punkassjoe's page

Some time ago I came up with a character concept that I had for re-entry at mid-high level for Rise of the Runelords...a "foxhole" convert to Shelyn Cavalier (Luring/Strategist archetypes). I never got a roll a dice in the Rise of the Runelords, but new game group, new dm and it will be Wrath of the Righteous. I'm a bit indecisive, but with the Mythic Options, most of my predetermined character decisions for the RotRL fell a bit short then (but didn't get to play out my final decisions) and now seem to open up with WotR (Cav 8/Clr 3 was the original concept, more martial than divinely powered). I will try talking out options with DM, but he ok'd non-core PF materials that I had familiarity and access too. I had settled on the Luring + Strategist archetypes before and thought that a Shelyn worshiping build along those lines with my character concept would work well for this game. Back up character will likely be an Aasimar Paladin Marshal/Hierophant so no hard choices there, thanks. ;)

I find myself questioning the cleric dip and even with the Touch of Divinity (with or without a cleric/paladin archetype) I'm wondering if my idea of multi-classing was misguided. I think I will take advantage of this trait no matter how I advance my half-elf Order of the Star cavalier, but I wanted at least 1 level of either cleric or paladin to start. Advice? From a narrative perspective, I wouldn't be against focusing martial first and then becoming more divinely focused (I know hierophant will help with that, though it may not be my final/only pick for a path)

If someone else picks Paladin I will be more likely to go Cavalier/Cleric. Likewise if someone goes Cleric, I will fee less pressure to take on that role. Though I could see the party working with two differently minded Paladins or Clerics. I just don't want to dump healing and spells too much in exchange for my martial abilities should I go that route. Hierophant or dual path with Guardian/Marshal are what I'm looking at once we go Mythic.

We are starting higher level than I think the AP normally does with 3rd (though my DM did allow us the opportunity to get TPK'd in a previous module detour in Savage Tides so I expect him to not pull any punches if we go off the rails again).

Long-range, reach weapon build to me will be something like Minimum 8 Cav with limited spellcasting as Cleric 12 (maybe as low as 6-8 with the Luck Domain).

I know I'll be killing my casting if I go anything more than a 3 level Dip away from Cleric, which makes me consider a Divine Hunter Pally/Cleric (possibly Divine Strategist or Crusader) the rest of the way build. Haven't thought that one all the way through, but I'm liking Cavalier so I don't want to set it aside entirely. Order of the Dragon Strategist archetype is my fall back for a straight Cavalier.

I consider the character primarily a battlefield convert/agent of Greengold lost love type with reluctant leadership possibly focus on protetion and settling differences before striking. Clever combat is key and I had some of my feat trees picked. Primary weapons will be Glaive/Glaive-guisarme (possibly and Longbow switch hitting.

The Long Game for WotR is something I haven't, and can't fully consider, but I don't want to hamstring my character and the party too much. My last multi-class Cleric was high on Roguish skills and low on healing and spells (though that was exacerbated by the impetuousness of the party).
Party composition this time is mostly unknown, but at least one Martial focused and one secondary spellcaster (if no one picks arcane I may reincarnate my Tiefling wizard). 4 players most likely, but could see us picking up a 5th.

And as much as I hate to throw even more options at you guys, I'm not entirely against my first 2-3 levels as a dip in Fighter/Pally/Cavalier and then focusing on Cleric. I have a feeling that HD will help even with Mythic buffs. I like multiple paths though, but the Touch of Divinity trait seems the most attractive to the character (Defence subdomain), though Child of the Crusade would be my second pick (and thus Marshal focus). I may drop Cleric entirely and focus on Cavalier/Paladin with mount as secondary to switch hitting for support.

Thoughts? Advice? Experiences with similar concepts? Words of praise/Critique for WotR and/or Mythic Characters?

Some time ago I came up with a character concept that I had for re-entry at mid-high level for Rise of the Runelords...an in the midst of battle convert to Shelyn Cavalier (Luring/Strategist archetypes). I never got a roll a dice in the Rise of the Runelords, but new game group, new dm and it will be Wrath of the Righteous.

I find myself questioning the cleric dip and even with the Touch of Divinity (with or without a cleric/paladin archetype) I'm wondering if my idea of multi-classing was misguided. I think I will stick to this trait no matter how I advance my half-elf cavalier of the order of the star, but I wanted 1 level of either cleric or paladin. Advice?

If someone else picks Paladin I will be more likely to go Cavalier/Cleric. Though I could see the party working with two differently minded Paladins. I just don't want to dump healing and spells too much in exchange for my martial abilities. Hierophant or dual path with Guardian/Marshal are what I'm looking at once we go Mythic.

We are starting higher level than I think the AP normally does (though my DM did allow us the opportunity to get TPK'd in a previous module detour in Savage Tides).

Long-range build to me will be something like Minimum 8 Cav with limited spellcasting as Cleric 12 (maybe as low as 6-8 with the Luck Domain).

I know I'll be killing my casting if I go anything more than a 3 level Dip, which makes me consider a Divine Hunter Pally/Cleric (possibly Divine Strategist or Crusader) the rest of the way build.

Thoughts? I consider the character primarily a battlefield convert/agent of Greengold lost love type with reluctant leadership possibly focus on protetion and settling differences before striking. Clever combat is key and I had some of my feat trees picked. Primary weapons will be Glaive/Glaive-guisarme (possibly and Longbow switch hitting. Long Game for WotR is something I haven't, and can't fully consider, but I don't want to hamstring my character too much. Party composition is mostly unknown, but at least one Martial focused and one secondary spellcaster (if no one picks arcane I may reincarnate my Tiefling wizard). 4 players most likely, but could see us picking up a 5th.

And as much as I hate to throw even more options at you guys, I'm not entirely against my first 2-3 levels as a dip in Fighter/Pally/Cavalier and then focusing on Cleric. I have a feeling that HD will help even with Mythic buffs. I like multiple paths though, but the Touch of Divinity trait seems the most attractive to the character (Defense subdomain), though Child of the Crusade would be my second pick (and thus Marshal focus). I may drop Cleric entirely and focus on Cavalier/Paladin with mount as secondary to switch hitting for support.

I'm a bit indecisive, but with the Mythic Options, most of my predetermined character decisions for the RotRL fell short then and now seem to open up with WotR (Cav 8/Clr 3 was the original concept, more martial than divinely powered). I will try talking out options with DM, but he ok'd non-core materials I had familiarity and access too. I had settled on the Luring Strategist archetype before and thought that a Shelyn worshiping build along those ideas would work well for this game. Back up character will likely be an Aasimar Paladin Marshal/Hierophant so no hard choices there.

I just want to say, the Savage Tide CP is my favorite of all. You are going to need a strong cleric for the campaign. Definitely go with the Evangelist cleric or consider the Inquisitor. Have fun riding the Savage Tide!

Thanks. I am looking forward to it myself and it should be a lot of fun.

Since I will most likely be limited to the Core Rulebook (this is a first time PF game for half the party and we want fairness and lots of Role Playing, maybe that's my goal, but I know my experienced PF friend enjoys it as well.) So archetypes and likely the inquisitor are straight out (also, not really the character's style). I'll have to be picky, but I'll try to stay cleric and not throw away a level. if I dip, I'd like to minimize the damage. I am only level 1, considering I will be utilizing class skills almost entirely from here on out, it shouldn't be much of a stretch to say I'll focus on the essential gameplay, role play and mostly Cleric essentials. Still, I'll have a hard time resisting a skill point infusion at 2nd or later for Rogue or maybe a decent PRC. To be fair, we haven't started playing yet, so there's room to figure out where the character is going and where things fit in the party composition. I'm not looking for highly optimized, but I am looking for flexible and not overly wasteful. I will take caster levels.

To respond directly to Magda for a moment. I probably would have played a Bard, but I niced my way into Cleric and my friend took up the Arcana mantle. Besides a Cleric of Olidmarra is better than a bard just about.
Normally, no, I wouldn't expect to have a skill heavy Cleric. I like clerics and they don't need a lot of skills (hell, buffing can make me good enough at some skills that I won't need to dump rank after rank into non-survival/non-face based skills).

My skill goals are High Bluff with a paired up Sense Motive. Increasingly better Diplomacy and Intimidate, a situational sleight of hand and respectable to above average Knowledge Religion and Planes. Apart from learning how to swim, climb and acrobat better, I don't need much else that I can't build up with as the levels go on.

Overall,
I appreciate the advice and I will run some ideas by the GM about archetypes, The GM is also a first timer at PF, though I reckon he knows the Savage Tide well enough to tell a good story.

Likely this will not be a TPK waiting to happen scenario, at least not if we add a 5th player. I already managed to talk him into that extra district feat, so I don't want to press my luck further (also recommended the APG). We simply have to keep it simple.

If there is a way to maintain my spell list with PrCs (a decision to be made later in the game anyway, just the prereqs have to be decently meshing with things) I might go it. Leaning more Lore Master, as tempting as Chronicler was on first lookover, losing ALL further spell progression is pretty suck, it may come with reasonably cool abilities, but it is silly and a waste of 10 skill ranks to go that way without spell levels (again, as Treantmonk stated "Bards really are the sum of their parts," and Pathfinder Chronicler feels the same, plus benefits most from Bard.

I don't mind multiclassing for free for a dip, but I'm not going to go Bard like I had hoped before crunching numbers, it wouldn't work well enough, though spell progression for both arcane and divine is probably more tempting than it is worth (cleric hits stride and doesn't change up much after 8th apart from keeping up the channel. While arcane magic will be for sure the domain of the Sorc, I do feel that I'll be shouldering most of the divine magical power. So...yeah. May need to to not miss much there. We will have a Rogue in the party, but she may well multi-class or focus on getting into Shadowdancer. I might have been better starting off as a Rogue as far as Skill points, but I like that I don't have to do that in PF. If I want to add some more Rogue flair to my Cleric, I can. I don't feel compelled to level up just to increase my channel die- if it helps my domain powers enough, I will, but really- the cleric is straight forward and stable, and I want something a little more weird.

