I don't think it really does anything except in a few corner situations. For example, if you summon an intelligent creature (an imp named "Larry"), he overhears a conversation while invisible, and then rocks fall and kill him. You can't immediately re-summon Larry to find out what he heard. You can summon his brother Daryl (or his other brother Daryl, for that matter), but Daryl won't know what Larry overheard (nor will his other brother Daryl). The first imp you summoned is a unique snowflake and he can't come back and play for 24 hours.I'm not sure what is meant by this quote. It almost makes me think if you summoned a crocodile, for example, that you wouldn't be able to summon a crocodile again for another 24 hrs. Help me out here.
. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
LOL that clears it up for me thanks - I actually wasn't aware of that rule but I like it and it fits into an adventure I'm running now.
Do you know where that quote from Lord Pendragon is from, just so I know?
Mount torpedo: Summon mounts into a boat until it sinks. Also works on seige towers. Summon mounts until they are too heavy to move forward
hahaha - I like sinking the boat bfobar, excellent!
I think we need a new thread titled "how to abuse the mount spell".
I think the next time I get any wand-using character to a magic shop, he/she is going to load up on "mount" wands...
@AD - Different strokes for different folks buddy. What you see as mundane and silly for others could be fun and imaginative or the opposite could be true as well. Each and every table is different, it's up to that table's GM to figure out where they draw the line and what they will allow and what they think is too cheesy.
If players never tried new/different things with their spells then every game would be pretty boring I'd think. The infusion of creative uses of spells helps the game rather than hinders it.
@AD - Different strokes for different folks buddy. What you see as mundane and silly for others could be fun and imaginative or the opposite could be true as well. Each and every table is different, it's up to that table's GM to figure out where they draw the line and what they will allow and what they think is too cheesy.
If players never tried new/different things with their spells then every game would be pretty boring I'd think. The infusion of creative uses of spells helps the game rather than hinders it.
n3rd, I very deliberately took a light-hearted approach to this instead of calling it "mundane" or "silly". Some of the things posted on this thread are pretty interesting, although I still find it a bit difficult to consider deliberately terrifying, torturing and "killing" animals anything but abuse, even in game. Sure they are summoned and as such they return to their place of summoning when killed, or when the spell runs out, but there is no indication that they don't suffer stress or pain while they are being treated like hunks of useful meat.
I suppose that will be chalked up to me being "judgmental" or something. After all it's only a game, right? It's not like we're actually pretending to BE these characters and pretending that they and their world is REAL is it? I mean that would really be silly I suppose.
I mean if you can sink a ship by filling it with puppies who will then suffer the pain and terror of drowning but then wake up back home with mommy, what's the problem with that anyway?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Do you know where that quote from Lord Pendragon is from, just so I know?
Sorry - I'm not sure where it comes from off the top of my head. If I had to guess, I would say in the Magic chapter prior to spells where various effects are discussed (particularly illusions and summons).
I don't think it really does anything except in a few corner situations. For example, if you summon an intelligent creature (an imp named "Larry"), he overhears a conversation while invisible, and then rocks fall and kill him. You can't immediately re-summon Larry to find out what he heard. You can summon his brother Daryl (or his other brother Daryl, for that matter), but Daryl won't know what Larry overheard (nor will his other brother Daryl). The first imp you summoned is a unique snowflake and he can't come back and play for 24 hours.
Awesome reference. :)
This is how I interpret it as well. Also, if you summon Larry and then torture him, after the spell ends (or after 24 hours if the torture kills him) he may gather his brother Daryl (and his other brother Daryl,) and see about tracking you down and getting revenge.
@AD - Different strokes for different folks buddy. What you see as mundane and silly for others could be fun and imaginative or the opposite could be true as well. Each and every table is different, it's up to that table's GM to figure out where they draw the line and what they will allow and what they think is too cheesy.
