So my Dm invited me to a session he had started up. He told us to all make level 2 characters, so I figured I would give the Monk of Many Styles with the Crane Style feat tree a try. After a boxing match and an encounter with a Forest Drake, my Dm concluded that the Crane Style feat tree was overpowered and that I could only deflect and make an attack of opportunity after the deflection relating the the Crane Style feat tree direct proportion of my level (So currently twice a day). I disagreed with him, but not wanting to turn this into a big argument and annoy the other players I choose to comply with his decision the rest of the session. I've looked over some of the other threads in regards to Crane Style feat tree, but I wanted some feedback on this specific situation. Is the nerf fair and am I just overreacting because my build was shutdown? If not, how should I respond to my Dm in regards to this?
Your GM does have the last word for everything in your game, and you should work with him on this. You definitely shouldn't browbeat him with any opinions you hear here.
That said, Crane Style really isn't overpowered at all. There are few viable defensive abilities in Pathfinder because offense is pretty much always the best defense you can have. The few defensive abilities that truly do offer enough stick out because they are so rare. You can remind your GM that it is only once per round, not once per creature, and that enemies with multiple/iterative attacks can still damage you well. When a dragon decides to use its entire full attack on you, blocking the first hit only does so much for you.
The nerf is not fair, your DM is overreacting.
That said, your options fall into:
-Explain to him exactly WHY it's not overpowered, and hope he listens (and the type to make knee-jerk nerfs to things after 2 encounters are likely NOT to listen to any dissenting opinions).
-Deal with it.
-Leave the game.
-Ask him if you can rebuild a bit and take different Feats.
Can you be more clear with what's going on here? It sounds like you have both Crane Style and Crane Wing, its next tier feat. Crane Wing is a very good feat, but it does come with some downsides. First, you're investing both of your Monk bonus feats into this style, meaning that your damage outlook is pretty poor. Second, it only really helps YOU, and as a 3/4 BAB class taking a –2 penalty on anything hurts. So either you're probably going to miss fighting defensively, or you're not going to be attacking at all. Without doing much else, your monk isn't very threatening and if you aren't doing much to threaten your opponents, there is absolutely no reason they should bother trying to attack you after one, maybe two rounds.
When built to be defensive, the monk is actually very strong, possessing good saves and via Crane Style, a decent armor class. Your GM needs to be prepared for the fact that he's dealing with a character who is designed to be good at not dying, and when you're investing most of your resources into doing that its hardly over powered. Just remind him that its a –4 penalty to flurry while fighting defensively and he might calm down a little bit.
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What?! The Monk is actually capable of defending himself?!
Nerf it! Everyone knows the Monk should be completely useless at everything.
I suggest you just point your DM to the Wizard and ask again how your Monk is overpowered.
Your GM does have the last word for everything in your game, and you should work with him on this. You definitely shouldn't browbeat him with any opinions you hear here.
That said, Crane Style really isn't overpowered at all. There are few viable defensive abilities in Pathfinder because offense is pretty much always the best defense you can have. The few defensive abilities that truly do offer enough stick out because they are so rare. You can remind your GM that it is only once per round, not once per creature, and that enemies with multiple/iterative attacks can still damage you well. When a dragon decides to use its entire full attack on you, blocking the first hit only does so much for you.
Thank you, I shall remind him of that.
The nerf is not fair, your DM is overreacting.
That said, your options fall into:
-Explain to him exactly WHY it's not overpowered, and hope he listens (and the type to make knee-jerk nerfs to things after 2 encounters are likely NOT to listen to any dissenting opinions).
-Deal with it.
-Leave the game.
-Ask him if you can rebuild a bit and take different Feats.
These do appear to be my options. Leaving the game over this seems childish so I'll avoid that, I would rather not deal with it, which is why I started this post to see if I was right in my regards to challenge the Dm. I'm considering rebuilding my character and asking him about that, but then I'm not sure how he'll react to my other character builds. So it seems option 1 is what I'm leaning towards. Thanks for the advice though.
Can you be more clear with what's going on here? It sounds like you have both Crane Style and Crane Wing, its next tier feat. Crane Wing is a very good feat, but it does come with some downsides. First, you're investing both of your Monk bonus feats into this style, meaning that your damage outlook is pretty poor. Second, it only really helps YOU, and as a 3/4 BAB class taking a –2 penalty on anything hurts. So either you're probably going to miss fighting defensively, or you're not going to be attacking at all. Without doing much else, your monk isn't very threatening and if you aren't doing much to threaten your opponents, there is absolutely no reason they should bother trying to attack you after one, maybe two rounds.
