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I have no idea what the f+@* Vancian means, and if anyone links to Wikipedia rather than explain it I will burn this thread to the ground:-DRefers to the works of Jack Vance, where magic worked similarly to how it does in D&D/Pathfinder. Except wizards tended to know VERY few spells. If you knew three spells, you were an archmage of unparalleled power.
No, even Cugel knew that many.
Iucounu the Laughing Magician knew dozens and dozens.
The fourth chapter of a "basic book" of magic contains a dozen spells, per Rhialto the Marvellous.
Turjan knew exactly 100 spells. He was not counted the most powerful.
wiki: "The most powerful wizards of the 21st Aeon of the Dying Earth are banded together in an association, and mostly reside in the territories of Ascolais and Almery. Unlike other wizards of the Dying Earth, such as Turjan and Mazirian, these wizards possess nearly godlike power. With little effort, they can travel to the distant past or the furthest reaches of the universe, freeze time (a popular dirty trick), prolong their lives for eons, change their shape and appearance, summon useful objects, and call forth numerous spells of protection, destruction, investigation, or simple amusement and experimentation. Much of their power comes from their ability to bind and control potent genie-like beings called sandestins, while they also derive power from their large stores of magical relics. The most highly prized are IOUN stones, mystical stones which they take as the spoils of their battles with the archveults. Their conduct toward one another is governed by a set of rules called the Blue Principles, because they are inscribed upon a blue stone which displays them through a sort of projector."
So you admit you have no way to distinguish PTSD from hurt feelings?S*#~ I was about to say "Magic"
It all comes full circle.
It's kinda like porn vs nude art. Hard to define the difference between them exactly, but you know it when you see it.
There are some legitimate uses for "trigger warnings" (such as warning against subjects that actually cause trauma in otherwise normal individuals, such as rape, or murder, or child abuse et al) but you can clearly label the majority of uses of the phrase as a pitiful cry for attention.
No, I don't truly believe someone mentally breaks down every time they see a white person, or the color blue, or fan art of a show they don't like/do like but don't like the context.
And if they do, they should check themselves into a mental hospital because clearly something else is wrong with them.
So you legitimately think thousands of people have PTSD because of trivial b%*%&+$$?
Which means you have already sifted them into boxes of "legitimate" and "not legitimate", making this entire talk around pointless.
I take that as a yes.So you admit you have no way to distinguish PTSD from hurt feelings?It's kinda like porn. You know it when you see it.
I think it means no objective (as in mind independent) way - "know it when I see it" does suggest a way to distinguish between the two.
Why do you assume that?
If you believe one thing, and disbelieve another thing, you've already decided where they fit in your world view.
You either believe these "triggers" are legitimate, or you do not. The ones you do not are, to you, sorted into the "not legitimate" box (or at best the "not sure" box).
Unless you meant the "pointless" thing? I guess it's only semi-pointless since it helped me kill some time and I found an interesting article while I was looking for silly examples that listed, among other things, "listings of calories" as a common trigger warning, but it still didn't really advance the conversation much.
Edit:
What I believe is legitimate matters very little when dealing with psychological disorders.
Many people believe PTSD is just hurt feelings.
I think it matters as far as being discerning goes, and I don't know that anyone with an opinion worth listening to thinks PTSD is "just" hurt feelings.
At a certain point you need to decide what's legitimate and what's not or you'd never be able to avoid saying something "triggering". That's why these influx of, if we're being charitable, HIGHLY SPECIFIC triggers don't help matters much.
Sure, someone out there might be legitimately triggered by who knows what...but I doubt many multiples of people would be, and adding a trigger warning for all that odd stuff is simply not practical.
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I return to this.
Right, but this is an actual, diagnosable problem.
It's not the same thing as appropriating that diagnosable mental trauma for their petty "If I see the word 'kill' used in conversation I'm going to flip out because I was really traumatized by a horror movie yesterday. =(" made up problems.
If you cannot distinguish one mental trauma from another, then you cannot determine what is made-up and what is not.
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So you admit you have no way to distinguish PTSD from hurt feelings?S*#~ I was about to say "Magic"
It all comes full circle.
It's kinda like porn vs nude art. Hard to define the difference between them exactly, but you know it when you see it.
There are some legitimate uses for "trigger warnings" (such as warning against subjects that actually cause trauma in otherwise normal individuals, such as rape, or murder, or child abuse et al) but you can clearly label the majority of uses of the phrase as a pitiful cry for attention.
No, I don't truly believe someone mentally breaks down every time they see a white person, or the color blue, or fan art of a show they don't like/do like but don't like the context.
And if they do, they should check themselves into a mental hospital because clearly something else is wrong with them.
Additionally, there is much research indicating that the best way to overcome fear and other negative emotional reactions to certain subjects is actually exposure to them.
I have a fear of heights. It can be quite debilitating in some circumstances - it is completely irrational and often overpowering. I don't like heights, will never feel comfortable with them and try to avoid them whenever I can.