Olidammara would want me to enjoy the game in any case! ;D I

Trickery Domain clerics, fyi Get a nice set of rogue skills as class skills. When I add a bonus feat, "Academy Graduate," from Savage Tides giving me MORE class skills in CHA and INT my high CHA/INT character gets more interesting, but yes that lack of skill points is starting to hurt, having great stats only will bring up those checks so high, getting bardic knowledge or a lore type power might help with the KNOWLEDGE checks I feel reluctant to pump up with SP. As it is I have all the class skills I need just about (Sleight of hand actually being one of the few trained only I don't have access to already). (I might still ask about evangelist, though losing Luck would suck, the domain powers and spells for Trickery just about make up for it).

After cosplaying, yes I did this for a character portrait photo shoot, I get the feeling that the character really is a roguish cleric trying to start a career as a Minstrel/Bard, and not really being dedicated enough to the profession of Minstrel itself so much as his faith in Olidammara and Rudd (possibly also Kuroth) and his expression of those beliefs and instincts. He is, as I like to call him, a vagabond cleric and born and raised minstrel.

The Seekers seem to be a good association to go Lore Master OR Pathfinder Chronicler for, so any thoughts on that specifically would be appreciated. The rogue dip is haunting me.

Full casters almost never dip well unfortunately, and clerics suck at skills, even with a dip. Ideally if you want a divine caster who's a skill monky too, you want an oracle or an inquisitor, but never a cleric or a paladin. 2+ skillpoints and MAD for everything but intellect stings.

Edit: In 3.5 I think there was a cleric/bard hybrid PrC. Might've been the Fochlucan Lyrist, or something like that.

Sad to say the Fochlucan Lyrist was BEST done with a Druid and is way crazy hard to get into anyway. Wouldn't be an option I'd take...

I am looking at Lore Master, Pathfinder Chronicler, Mystic Theurge and even Duelist as possible PrCs (The last if it seems the group needs more BAB and I qualify by then). Advise on that would help. Still considering a Rogue dip at least. Nice to see that Lore Master and Pathfiner Chronicler both have Bardic Knowledge like abilities that would stack- if I WAS a true Bard those would be really fun, but not bummed that if I went both they would stack with each other in that regard.

A Rogue dip would make my skill points go up by 13 each level I'd take, I'd just have to take Rogue as my second Multiclass. Considering it, though not super favorable, the character feels roguish enough to warrant it, but I don't feel like a CLERIC of Olidammara NEEDS to be either a Bard or a Rogue to FEEL Roguish and like a Minstrel (even if not the best one).

Archetypes are pretty much out since the DM is preferring to go PF Core (why my prestige options are all Core Rule Book too).

In any case, I am looking forward to the campaign and will not be switching out of Cleric lvl 1 for sure. Gotta get at least 6 or 8 on it though for those domain powers. So 2 level dip before PRC dedication or multiclass adherence is an option I wouldn't take off the table. I'm fine not being the heaviest of casters, but some later Luck and Trickery spell aren't bad, and of course Clerics just get better, still I think I am fine with an 8th level Cleric before PrC spell levels at least.

I'm strongly considering the multiclass on a low level. Certainly with my domains of Luck/Trickery I won't likely switch over to Bard for good (at least until 6th or 8th Cleric). Starting play as a level 1 Cleric (above average stats, Str15 Dex16 Con13 Int 16 Wis15 Cha17) Party composition is Dancing Combat Rogue, Strong Sorc, Buff as a Demi-God crazy dex glass cannon Ranger, and me...half-elf Minstrel Cleric of Olidammara and Rudd (figure it wouldn't hurt since she IS a subbordinant deity and her favored weapons are Rapier and Shortbow, so I can get that shortbow proficiency- I like multi-deity faithful devotions, while it might smack of cherry picking I think it fits the character as partly a hopeless romantic artist and driven dastardly ne'er do well).

Personally I'm digging the crossover artist minstrel and vagabond cleric motifs, with "Academy Graduate" as a bonus feat and a decent Int, it might work out well being a Bard Cleric as far as extra knowledge skills and performance (HIGH Cha, Skill focus for Singing likely- though I was partial to Bluff).

Some problems going pure cleric, even with a +3 int and favored class bonus, 6 skill points is painfully small for a skill heavy concept, I'm fine being bad at some things, to hit included, but I've read enough that multiclassing a bard character isn't worthwhile by much, but can my Cleric benefit? Tossing around the relatively ill-advised Mystic Theurge prc, which seems tempting- could be a trap (but for spell levels in both classes, might be worth a dip) but more than likely this will be a straight Multiclass build, heavy on the cleric until 10th level or so. Current plan, which I'm hoping gets critiqued:

Aiming for at least 4 levels of Divine spells, at what point should I start multi-classing into Bard? I'm considering it for my next level for skills, proficiencies and flavor and game-play enhancing abilities.

Considering 2ndLvl Clr1/Bard1 3rd-7th Clr2-6 8th Bard2 then alternate to get Clr7-8 Bard 3-7/8-9, capping with Cleric or Mystic Theurge prestige (possibly earlier). Wish it was gestalt. Oh well. Please help. I'm not sure if the AP goes to 20, and typically waiting long times sounds less fun for some abilities. So advice there. What are the essentials to make a bard enhanced Cleric? Cleric, to me, has a minimum investment of 8 levels to really get those Domain goodies. Feels like Bard is built similarly... With the like minimum less level dependent stuff coming in by 6th (while I like the idea of Dirge of Doom, 7th level seems to me to be the likely cap) :/

I want to be a happy Olidammara Minstrel Cleric!

Feels like of all Clerics, Olidammara clergy would have some multi-class bards. I might still reconsider my free Multi-class in a Rogue dip, but not really my cup of tea, worth it for the skill points and ease of damage upgrade I guess.

Thoughts? I think I can manage in an weirdly overpowered party that isn't highly optimized in this AP (no spoilers please, I've had enough already). How would you weirder ones do it? And for fun and profit please.

Back in 3.5, I had some effectiveness with a Barbarian/Ranger with the Archery Feat Track. While I haven't run the numbers in PF, I'd figure this would be relatively easy to replicate (and you could still use a bow! recommending an Adaptable (variable strength bonus to damage) Composite Longbow).

Throwing axes are fairly cheap and effective slashing weapons in melee, add Quick Draw as the feat and there you go. (ranged feats being: Point Blank shot for sure, rapid shot for an extra attack, Far shot for reducing range penalties and Manyshot. Precise Shot includes thrown weapons explicitly and doesn't hurt.).

Javelins aren't bad, and pilums can take an opponent's shield bonus away, it just made more sense to me to use throwing axes since they could also be used in melee. Light Hammers are also an option.

Consider the Returning weapon property if you consider my idea fun.

I would recommend the Hurler archetype as well, in spirit. I haven't looked at it yet. (I rather liked having fast movement with MY barbarian ranger.

My character (8th level) had an epic win moment against a low flying opponent when he unleashed a flurry of axes at him while raging.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Wolfthulhu wrote:

Breast Plate + Armored Kilt = Heavy Armor. Heavy Armor + Mithril = Medium Armor.

That's how I'd do it.

If we do it this way we have an answer to the "mithral heavy armor + armored kilt" question because:

Heavy armor + kilt = not possible. Not possible + mithral = doesn't matter.

I think somewhere I confused you, but yes. the math doesn't work. Light and light become medium anyway. proficiency would still be heavy and making a medium armor heavy is the limitation of the kilt. It doesn't make a half-weight light armor, light armor, it makes it medium. If there remains any doubt in my mind about this distinction should it come up, I'll try a quick chat with my DM and the resident rules lawyer.

punkassjoe wrote:

I've gone the Mithral Agile Breastplate route and added an Armored Kilt. While I would like to make BOTH Mithral and thus have a "Light" suit of "Heavy" armor...I understand that may well be broken. IF it is cheaper and just as effective to do a Mithral Breastplate with a REGULAR kilt as it would still qualify as "Medium" armor for speed...I'll just do that.

Essentially, if anyone is still responding to this, final word on Mithral Medium Armor +(Mithral) Kilt =20ft or 30ft speed?

I would love the +10ft but considering my character will often enough be mounted, this isn't really a big issue except closing in on foot after the barbarian rushes in.

Necromancers shouldn't wear armor.

Noted. Glad I'm not playing one. ;)

punkassjoe wrote:

Essentially, if anyone is still responding to this, final word on Mithral Medium Armor +(Mithral) Kilt =20ft or 30ft speed?

20ft. The mithril quality affects the armor as a whole. So medium armor + kilt = heavy armor. Mithril heavy armor is treated as medium armor.

Thanks, pardon the thread resurrection, but after much sifting I couldn't get that specific issue spelled out effectively. Mithral Light and (Mithral) Armored Kilt might allow 30ft, but I still would figure that adds up to "Medium" Armor so my only recourse for an on foot (non-magical) speed increase is to drop the kilt (as it were) and/or dip Barbarian. The only real advantage to mithraling the kilt then would be to reduce its weight (which is why I wonder about armor encumbrance changing).

As it is, I'm planning on more of a hang in the back and charge in on horseback/"aggro" the big bad to turn the tide of battle kind of character (cleric3/strategist luring cavalier8). So 20ft isn't a let down, I'd just rather be accurate, I could drop it and get 30ft and the same AC by making my breastplate +2...I just kind of want to use that 2nd +1 bonus for the "Champion" armor quality and wear a kilt for the hell of it.

From what I've read it can be added to a suit of armor, or made for a suit, but effectively acts as part of the suit, while I think I could swap it with some easy checks, that shouldn't be a major issue. I think I might mithral the kilt anyway, just to be sure to gain the benefits of wearing mithral armor. There's some suggestion that it wouldn't really matter, but I've heard enough mention of it needing to be mithral to work as mithral armor overall (or at least it effectively has to be the same or not have a special material). I'm fine with whatever. It just got confusing and I don't want to come to my dm with more oddball equipment and no explanation or an illegal number. I'll probably just simplify and do my math where necessary.