When built to be defensive, the monk is actually very strong, possessing good saves and via Crane Style, a decent armor class. Your GM needs to be prepared for the fact that he's dealing with a character who is designed to be good at not dying, and when you're investing most of your resources into doing that its hardly over powered. Just remind him that its a –4 penalty to flurry while fighting defensively and he might calm down a little bit.
Yes, I have both the Crane Style and Crane Wing feat. I am a Human Monk 2 Master of Many Styles. I used my bonus feat from being human to get Dodge, I used my feat from being level 1 to get Crane Style, and my bonus monk feat to get Crane Wing. At level 2, I used my bonus monk feat to get Crane Riposte. My strength is a 18 so I have a +4 strength bonus with my +1 BAB giving me a +5 on melee attacks. When I'm fighting defensively I have a 18 AC 1+ from Dodge, +3 from Dex, +1, from Wis and +3 for fighting defensively with Crane Style. When our party fought the Drake, I did the most damage to it. That plus the fact that I completely dodged it's breath attack due to Evasion and deflected the one tail swipe that would have hit me. So that's the low down on how we are fighting. I'm also not quite sure how balanced our encounters are as this is a custom campaign run by our Dm and the session ended with the beginning of a battle against a white wolf where our ranger got 1 shot by the wolf for 20 damage and is currently on the ground bleeding to death. So even though my monk shouldn't be that threatening, it appears to be the most threatening thing in the party at the moment.
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Also, you can point out that you can't even use it the first round of any combat. You have to be in crane style to use it, which you can't enter until you use a swift action on your first round of combat. If anyone wins initiative on you then you can't block their attack even if they don't have a surprise round and you aren't flat footed.
That said Crane Wing was balanced for Characters that are at least fifth level. Master Of Many Styles is letting you get it early, and at level 2 it IS somewhat OP. It's usefulness will decrease in level, and you had to give up a lot of class features including flurry to get it.
If the DM still wants to nerf it at your level, as a compromise suggest making the Master of Many Styles ignore feat and skill requisites for style feats, but not BAB or Monk level X ones. Then swap Crane Wing for a different feat and take it when it is level appropriate.
What?! The Monk is actually capable of defending himself?!
Nerf it! Everyone knows the Monk should be completely useless at everything.
I suggest you just point your DM to the Wizard and ask again how your Monk is overpowered.
Our group has only had experience with playing low level characters in low level encounters, so I'm not sure if I can effectively show him a good Wizard to Monk comparison that would be convincing. I also think it's because he doesn't know how to counteract my Monk at the moment. I am currently composing a list of things that it's deflection ability wouldn't work on and plan to present that to my Dm next session.
Also, you can point out that you can't even use it the first round of any combat. You have to be in crane style to use it, which you can't enter until you use a swift action on your first round of combat. If anyone wins initiative on you then you can't block their attack even if they don't have a surprise round and you aren't flat footed.
That said Crane Wing was balanced for Characters that are at least fifth level. Master Of Many Styles is letting you get it early, and at level 2 it IS somewhat OP. It's usefulness will decrease in level, and you had to give up a lot of class features including flurry to get it.
If the DM still wants to nerf it at your level, as a compromise suggest making the Master of Many Styles ignore feat and skill requisites for style feats, but not BAB or Monk level X ones. Then swap Crane Wing for a different feat and take it when it is level appropriate.
My Dm is aware that attacking the first round before I can activate Crane Style. I will consider your suggestion, but I still don't like the idea as I can't deflect ranged attacks, splash damage, ranged touch attacks, spells, ect. The fact is we have only really been engaged in melee combat, which is what my monk excels in. The fact that the decision was based off of one melee combat encounter is what is slightly bothering me, especially with all of it's weaknesses.
The Crane Style tree loses its luster a bit in higher levels. Imagine getting full attacked by a dragon- it claws, it hits! Let it go, the bite's still coming... it claws, it hits! Ouch. At least I'll deflect that bite... It bites, it misses!
Know what I mean?