While all this is true, the more I am exposed to heights the less I am afraid of them. When I was younger I'd get to the point where if I was near a cliffs edge for too long I'd just break down in tears and refuse to move (by "younger" I don't mean a little kid, by the way). Each time something like that happened it was pretty terrible... but I no longer am quite as afraid. In nature trips and various other circumstances I have found myself again and again confronting that fear, and it has lessened with time.
Now if instead I would have never confronted that fear and society around me was all about encouraging me not to - putting signs everywhere there was a 3 meter drop with bold red words shouting TRIGGER WARNING TERRIFYING HEIGHTS AHEAD WATCH OUT!!!, I would have probably grown *more* afraid of heights, not less. I would have, over time, come to fear 3 meter drops, which wasn't initially the case (they still make me feel queezy but I was always able to function near them).
Trigger warnings might do more harm than good. I'm not sure how this works for traumas rather than phobias, but my personal experience (and common sense!) indicates that trigger warnings are just not that much of a great idea.
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I almost didn't go to watch Jurassic World for much the same reason, Lord Snow. I watched Jurassic Park when I was young and didn't take it well.
Still, I managed to go with my friends last night and enjoy it, even with the tightness in my chest.
And do you believe that if the internet and wider world would have given you trigger warnings every time anything remotely dino related happened it would have helped your case? If before Jurassic Worlds started the screen would have shown a warning that people afraid of dinosaur are going to find this movie terrifying?
And, man... I feel your pain. Disliking dinosaurs sounds sad :(
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Are you really seeing demands for trigger warnings over trivial stuff that frequently? Other than as obvious jokes, anyway.
As I said earlier, I tend to see them for what you suggest as legitimate uses and not for the petty stuff. Which may be why I approve of them and you think they're a problem.
Almost every time I see it mentioned it's for petty stuff or tongue in cheek drive-by insults ("Trigger Warning: This a!*&~@~ <Insert politician you hate>").
Like a few other formerly useful words and phrases (like "privilege" for instance), the SJW culture has kinda burnt "Trigger Warning" as anything that has meaning.
Great now I gotta make a plumber alias to crack sink jokes...
...and sink crack jokes.
I'd file that under "obvious joke".Almost every time I see it mentioned it's for petty stuff or tongue in cheek drive-by insults ("Trigger Warning: This a*%+%$! <Insert politician you hate>").Are you really seeing demands for trigger warnings over trivial stuff that frequently? Other than as obvious jokes, anyway.
As I said earlier, I tend to see them for what you suggest as legitimate uses and not for the petty stuff. Which may be why I approve of them and you think they're a problem.
The website Everyday Feminism uses trigger warnings for just about everything. However:
Editors Note: Like this phenomenal article, Everyday Feminism definitely believes in giving people a heads up about material that might provoke our reader's trauma. However, we use the phrase "content warning" instead of "trigger warning," as the word "trigger" relies on and evokes violent weapon imagery. This could be retraumatizing for folks who have suffered military, police, and other forms of violence. So, while warnings are so necessary and the points in this article are right on, we strongly encourage the term "content warning" instead of "trigger warning".
[Note that following article is linked from another website]
Content Warning: This article discusses triggering in detail and mentions common topics of triggering (sexual assault, anxiety, health anxiety, depression, death, non-specific fears and phobias).
I'll try to add a link here but I'm on a tablet so I'm not sure how well it will work.
Has anyone ever seen a content or trigger warning and actually used it to stop reading and avoid the article or post?
Has anyone ever seen a content or trigger warning and actually used it to stop reading and avoid the article or post?
Somebody somewhere has.
Content warning is not uncommon, and can be useful.
Trigger warning seems to me to promote a world view fueled by fear and political correctness.
Contributor
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I have no idea what the f&*& Vancian means, and if anyone links to Wikipedia rather than explain it I will burn this thread to the ground:-DVancian magic is traditional D&D magic where you memorize spells and the act of casting them removes the spell from your mind.
It's based on the magic used in the stories of Jack Vance, though I'm blanking on story titles at the moment.
Vancian Magic is also used by:
Roger Zelazny, Sir Terry Pratchett, by one sort of magic user in Lawrence Watt-Evan's wonderful Ethshar series, Diane Duane, Patricia C. Wrede,The Obsidian Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory, and Glen Cook.It's likely the second most used magic in Fantasy Literature, after magic that actually drains you physically and/or makes you tired. "Spell points" or Mana where you have so many points a day and use them like a battery (but dont make you tired) is quite rare in Fantasy Literature.
I can't speak to the others, but I suspect the early Pratchett* stuff (The Colour of Magic, etc.) used Vancian magic because that's what D&D used. He's explicitly said that the Luggage comes from his old roleplaying/tabletop gaming days.
By contrast, in Lords and Ladies, there's the suggestion that the Archchancellor's magic just needs a bit of rest to recharge, not unlike the Unchained stamina system.
Just nit-picking; huge Discworld fangirl and all. Carry on. ^_^
*RIP
Nit picking! On the internet no less!
What have you done! The floodgates are open!
Just so long as no one says anything Smurf related we should be fine
Edit: oops :-)
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Has anyone ever seen a content or trigger warning and actually used it to stop reading and avoid the article or post?
Yes.