I've gone the Mithral Agile Breastplate route and added an Armored Kilt. While I would like to make BOTH Mithral and thus have a "Light" suit of "Heavy" armor...I understand that may well be broken. IF it is cheaper and just as effective to do a Mithral Breastplate with a REGULAR kilt as it would still qualify as "Medium" armor for speed...I'll just do that.

Essentially, if anyone is still responding to this, final word on Mithral Medium Armor +(Mithral) Kilt =20ft or 30ft speed?

I would love the +10ft but considering my character will often enough be mounted, this isn't really a big issue except closing in on foot after the barbarian rushes in.

I am not sure what you're trying to do here:

punkassjoe wrote:

1. Drop tied melee weapon, free action I believe.

Correct.

punkassjoe wrote:

(Cast with right is a given, I used a cleric effectively with that strategy).

Are you saying you ARE casting a spell right now? If so, fine (but see my last paragraph below).

punkassjoe wrote:

2. Draw a bow or separate item with free hand (likely a quickdraw throwing shield)? Free action with quickdraw, likely not moving unless 5 ft adjust to a square containing the weapon.

Square containing what weapon? Isn't it dangling from your wrist by a weapon cord?

In any case, you can draw a bow or shield (or anything else) as a move action. With QuickDraw, you can draw weapons as a free action. Since shields are on the weapon list, it's very likely that QuickDraw can be used to draw a shield. Equipping a shield (if you want the AC bonus) requires a move action and QuickDraw doesn't help with that.

punkassjoe wrote:

3. if 2. is doable, may I also fire that bow? (if theoretically possible, should I/could I? load it with an arrow loaded springloaded wrist sheathe? (or utilize that shield same round/next round?

You don't need a springloaded arrow - loading a bow is part of the action of firing it (or in other words, it's a free action to take an arrow from your quiver and put it into your bow for firing - this is why high level fighters prefer bows over crossbows because they can fire a bow multiple times in a round since loading requires no actions. Crossbows, however, require move or even full-round actions to load them unless you take Rapid Reload to make it faster.

Because you don't need any actions to load the bow, you can definitely shoot it the same round you draw it, even if you don't have QuickDraw (it's only a move action to draw a weapon leaving your standard action to fire the bow and changing the move action to a free action to draw the bow is irrelevant, other than you would still have a full round to...

pardon, this was all over the place. I believe the rules as intended would certainly keep you from changing weapons with the cord attached and the weapon in hand. the issue would be to use another weapon in that hand (dropped corded weapon), especially Making use of a bow or even just a one handed weapon. A Quickdraw shield allows usage as a free action with the Quickdraw feat, out of interest in action economy and a overwhelming desire to act like Captain America in game makes me want to also make that shield a throwing shield (questionable item creation, but at least it is mundane).

Should I be barred from changing weapons with the cord weapon dropped, I would cut it (move action) and be able to pick it up in my square or an adjacent after resolving any other remaining actions/turn issues.

I think I should definitely streamline my questions.

Action should go like this 1. Drop weapon (to switch/cast) 2. Use other item/cast. 3. use swift action to regain weapon (again, while possible to drop, shoot, regain weapon, it is more likely to work with a second turn, requiring at least at one point full hands.

The finer task restriction is worth bringing up with my DM. might work with a held touch spell/heal, but maybe not.

Ideally, I'd be dropping my two-hander, likely to bow or shield up (if I go twf, then a one-hander as well). The issue is whether or not it is worth even bothering using a weapon cord if it gets in the way of action economy.

I think the item isn't well described (found another thread asking how long to actually attach the cord. forum agreed that the weapon would already be tied and usable with a 2ft reach when the weapon is drawn.)

I suppose I am needlessly complicating things. The springloaded sheath was superfluous should I have a quiver on me. (which I would), but I was considering stashing a set of strategic/tactically useful arrows in the sheathe (magic or mundane, perhaps weapon blanched). If I did use that to pull arrows from, that would be a swift and I certainly wouldn't be able to pick up my cord weapon same turn.

Alternatively, I could weapon cord the bow. Luring cavalier works in one direction for Far Challenge at first. Long range, then regular challenge when attacked in melee. at which point dropping the bow would be necessary. quickdraw two-hander or quickdraw shield and one-hander. I guess the trick I was looking to see how it might work (or not) is switching back and forth (Casting would also be easy with a shield I can drop freely). To that end, I may need some advice still.

If the throwing shield can be thrown as a free action, I wouldn't see the point of Equipment Tricking the Release option (unless I want to change shields) even though it says you can release a throwing shield as a free action with that trick.
Casting with the off-hand that ISN'T tied should be easier than a corded hand with a dropped weapon. Still, for my previous Holy Vindicator, casting wasn't brought up as an issue with his weapon corded Morning star (though I didn't know it existed yet, I had used a leather loop that let me drop the mace to free his hand- probably shouldn't have worked.)

Well, pfsrd.com says "Unlike a locked gauntlet, you can still use a hand with a weapon cord, though a dangling weapon may interfere with finer actions." which does kind of say it interferes with other weapons, but nothing about the degree of interference.

I suppose it would be a minimum of -1 to attack and maybe the same to damage?. Perhaps more if using a ranged weapon, at least on the attack roll, but since there's no mechanic on it, hard to say.

While I think you could potentially draw with the off hand and still utilize the tied hand to say fire a bow, that would certainly incur a penalty. And of course the "cannot switch to a different weapon" would be the killer.

Noted in the text for Weapon cord, it requires you to take a full-round action to change weapons. So lets say I tie it to a weapon I am using (prior to this example) in my right hand or preferably BOTH hands, but tie it to my right arm. As a cleric, I could drop the item and cast (or if I am disarmed I would also be unarmed) If the item is on the ground (yet still close as in the text), may I draw a weapon that I would hold with my Left hand? (quick draw feat, possible spring loaded weapon sheathe combo). Ideally, I would be able to perform the following actions with a dropped weapon cord item:

1. Drop tied melee weapon, free action I believe.
(Cast with right is a given, I used a cleric effectively with that strategy).
2. Draw a bow or separate item with free hand (likely a quickdraw throwing shield)? Free action with quickdraw, likely not moving unless 5 ft adjust to a square containing the weapon.
3. if 2. is doable, may I also fire that bow? (if theoretically possible, should I/could I? load it with an arrow loaded springloaded wrist sheathe? (or utilize that shield same round/next round? Btw, isn't a throwing shield a free action to drop if it is a free action to throw? Option of just throwing the shield at the opponent when they close or flee attractive as well).
4. If enemy closes, (this would be to take advantage of Far Challenge to normal Challenge from the Luring Cavalier), could I then recover my dropped melee weapon as a swift action? (this presumes I didn't just use a swift action on a spring-loaded wrist sheath, as this would likely be on a separate round than the first 3 actions).

if the above action tree more or less works with cutting the cord ove action with a free hand I guess?) then I'd be amenable to having to pick it up in a preferably non-adjacent square. Any quirks I should know about should this be a two-handed weapon I attach to the cord?

I realize it may be gimmicky or even just dismissed in some groups and that a quickdraw character could manage something like this easily without a cord, but would the cord just get in the way? The finer action bit is certainly notable, it might be argued to interfere with casting, but I'm hoping the situation doesn't change with that. It may well interfere with firing a bow if tied to the drawing and knocking hand, but I figure it may be less of an issue for the holding hand.

Celestial Plate Armor isn't legal in PFS, and upgrading named items isn't either. But in a home game? There are lots of options.

Thanks. Home game so yes, options, but options I'd have to run by my GM.

Might be cheaper to stock up on scrolls of Reduce Animal...especially if he doesn't allow custom magic armor. ;P

Glad I'm playing a Clevalier, so divine scrolls are an option.

So, I'm looking to outfit my handsomely rolled half-elf Cleric 3/Cavalier 8 of Shelyn with Celestial Armor (and if possible, add Benevolent to it). I like the idea of light armor/super Elven Chain. I do like to keep my encumbrance down, especially for my limited mount use. But, during my research I also found out about Hosteling armor *which would only work with my mount if I wear HEAVY armor.

Now, I also found out about Celestial Plate Armor...which similar to regular Celestial Chain being treated as light it is treated as Medium.

The issue is, can I put Hosteling on A. a unique armor B. This "medium" heavy armor and still benefit from the ability with my mount?

Celestial armor is normally 22,400 (add benevolent and that's 24,400) Celestial Plate is 25,000 +Hosteling and that's like 32,500. Are the upgrades worth it? (nevermind the possible/obligatory Celestial shield for ~13,000).

Barding is also an issue. the super magic items are adding up, but 82,000 gp starting gold begs to be spent wisely and in large amounts ;)

I was looking at Elven Chain barding (since I'm playing a half-elf from Greengold it works for flavor and function) that's 20,600 for NONMAGICAL barding ;(, but it is treated as light armor for the horse.

I am aware of Mule Cords (1k isn't bad), but I've already got spending problems before some really desired magic items (must haves include: resplendent coat, jingsa of the fortunate soldier, 12k for that combo)

Am I on the right track? What would you do differently? And best barding for the buck at level 11? I am trying to re-enter Rise of the Runelords, so if the Hosteling Celestial Plate works and from your collected experience seems worthwhile, I'll go that route to save me the trouble of hitching my mount outside dungeons.

Sorry, I cross posted a shorter question to Rules, and got the answer that I should talk to my GM, but not allowed in PFS.

Leaves this more of a how worthwhile is hosteling in RoTRL and best buys for cavaliers.

Not in PFS.

If it's a home game, talk to your GM.

It is, old school GM.

