I am a bit confused.
How can a player full attack with appendages which are used to keep the creature from falling down, like its legs?
I understand that in a pounce move you can use them but in a normal full attack it doesnt seem to make sense.
Any help would be appreciated...
Thanks!
What appendages are you concerned about?
The only example of player having that option is, through dragon form (wing attacks while flying, which seems weird), or a monk using kicks (which he effectivily could do using only one leg).
Other than that, I cannot remember any creatures able to attack with every appendage they use to support themselves, barring rake (limited to grapples and pouncing).
The attacks occur over the timespan of 6 seconds, so you don't have to kick with both legs and both arms at once...
the wing buffet is a little iffy when flying, but I would count it slapping wings together around the target or something.
pounce is usually given to animals that have four or more legs. A 'pounce' in game terms is a creature clearing the distance in a charge manuever, and obtaining their normal full round attack, thus, while hindquarters remain on the ground, a creature gets a claw/claw/bite attack at the end of its move.
A player who somehow gets the pounce feat most likely has to have an animal form of some kind, I've not really encountered any way to subvert the rules in this area, so the way you word it leaves me confused as well.
Cool thats what I was figuring... The character has a wild shape of dienichus dinosaur and when he pounced no problem with the five natural attack because it jumps in the air. But he said he should get all five as a full round action... I said, 'look, you get your bite and your two claws and he was screaming that i was being unfair..
+1 with Donduckie. 6 seconds is the time to do the full attack. So why try to restrict?
A monk for example can perfectly do 5 kicks or 2 kicks, 1 headbutt and 2 punches during his full attack (provided he's got 5 attacks/round) and still stand on his feet.
So being natural attacks is the same.
But monk isn't a very awkward animal is he... Ok fair enough... I had another character who had a leopard and the pounce was the only time he could use all four of his claws... No problem... Thanks everyone...
Cool thats what I was figuring... The character has a wild shape of dienichus dinosaur and when he pounced no problem with the five natural attack because it jumps in the air. But he said he should get all five as a full round action... I said, 'look, you get your bite and your two claws and he was screaming that i was being unfair..
I have a few different comments here:
1) By the rules he can make all attacks, so I can understand him being upset about the changes if they were made in the midst of a game.
2) The deinonychus, being a winged non-flying creature, might jump in the air slashing with all limps, so it might not be that far fetched.
3) Does dinosaurs exist in your game world? Since the druid need to know the animals he change into, it is reasonable to disallow some animal choices.
4) The deinonychus is mechanically problematic, in my opinion. 5 natural attacks is significantly better than the other choices. Ruling that it has 3 attacks + rake would make sense in regards to balance.
Both 3) and 4) however, requires a talk with the player beforehand. I sucks as a player to have a build shutdown in the midst of a game, just because the GM feels it is too strong.
Disallowing too strong builds is fair enough, but should happen in conversation with the player, away from the game.
The deinonychus 's stat block in the monster manual is a little different than the animal companion. It reads
Melee 2 talons +5 (1d8+2), bite +5 (1d6+2), foreclaws +0 (1d4+1)
The foreclaws are 1 attack, not two, when he turns into it.
The talons are the main weapon on those things, I'd be ticked if i suddenly couldn't use my best attacks.
The talons point forward and down, its significantly easier for a raptor to use them than someone with a bladed boot or a claw on their foot. When I had to dramatically describe how my druids Ac was killing someone with them, my favorite was he was digging the talons into the creatures legs, walking up his body like a lumberjack with leg spikes and biting into the creatures face.
It could also conceivably balance on its tail, kangaroo style.
But monk isn't a very awkward animal is he... Ok fair enough... I had another character who had a leopard and the pounce was the only time he could use all four of his claws... No problem... Thanks everyone...
Leopards are not Dienonychuses. That's like saying that since a Wizard has to prepare spells, a Sorcerer has to as well.
Chengar, I understand your analogy however it is a smidge too macro and almost apples and oranges...
where i think this is crabapple with a macintosh...
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Leopards and Deionychuses are built completely differently, a cat is built to pounce and grab its prey, raking it while holding on with its for limbs.
The dinosaur is all about gutting its prey, it uses its talons to make deep abdominal wounds while trying to land a bite, the forearms are almost an after thought, brought into play following the bite scratching at whatever is in reach.
How? The game mechanics tell you that's how.