If players never tried new/different things with their spells then every game would be pretty boring I'd think. The infusion of creative uses of spells helps the game rather than hinders it.
n3rd, I very deliberately took a light-hearted approach to this instead of calling it "mundane" or "silly". Some of the things posted on this thread are pretty interesting, although I still find it a bit difficult to consider deliberately terrifying, torturing and "killing" animals anything but abuse, even in game. Sure they are summoned and as such they return to their place of summoning when killed, or when the spell runs out, but there is no indication that they don't suffer stress or pain while they are being treated like hunks of useful meat.
I suppose that will be chalked up to me being "judgmental" or something. After all it's only a game, right? It's not like we're actually pretending to BE these characters and pretending that they and their world is REAL is it? I mean that would really be silly I suppose.
I mean if you can sink a ship by filling it with puppies who will then suffer the pain and terror of drowning but then wake up back home with mommy, what's the problem with that anyway?
Yep, that's why I said that it is totally up to each and every GM at each and every table to decide where that line is for them. If the OP doesn't like this at their table then that is their choice to say, "Nope not going to happen at my table."
Silly and mundane are things that are up to each GM to decide and define for themselves. My personal opinion with my mature group of players is that I really enjoy seeing them do or try new things that are outside the norm. Sometimes it can get a little silly, sometimes it can be epically cool, and most of the time it's just a trial and error to see if it works as postulated.
None of my players would ever fill a boat or ship with puppies only to see them drown as part of sinking the ship (not sure how puppies got pulled into this convo when we were talking about a summoned mount...) unless they were playing evil PC's.
The biggest part of this game to me is the creativity factor it allows everyone. As a player I like to try new/different things and see what happens and as a GM I enjoy others doing the same. Guess I'm a pretty dang easy going GM when it comes down to it. I don't like saying "no" unless it's absolutely necessary in my mind as this is a cooperative game in which all of us at the table have a part. I may have made the world, but it's the players who live in it and drive it forward, they are part of the story.
n3rd, I've found that a little bit of reasonable and rational "no" now and then raises the challenge level for creativity, making the result more creative and more interesting at the same time. After all most artists will tell you that creativity is inspired by constraints, not stifled by them.
You are correct, table styles do indeed vary.
To the guy above me, you're thinkin Phantom Steed.
Yeah. I got that. A combination of tweaking the description and way to many spells (and feats, and skills, and archetypes, and...) to memorize will get you there.
If you keep the same summoned creatures every time the spell would suck. Summon an eagle, it gets killed by the bad guy, and then what? Next time you summon a dead eagle?
Depends on how you want to run it. When Ed the Eagle is summon and then killed, and Sal the Summoner chooses to summon another eagle, he could summon Ed again, all nice and healed.
Or he could summon Bob the Eagle (#2 in the eagle line up for Sal the Summoner). A couple days later, when Sal cast summon eagle again, Ed shows up. When Sal is cast a summon spell of high enough level that he gets 1d3 eagles, (and rolls, say, a 3) He gets Ed, Bob, and Mary eagles, and will continue to do so until the end of time.
Another descriptive option is to have a single spirit "assigned" to a caster. When a summon spell is cast, the spirit creates then controls the body. When multiple summon creatures appear, the spirit split its consciousness between the form. In either case, the spirit remembers each of the summoned forms, and how the summoner treated it in that form.
Again, my suggestions/ideas are all description based, not rule changes. Ed may look at you all cross eyed when you send him out to find traps for the fifth time, but he will obey without question. The above spirit may resent being put into a light horse which is immediately light on fire and thrown at the white dragon, but it do as instructed. Its better they feel restricted by their own (or character's own) morals than restricted by the GM's 'house-rules' the rules.
Sorry - I'm not sure where it comes from off the top of my head. If I had to guess, I would say in the Magic chapter prior to spells where various effects are discussed (particularly illusions and summons).
Do you know where that quote from Lord Pendragon is from, just so I know?
Yes, that's absolutely correct pg 210 CRB
You can't summon mounts to sink a boat.
It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
A rowboat is 5x15, a horse is 10x10.
Plus, if the horse being on the object would cause it to break or sink, then it isn't capable of supporting it, making it not a valid location for summoning.