Thanks, I will. He tends to be fairly permissive, but I guess this one is a little munchkin.

I think the primary point of contention I want to be sure on was the "Treated as medium armor" vs plate being heavy armor for the hosteling to work. I'd have the same problem with making my own mithral armor.

Any clarification on what ISN'T legal in PFS? Is it the adding qualities to specific armors?

I would second everything said above, especially the Clr 8 full Holy Vindicator and shield and melee focus.

I played one in my RoTRL game. http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/scott-s-rise-of-the-runelords-campa ign/characters/geth

Now, that character got killed when I wasn't around by a bad read of the character sheet (they thought my spell list illegally included anti-magic sphere at that level). Combined with the actually pretty characteristic almost suicidal/self-sacrificing high-defense/step up and soak damage tactic of the character...that got him killed. Good news, his sacrifice got the big bad, the bad, he couldn't get resurrected for a pretty horrible reason I won't say.(it didn't help that the good aligned cleric was taken out of the fight beforehand so no healing).

I'd say from my experience, unless you bump up your bab (15-16 str is pretty decent at your level?) and keep on some good buffs and magic items you're not going to make a good frontliner.

I tried. When I got my AC up high (primarily with vindicator's shield) and laid on the channel smite (which was almost always less preferable to my characters negative energy selective channel burst) and destructive smite...I did ok. once I started getting hit (and this is what killed him btw) he had to back off and rebuff. Seriously, Bull Str and Divine Power and other self-buffs and group buffs are the way to go...if you can pre-buff before battle (up your CL if you can to increase duration) I also made sure to barkskin as much as I could (which was better as a stable AC increase than the vindicator's shield).

Also, if you don't mind heavy armor, that'll up your survivability (mithral is your friend if you want mobility).

Also, my mwk morningstar didn't level well. I unfortunately had a pretty poor cleric since the evil wizard was taking most of the magic items and I wasn't tracking my wealth well. That said, your flaming longsword is better.

Have fun!

It is a decent BAB, decent hd class and if you like and can utilize the abilities well, go for it. And yeah don't dump CHA, mine was kind of low.

I had fun playing my character, but he was doomed from the start (bit of a deathwish and not enough time to buff at times since the high-powered wizard and barb would just blow up on the bads). Low str kept him low on damage. 2-handing is out with the shield (get a good one and upgrade as you can).

I don't think I fought defensively enough for my character btw. High AC is not an easy route, but if you can get it up high and level appropriate and still keep up your DPR, go for it.

On the point of Channel Smite, my GM let me replace the Holy Vindicator freebie with a reasonable Channel Feat, yours should too.

First, can I even add Hosteling to a specific magic armor? (seems to me more of a GM permission issue, but if not, that kills this thread dead).

2nd, presuming the first, can I apply the Hosteling ability to Celestial PLATE armor (treated as medium) for use with my cavalier mount? The magic armor ability requires Heavy armor for an animal larger than the wearer (thus no light/medium armor or shields).

It'd be expensive anyway to do so (32,500), but situationally beneficial for getting through tight spaces in dungeons and teleportation and such.

I'm not against scrapping Celestial Armor period (I was leaning toward the chainmail though for the benefits of light armor not slowing me down), but yeah. Would that even be legal?

So, I'm looking to outfit my handsomely rolled half-elf Cleric 3/Cavalier 8 of Shelyn with Celestial Armor (and if possible, add Benevolent to it). I like the idea of light armor/super Elven Chain. I do like to keep my encumbrance down, especially for my limited mount use. But, during my research I also found out about Hosteling armor *which would only work with my mount if I wear HEAVY armor.

Now, I also found out about Celestial Plate Armor...which similar to regular Celestial Chain being treated as light it is treated as Medium.

The issue is, can I put Hosteling on A. a unique armor B. This "medium" heavy armor and still benefit from the ability with my mount?

Celestial armor is normally 22,400 (add benevolent and that's 24,400) Celestial Plate is 25,000 +Hosteling and that's like 32,500. Are the upgrades worth it? (nevermind the possible/obligatory Celestial shield for ~13,000).

Barding is also an issue. the super magic items are adding up, but 82,000 gp starting gold begs to be spent wisely and in large amounts ;)

I was looking at Elven Chain barding (since I'm playing a half-elf from Greengold it works for flavor and function) that's 20,600 for NONMAGICAL barding ;(, but it is treated as light armor for the horse.

I am aware of Mule Cords (1k isn't bad), but I've already got spending problems before some really desired magic items (must haves include: resplendent coat, jingsa of the fortunate soldier, 12k for that combo)

Am I on the right track? What would you do differently? And best barding for the buck at level 11? I am trying to re-enter Rise of the Runelords, so if the Hosteling Celestial Plate works and from your collected experience seems worthwhile, I'll go that route to save me the trouble of hitching my mount outside dungeons.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the weapons from The Adventurers's Armory are revisited in the Ultimate Combat book - kinda' like the sawtooth sabre's gone through three or four different versions to get to where it is today.

funny enough. It hasn't changed that much in Ultimate Combat. It is exotic (For the 20ft range) but the free action "unclasp and throw" wording is still there. The fact that you can add it at +50gp to any shield but a tower shield is nigh broken as well. If I didn't think it'd be stupid to add it to my likely to buy Celestial Shield (oh hey, bad guy, have my super-light heavy shield that lets you fall softly and would take away my ability to overland fly with my armor...) I'd invest in this. I am leaning toward more of a switch-hitter two-hander anyway, but this is definitely a trick I'm considering. If it holds up for non-exotic proficiency usage, I might still put it on my back.

Sweet. Thank you. It is an expensive weapon quality, but it is worth it so my cavalier won't have to carry a lot of weapons and it adds flavor to his deity's weapon for the foxhole Shelyn convert devotion.

A transforming glaive just feels right. Chances are I'll be forced off my mount more often than not anyway, so I'd rather not invest explicitly in a lance.

Why thank you. That is what I thought. So it could become a falchion or a great sword then?

I want to buy a Transformative Glaive-Guisarme (or just Glaive) for my Shelyn worshiping Cleric 3/Cavalier 8 and I want to make sure whether or not that transforming weapon can also become a Lance (or not). I know it should be able to form most any pole arm (certainly a spear or halberd or ranseur, etc) but why not a lance? mounted it is a one handed weapon- thus the confusing quality. unmounted it would be a two-handed spear instead of a lance (at which point I would probably just let it revert to a glaive-guisarme).

It would be slightly cheaper to just make it a glaive, but the central question is this, what weapons can a transformative polearm make? Lance included? they would all be reach weapons.

Worth considering that Order of the Star stacks with Cleric if you do decide you want to be able to channel. Your saves against things you challenge will be ridiculous, of course.

That certainly is notable, I had over looked it for the overall more favorable party benefits of Order of the Dragon...(though I did scoff at the "friendship" part in that description in regards to my playstyle for my lawful neutral jerk of a cleric ;p) it is only half my cavalier level, but that is certainly better than nothing. It isn't holy vindicator, but I guess I could prestige in HV and really tweak off my comrades.

Thanks for the reminder..

Anyway. I get to start at 11, and figuring the party could use more melee and some heals (The good aligned cleric got turned to stone), I considered and researched a Cleric/Cavalier build and found out that the best options, by my estimate are to keep it to Cleric 3 with the rest Cavalier to not nerf the Cavalier too much as the campaign progresses.

Also I plan on going Half-Elf (or Human) for the ability bonus and multi-classing, resistance perks. Order of the Dragon (for obvious team play benefits) with the Strategist Archetype. I haven't yet picked a deity for the cleric dip (considering Animal Domain), but plan on going Neutral Good for alignment. EDIT: Considering the Tactics subdomain of War since it will be a 3 level dip and if I take boon companion Animal domain would conflict (and again, the companion isn't the focus of my build), also returning to the Protection subdomain of Defense is tempting, though the +2 deflection is moot for most of the Ring of Protection/etc embued allies. Mostly it is the barkskin since all I can hope for is 2nd level cleric/domain spells. I am thinking maybe sticking to Strength for that Domain Bull's Strength may work too. I'll never be an 8th level Cleric, so actually the subdomain boons aren't worth it as much.

What I need help with really is feats and equipment. Right now I found advice that Boon companion is a good one for multiclassing Cavaliers (better for my character than Horse Master since the pre-reqs aren't as bad and I get to keep the Strategist archetype since the Horse Master requires the Expert Trainer feature...which doesn't look bad so I may dump the archetype or change it if advice goes that way. Oh, and I'm looking at Divine Strategist, but not much liking dumping the channel energy for a dip into cleric and limiting myself to 1 domain...though cleric will not be my main focus. Let me know what you think, while I want a smart Cavalier, if I am limited to 20 pt buy or less I won't have a lot of ability points to spread around.

IF people who've played Rise of the Runelords can advise Beast Master/Mounted Builds, I'll go that way, but so far I figure I'll use the companion less in mounted combat than I might like so I'd rather not over invest.

As far as equipment, I'm leaning toward Mithral Full Plate of Speed for simplicity...after that I'll still have 54,000 or so to play with for equipment.

Let the discussion begin.

I’m running a pre-quest as well. I’ve had the time table in mind for a while, which makes the integration a little easier . . .

The PCs are on a quest from the Professor to find a mysterious book (if you know Carrion Hill, you know the book.) I’ve led them to believe that the Professor will accompany them through the AP and provide guidance and firepower if necessary.

The PCs have discovered that the book has been taken by a mysterious group, and a coded message was left behind. They rightly concluded that the Professor can unlock the code.

When they go to meet Petros to give him the news they’ll discover (hopefully to their horror!) that he’s been killed in an “accident.” Coincidence? I think not! I'm sure I can impress the importance of saving Ravengro and keeping them on the AP until I want them to go to Carrion Hill. I’ll keep you posted on how it goes. Or not.

Another option could be to add “Go to Carrion Hill and . . . “ to the Professor’s instructions or journal.

