Confessions That Will Get You Shunned By The Members Of The Paizo Community


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I'll have everyone know, I work very hard to cultivate an air of stabby competence, so the village burned down, at least It got rid of the Boggard tribe bothering them... I think, at least a few people survived to pay me :-)


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I don't like kitsune. I just don't. Nothing you can say or do will change my mind about this.


A sorcerer's magic comes from within. That's not "harnessing the outside without a source". It's literally in their blood.

I digress. I still don't like psionics conceptually. You can't make me like it.

And bards are still silly. Versatile, useful, even powerful at times, but silly conceptually. Maybe it's because I'm not a musician, but for all its entertainment value, I've never subscribed to the "magic in the music" school of thinking. You rarely, if ever, see that with other forms of art, even though they can be just as beautiful, nuanced, complicated, and impactful as music.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
A sorcerer's magic comes from within. That's not "harnessing the outside without a source". It's literally in their blood.

For sorcerers, magic comes more-or-less naturally -- a lot like mutant powers come to mutants. For psions, magic is a discipline.* Wilders are the Wheel of Time channelers of D&D.

Anyhow, I'm not crazy about the sci-fi terminology either, but I'm happy to have psionic characters in my games. Precisely because I can simply treat psionics as magic by another name, much like 137ben. I'm actually kinda surprised that nobody -- pro or fan -- has ever gone through the spell chapter and converted each one to a psionic spell. Quite a few of them have already been done officially. (Example: psionic disintegrate.)

*Wild talents throw a wrench into the discipline theme, I guess, but I don't like those and pretend they don't exist.

...Oh right, this thread is about shunning. I SHUN thee, GTG!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Gotta disagree on Bards,

Put your favorite band on your IPod or whatever, then listen to it on a walk, bet it goes quicker and you feel less tired afterwards.

Now go put on Ace of Base or Miley Cyrus... makes you want to throw up doesn't it? :-)

I think I've proven my point :-)


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Randarak wrote:
I don't like kitsune. I just don't. Nothing you can say or do will change my mind about this.

I'm right there with ya. And Tengu.

Sovereign Court

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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Randarak wrote:
I don't like kitsune. I just don't. Nothing you can say or do will change my mind about this.
I'm right there with ya. And Tengu.

Not Tengu! SHUN


lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!


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I hate that the dragon disciple dose not work the way it should with the blood rager...


Weirdly enough I like multifaceted variant magics - not to the point of the 'power sources' methodology in 4e, but I appreciate the idea...which is why I have no problems having divine and arcane magic being different band ranges in a thaumatalogical spectrum, like color in relation to light, while psionics might fit more as a sort of more thermal or electromagnetic analog, emitting from a source as an internal reaction broadcast in a way that may not interact with all things in a similar manner as magic much like how magnetism may not necessarily interact with all things due to non-ferrous nature.

Tangent - I love me some monster races, particularly those who can shape change without taking class levels, and then giving levels in, say, sorcerer or druid.

I blame Dora from Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder.


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thegreenteagamer wrote:

A sorcerer's magic comes from within. That's not "harnessing the outside without a source". It's literally in their blood.

I digress. I still don't like psionics conceptually. You can't make me like it.

And bards are still silly. Versatile, useful, even powerful at times, but silly conceptually. Maybe it's because I'm not a musician, but for all its entertainment value, I've never subscribed to the "magic in the music" school of thinking. You rarely, if ever, see that with other forms of art, even though they can be just as beautiful, nuanced, complicated, and impactful as music.

Even though, as has been stated every time you bring up this particular tack, not a single note of music is required in any way whatsoever to do a bard?


My kingmaker bard went through the entire adventure path without touch an instrument other than a lyre of building, and that only for the specific purpose the magic item was mad for.


RDM42 wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

I digress. I still don't like psionics conceptually. You can't make me like it.

Even though, as has been stated every time you bring up this particular tack, not a single note of music is required in any way whatsoever to do a bard?

you know what sold psionics for me it was the soul knife, when I read that all I could see was Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver fantastic game and that's what made me love psionics ^_^


RDM42 wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

A sorcerer's magic comes from within. That's not "harnessing the outside without a source". It's literally in their blood.

I digress. I still don't like psionics conceptually. You can't make me like it.

And bards are still silly. Versatile, useful, even powerful at times, but silly conceptually. Maybe it's because I'm not a musician, but for all its entertainment value, I've never subscribed to the "magic in the music" school of thinking. You rarely, if ever, see that with other forms of art, even though they can be just as beautiful, nuanced, complicated, and impactful as music.

Even though, as has been stated every time you bring up this particular tack, not a single note of music is required in any way whatsoever to do a bard?

