In reply to the tip about elemental manipulation, "If you’re not willing to shell your own position, you’re not willing to win."
Well, it should be noted that character isn't a straight wizard, so it's kind of unfair to use it as an example of wizards being superior (if this was a rogue thread and someone made a rogue utilizing dips that'd be called out as well).
In a straight "wizard vs sorcerer" at blasting, I think the sorcerer would win out. When it comes to building the optimal blaster, it takes more wizard levels than sorcerer levels.
Sorcerer wins out only as far as not having to deal with resistances/immunity. The admixture wizard just is able to keep the damage up regardless of the resistance. Also the elf is a superb choice for wizard, but not for sorcerer. Elven ability to penetrate SR is very important, if you don't get past it you don't get your spell.
Sure the sorcerer can just elemental spell something, but that costs a level and you have to take the feat multiple times to cover all of the bases. The wizard just has to choose the right school at character creation and know when to use the ability. Which is easier since they have knowledge much easier than sorcerers (that is if you are playing sorcerers without meta knowledge of monster abilities).
notabot wrote: Sorcerer wins out only as far as not having to deal with resistances/immunity. The admixture wizard just is able to keep the damage up regardless of the resistance. Also the elf is a superb choice for wizard, but not for sorcerer. Elven ability to penetrate SR is very important, if you don't get past it you don't get your spell.
Sure the sorcerer can just elemental spell something, but that costs a level and you have to take the feat multiple times to cover all of the bases. The wizard just has to choose the right school at character creation and know when to use the ability. Which is easier since they have knowledge much easier than sorcerers (that is if you are playing sorcerers without meta knowledge of monster abilities).
Hence my earlier point about Sorcerer builds.
Also the other minor factor in this is the skill use magic device. Opens the sorcerer up to such useful things as healing, etc.
I thought "the blaster build" involved one level of Crossblooded Orc/Draconic sorcerer followed by all the rest of your levels being in Admixture wizard? (Not that I like the build, though...)
Atarlost wrote: There's a new table in UM. I think the main difference is that single target spells get their bumps at even levels, so a 4th level multitarget spell would cap at 10 dice, but a 4th level single target spell would cap at 15 dice. That actually sounds identical. The 3E table was staggered for single target and area spells; the single target ones got a dice cap boost one level earlier in general. So for example (single target cap / area cap), at 2nd level it is 10 / 5, at 3rd level it is 10 / 10, at 4th level it is 15 / 10, at 5th level it is 15 / 15, etc... Basically, the single target caps are one spell level ahead of the area caps.
That's for arcane spells, though. Divine spells had a guideline with generally lower caps / more delay until cap increases, though Druid being partly a blaster caster tended to skirt that by getting the blast spells a level earlier than clerics did (like Flame Strike).
notabot wrote: Sorcerer wins out only as far as not having to deal with resistances/immunity. The admixture wizard just is able to keep the damage up regardless of the resistance. Also the elf is a superb choice for wizard, but not for sorcerer. Elven ability to penetrate SR is very important, if you don't get past it you don't get your spell. Sorcerers don't care about being elves. You go human for the extra spells known to offset the reduction from cross blooded. If you are concerned about SR then you use your bonus feat for Spell Penetration so you are still even with the Elf. Of course outside of PFS you are also probably taking Racial Heritage: Half Elf for Paragon Surge and complete flexibility.
Quote: Sure the sorcerer can just elemental spell something, but that costs a level and you have to take the feat multiple times to cover all of the bases. The wizard just has to choose the right school at character creation and know when to use the ability. Which is easier since they have knowledge much easier than sorcerers (that is if you are playing sorcerers without meta knowledge of monster abilities). You don't need Elemental Spell more than once. You can focus on fire attacks and grab Elemental Spell (Cold). I don't believe there is anything which is immune to Fire and Cold and enemies who are immune to Fire are also often vulnerable to Cold. It is also possible for the Sorcerer to take a couple of extra spells to cover other resistances. Dragon's Breath on its own gives you a level 4 spell slot which can cover all of the main elemental damage types.