Hope the helps.

I was thinking of adding Carrion Hill to the list of the Professor's Postmortem instructions, especially since one of the books involves the Dark Tapestry. I might play the shock value of his accidental death up more...the 17 days thing is a bit much even for including travel there, still courier speeds can't be that awesome, though with Kendra being a diviner and her father being a wizard, she might have magical means to send a summons.

James Jacobs wrote:

The sidebar might have gone away, just so you know. Not sure if Rob managed to find a way to keep it in the adventure...

He did, so this'll be in #46 and people interested in side tracking to Carrion Hill will have some guidelines on how they might do so!

Thanks, it took me a bit to find it in the pdf I got from my subscription, but I found it. I might not bother fitting it in with a 4 level boost in CR and a preference for using the Sanity Points for Wake of the Watcher anyway (I'll have to calculate sanity point challenges for Carrion Hill, so if someone has already done this it'll increase the likely-hood of me sneaking it in as a Detour.

So, I'm thinking of following the AP now with the addition of Carrion Hill. I'm having a little trouble though so I've included some campaign projections. Any advice would be appreciated

Current Party composition: 2nd Lvl Gunslinger, 2nd lvl Monk (npc since the player left the group in the middle of the dungeon), 2nd lvl Rogue (who may multiclass fighter?) 2nd lvl Necromancer and a 1st level Witch, about halfway to 2nd level by medium xp advancement.

So my campaign is looking something like:

Godsmouth Heresy (gained APL 2, swtich to slow XP advancement until 3rd or later in the Haunting of Harrowstone).

The Haunting of Harrowstone, the group will likely be at APL 2+, minus two current characters: the monk and the oracle (the primary divine caster, the group has no cleric so I may recruit a player for one or allow a tag along.) max HD up some class levels of npcs and keep XP low enough to avoid them popping over 3rd level before the Prison itself.) The group is approximately APL 2+ (currently 5 2nd level characters and 1 1st level, so maybe closer to APL 3). Maintain slow progression until XP normalizes with the medium track of the AP. Likely well into the Prison. If the party stays a 4 person party minus a Cleric, this may stay appropriately powerful or potentially overpowering with the lack of a primary healer

Trial of the Beast, hopefully entering it at 4th level, holding the slow progression as necessary. I'll need to buy this before the end of Harrowstone, obviously. If XP gets out of hand and they do reach 5th level, I'll throw in the Carrion Hill Detour as it is in the module instead likely.

Broken Moon (switch back to medium if not already, possibly maintaining slow for the Carrion Hill Detour so it'll be for 9th level, maybe 8th if the group retains 5 members).

Carrion Hill Detour, adjust hit die of monsters and class levels of npcs, probably incorporating sanity points. Probably switch back to slow progression for the duration of the module. Certainly advancing the spawn as the plot demands, but probably making it appropriately more powerful. The module seems challenging to have a CR 8 +CR 10 finale, maybe it is just that I'm still new to GMing.

Wake of the Watcher, likely switching back to medium track, adjusting hp more than hd and probably keeping class levels of npcs the same- possibly adding 1 or 2 and/or increasing mooks.

I'll have to wait for Ashes of course, but plan on running to the end of the AP.

I'm relatively sure I'll have to do XP advancement more by story than calculation, but I'll try to keep the best of both worlds. (using slow tracking for what I presume will be easier stretches of the AP to start).

James Jacobs wrote:

The sidebar might have gone away, just so you know. Not sure if Rob managed to find a way to keep it in the adventure...

He did, so this'll be in #46 and people interested in side tracking to Carrion Hill will have some guidelines on how they might do so!

Goodness, I can't hardly wait until #46

I'm planning on using Carrion Hill, while I've yet to purchase Trial of the Beast if I choose to run it. I was thinking of using Carrion Hill as a filler- particularly since my players are doing the Godsmouth Heresy module before Harrowstone (which I plan on using the slow XP track during). I figure they'll be likely to be close to 5th level after the Haunting of Harrowstone so Carrion Hill won't be that weird to run- especially since the events that I'm aware of in Trial of the Beast which propel the Whispering Way don't require the PC's presence entirely.
I at least bought Carrion Hill with the intention of running it instead of Trial of the Beast. Fitting it in later is an option, but I'm waiting on that sidebar unless anyone has a better idea.

punkassjoe wrote:

And apparently Harrowstone (Haunting of Harrowstone) is for 1st level characters. So that's a no go.

The book takes you from 1-4, but the actual exploration of Harrowstone is around 2.5~3rd level and you end around 4th. There's more in the adventure than just the Harrowstone location (it's the big location, but not ALL the xp gained in the AP section.

I love to mix and match bits of pre-made adventures to make something bigger overall.

Thanks for the input, I've committed myself to doing the Carrion Crown AP- with Carrion Hill instead of Trial of the Beast.

They're probably a bit more than half-way through the module now and closing on 2nd level by medium progression. But right now I'm thinking of doing slow XP progression with the intent of speeding it up when it becomes appropriate in the Haunting of Harrowstone (Rather than going back to back 1st level adventures with 2nd level characters blowing through the early challenges). I think by that progression they'll be ~2.5 or probably 3rd level by the time they hit the Prison proper. If it goes to plan I'll bring it back to medium for the Prison.
I might let them level in the Ossuary though not sure if the boss encounter is easy enough for 1st levels. But I actually don't see why I should drop the slow progression with the current size of the party (6) since the APL is higher. The size of the party though- splitting the XP so thin is partly why I'm worried about doing slow vs. medium XP. I want most, if not all of them to get out of the Ossuary alive. Sure one of the characters is an NPC now, and another is close from his player's turn out. So with the exception of the late comer witch the party should reach 2,000 pretty soon, and reasonably reach 3,000+ before they get to the hard stuff (Prison) in the Haunting of Harrowstone. IF my figures are off, let me know.

I have a lot of reading to do.

I'm running the Godsmouth Heresy module. We're currently using the slow XP track (not that even with a nice bonus intro encounter. I've worked out some of the plot hooks for drawing the group into Ustalav and The Haunting of Harrowstone, and I'm fishing for advice since I'm planning on using Carrion Hill instead of Trial of the Beast. Of course I'm well aware I'm missing the plot points, so I'll try to catch up on those and at least read some of the Pharasma article by Sean K. Reynolds. I actually ran his Ghostwalk campaign setting in my first and only 3.5 game.

Anyway, any advice on Harrowstone, Carrion Hill or Trial of the Beast is welcome. I might try to fit in both adventures if I get up the nerve to hold the party to the slow track and modify encounters appropriately.

Mostly, I just want to know if anyone else got the itch to use Carrion Hill instead of Trial of the Beast.

I'm well aware I'm pretty much asking for spoilers, so respect there is appreciated- not that I mind too much.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing - if the asylum isn't the last location then there's not a strong dramatic structure to the whole thing. I had Keeper Crove's name be on the strip Keeper Hyve tore out of the Pnakotic Manuscript to seal his mouth.

I ran Carrion Hill, albeit set in Riddleport, for a number of sessions, if you want more details there are full session summaries, see the beginning of Season Two here.

Other things you'll want to correct.

1. The solo ghoul is a terrible idea. I gave him a bunch of ghoul mooks.
2. The solo Keeper Hyve is a terrible idea. I gave him a bunch of traps.
3. Those two dark creepers are unexplained and pointless. I cut them.

There's a lot of raw goodness in Carrion Hill but don't just open it up and run it as written, it needs some TLC.

Thanks, I'll definitely keep these points in mind for when I run it. Especially since there's a good chance that my party will be above the written APL. (considering slow progression through the Godsmouth Heresy, maybe to pick things up after The Haunting of Harrowstone gets started, then dip into Carrion Hill instead of Trial of the Beast).

So these suggestions are helpful to me, and make sense, though I've yet to fully read the module. I'm still in 1st level party mode, so if the group lasts as long as I hope, I'll get to tie Carrion Hill into the larger Carrion Crown tapestry.
I'd be curious about what sort of traps you gave the Keeper Hyve encounter.

I'm running a game currently with a 6 character 1st-lvl party. This was more due to group restructuring and size than planning. We planned two games for 8 people total switching Game Masters, each group had one opt out, mine just happened to also have one drop out later while in the Godsmouth Ossuary (a dungeon) with another player character getting introduced halfway through the dungeon (starting with 5 ending with 6 characters). SO I'm thinking APL 1, maybe +1 right now.

I will probably dump the character who dropped out by the end of the module, but may not since it is a monk and the party composition is Wizard, Rogue, Gunslinger, Oracle (who's missing a couple sessions, the empty shirt monk and the Witch who just joined. She had a plot hook already- but getting her in the dungeon was a fun write in. Survivability with 3 casters to 2 effectively melee combatants will probably work long run, but right now the 3 to 3 seems to help with survivability (At least with the 1st level case of Lethal). Maybe too much, not that there wasn't almost a TPK when the Gunslinger almost bit the proverbial dust. Any comments or updates on the Gunslinger front is welcome too. I'm sure someone in the group, possibly me, is getting Ultimate Combat when it comes out.

Anyway,
I've bought into the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, (they wanted Horror and I wanted to give it to them). Purchasing The Haunting of Harrowstone and subscribing to the adventure path starting with Broken Moon. Due partly to wanting to run Carrion Hill more and partly to liking the idea of running Trial of the Beast less after reading some messageboard comments on flavor and gameplay (Actual Lawyers, A Monster Class even getting a Trial- though he is intelligent and has Class levels. Since actually finding the adventure at my local shop I'm more endeared to it, but still not as much as I like Carrion Hill.

So.
I'm still tallying up XP and trying to decide if I should do a slow track- which isn't that bad with the fact that one of the group did an intro...

Sorry, with an intentionally inserted NPC the party only got ~450 xp, not ~500, which isn't much difference.

Morgen wrote:

Perhaps if you went into detail about what you wanted the character to do and be like?