I would make the point to the GM that while the benefit might seem potentially OP'ed at lower levels, at higher levels its a much, much less potent option... its still great, mind you, but it does nothing to help you against spells and spell-like abilities, ranged attacks, assaults on your CMD, etc.
And, of course, it only negates one attack per round.
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So my Dm invited me to a session he had started up. He told us to all make level 2 characters, so I figured I would give the Monk of Many Styles with the Crane Style feat tree a try. After a boxing match and an encounter with a Forest Drake, my Dm concluded that the Crane Style feat tree was overpowered and that I could only deflect and make an attack of opportunity after the deflection relating the the Crane Style feat tree direct proportion of my level (So currently twice a day). I disagreed with him, but not wanting to turn this into a big argument and annoy the other players I choose to comply with his decision the rest of the session. I've looked over some of the other threads in regards to Crane Style feat tree, but I wanted some feedback on this specific situation. Is the nerf fair and am I just overreacting because my build was shutdown? If not, how should I respond to my Dm in regards to this?
Use Snake Style and it's other components. That'll really show him OP.
+4 vs trip and bull rush, using Sense Motive as your AC/TouchAC, Piercing damage(which goes great with keen or improved crit), every time he misses you return an attack, and a few other things.
The Crane Style tree loses its luster a bit in higher levels. Imagine getting full attacked by a dragon- it claws, it hits! Let it go, the bite's still coming... it claws, it hits! Ouch. At least I'll deflect that bite... It bites, it misses!
Know what I mean?
Yes, but it seems like lower level play is the big issue at the moment. I'll see if he'll listen to that though. Thanks!
I would make the point to the GM that while the benefit might seem potentially OP'ed at lower levels, at higher levels its a much, much less potent option... its still great, mind you, but it does nothing to help you against spells and spell-like abilities, ranged attacks, assaults on your CMD, etc.
And, of course, it only negates one attack per round.
Yes, I will try to point that out. I am currently composing a list of attacks that Crane Wing and Crane Riposte don't work against, to see if I can change his mind. Thanks
So my Dm invited me to a session he had started up. He told us to all make level 2 characters, so I figured I would give the Monk of Many Styles with the Crane Style feat tree a try. After a boxing match and an encounter with a Forest Drake, my Dm concluded that the Crane Style feat tree was overpowered and that I could only deflect and make an attack of opportunity after the deflection relating the the Crane Style feat tree direct proportion of my level (So currently twice a day). I disagreed with him, but not wanting to turn this into a big argument and annoy the other players I choose to comply with his decision the rest of the session. I've looked over some of the other threads in regards to Crane Style feat tree, but I wanted some feedback on this specific situation. Is the nerf fair and am I just overreacting because my build was shutdown? If not, how should I respond to my Dm in regards to this?Use Snake Style and it's other components. That'll really show him OP.
+4 vs trip and bull rush, using Sense Motive as your AC/TouchAC, Piercing damage(which goes great with keen or improved crit), every time he misses you return an attack, and a few other things.
As fun as that sounds, I feel like that wouldn't help the problem at all. But I might keep that in mind for future builds.
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Crane Style isn't OP until you get stalwart and combat expertise (Don't, the nerf will become heavier when you are getting DR8/- that stacks after every hit). I think you should try to explain to your GM that crane style isn't that OP and will lose out once you get to level 5ish. At Least try to get him to let you retrain your feats. I mean, since you blew those feats already, you can't use fuse style. Now, if you get stalwart or you multiclass into armored hulk and ignore the stuff you lose in armor, your GM may have a point. Crane Style isn't really OP, it is just a strong defensive option. Maybe you could try to negotiate a damage penalty as well as attack roll penalty at the absolute least.
Crane Style is overpowered.
I'm not sure when this mythical high level play sweet spot is but in the highish level games I'm in Crane Style is still broken.
I shall keep note of that. Any addition reasons as to why?
Crane Style isn't OP until you get stalwart and combat expertise (Don't, the nerf will become heavier when you are getting DR8/- that stacks after every hit). I think you should try to explain to your GM that crane style isn't that OP and will lose out once you get to level 5ish. At Least try to get him to let you retrain your feats. I mean, since you blew those feats already, you can't use fuse style. Now, if you get stalwart or you multiclass into armored hulk and ignore the stuff you lose in armor, your GM may have a point. Crane Style isn't really OP, it is just a strong defensive option. Maybe you could try to negotiate a damage penalty as well as attack roll penalty at the absolute least.