I still cant believe paizo made Energy Substitution a +1 and STILL make you choose which elemental type to take it for. It was a bad feat in 3E as it was...
andreww wrote: notabot wrote: Sorcerer wins out only as far as not having to deal with resistances/immunity. The admixture wizard just is able to keep the damage up regardless of the resistance. Also the elf is a superb choice for wizard, but not for sorcerer. Elven ability to penetrate SR is very important, if you don't get past it you don't get your spell. Sorcerers don't care about being elves. You go human for the extra spells known to offset the reduction from cross blooded. If you are concerned about SR then you use your bonus feat for Spell Penetration so you are still even with the Elf. Of course outside of PFS you are also probably taking Racial Heritage: Half Elf for Paragon Surge and complete flexibility.
Sure that sorcerer can just be human and use that bonus feat for spell pen... but an elf is going to eventually want spell pen too, and then greater spell pen as well making them the king of getting past SR. IF the human sorcerer uses 2 feats to get greater spell pen they still don't have the +6 that elves do. You aren't really gaining anything that humans don't normally get (yippee, you have nice feat to spend elsewhere) and you still don't catch up to the elf.
As for the fire and cold, I've seen monsters that are vuln to one and immune to other actually have the resist energy spell on their list in official material.
Use the metamagic - 1 feat, +1 spell level = +5
Feats are too precious to waste, even for humans.
Jiggy wrote: I thought "the blaster build" involved one level of Crossblooded Orc/Draconic sorcerer followed by all the rest of your levels being in Admixture wizard? (Not that I like the build, though...) That is a good build too. I built around caustic eruption. Since Evocation doesn't add to conjuration spells, I didn't bother with that path. Besides I found it to be advantageous to be able to spontaneously add Empower and Quicken as needed rather than waiting to use the previously memorized spell slots at a key time. It's more fun to be able to use them at will.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I wonder if the OP is still around. :)
My opinion:
1)Burning the standard+move action is no worse than a martial class needing his full round to get his extra attacks. You still get your 5 foot step...or in the case where you are mounted you can direct to move the mount.
2)You can apply metamagics on the fly. This is quite handy.
A sorcerer using meta-magic is awesome. Very much more versatile than Wizard. To address your concerns as to using meta-magics with sorcerers, consider the following feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
these are pretty critical on amy caster type.
Piercing Spell feat is awesome at higher levels. Its only a +1 so its not gonna use up all your spell slots.
Echoing Spell feat is another awesome one b/c you get a 2 for one special..
I am of the opinion that I would rather have feats that allow me to cast in amy situation rather than cast more damaging/longer range..etc..
Those won't mean beans if your grappled or silenced.
A sorcerers bloodline can really make a difference in using meta-maagics. Look at the Arcae Bloodline. Its gives meta-magic benefits of casting at a standard action instead of a full round. And at 20th level, any spell you cast can be modified.
If you don't go with the Arcane bloodline, I would inquire of your GM to see if he would allow feats from The Summoners Circle book by Sigfriend Trent. It covers summoners of all types and even has a feat called "Fast Cast" that reduces the 1 round casting times down to 1 standard action. Plus a ton of feats for summoning monsters. Well worth the effort to get.
Anyway, theres my dollars worth.
Good luck.
Shoga wrote: A sorcerer using meta-magic is awesome. Very much more versatile than Wizard. To address your concerns as to using meta-magics with sorcerers, consider the following feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
these are pretty critical on amy caster type.
Only for casters who specialise in ray or missle weapon type spells, such as my Rouge/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster. :)
If your thing is area group blasting spells,your feats might want to go elsewhere. such as spell penetration and dazing.
andreww wrote: Sorcerers don't care about being elves. You go human for the extra spells known to offset the reduction from cross blooded. If you are concerned about SR then you use your bonus feat for Spell Penetration so you are still even with the Elf. Of course outside of PFS you are also probably taking Racial Heritage: Half Elf for Paragon Surge and complete flexibility. Being an elven sorcerer has it's advantages... Low Light vision, and you start off with bow proficiency which gives you damage options at ranges beyond your spells.