My wife also knows my common triggers, so that she can give me a heads up, and I can evaluate if I want to, say, watch a particular movie.
Usually I can proceed without any problems, but if I have a day when I'm feeling vulnerable (~10% of the time), I'll stop.
If y'all ever notice the times when I stop going online for a month or so...that's when I pushed ahead when I shouldn't have.
huge Discworld fangirl and all
I knew you were cool.
I confess, my new pet peeve is people calling s+%& "triggers" a trigger is a lever on a gun you pull with your finger, it certainly isn't hang 70s, or pet peeves, it doesn't even fit or make sense :-)
Edit: I do love that my phone auto corrects gun to fun by default, maybe I won't get rid of it after all :-)
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So to summarize the trigger warning issue: Some magazines use content-warnings as a favor to their readers, some people use 'TW' as a part of obvious jokes, and some law students are requesting TWs to maybe avoid genuine issues and maybe skip class.
Yeah, I can see how that last one could be a problem; but overall, color me unimpressed with all the gnashing of teeth over TWs. I wasn't even aware of this TW thing until someone on the internet complained about it -- and I've been through college twice -- so from where I sit all of the noise is coming from people being triggered by trigger warnings themselves. Maybe the internet needs a new TW...
Trigger Warning: The following text contains the words 'trigger warning.'
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Has anyone ever seen a content or trigger warning and actually used it to stop reading and avoid the article or post?
I have, after my daughter passed anything involving the death of a child could bring on a full blown panic attack, even just people causally talking about it, there was a point where trigger warnings helped me a great deal to avoid unnecessary potential suffering.
I found most of what I had to do in that regard was not watch shows on T.V. stop watching the news and if Seth McFarlane is attached in anyway it is to be avoided while the children are awake :-)
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So to summarize the trigger warning issue: Some magazines use content-warnings as a favor to their readers, some people use 'TW' as a part of obvious jokes, and some law students are requesting TWs to maybe avoid genuine issues and maybe skip class.
Yeah, I can see how that last one could be a problem; but overall, color me unimpressed with all the gnashing of teeth over TWs. I wasn't even aware of this TW thing until someone on the internet complained about it -- and I've been through college twice -- so from where I sit all of the noise is coming from people being triggered by trigger warnings themselves. Maybe the internet needs a new TW...
Trigger Warning: The following text contains the words 'trigger warning.'
I think the Internet is to blame for a great deal of the problem with the term. Yes, there are people who have legitimate issues with things. But on the Internet, seemingly every third person has an issue with something, or is an expert on something, or has a relatively rare disease or disorder. After a few years, it just becomes white noise. Sure, sure, you have a disorder and are a 25 year veteran SEAL with extensive training in medieval weapons. I just met someone just like you two threads over.
It's the flavor of the week sort of thing. For a while, many years back, every board, game and chat I was on was flooded with people claiming they were committing suicide. At least four a day. Maybe one out of a hundred or less were serious; the rest were basically begging for attention. I see this now with trigger warnings, with Asperger syndrome, bulling and so on. People latch onto the latest buzz term and see that some people get attention for it and want some too.
And yes, not everyone is trying for attention. But how do you tell? After twenty cases a day, you get a bit too jaded to just take everyone's word for it.
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Has anyone ever seen a content or trigger warning and actually used it to stop reading and avoid the article or post?
Definitely. I am a born again Christian with an LBGT friend, content warnings are great, there is a lot of stuff out there I just don't need to know about and would haunt me if I did.
Is trigger warning harkening back to the day with the epilepsy warning on video games?
I am a born again Christian
As a Christian myself, I knew there were a lot of denominations and such, but I was unaware that we had a subgroup that specifically wasn't born again to where that particular adjective was necessary to point out. It's a bit of a pleonasm, like ATM Machine - the M in ATM implies the machine and renders its mention unnecessary.
*grin*
Sorry. Couldn't help myself. Glad to see a sister of the faith. I totally get where you're coming from. I have some LBGT buddies, and there's stuff I don't want or need to know either.
Edit - I did know what you meant, by the way - the phraseology indicates you're a member of the faith in more than the "if an elephant is born in a tree it's a bird" context. I'm just a smart @$$.
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Interestingly, the people I know that are susceptible to panic attacks are those with the deepest scorn to those trigger warnings. Well, I guess Rynjin can match any of them easily in that regard.
It's also possible that even if you don't avoid them, some things are easier to handle when you've had time to prepare yourself for them. If there's a trigger warning given before the sexual assault legal class, some of those affected by it may be able to deal with it if they were warned in advance rather than walk into class to be greeted by a video of a sexual assault survivor's testimony, for example.
Certainly, and I think most people are not saying that the entire concept of trigger warnings is inherently wrong, merely that the way it is used is... misguided. I know that's what I'm saying, anyway. This article sums up nicely the negative impact I see that the habit of overusing trigger warnings has on real life. I know it's probably not happening in very large numbers and so in not a serious concern, but I also know its a trend that originates in liberal thought and ends up helping people to avoid thinking, which I find very irksome.
And, as I said several times before, I'm going to need to see some actual research data to back up trigger warnings having a positive impact rather than a negative one.