Will keep this in mind. Right now I would rather just retrain my feats over nerfing things as it makes it harder to reference them in the SRD and rulebooks later along with other confusion.
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It's a lot of things but in short, it's too much of a defensive boon for the investment.
Yeah man it's like, 4 Feats? Shit that's a pitiful investment, not anything at all, even.
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If you would rather retrain feats, I think you should consider trying to get a full retrain instead, because your AC seems feeble without it. If you point out that feinting or being invisible makes you a lot squishier, your GM might let you rebuild. 3-4 feats is a heavy investment, even if you get a bunch of bonus feats. How are you getting stats BTW? It could be helpful in this to post comparing builds here or possibly replacements.
As for new feats, Dragon Style is good if you keep that high Str.
It's a lot of things but in short, it's too much of a defensive boon for the investment.
Snake Style also being broken doesn't make Crane Style not broken.
Noted.
It's a lot of things but in short, it's too much of a defensive boon for the investment.Yeah man it's like, 4 Feats? S$~! that's a pitiful investment, not anything at all, even.
Noted, though I don't know if I would consider 4 feats not anything at all.
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It might make him un-nerf Crane Style XD
There really is NO reason to nerf it though. It's just one attack per day, and it only does very little for a full attack on your character. It's great, but not OP by any means. Usually D&D involves a party of players. He can attack someone else. Also, he could come at you with something that doesn't involve AC. Magic Users would get past Crane Style with ease.
I truly think he's dealing with it wrong. He should honestly just leave it alone and really sit down to think about how to handle it correctly.
If you would rather retrain feats, I think you should consider trying to get a full retrain instead, because your AC seems feeble without it. If you point out that feinting or being invisible makes you a lot squishier, your GM might let you rebuild. 3-4 feats is a heavy investment, even if you get a bunch of bonus feats. How are you getting stats BTW? It could be helpful in this to post comparing builds here or possibly replacements.
As for new feats, Dragon Style is good if you keep that high Str.
I will post my statblock as soon as I get my laptop charging cable back and can access it. We are rolling for stats. 4d6 drop the lowest, re-roll all dice if total is lower than 10. Prefer point buy and transfer over to that system, but that's the way things are currently.
It might make him un-nerf Crane Style XD
There really is NO reason to nerf it though. It's just one attack per day, and it only does very little for a full attack on your character. It's great, but not OP by any means. Usually D&D involves a party of players. He can attack someone else. Also, he could come at you with something that doesn't involve AC. Magic Users would get past Crane Style with ease.
I truly think he's dealing with it wrong. He should honestly just leave it alone and really sit down to think about how to handle it correctly.
Our party is usually not even unified in the slightest and the chance of party members killing party members is always quite likely. Somehow we have a CG that is getting along great with our CE Undead Lord Cleric, while we have a Ranger who has not identified his alignment who seems to be doing whatever he pleases. We have had several brawls break out and my monk seems to be the enforcer at the moment and everyone is concerned for their well-being. So I'm not really sure if you could consider our group a party. I think another issue may be that my Monk is more survivable on it's own than the other players and my Dm is trying to get rid of that to even things out. Unfortunately, I don't think this is a solution to party unity. Wow, went on a rant there, but I agree with all of your points... except the first one...
... We are rolling for stats. 4d6 drop the lowest, re-roll all dice if total is lower than 10. Prefer point buy and transfer over to that system, but that's the way things are currently.A bit off topic, however in my group every time we've used the 4d6 -1d system we've ended up with "equivalent point-buy's" of 30+, each and every character, each and every time. I gave players the option of rolling and "let the dice fall where they may" or 25 pt Point Buy and they were like, "Are you crazy? I'm rollin' !"
It just makes me wonder if other folks here on the board are playing with cursed dice or something...
(edit: corrected some grammar)
I think the point buy is just more balanced in the sense of everyone has the same option. We've had some characters have really good roles and some characters have really bad roles for stats and the one's with bad roles complain. We had a player who rolled 4 consecutive 18's in a row while another in the same party didn't get anything above a 14. That and some players are prone to cheating and lying about their dice rolls.