Bardic magic is the magic of artistry, but I think the implementation by means of communication fit with the original intent. Then again, that's why I like kits that focus on variations of artistic expression, and why I would totally make Bardic magic be a blend of actual spells and a special Bardic variation on the Unchained skill abilities (though not to the extent of what rogues should do, though I would be willing to make that effect more of a 'hat' for the Mesmerist class).


pH unbalanced wrote:

Kthulu has it exactly right.

From a mechanical standpoint, it might not make a big difference, but from a thematic standpoint the difference is huge. The types of stories that you would tell with magic are very different than the ones you would tell with psionics -- and it's more than just fantasy vs sf.

That's why I tend to only have one or the other in my worlds, but not both.

Can you elaborate here? I'm really trying to rack my brain over the division between the two in terms of story, and how a Psion is any different from a Sorcerer in that regard.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:

Kthulu has it exactly right.

From a mechanical standpoint, it might not make a big difference, but from a thematic standpoint the difference is huge. The types of stories that you would tell with magic are very different than the ones you would tell with psionics -- and it's more than just fantasy vs sf.

That's why I tend to only have one or the other in my worlds, but not both.

Can you elaborate here? I'm really trying to rack my brain over the division between the two in terms of story, and how a Psion is any different from a Sorcerer in that regard.

this is what im saying and I quote my self ^_^

Riuk wrote:
lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!


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captain yesterday wrote:

Gotta disagree on Bards,

Put your favorite band on your IPod or whatever, then listen to it on a walk, bet it goes quicker and you feel less tired afterwards.

Now go put on Ace of Base or Miley Cyrus... makes you want to throw up doesn't it? :-)

I think I've proven my point :-)

How... how on earth do you justify ranking Ace of Base all the way down there with Miley Cyrus?!?!?!?

I think I have a mindache.

EDIT for clarity: obviously Ace of Base isn't some standard of Musical Excellence, but it still boggles my mind to see them associated with Miley Cyrus tier.


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thegreenteagamer wrote:


And bards are still silly. Versatile, useful, even powerful at times, but silly conceptually. Maybe it's because I'm not a musician, but for all its entertainment value, I've never subscribed to the "magic in the music" school of thinking. You rarely, if ever, see that with other forms of art, even though they can be just as beautiful, nuanced, complicated, and impactful as music.

It doesnt have to be music. Henry the V's St Crispins day's speech is an example of Oratory. It can be dance. It can even be ime, but then The Patrician would have you thrown in the scorpion pits, so.....

Bards are part of Celtic and Irish myth and legend, they inspired with Song, oratory and yes, even Satire.


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Randarak wrote:
I don't like kitsune. I just don't. Nothing you can say or do will change my mind about this.
I'm right there with ya. And Tengu.

Now you're just ravin' dude, and are gonna have to eat crow.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I allow my players to use any race/class/archetype combo that's on d20pfsrd, regardless of whether it's balanced or not.


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DrDeth wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Randarak wrote:
I don't like kitsune. I just don't. Nothing you can say or do will change my mind about this.
I'm right there with ya. And Tengu.
Now you're just ravin' dude, and are gonna have to eat crow.

AAAHHHHHHH!!! THE PUNZZSS!! THE PUNZZSS!!! They hurts uss!!!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I love the profusion of animalistic races, partially because if you pair them with Kingmaker you can play Disney's Robin Hood in Pathfinder, which we all know is a cinematic masterpiece :-)

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:

Kthulu has it exactly right.

From a mechanical standpoint, it might not make a big difference, but from a thematic standpoint the difference is huge. The types of stories that you would tell with magic are very different than the ones you would tell with psionics -- and it's more than just fantasy vs sf.

That's why I tend to only have one or the other in my worlds, but not both.

Can you elaborate here? I'm really trying to rack my brain over the division between the two in terms of story, and how a Psion is any different from a Sorcerer in that regard.

Absolutely.

I'll throw out two of my favorite authors, which I think demonstrate the difference very well.

Sean Stewart has a couple of different books (Ressurection Man, Galveston, The Night Watch) which deal with people with an awakened inborn magical talent dealing with learning how to control it. The important thing here (and what distinguished it from psi) is that the magic itself is still an external (and ultimately more powerful) force. To me this is the clearest thematic depiction of the 3.x Sorcerer.

Sean Stewart derail:
Sean Stewart is easily one of my top 5 sf authors of all time, and it physically pains me that he didn't sell enough to still be writing regularly, despite having won a World Fantasy Award (for Galveston). Galveston is his best known. My favorite is Clouds End. The Night Watch is a very problematic read, but contains two sections which are among the best passages of fiction I have ever read. (I asked him about Night Watch once, and he told me that his publisher had demanded he cut about 20% of the word count less than two months before publication -- given that, it's amazing the book held together at all.) And everyone from East Texas, should read Perfect Circle at some point in their life.