Ok, sorta looking at the Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Western of a man great with a gun that likes to throw dynamite around.

Thomas

Sort of like James Coburn's character John Mallory in "Duck, You Sucker" or "A Fistful of Dynamite."

Flavor-wise, from what I can tell- you're more Gunslinger than Alchemist (which is more Alchemist than Demolitions expert).

Now, mechanically speaking...
Int is your ability score after Dex take a decent Wisdom for Grit (since you aren't starting with Extra Grit, you may want to take it later).

I'd probably choose which one you'd want more of or go an even split. If flavor wise you want more gunslinger, you should go more gunslinger with a dip or two in Alchemist. Depending on level of course. I'd probably go Alchemist 1/Gunslinger 2 for a Clint Eastwood if I were you, if I were me and doing James Coburn I'd do it the opposite (Alchemist2/Gunslinger1) for openers. Human of course. In either case. I'd probably start the 2nd level of Alchemist with "Delayed bomb" so you can have a longer "fuse," then follow with "Explosive Bomb" or "Concussive Bomb" if going to Alchemist 4.
I'd go gunslinger at least 4- probably 5- levels down the line- probably ending up 4/4 at some point before going 5/4 and furthering that gap as necessary. From the sound of your inclinations I'd say that you probably want to make Alchemist your low class...maybe end up something like 6/4 Gunslinger/Alchemist. If you get that far. For survivability you'd want to have more gunslinger anyway, not that the skill points of the Alchemist aren't tasty.
For Gunslinger, deeds of choice- for Clint Eastwood, would be Deadeye and Gunslinger Initiative. Feat choice after your first two is up in the air, but if you don't get access to Advanced Fire Arms burn up Extra Grit for Quick Clear and/or take Rapid Reload to increase your action economy.

As far as Skills. This build would be very Craft heavy, and yes Craft Alchemy would be a useful overlap. Knowledge Arcana and Engineering would be good choices, good perception and stealth would help. Survival is a nice overlap. Handle Animal and Ride if you've got both the skill points and the horse. Otherwise avoid it.

I do think that you'd probably be better off sticking with Gunslinger and just stocking up on Alchemist's Fire, not that it wouldn't work to some advantages to multiclass, it's just more James Coburn's character to go Alchemist than Clint Eastwood's.

Apart from Craft Alchemy and theoretically making explosive or extract infused rounds, there isn't much use in multiclassing much into Alchemist if your goal is a Gunslinger who also happens to sling dynamite on occassion, often would be different, and you'd have to improve the bomb as you went maybe going 5/5 just to get 3d6 Bomb.

I'm running a game currently with a 6 character 1st-lvl party. This was more due to group restructuring and size than planning. We planned two games for 8 people total switching Game Masters, each group had one opt out, mine just happened to also have one drop out later while in the Godsmouth Ossuary (a dungeon) with another player character getting introduced halfway through the dungeon (starting with 5 ending with 6 characters). SO I'm thinking APL 1, maybe +1 right now.
I will probably dump the character who dropped out by the end of the module, but may not since it is a monk and the party composition is Wizard, Rogue, Gunslinger, Oracle (who's missing a couple sessions, the empty shirt monk and the Witch who just joined. She had a plot hook already- but getting her in the dungeon was a fun write in. Survivability with 3 casters to 2 effectively melee combatants will probably work long run, but right now the 3 to 3 seems to help with survivability (At least with the 1st level case of Lethal). Maybe too much, not that there wasn't almost a TPK when the Gunslinger almost bit the proverbial dust. Any comments or updates on the Gunslinger front is welcome too. I'm sure someone in the group, possibly me, is getting Ultimate Combat when it comes out.

Anyway,
I've bought into the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, (they wanted Horror and I wanted to give it to them). Purchasing The Haunting of Harrowstone and subscribing to the adventure path starting with Broken Moon. Due partly to wanting to run Carrion Hill more and partly to liking the idea of running Trial of the Beast less after reading some messageboard comments on flavor and gameplay (Actual Lawyers, A Monster Class even getting a Trial- though he is intelligent and has Class levels. Since actually finding the adventure at my local shop I'm more endeared to it, but still not as much as I like Carrion Hill.

So.
I'm still tallying up XP and trying to decide if I should do a slow track- which isn't that bad with the fact that one of the group did an intro for the Kaer Maga flavor giving everybody ~500 xp.
So the options of just waiting until everyone leaves the dungeon or just leveling by plot comes to mind. But I'm still going to track XP properly (and split it amongst all characters, including NPCs- especially former PCs or no-shows). So far people seem committed to running the Adventure Path as a continuation with the same characters.

I'm obviously going with the flow as far as planning this, but I'd appreciate some advice on the XP and APL/CR issues from people who've run the following Adventures/Modules:

Godsmouth Ossuary, 1st lvl, the party, I know, comes out at 2nd level, but when does that normally hit? Right at the end? How much would allowing the ~500 pre-module bump affect the soon to be wonk XP track?

The Haunting of Harrowstone 1st lvl, someone has already addressed the issue a little since the PRE-Prison stuff puts the characters around 2nd level, putting the jumping into the crawl option on the table. Though I would rather build flavor and just track XP slower (possibly keeping the medium speed for the Godsmouth Module).

Carrion Hill, 5th lvl, I've gotten into this one a little and SPOILER, the cult in it might work it's way into Lorrimoor's Diary for me. Of course, there's always a cult, but I may or may not integrate them with the one in Carrion Crown.

And of course hopefully they'll end up at ~7th level for Broken Moon- which just came out, so if anyone's already running it, keep me posted? I have it and will be reading over it by the time I'm done with The Haunting of Harrowstone.

I wouldn't want any spoilers here for Trial of the Beast apart from the more glaring issues of omitting it from the Adventure Path. If things get kind of messed up I might end up running Trial of the Beast anyway. I might have to buy it anyway just to get plot points that I can integrate without running it- or to run later (which may happen).

I might even go as far as to emulate Hellboy's BPRD agency tendency to sends out specialists and have varying levels of continuity. That is I might jump them around at 5th to do both for the sake of continuing the Adventure Path more as written. IN anycase, I'm looking forward to running a game set in Ustalav as it is looking like tons of fun. I'm actually really excited about the rest of the Adventure Path (especially for Wake of the Watcher since Carrion Hill is also Lovecraftian). Though, on the topic of non-chronological gaming, I'm waiting for September when the Feast of Ravenmoor module comes out, almost wishing it was already out. I'd be at odds to work it in though.

I'll probably post other threads specifically about the Gunslinger's progress (he's the main damage dealer, duh, the Wizard is a Necromancer and we haven't gotten to the point where they can control Undead), ths campaign and another solicitation on incorporating Sanity points or a similar system by the time I get to the Lovecraft stuff. I think I read that there's an article in one part of the Carrion Crown AP.

Anyway, yeah. Slow XP, by Plot?
I wouldn't want to reboot them at 1st level, that's no fun. 5th, maybe...

Isawaphoenix wrote:

Good Morning, long time listener, first time caller.

I have a question about Holy Vindicator. (*among others but I figure I will throw out an easy one first and then send out the hard ones.

The language used for describing the Vindicator's shield ability is VERY imprecise.
1 Does using the ability cost a use of channel energy for the day?
2 Do I retain my sacred bonus to AC even if I am not wielding the shield?

I think I know the answer but my rules lawyer buddy is raking us over the coals with the specific (or non-specific) language used to describe the effects.

Thanks!!

1. I would say yes, though poorly worded. It does say you channel energy, so one would assume it uses a channel energy per day

2. It says that you don't have to be holding it to have the bonus, but you have to wear it. So I guess technically it just has to be on your person to get the bonus.

You don't have to be using it for the bonus to be in effect, but I'm fairly sure you have to use it to get the bonus. This at least makes sense.

Honestly, I only kind of wish I could go back and at least roll up an Oracle and have the option of playing that instead of a cleric. And that's only a bit. The options are somewhat in line with a character I was recreating from a home brew game, particularly the haunted descriptor, but I don't need to be an Oracle to be a tortured character, and I honestly think that the cleric, with its Domain Powers (which can be limited by which deity you go with) and channeling is just more attractive. I'm running a game with an Oracle and playing in a game as a Cleric. The oracle does okay, but is still mostly stuck healing since the party has no cleric. Literally they napped like 4 times last session...SNAIL'S PACE. Now,I don't really use the spells much as a negative energy channeling combat cleric...luckily we do have a positive energy cleric in the party too. Now, we have completely different focuses, mine is Retribution (ala a tortured St. Cuthbert priest, but with Abadar worship and Nethys granting powers, Destruction, Protection- Defense Subdomain) while his is Redemption- at least Sarenae is about Redemption. We couldn't be more thematically different, but because we're both clerics there's a bond. That and he had to realize the hard way that a heal-bot is not always combat ready. My character could take it, but I was also playing more conservatively. In character it makes sense as my guy is supposed to be a borderline anti-hero ex-militia/navy sailor, and his is a goody-two shoes priest. Still, the games will be interesting. So far the Oracle's powers are comparable, but if anything that channel energy is really lacking, especially in keeping spells. And yeah, while selective channeling IS a feat sink- it makes thematic/mechanical sense since the effect is a BURST of energy...so selectively omitting targets is tactically valuable, but not automatically relevant. You could have a healing (or even inflicting) cleric without it, he'd just have to maneuver carefully or wait until the end of combat (or when undead are around) to use it. An undead fight is an example of selective channeling not being necessary.

While I'm glad I'm running a game with an Oracle in it, I'd say that the party would likely be better balanced and move along better at 1st level with a cleric.

Why I would play a cleric or inquisitor for that matter of a concept?

The polytheism/ duality issue has already been brought up.

Another reason: Getting in on the ground floor of deity. Look to Small Gods by Pratchett, for where I am going. A gods follower base start somewhere it may even start before the deity has a defined name or identity.