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I am personally playing with cursed dice I believe. Every time a play a full cast debuff designed to never be able to hit, I somehow manage to crit on everything I attack (for a whopping 2 nonlethal damage) and when I play things with like +6-9 to hit that are heavy melee with 15-20 crits, I somehow manage to get a 1 at least 5 times.
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Our party is usually not even unified in the slightest and the chance of party members killing party members is always quite likely. Somehow we have a CG that is getting along great with our CE Undead Lord Cleric, while we have a Ranger who has not identified his alignment who seems to be doing whatever he pleases. We have had several brawls break out and my monk seems to be the enforcer at the moment and everyone is concerned for their well-being. So I'm not really sure if you could consider our group a party. I think another issue may be that my Monk is more survivable on it's own than the other players and my Dm is trying to get rid of that to even things out. Unfortunately, I don't think this is a solution to party unity. Wow, went on a rant there, but I agree with all of your points... except the first one...It might make him un-nerf Crane Style XD
There really is NO reason to nerf it though. It's just one attack per day, and it only does very little for a full attack on your character. It's great, but not OP by any means. Usually D&D involves a party of players. He can attack someone else. Also, he could come at you with something that doesn't involve AC. Magic Users would get past Crane Style with ease.
I truly think he's dealing with it wrong. He should honestly just leave it alone and really sit down to think about how to handle it correctly.
Get a Wand of Strong Jaw. Then they'll TRULY fear your monk.
I love Monks, and they aren't crap like many say they are, let alone worst DPS or whatever. They're pretty boss, and I enjoy how everyone underestimates them. Monk/Druids are truly terrifying lol.
It's just one attack per day,
One attack per round.
and it only does very little for a full attack on your character.
Except give you a massive AC bonus?
The game isn't called "Dungeons and Damage."
Noted, though I don't know if I would consider 4 feats not anything at all.It's a lot of things but in short, it's too much of a defensive boon for the investment.Yeah man it's like, 4 Feats? S$~! that's a pitiful investment, not anything at all, even.
I wouldn't either. Forgot my [/sarcasm] tag.
Except give you a massive AC bonus?
The game isn't called "Dungeons and Damage."
It only gives you a small boost over the normal Fighting Defensively/Total Defense bonus.
As well, this game is specifically DESIGNED to reward offense over defense, so it may as well be "Dungeons and Damage", because if you can't KILL (which, for a martial class, requires you to hit and do damage) the monster you can't move forwards.
I think the point buy is just more balanced in the sense of everyone has the same option.Whoever said "(character)life" has to be 'fair' or 'balanced'? It'd be nice if Real Life could be that way... But in all seriousness, yeah, I get it, it can be discouraging if you have one guy whose dice are hot, and another whose dice are totally lackluster. But even then, it can be made up for (somewhat) with clever RolEplaying. Some of my favorite characters didn't have a single stat higher than 13- but that was 'back in the day'.
We've had some characters have really good roles and some characters have really bad roles for stats and the one's with bad roles complain. We had a player who rolled 4 consecutive 18's in a row while another in the same party didn't get anything above a 14. That and some players are prone to cheating and lying about their dice rolls.The cheating thing we never have to deal with, since all die rolls for CharGen have to be witnessed by the DM to be valid. And regarding bad rolls, well, it's for good reason there's the old saying, "That's just the luck of the dice"...
No one said ever said character life has to be balanced, but I believe character's should at least start out somewhat balanced in stats. Whatever happens next in the adventure can't be controlled and I totally respect that. Usually we never have our players do character creation together so witnessing the stat roll hasn't been a thing, though it should be if we continue stat rolls. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Our party is usually not even unified in the slightest and the chance of party members killing party members is always quite likely. Somehow we have a CG that is getting along great with our CE Undead Lord Cleric, while we have a Ranger who has not identified his alignment who seems to be doing whatever he pleases. We have had several brawls break out and my monk seems to be the enforcer at the moment and everyone is concerned for their well-being. So I'm not really sure if you could consider our group a party. I think another issue may be that my Monk is more survivable on it's own than the other players and my Dm is trying to get rid of that to even things out. Unfortunately, I don't think this is a solution to party unity. Wow, went on a rant there, but I agree with all of your points... except the first one...It might make him un-nerf Crane Style XD
There really is NO reason to nerf it though. It's just one attack per day, and it only does very little for a full attack on your character. It's great, but not OP by any means. Usually D&D involves a party of players. He can attack someone else. Also, he could come at you with something that doesn't involve AC. Magic Users would get past Crane Style with ease.