Joan Vinge's Cat series (Psion, Catspaw. Dreamfall) deals with a psion awakening to his power. Because the power is internal, the thematic conflict is more about self-control and self-acceptance.

Joan Vinge derail:
The Snow Queen is, in my opinion, one of the Top 10 sf novels. Read it.

Not to say that there isn't a lot of overlap between the two -- you will certainly see elements of each in the other. But ultimately, when people write about magic, they are usually exploring different problems than when they write about psi. They're drawing from different literary traditions. Which isn't to say you can't write about magic using the language of psi or vice versa -- there are always people doing that. But in those cases, the reframing is a large part of the point of the exercise.

And in a lot of ways, when someone says they like the flavor of one over the other, that's really what they mean, even if they can't articulate. They are more interested in exploring one of those landscapes than the other.

Still a lot of vagaries in my explanation, but hopefully that will get you pointed in the direction to see what I'm talking about.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

Gotta disagree on Bards,

Put your favorite band on your IPod or whatever, then listen to it on a walk, bet it goes quicker and you feel less tired afterwards.

Now go put on Ace of Base or Miley Cyrus... makes you want to throw up doesn't it? :-)

I think I've proven my point :-)

How... how on earth do you justify ranking Ace of Base all the way down there with Miley Cyrus?!?!?!?

I think I have a mindache.

EDIT for clarity: obviously Ace of Base isn't some standard of Musical Excellence, but it still boggles my mind to see them associated with Miley Cyrus tier.

To be honest I went with the top two off the top of my head, sorry to offend the Ace of Base aficionados, next time I shall only use comparably offensive examples like One Direction and The Goo Goo Dolls :-)


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Riuk wrote:
lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!

Because I like different subgenres. I don't have a problem mixing on occasion, but I don't want everything to be giant piles of kitchen sinks.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Great now I gotta make a plumber alias to crack sink jokes...


thejeff wrote:
Riuk wrote:
lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!
Because I like different subgenres. I don't have a problem mixing on occasion, but I don't want everything to be giant piles of kitchen sinks.

well ill just be over here enjoying my equality lol but I get it why sometimes you want plain pizza but ill take the whole restaurant ^_^


Pizza? Someone say pizza?


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Riuk wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Riuk wrote:
lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!
Because I like different subgenres. I don't have a problem mixing on occasion, but I don't want everything to be giant piles of kitchen sinks.
well ill just be over here enjoying my equality lol but I get it why sometimes you want plain pizza but ill take the whole restaurant ^_^

So a grape jelly, Anchovies squid and chocolate ice cream pizza with peppermint on it?


RDM42 wrote:
Riuk wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Riuk wrote:
lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!
Because I like different subgenres. I don't have a problem mixing on occasion, but I don't want everything to be giant piles of kitchen sinks.
well ill just be over here enjoying my equality lol but I get it why sometimes you want plain pizza but ill take the whole restaurant ^_^
So a grape jelly, Anchovies squid and chocolate ice cream pizza with peppermint on it?

when I said the whole restaurant I meant the THE WHOLE RESTERAUNT $_$


RDM42 wrote:
Riuk wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Riuk wrote:
lets just have it all be Sci-Fantasy and be done with this pointless segregation equality for all!!!
Because I like different subgenres. I don't have a problem mixing on occasion, but I don't want everything to be giant piles of kitchen sinks.
well ill just be over here enjoying my equality lol but I get it why sometimes you want plain pizza but ill take the whole restaurant ^_^
So a grape jelly, Anchovies squid and chocolate ice cream pizza with peppermint on it?

I'd try it.


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I am a Josh Whedon fan.

My appreciation for "Firefly" is only equaled by my enjoyment of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".

I love "The Lord of the Rings". It has never ceased to move me since I was a 13 years old kid reading it in the forest, near my parents' home, during the summer holidays.

I enjoy Lovecraft. He was a rare thing : a literary genius of despair.

I love Harry Potter, and laugh heartily at those who critize J.K Rowling's writing skills.

I didn't care much for psionics in PF but what I read in this thread made me want to look at it.

I read this thread because some posts allow me to wallow in a smug sense of disgusting superiority.

And I like to shun (*swoons*) !


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I confess, it's a lot harder coming up with a plumber alias not based on Super Mario Bros, also I'm fresh out of sink jokes, my only hope is someone else will do so in my stead


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Also I've had this Avatar for 3 weeks or so, which for me might be a new record :-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I want to run Carrion Crown as Pathfinder Ghostbusters, which is one of the greatest movies ever made :-)


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I shun you for alias instability !


I know what it's like to want to hog the spotlight !


You've got nothing to say but you want to say it loud and clear !


I say ol' chap!
My instability runs deeper then aliases:-D


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Sometimes the very inanity of superfluous posting will make you roll on the floor in the throes of absurd humour !


