan on including them in the events of Ruins of Pathfinders Shackles setting, even if it is only a small bit.
If I have one of my players go that route, I'll make sure to mention this to 'em. (They're all playing Hellknights, attempting to bring order to the Shackles with an Iron Fist - not to mention an iron-clad warship bristling with cannons. Ah Fire as she Bears is an interesting book indeed..)
The Order of the Coil will be the big one down there, though - but alas, I am getting off topic :x
Personally.. I require my clerics to have Deities (Or Demon Lords, Empyreal Lords, etc) - as giving them 'concepts' to customize feels too metagamey for me. There are a whole crap-load of gods or demigods to choose from, after all - in all likelyhood, theres something for everyone.
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After reading Demon's Heresy,
I went with Sarenrae and the Fire domain. I just always liked Sarenrae. I thought of Iomedae, but decided against it.
After reading Demon's Heresy, ** spoiler omitted **
that is a dim and racist view on Sarenrae and her faith, she is one of golarions oldest deities, get with the times! This ain't the fifties anymore.
Until they ascend at which point they start going around wearing less and less. Seems divinity results in a shedding of clothes.
Yeah, but the books say that no matter where Sarenites are from, they adopt Qadiran-style outfits and scimitars!
and where exactly does it say this?
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Yeah, but the books say that no matter where Sarenites are from, they adopt Qadiran-style outfits and scimitars!and where exactly does it say this?
Faiths of Purity, Page 12:
"When you travel, you can often recognize others of your faith by their dress, as the Keleshite robes of the desert dervishes have become synonymous with the faith in may worshipers' minds, as have the symbol of a sunburst and the colors of white, red, and gold. Your fellows sometimes wear jewelry sporting ankhs or stylized doves, and even in the cold north, far from the deserts of Qadira and Osirion, the truly devoted carry scimitars in homage to your goddess."
Knights of the Inner Sea, Page 18:
"Knights dedicated to the glory of the Dawnflower are often recognized by the white scarves around their peaked helms and the curved blades at their sides."
Well, it makes sense they worshipers of Sarenrae would use the curved scimitars, as that is her favored weapon.
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Yeah, but I don't LIKE curved swords! All the swords I love: Sting, Anduril, Gurthang, Glamdring, Tyrfing, Balmung, Durandal, Joyeuse, Tizona, Colada, Dyrnwyn, Excalibur, Stormbringer, the Master Sword, Green Destiny and even Kusanagi no-Tsurugi, all the great swords I wish to emulate in my roleplaying, were not curved swords. And for the record, katanas are stupidly overrated, falchions are supposed to be one-handed, and the Peter Jackson movie version of Orcrist is a travesty. X(
Just because the favored weapon is a curved scimitar doesn't mean your characters has to use one. And I could see a Paladin look at the magic sword that just turned into the preferred weapon of the deity he follows, shrug, and stay with his own weapon. Just because you worship something doesn't mean you're forced to use that preferred weapon.
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okaay, forgetting your somewhat racist stereotypes of celtics and muslims/arabs, why such vehemence towards curved blades?, as someone that is a fan of all weapons that aren't guns this is rather perplexing and seems at least in this forum as rather whiny. i for one love what peter jackson did with the hobbit and lord of the rings and Orkrist is awesome!
and for the record, i was an apprentice weapon smith for the company that did the weapons for Gladiator (tho not for long as apprentice weapon smiths don't get paid much:)
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I like the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movie too! I just prefer the way Orcrist was designed in the Rankin-Bass movie.
The reason I complain is because Radiance shapeshifts into whatever weapon the deity favors, and as someone obsessed with emulating guys like King Arthur and Charlemagne, that's a bit of a downer. It pretty much shoehorns any paladin I play into Iomedae and only Iomedae, which is problematic if what I really want is to play a Sarkorian as Iomedae's sort of a "crusader's god" an import from the southern lands.
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I like the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movie too! I just prefer the way Orcrist was designed in the Rankin-Bass movie.
The reason I complain is because Radiance shapeshifts into whatever weapon the deity favors, and as someone obsessed with emulating guys like King Arthur and Charlemagne, that's a bit of a downer. It pretty much shoehorns any paladin I play into Iomedae and only Iomedae, which is problematic if what I really want is to play a Sarkorian as Iomedae's sort of a "crusader's god" an import from the southern lands.
We had this big discussion in another thread wherein James stepped in there as well. Radiance is set up to be useful to the group paladin. While it defaults to shifting to whatever your deity's favored weapon is, James suggested that DM discretion, as always, is advised.
I like the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movie too! I just prefer the way Orcrist was designed in the Rankin-Bass movie.