LazarX wrote: Shoga wrote: A sorcerer using meta-magic is awesome. Very much more versatile than Wizard. To address your concerns as to using meta-magics with sorcerers, consider the following feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
these are pretty critical on amy caster type.
Only for casters who specialise in ray or missle weapon type spells, such as my Rouge/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster. :)
If your thing is area group blasting spells,your feats might want to go elsewhere. such as spell penetration and dazing. With PBS/PS I feel as they should be treated as a separate school in a way. I mean, when you choose what kind of offensive tactic to specialize, I feel you kind of have the following options:
SF+GSF in transmutation
SF+GSF in enchantment
SF+GSF in conjuration
SF+GSF in etc etc and so on for the schools
SF+Augment Summoning
PBS+Precise Shot
And honestly, since you can get at least two of those specializations, I feel it's better to go with one school plus PBS/PS than two schools; because the SF+GSF help with saves, while PBS+Precise Shot usually circumvents them completely. And let's face it, there are GOOD ranged touch attack spells even if you don't do some weird combinations - just a standard Enervation is powerful, as is Reach Calcific Touch against certain enemies (hi dragons!)
LazarX wrote: Being an elven sorcerer has it's advantages... Low Light vision, and you start off with bow proficiency which gives you damage options at ranges beyond your spells. For these you would give up an extra feat, a skill point, a 50% increase in your spells known and no initial stat bonus in Cha? No thanks, I will just use one of my extra spells known to grab Darkvision or Alter Self or Elemental Body and the bow will be pointless after about level 3.
If youre a sage sorcerer you get the +2 cast star as an elf. Other than that, agreed.
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Yeah, but then you're not nearly as pretty. ;)
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Ilja wrote: If youre a sage sorcerer you get the +2 cast star as an elf. Other than that, agreed. True but that is still one archetype for one bloodline and you have to give up a huge increase in your spells known for it. As I said, no thanks, it's a terrible deal for any flavour of sorcerer.
And a Half-Elf using Ancestral Arms can have proficiency in any weapon I will point out AND gets the awesome racial spell: Paragon Surge.
I have a superfun tattooed orc-blooded sorcerer in PFS who grabbed reach spell and magical lineage at first level so she could throw shocking grasps into people's faces from 30ft away. I don't know if it's optimal, but it's damn satisfying :D
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote: I have a superfun tattooed orc-blooded sorcerer in PFS who grabbed reach spell and magical lineage at first level so she could throw shocking grasps into people's faces from 30ft away. I don't know if it's optimal, but it's damn satisfying :D
Snow ball does similar damage with a built in debuff and can have rime spell applied to it without use of reach spell for additional debuff.
I went half-elf Sage Bloodline. took UMB up massively using the skill focus and got the Magic Trait: Pragmatic Activator which adds my Int to UMD checks. So now my primary attribute is Intelligence which in my opinion is more usefull than Charisma. And yes, I have been going down the Ray line but I am considering doing polymorphs later.
Feats I am taking:
CB Eschew Materials
RB Skill Focus (UMD)
1st Point-Blank Shot
3rd Precise Shot
5th Craft Wondrous Item: Create magic wondrous items
7th BF Scribe Scroll
7th Piercing Spell — affected spell treats creatures with SR as having an SR of 5 lower
9th Spell Penetration - +2 bonus on level checks to beat spell resistance
Through the sage bloodline arcana class ability, I would be able to reduce the casting time on the piercing option 2/day at 7th level.
Necroposting because of a sad discovery:
cannot use Elemental Commixture on a spontaneous blaster (i.e. Metamagic feats almost always applied on the same spells) :(
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