I truly think he's dealing with it wrong. He should honestly just leave it alone and really sit down to think about how to handle it correctly.
Get a Wand of Strong Jaw. Then they'll TRULY fear your monk.
I love Monks, and they aren't crap like many say they are, let alone worst DPS or whatever. They're pretty boss, and I enjoy how everyone underestimates them. Monk/Druids are truly terrifying lol.
I love how you're telling me how to make my monk completely optimized in a thread which was created to convince the DM that my monk build had weaknesses so I could continue playing as I have been. Keep the advice coming, I don't mind. Just an observation.
If you want to make your DM cry OP over defense make a high int Duelist. They can deflect any attack, multiple times a round mind you, that requires an attack roll, this includes spells like rays.
Noted.
It's just one attack per day,One attack per round.
and it only does very little for a full attack on your character.Except give you a massive AC bonus?
The game isn't called "Dungeons and Damage."
Wait, am I missing something? I only have to activate Crane Style as a swift action once per battle right? Does it take a full round action?
You have to activate it as a Swift action at battle start, but it still can only deflect one attack per round (meaning things with multiple attacks still have PLENTY of chances to hit you), and you have to "Fight Defensively as a Full Round Action" to utilize the style at all (imparting a penalty to your to-hit in exchange for more defenses).
It's a swift action to enter a style and you only have to do it once per battle.
You have to activate it as a Swift action at battle start, but it still can only deflect one attack per round (meaning things with multiple attacks still have PLENTY of chances to hit you), and you have to "Fight Defensively as a Full Round Action" to utilize the style at all (imparting a penalty to your to-hit in exchange for more defenses).
Ok, that's what I thought. Forgot fighting defensively was a full-round action so that might help a little with the balancing as I can't really be chasing anything while fighting defensively now. Thanks, I still make stupid mistakes every now and then.
It's a swift action to enter a style and you only have to do it once per battle.
Can you just not walk around in the style? Sure you look silly, but when that T-Rex charges you, you were the one prepared to backhand it and say "NO! Bad T-Rex Bad!"
You have to activate it as a Swift action at battle start, but it still can only deflect one attack per round (meaning things with multiple attacks still have PLENTY of chances to hit you), and you have to "Fight Defensively as a Full Round Action" to utilize the style at all (imparting a penalty to your to-hit in exchange for more defenses).
Fighting Defensively as a standard works too. To be honest fighting defensively on its own looks pretty awful and crane style brings it closer to something reasonable and attractive. As you level up foes tend to get more and more attacks, and iteratives to smack you with, making the ability more tame. Personally, I think its only really overpowered when you for some reason are fighting something with one large attack(vital striking hippo? Idk.) Usually you aren't though, and really you probably shouldn't be.
It's a swift action to enter a style and you only have to do it once per battle.Can you just not walk around in the style? Sure you look silly, but when that T-Rex charges you, you were the one prepared to backhand it and say "NO! Bad T-Rex Bad!"
You have to activate it as a Swift action at battle start, but it still can only deflect one attack per round (meaning things with multiple attacks still have PLENTY of chances to hit you), and you have to "Fight Defensively as a Full Round Action" to utilize the style at all (imparting a penalty to your to-hit in exchange for more defenses).Fighting Defensively as a standard works too. To be honest fighting defensively on its own looks pretty awful and crane style brings it closer to something reasonable and attractive. As you level up foes tend to get more and more attacks, and iteratives to smack you with, making the ability more tame. Personally, I think its only really overpowered when you for some reason are fighting something with one large attack(vital striking hippo? Idk.) Usually you aren't though, and really you probably shouldn't be.
Noted. Thanks.
"As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style."
I guess you could argue that once you enter that style in combat it persists forever until you decide to change it.
What's really going to piss off your GM is when he realizes that as a Master of Many Styles, you could have skipped Dodge and Crane Style and gone straight to Wing and Riposte.
Then, you could have used the two feat slots to pick up Snake Fang and Snake Sidewind and be able to negate 2 attacks and make 3 counter attacks at 2nd level.
"As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style."
I guess you could argue that once you enter that style in combat it persists forever until you decide to change it.
Noted. I usually activate it after combat starts as I find constantly being in it, legal but unrealistic for rp-ing.