The reason I complain is because Radiance shapeshifts into whatever weapon the deity favors, and as someone obsessed with emulating guys like King Arthur and Charlemagne, that's a bit of a downer. It pretty much shoehorns any paladin I play into Iomedae and only Iomedae, which is problematic if what I really want is to play a Sarkorian as Iomedae's sort of a "crusader's god" an import from the southern lands.
i'll post some suitable paladin deities with cool non curved swords then:)
Ragathiel LG Favored Weapon:Bastard Sword Empyreal Lord of Chivalry, Duty, Vengeance Domains: Destruction, Good, Law Nobility
i actually see your point after this little exercise, so i apologize for my previous confrontational tone. i do like Ragathiel tho, and his favored weapon is pretty cool and fits in with Sarkoris's religious practices a little better then Iomadae (not that she doesn't fit as shed was a deity before the fall of Sarkoris, just not as prominent) but i understand if you don't care for her, i myself don't care for Abadar that much:) we all have our favorite Golarion deities
is the Rankin-Bass movie you refer to the cartoon from back in the day?
i actually prefer Orkrist in the Peter Jackson, so we'll have to disagree there:)
I just wish the swords in the Hobbit movie glowed. Even if it was something Gandalf later turned off. I don't care if they made the swords look like light sabers or whatever silly excuse there was. If one elvish blade glows blue when Orcs and Goblins are near, then why not two bloody named swords?
Meh.
You know, if the Paladin doesn't worship an actal God and is just dedicated to good and lawful deities in general, the blade remains just a longsword. Simple solution right there. ;) Especially as Paladins who worship a specific God have an archetype that not all players may want to play.
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is the Rankin-Bass movie you refer to the cartoon from back in the day?
i actually prefer Orkrist in the Peter Jackson, so we'll have to disagree there:)
The same. Hell, that movie was what got me interested in Tolkien in the first place, back when I was seven!
You know, Ragathiel DOES fit pretty well for a character from Sarkoris. Not only is he an Empyreal Lord, which were popular Sarkorian deities, but he's the patron of vengeance. It'd totally make sense for a Sarkorian paladin to seek vengeance against the despoilers of his peoples' home!
I'm glad i could help! he has a small snippet in The Inner Sea World Guide, otherwise a LOT more info on him in the Empyreal Lords book (Chronicles of the Righteous or something:)
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I am going to have to run a GMPC in this AP, If no one plays a Melee character i was thinking of making a Paladin of Ragathiel, oath of Vengeance and making him a Mute or talks very little. I hate having a GMPC because it is hard to not give spoilers away.
I plan to look for another PC but if i can't any suggestions on a good way to do a GMPC in this AP?
I know, I have the books in question. Just wasn't sure how well it fit with the story concept. His infernal heritage ties him to devils, so I tend to associate him more with places like Cheliax and whatnot.
I forgot about that! i don't have the empyreal lords book yet, had a rough patch money wise :) so i got way behind in the campaign setting line:( it happens and things are looking up so its not so bad:)
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13 Characters (12 players, 5 no longer instate, add 1 new player)
9 follow Iomedae.
3 follows Ragathiel.
1 is unknown, joining the table on wednesday
This first one is a Huge Sized Forest Giant(tiefling)
The Forest Walks, is a barbarian/Cleric. Uses a huge sized 2h sword and a huge musket that isn't a musket but works for the throw rock ability.. just for fluff looks like a small cannon. Thinking of becoming a paladin.
The second is a Large Leonid
RrrroHarrrr (which best translates into common as Rufus), is a Paladin/Cleric. He uses a silver Earthbraaker, his innate maul ability or a MW Scorpion with a tripod to battle.
The third is a medium Aasimar
IFORGOTHISNAME, is a bard/standard bearer. He bears a cutlass, longspear and revolver for arms. I also gave him a banner.. based off one from somewhere on the srd.
This tattered, battle-worn, banner is made of bleached canvas that was once a burial shroud. It is a rectangle 3'x4' with the following design upon it. Centered is the silver blade of Iomedae and below it is a dark blue filled in star(5point) there is a golden trim around the edges of the banner.
All three spent centuries of their lives serving Ragathiel in as aids to his command staff. Ragathiel ordered them to bring the battle to Golorian and help aid with the reclamation of what once was Sarkoris. The three left headquarters on the first tier of Heaven. and came to Golorian, all three are full outsiders, with the exception they can not be banished back to Heaven. They are in effect ageless as well.
Also those three are the only ones that choose this trait.
So that's going to be interesting.
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SO, this is a big necro, but: has anyone played this out for the majority of the campaign with two characters, both taking Touched By Divinity, but worshiping separate gods?
The text highly recommends they both worship the same god, but I have two players who are extremely set on their respective gods (Paladin of Iomedae and an Inquisitor of Shaundakul - I allowed the FR god because Shaundakul is the best god ever).
I haven't bought all of the books yet (only the first and second), so... how much of a headache will it be for me to rewrite the big reveal with two separate gods?
Fexx,
Android Cleric of Pharasma
SO, this is a big necro, but: has anyone played this out for the majority of the campaign with two characters, both taking Touched By Divinity, but worshiping separate gods?
The text highly recommends they both worship the same god, but I have two players who are extremely set on their respective gods (Paladin of Iomedae and an Inquisitor of Shaundakul - I allowed the FR god because Shaundakul is the best god ever).
I haven't bought all of the books yet (only the first and second), so... how much of a headache will it be for me to rewrite the big reveal with two separate gods?
Maybe they're both the children of Shaundakul and Iomedae? ^.^
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Female (actually hermaphrodict [i rolled on the features list to see if she got anything else]) beastbrood vudrai paladin of shelyn.
Sorry if I misspelled anything. I hate my iPhone's spell checker.