Once I get to 7th level, is it a good idea to Prestige for a while to the vindicator, and what would be the best way to go about sharing levelling between both classes?
I have never multi classed or prestige classed before, so I'm completely in the dark haha. :D
Thanks for any advice!
I'd recommend staying cleric till 8 so you get your secondary domain powers. As for the PrC, it's worth it if:
1) You're a melee cleric with an appropriate build and stats (Str at least 14, better 16, Power Attack, decent HP to survive at the front lines).
2) You use a shield.
3) Your Domain-Powers aren't level dependent or you can live with only 8 effective cleric levels for your domain powers.
4) Having a few Channels to spare doesn't hurt, either (Cha not a dumpstat, and maybe extra channel)
As for how many levels, I'd take either 4 for heavy armor, martial weapon, the sacred AC bonus and +1 BAB or go all the way to level 10 for the swift action Stigmata.
if you go into the high levels is worth it. As blave said, focus on melee and use a shield. Stigmata gives you up to +5 to hit on top of a full bab, and channel shield can up you CA by +7-8 making you untouchable.
8th cleric/full vindicator is the best sequence.
Let me give you a more literal answer; we don't know since we aren't sure the details of your character. What are his ability scores, feats, domains, and does he use a shield?
I'd recommend staying cleric till 8 so you get your secondary domain powers. As for the PrC, it's worth it if:
1) You're a melee cleric with an appropriate build and stats (Str at least 14, better 16, Power Attack, decent HP to survive at the front lines).
2) You use a shield.
3) Your Domain-Powers aren't level dependent or you can live with only 8 effective cleric levels for your domain powers.
4) Having a few Channels to spare doesn't hurt, either (Cha not a dumpstat, and maybe extra channel)As for how many levels, I'd take either 4 for heavy armor, martial weapon, the sacred AC bonus and +1 BAB or go all the way to level 10 for the swift action Stigmata.
1. That's a shame. Strength is 12, iirc. I don't have Power Attack, but I can quite easily. I add a point in Strength when I reach Level 4, and take it as an extra feat at 5th level.
2. Yep.3. Well my domains are Fire and Sun, so the Sun secondary power would be fine, and the Fire secondary would be activated, but at it's weakest "version".
4. Yeah, Channel Energy isn't a problem, I don't think.
Ah, that's really helpful thanks. It's a character thing that his only weapon is a Flaming Longsword, so the martial weapon proficiency isn't that useful, but of course excellent if he changes his mind! Also the heavy armour would be fantastic.
Character Sheet is at my GM's house, so I can't remember my ability scores, but I know my feats are Channel Smite, Extra Channel and Selective Channeling.
with 12 strengh the short answere is don't bother, stick with full caster.
with 12 strengh the short answere is don't bother, stick with full caster.
That's a shame, but fair enough. Please can I be really thick and ask what strength is needed for with the vindicator?
It a melee base class that will melee attack so if your STR is low it will not be as effecttive. If you are some other STAT base melee guy then you can get a round it.
Strength 12 is a bit low, but it can still work. My eldritch knight has 16, which is better but still not extremely good and he's good enough in combat. You won't be at the top of DPR but if you focus on buffing for the first combat round(s) it should be ok. Just don't expect to be more than decent in melee.
You'll need to invest heavyly to make melee worthwhile. Get a good weapon, focus on +x enchantments over elemental damage or other things. Also, get a belt of giant strength asap. It'll allow you to get power attack without raising strength (though increasing strength is still a good idea). Also, try to get as many attack and damage bonuses as possible. Weapon focus, buffs and so on. Also going full Vindicator is a good idea so you get the additional BAB and stigmata for a beter chance to hit.
It's a shame you already got channel smite as Vindicator would grant it for free eventually. Any chance your GM lets you switch it for something else? Like steel soul, weapon focus or something like that?
Ah, right, of course! Sorry, it's so obvious. Well my GM seems pretty forgiving with characters, so I'm sure he won't mind. Thank you all for your advice, I will definitely take all of this on board re: boosting the strength and levelling the vindicator. Really appreciate all of this, you've been so helpful! :3
Does the whole shtick of the Holy vindicator appeal to you? The over the top Catholic imagery of the bleeding Stigmata? If so, go for it. It creeps me out a bit myself, and I'm favorably inclined towards Catholics.
I am Catholic, actually haha! It kind of does, yes. Something about sacrificing yourself wholly for your faith is pretty stirring, methinks. This character is a red priest from A Song of Ice and Fire, trying to find the reborn messiah of his religion, so that sacrifice works quite well. I can definitely see why it would creep you out though. xD
So what would be classed as "decent HP"? Currently he is on 25 at Level 3. That sounds a lot to me because my old Halfling had 10, but compared to others I'm not sure... However, I chose +1 to HD instead of in skill ranks so that counts for something, right?
25 is good enough at level 3, even more so if you use a shield for extra AC.
This is unnecessary I know, but if I any if you check back on this, you should know that I got it completely wrong, and my attack is 15, next level 16. I meet all your recommendations, and I am looking forward to becoming a proper Vindicator! Cheers again, amigos!
I would second everything said above, especially the Clr 8 full Holy Vindicator and shield and melee focus.
I played one in my RoTRL game. http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/scott-s-rise-of-the-runelords-campa ign/characters/geth
Now, that character got killed when I wasn't around by a bad read of the character sheet (they thought my spell list illegally included anti-magic sphere at that level). Combined with the actually pretty characteristic almost suicidal/self-sacrificing high-defense/step up and soak damage tactic of the character...that got him killed. Good news, his sacrifice got the big bad, the bad, he couldn't get resurrected for a pretty horrible reason I won't say.(it didn't help that the good aligned cleric was taken out of the fight beforehand so no healing).
I'd say from my experience, unless you bump up your bab (15-16 str is pretty decent at your level?) and keep on some good buffs and magic items you're not going to make a good frontliner.
I tried. When I got my AC up high (primarily with vindicator's shield) and laid on the channel smite (which was almost always less preferable to my characters negative energy selective channel burst) and destructive smite...I did ok. once I started getting hit (and this is what killed him btw) he had to back off and rebuff. Seriously, Bull Str and Divine Power and other self-buffs and group buffs are the way to go...if you can pre-buff before battle (up your CL if you can to increase duration) I also made sure to barkskin as much as I could (which was better as a stable AC increase than the vindicator's shield).
Also, if you don't mind heavy armor, that'll up your survivability (mithral is your friend if you want mobility).
Also, my mwk morningstar didn't level well. I unfortunately had a pretty poor cleric since the evil wizard was taking most of the magic items and I wasn't tracking my wealth well. That said, your flaming longsword is better.
Have fun!
It is a decent BAB, decent hd class and if you like and can utilize the abilities well, go for it. And yeah don't dump CHA, mine was kind of low.
I had fun playing my character, but he was doomed from the start (bit of a deathwish and not enough time to buff at times since the high-powered wizard and barb would just blow up on the bads). Low str kept him low on damage. 2-handing is out with the shield (get a good one and upgrade as you can).
I don't think I fought defensively enough for my character btw. High AC is not an easy route, but if you can get it up high and level appropriate and still keep up your DPR, go for it.
On the point of Channel Smite, my GM let me replace the Holy Vindicator freebie with a reasonable Channel Feat, yours should too.