Perhaps St. Cuthbert started out as a cleric of a concept till he became the sainted then deified embodiment of said concept

That's sort of how I see it too. Even small gods get clerics sometimes. St. Cuthbert was once a human, so the cleric of a concept to god thing makes sense. If I didn't like Cuthbert, I wouldn't have based 2.5 characters on his faith. That said, the Pathfinder version is more an amalgam- a poly-theist somewhat lost in his faith, but still receiving powers as he's devoted to Retribution (and thus Destruction and Protection). I think I forgot to mention he's a neutral cleric that channels negative energy. Incidentally, there are two clerics in our party- the second is a Saranae cleric (all about Redemption) who does heal. I think they make a nice foil and get along rather well due to mutual respect. Though I can forsee a falling out when Geth's alignment leads to choices that fall farther away from Saranae's teachings.

While Abadar comes closest to Cuthbert, my guy pays lip service to him to gain approval in Korvosa and follows Nethys as much as he does because it matches his tortured soul ideal better with the two domains Nethys Grants. Irori is in there for flavor as well as my guy was a Sailor. (note I also picked a sub-domain of Defense, so mechanically that changes the game a little).
I don't see my cleric, who carries 3 and a half holy symbols (he carries a cudgel) as having that much less faith or validity than a single deity cleric who doesn't focus on a concept more than a deity specific set up. An unclear idea of St. Cuthbert is his deity. No, he isn't as clear course as a Cleric of St. Cuthbert, but he doesn't have to be. I always saw Cuthbert as a conflicted deity anyway. Protect the innocent and hard working, punish the guilty and chaotically destructive and espouse the faith...judging all the way, leaving a path of destruction in the wake.

Still, I'd defend my True Neutral Death cleric too, while I've played aligned clerics, the Neutral ones- the ones that conform to their faith in a concept more than society's expectations are the more interesting ones. Negative energy is non-generic.

Now I know that in the core rule book, a cleric can worship a concept such as Valor, instead of a god like Iomadae, or Perfection, instead of Iorori, or Darkness, instead of Zon Kuthon.

Why would a player prefer to have his cleric worship a concept?

Is it just to get divine spells without having to worry about “pesky religion”? is it just for meta-gaming reasons so a player can pick two domains for their powers?

I’m curious thanks.

I did have a character based on a concept. Devoted to the concept of True Neutral Death Deity...he was short-lived, though he's tended to live longer as an NPC, so far he's not lasted long though.

While there is something to question about domain cherry picking versus what is given, which might be a risk in pathfinder, I'd still argue for the option of bringing in one's loosely defined concept of a deity...or a precise one, or just a valid concept (no deity) that isn't covered explicitly in the RAW pantheon- or necessarily the DM's, though that helps.

Example of weird:
I found myself recently reinterpreting a relatively devout character. I based it on a character I played in a home brew game, using some tenets of St. Cuthbert, the 3.5 deity- particularly the points of faith elucidated by Sean K Reynolds' Core Beliefs Dragon article, I saw this character as a twist on the Core Belief's article and a doppelganger of sorts to a previous character devoted to St. Cuthbert (and largely based on the article).

Now, the character is more aptly defined by nearly worshiping an actual song (Retribution Gospel Choir's - Destroyer)...
Geth the Protector (of Korvosa) is devoted to the concept of Retribution with some of Cuthbert's symbols- though a mixed bag of Lawful to Neutral deities...Abadar primarily, but including Nethys since they grant the domains he used in 3.5, mostly Nethys, Destruction and Protection. Those happen to be snappy powers, yes, but they fit the character even after conversion. And while Nethys is cool, just not the character.

Though, I will add one point I ignored with this concept based character...favored weapon= Mace. Sure, St. Cuthbert of the cudgel is all about the mace (or club), but few deities in Golarion use maces. Which, sure, were notably the generic Cleric Weapon, but can I help it if I like the Heavy Mace Cleric?

Point is, the generic or non-generic cleric benefit from a concept approach as much as a core deity based approach. In as much as it reflects the quality of the roleplay and doesn't break the game (Domains are not built to be game breaking in combination, but I could imagine the designers matched domains to complement each other more than non-deity specific cherry-picking would enforce.

punkassjoe wrote:

Kaisoku wrote:

Also, in round one you had the option of two pistols OR a musket with 50 shots of ammo. Ammo wasn't necessarily guaranteed even in round 1.

The fact that you can make ammo at 10% the normal cost though (automatic gunsmith feat) kind of alleviates this mostly.

I have a player interested in playing the Gunslinger class, I'm basing this off of Round 2, but I think he's still pulling elements from Round 1 *(two pistols) Should I allocate him starting ammo or incorporate that into his bought equipment? He's a long way from home in the Mana Wastes, so he's probably not going to be able to buy anything other than basic materials fit to make ammunition out of.

First, what would you think of letting the player start with two pistols (perhaps with one using the Heirloom Weapon trait) having to buy at least one of them and how much ammo?

I suppose we can roleplay or settle this in the town. He's going to start the game in Kaer Maga, so if he can buy materials anywhere outside of Alkenstar, it'd be there where' there's at least a curious rogue blacksmith.

As it is still in playtest, I added the stipulation that I'll determine what goes until Ultimate Combat comes out. Are there any KNOWN changes from Round 2 to print that I should know about? And how much of Round 1 should I acknowledge?

Read gun smithing, a gunslinger can make ammo and guns on his own and for half price.

So if he took the Rich Parents trait he could theoretically use that to make another pistol (and have two)

I might prefer that (For his character) to the "Heirloom Weapon" trait.

With the Gunsmithing feat- he can make his own guns, correct? He's established himself as a nobleman's son who is an apprentice gunsmith, we just happen to be coming into an area where guns aren't really around, Kaer Maga (but could be available, particularly components).

Any advice on GMing components (paper, chemicals for powder, cartridge materials, metal for smithing, etc.). Or updating tools or advancing firearms on one's own? I'm thinking of allowing him to modify, create or invent other early firearms, certainly within the realms of what he'd be familiar with from Alkenstar. Particularly curious about how to chart the cost of him upgrading his firearm to the "masterwork" status mentioned in the text from the Battered state.

On the point of upgrading, creating and inventing new firearms, I was thinking of specifically tying any of those sorts of advancements (personal experimentation and refinement by stages of success) to the Gun Training class feature, as the 4th level specifically mentions guns, and guns that aren't mentioned as starting options (by full name at least); axe-musket and I believe pepperbox included if not dragon pistol or double pistol.

Also, in round one you had the option of two pistols OR a musket with 50 shots of ammo. Ammo wasn't necessarily guaranteed even in round 1.

The fact that you can make ammo at 10% the normal cost though (automatic gunsmith feat) kind of alleviates this mostly.

I have a player interested in playing the Gunslinger class, I'm basing this off of Round 2, but I think he's still pulling elements from Round 1 *(two pistols) Should I allocate him starting ammo or incorporate that into his bought equipment? He's a long way from home in the Mana Wastes, so he's probably not going to be able to buy anything other than basic materials fit to make ammunition out of.

First, what would you think of letting the player start with two pistols (perhaps with one using the Heirloom Weapon trait) having to buy at least one of them and how much ammo?

I suppose we can roleplay or settle this in the town. He's going to start the game in Kaer Maga, so if he can buy materials anywhere outside of Alkenstar, it'd be there where' there's at least a curious rogue blacksmith.

As it is still in playtest, I added the stipulation that I'll determine what goes until Ultimate Combat comes out. Are there any KNOWN changes from Round 2 to print that I should know about? And how much of Round 1 should I acknowledge?

Awesome concept. I'm not sure how the Dhampir Paladin will survive, though, given that he needs negative energy to be healed.

I guess we need to wait until at least the player's guide to know how well this concept would work. Or maybe one of the devs can give you an answer. :p

Alternatively their possible cleric- good aligned I'd presume, might prepare inflict spells much like my negative energy cleric prepares cure spells, this at least doesn't have the same problem a negative energy bursting cleric would have being tempted to throw out a painful undead healing burst...since it'd be focused to a touch attack/spell.

And yeah, I have to admit this is an awesome concept and rather hope my players lean toward that style of play when I get the ball rolling for Carrion Crown.

I've been delayed, but I finally managed to get a copy of Carrion Hill. An avid Lovecraft scholar and CoC player, I was very pleased with the atmosphere and nature of the adventure, as well as the buried chamber that echoed of many Lovecraftian locales. (Sermon Bishop's farm, anyone?)

Has anyone had a chance to run it yet? I like the open-ended way the PCs can encounter the Shogo - I mean - Chaos Beast, but the adventure seems best if they run into it at the Asylum. Is this the case? Is there a subtle way to guide your PCs there last? Any thoughts on creating the proper atmosphere?

I'm thinking of running Carrion Hill to replace Trial of the Beast in Carrion Crown (and running Harrowstone after Godsmouth Heresy), so I wouldn't know yet since I haven't read it (3 adventures down the line at this point), BUT I do have a possible suggestion.

KEY it, magically key it. Only a certain object or key can get you into the last room and the only way to find the key is to check every room...thereby the second to last room gains you access despite the powerful otherworldly magicks (or perhaps in this case, chaotic elements?). Not sure if there is an event that would work for this that is already in there, but I'm sure a creative DM (no doubt like yourself as you're a fan of Lovecraft) can work that out too.

To be frank, I wanted my horror campaign to have that feel, but haven't really read much Lovecraft...yet. I am, otherwise, familiar with his work and know a few people who dig the C-man and CoC as well.

punkassjoe wrote:

And apparently Harrowstone (Haunting of Harrowstone) is for 1st level characters. So that's a no go.

The book takes you from 1-4, but the actual exploration of Harrowstone is around 2.5~3rd level and you end around 4th. There's more in the adventure than just the Harrowstone location (it's the big location, but not ALL the xp gained in the AP section.

I love to mix and match bits of pre-made adventures to make something bigger overall.