Indeed.


Reginald Peabody IV, esquire wrote:

I say ol' chap!

My instability runs deeper then aliases:-D

MY SHUNNING IS LIKE AN X-SOLAR BURN/BURST !


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'll be honest, I'm not as serious in person as I project on here :-)

Edit: I also edit all the time, sometimes to cover up for my dyslexia, sometimes for no reason at all, more often than not tho I just want to throw a smurf into the mix :-)

You may shun me for what I just unleashed of you want, however you should know I regret nothing!!


Cliche British Guy Sipping Tea wrote:
Indeed.

I shan't follow you in the deepest recesses of your tortured psyche !


pH unbalanced wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:

Kthulu has it exactly right.

From a mechanical standpoint, it might not make a big difference, but from a thematic standpoint the difference is huge. The types of stories that you would tell with magic are very different than the ones you would tell with psionics -- and it's more than just fantasy vs sf.

That's why I tend to only have one or the other in my worlds, but not both.

Can you elaborate here? I'm really trying to rack my brain over the division between the two in terms of story, and how a Psion is any different from a Sorcerer in that regard.

Absolutely.

I'll throw out two of my favorite authors, which I think demonstrate the difference very well.

Sean Stewart has a couple of different books (Ressurection Man, Galveston, The Night Watch) which deal with people with an awakened inborn magical talent dealing with learning how to control it. The important thing here (and what distinguished it from psi) is that the magic itself is still an external (and ultimately more powerful) force. To me this is the clearest thematic depiction of the 3.x Sorcerer.

** spoiler omitted **

Joan Vinge's Cat series (Psion, Catspaw. Dreamfall) deals with a psion awakening to his power. Because the power is internal, the thematic...

You're making a perfect case against yourself. Neither of those have anything resembling spell slots of 3e sorcerers. They are both closer to using a pool of energy a la 3.5 psionics.

Silver Crusade

Fraud Freud wrote:
Cliche British Guy Sipping Tea wrote:
Indeed.
I shan't follow you in the deepest recesses of your tortured psyche !

Now, now, gentlemen, let us not derail this thread.

It has a legitimate purpose, I'm sure (*proceeds to die in a fit of insane laughter*)

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
137ben wrote:
You're making a perfect case against yourself. Neither of those have anything resembling spell slots of 3e sorcerers. They are both closer to using a pool of energy a la 3.5 psionics.

Actually, I'm not making any mechanical arguments at all. Only thematic/fluff arguments as to why psionics <> magic.

EDIT: In order to make mechanical arguments, I would have to actually have read the mechanics for 3.x Psionics, which I haven't. I can go into great detail about the mechanical details between Magic and Psionics in GURPS, though. :)


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137ben wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:

Kthulu has it exactly right.

From a mechanical standpoint, it might not make a big difference, but from a thematic standpoint the difference is huge. The types of stories that you would tell with magic are very different than the ones you would tell with psionics -- and it's more than just fantasy vs sf.

That's why I tend to only have one or the other in my worlds, but not both.

Can you elaborate here? I'm really trying to rack my brain over the division between the two in terms of story, and how a Psion is any different from a Sorcerer in that regard.

Absolutely.

I'll throw out two of my favorite authors, which I think demonstrate the difference very well.

Sean Stewart has a couple of different books (Ressurection Man, Galveston, The Night Watch) which deal with people with an awakened inborn magical talent dealing with learning how to control it. The important thing here (and what distinguished it from psi) is that the magic itself is still an external (and ultimately more powerful) force. To me this is the clearest thematic depiction of the 3.x Sorcerer.

** spoiler omitted **

Joan Vinge's Cat series (Psion, Catspaw. Dreamfall) deals with a psion awakening to his power. Because the power is internal, the thematic...

You're making a perfect case against yourself. Neither of those have anything resembling spell slots of 3e sorcerers. They are both closer to using a pool of energy a la 3.5 psionics.

I'm shunning you for entirely missing the point of the poster you're replying to.


Ninja'ed by the legitimate poster. Drat !


pH unbalanced wrote:
137ben wrote:
You're making a perfect case against yourself. Neither of those have anything resembling spell slots of 3e sorcerers. They are both closer to using a pool of energy a la 3.5 psionics.

Actually, I'm not making any mechanical arguments at all. Only thematic/fluff arguments as to why psionics <> magic.

EDIT: In order to make mechanical arguments, I would have to actually have read the mechanics for 3.x Psionics, which I haven't. I can go into great detail about the mechanical details between Magic and Psionics in GURPS, though. :)

To simplify: Psionics is Mana Magic.

It's Magic... cast out of a pool of magical stamina rather than spell slots.

It still uses pre-packaged spells [and as such could be considered the next Step of freedom within Vancian Magic, going from Preparation to Spontaneous to Mana.]

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