Hmm. That's not a bad idea, afterall there is a Prison level below the Godsmouth Ossuary that the players might get themselves into, so having a ready made haunted prison, throw in some undead (mohrgs and zombies) and I've got a ready made continuation. I just don't want to step on the toes of the other DM is all, but Harrowstone isn't part of RotRLs. I'm hoping there's some of the Prison in City of Strangers though. Pplus I'm sure there is MORE THAN ENOUGH material in there for me to sandbox levels 3-5 if need be. Getting them to Carrion Hill could be a non-sequitur or a time jump or a casual and gradual shift in geography.

I've read through the Heresy a couple of times (haven't run it yet though). I don't know how much the extra player is going to make that much of a change. I'd say either add a mook or two to a few of the fights to see how they go. Some of those fights if there was much of anything added to it could be dangerous even for 6 1st level chars.

In regards to 3rd level horror, I'd say either Skinsaw Murders down graded a little bit. Might not even need to do that, since it was written for 3.5 at 4th level, and these would be PFRPG chars. I would change the bat to PF rules...you'll see if you read it. Either that, or run Harrowstone from the Carrion Crown first AP as a stand alone haunted dungeon w/out some of the backstory. You're supposed to be around 3rd level for most of that IIRC. Both are haunted locations with undead/ghosts/haunted type stuff.

Oh, drat. I can't run The Skinsaw Murders, apparently that's part of the Rise of the Runelords and the other DM for our group(s) is running that already.

And apparently Harrowstone (Haunting of Harrowstone) is for 1st level characters. So that's a no go.

I've read through the Heresy a couple of times (haven't run it yet though). I don't know how much the extra player is going to make that much of a change. I'd say either add a mook or two to a few of the fights to see how they go. Some of those fights if there was much of anything added to it could be dangerous even for 6 1st level chars.

In regards to 3rd level horror, I'd say either Skinsaw Murders down graded a little bit. Might not even need to do that, since it was written for 3.5 at 4th level, and these would be PFRPG chars. I would change the bat to PF rules...you'll see if you read it. Either that, or run Harrowstone from the Carrion Crown first AP as a stand alone haunted dungeon w/out some of the backstory. You're supposed to be around 3rd level for most of that IIRC. Both are haunted locations with undead/ghosts/haunted type stuff.

The Carrion Crown option isn't a bad one since I'll be running the Carrion Hill module more than likely...but I'll look into the Skinsaw Murders too.

Thanks!
Yeah, I'm not gonna double the CR 3 construct. I'm thinking about the 1/2 CRs and a couple of CR 1 creatures that are solo but there could be more of. I'm thinking of 1d4 creatures or one creature every 1d4 or 1d6 rounds in the case of the Crawling hand (maximum of 7 as represented in the art, that'd be horror-ific). Similar idea for the Rune Guardian (adding another one of another type- preferably an under represented Sin) Staggering monsters is how I weakened my first campaign- that and having powerful PCs, this time I plan on taking the best of both and running the module as straight as I can, throwing in an extra mook (as you put it) where I can. Again, I'll know how many players I'll have probably this Sunday.

Would anyone like to guess at the level progression, am I right in thinking this module will spit out the players at 3rd level? (especially if I add any monsters or CR)

I plan on doing the calculations, I just wanted to get a feel for it if anyone has run it.

Hi all,
I'm going to run the Godsmouth Heresy and I had a couple questions and a general solicitation for advice on the module.

I'm looking at likely having 5-6 players for a 4 player module. I may be able to dodge the 6th, but the 5th would at least be an occasional (npc the rest of the time perhaps. maybe not even coming in until after the module).

What'd be your best advice on scaling for 5 players? I'm thinking of adding monsters, in most cases doubling (obviously not the CR 3's and likely not any CR 2's) and in probably all cases maxing out the creature's hitdie. Alternatively increasing the numbers of small enemies, but staggering their appearance accordingly. If this is overpowering, let me know, but I do want to make things dangerous enough to be challenging. So far, the group has no main melee (a monk and a rogue) so the brunt might fall on them or the strategy of getting out of encounters carefully and quickly and avoiding combat. There will be an Oracle of the Heavens for at least most of the module, so healing should be okay.

Party composition, as of right now, should be Monk, Rogue, Necromancer and Oracle of the Heavens, but I'm expecting a 5th, likely an Alchemist, or maybe a Witch down the line. They're restricted to 15 point buy and 2 traits (though not one of them being a regional).

This is my first module and second (or 2.5) time GMing, so I'd appreciate any advice on the module. I'm thinking about following it up with a 3rd level if they only advance that far, or skipping ahead to Carrion Hill with the appropriate fill-ins to get them to level 5. I want to run Feast of Ravenmoor, but looks like that won't be out until SEPTEMBER...so either not likely run that as my 3rd level module (ha!) or saving it for later, maybe do a time skip thing and come back to it ala' BPRD/Mike Mignola style- some continuity, but a lot of stand alone adventures. In any case, the game should have a bit of a horror flavor, partly why I'm doing Carrion Hill.

I'd like to run a 3rd level adventure to get them up to 5th that has horror/monster flair, but I may have to make it up myself.

Any suggestions? A 3.5 module is an option since it isn't that hard to
modify for Pathfinder (probably harder than I think though).

If you're soloing, then you probably want to improve the wizard's survivability. Since you're starting at 12th level, wizard (Battle Domain, trade Scribe Scroll and bonus item creation/metamagic feats for combat feats) 6/fighter 1/spellsword 1/eldritch knight 4 is an option; you miss the worst levels of multi-classing, are sitting at +9 BAB, can ignore up to 10% arcane spell failure from armor (mithral chain shirt or feycraft mithral breastplate), and only lose two levels of spell progression (no 6th level spells). This will make the wizard more resilient; taking a level in ranger (you'll have to use feats to gain Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency) instead of fighter allows you to use wands of cure light wounds without UMD checks, greatly improving your solo staying power (since you can heal up after fights).

Because a domain wizard doesn't have opposition schools, you can take whatever spell choices suit the rest of your needs. Take Quicken Spell as one of your feats and fill your 5th level bonus slot with a Quickened true strike (useful for both weapon attacks and missile/ray spells) instead of interposing hand.

If you want a domain wizard more focused on spells, then a wizard (Storm Domain) 6/elemental savant (Air) 6 with the Born of the Three Thunders (from Complete Arcane) feat is also a possibility. Electricity resistance/immunity is somewhat less common than cold and fire, while sonic resistance is rare; this combination gives a decent chance for the wizard to use damaging spells more often.

Thank you. Naw, I'm going more for caster levels than straight survivability at least via gish. I don't think I can afford the build suggested in GP with 88,000 alone. I have to go either caster or well, something else...It'll be tough, but all the opponents are vulnerable to fire at least. I will consider the wand idea. I'll take a second look at the storm domain as you've suggested.

As it is, taking Flaws for extra feats (which include improved toughness and maybe improved initiative).

I actually found my answer here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8888.940

And will probably be going Transmutation- though I'm taking a second look at Conjuration as per the poster's suggestion to the question posted there.

Tactics I'm considering are things like Magic Jar or Friend to Foe to deal with at least one or two of the Giants (3 all together), perhaps saving a couple of will spells for the weaker winter wolves. Hitting them hard and fast while invisible would be advisable in any case. Transmutation might come in handy there since haste will give me that extra action I need to get the upper hand in combat, invisible surprise or no. I think even if I plan this well I don't stand too much of a chance. Which is okay. Not great but okay.

The dragon will be the hardest to take with its saves...but some ranged touch spells mixed with Disintegrates might be the best there. Not sure in honesty as I'm ill-prepared as it is. I do have a metamagic rod of Quicken and some sudden maximize & empower usages. Might stick with the rod of extend as well.

I see many posts from people that are actually playing 3.5/PF and many posts from those who are not. I also see many posts from those who obviously played D&D (1E/2E/3E) in the past but no longer play.

So my question is: Are you actively playing 3.5/PF on a regular basis?

For purposes of this survey actively playing means you meet ALL of the following criteria:
- Sessions at least once a month
- Sessions in person (no play-by-post or online only)
- Sessions with a group of at least 2 players and a DM (no solo or one-on-one groups)

Two sessions a week. One is Pathfinder (converted Age of Worms) on Wednesdays- which we usually meet, but missed a couple due to quorum issues. I'm playing a Pathfinder reincarnation of my first 3.0 character, Mud a half-orc barbarian. And for the most part, loving it. A bit railroaded last session, the latest kind of made up for it, but we're low on equipment (Read: we were in jail and now we're busted out and scavenging off the baddies we kill) which 'helps balance the Pathfinder advantages' in a 3.5 module- my DM claims. 3-5 people now. (We just added a Psion and a Sorceress but may have long term lost our Rogue).

The second is Thursdays 3.5 right now...though not a normal game per say where we are solo running against Dragons and minions at 12th level. Supposedly we'll band together to fight a bigger meaner dragon.
As a party of Dragon Slayers- so far everyone has succeeded, but me...but it should be interesting when we do get together as a party- we still meet as a group though. What's the point of ending a dragon's reign of terror without an audience?
I'm actually up next (Almost ready!) with my Tiefling (bought off LA) Domain wizard. If I don't die (Again?) I'll look forward to the 5 person party. I've never actually played a Wizard so I think my chances of survival are fairly minimal. Mostly it is the 3 frost giants I know will be accompanying the young adult White Dragon, if it were one or just two I'd worry less about my spells per day and HP, add two winter wolves and this solo adventure seems a little rough. Nonetheless it is doable.

With this group most recently, like a month ago, we finished playing a module (something like "MirrorVerse")- some 3rd party module...as 8th level 3.5 characters. Before that was home brew based on 3.5, but not really having any direct components.
We'll also be doing a 3.5 reverse dungeon as Goblins?
Steady now as a 6 person group (including the DM, which switched off for the other 3.5 game)