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I want make an Elf or Half-Elf Fighter/Ranger type with the Treeraze'Bane Trait and fighting with his Elven Curve Blade to use it in PFS, focus on Dex bonus.
Some off you have some advice to choose Feat, Stat, to make the build of this character efficient as Frontline, Damage Dealer particulary against Demon ?
So do you want have both levels in fighter and ranger, or are you listing them as acceptable options?
Anyway, you can actually get away with no strength bonus if you take at least two levels in ranger (since they can get power attack without the prerequisite 13 strength). Admittedly, you would probably still want at least a 14 in strength just to add more damage to each hit, especially since you are using a two handed weapon.
Ranger seems a bit more like a better option, since favored enemy can help cover the lack of strength bonus to some extent. Unlike with fighter's weapon training and weapon specialization, you can also get those bonuses onto a ranged weapon fairly early on. Focusing on evil outsiders and humans as favored enemies tends to seem like a safe bet in any campaign, no?
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Does it have to be an Elf/Half-Elf? Because Tengu get auto-proficiency with Elven Curved Blades, and have slightly better stat synergy (+2 INT isn't that great for a ranger v. +2 Dex.). Do you allow different options? Because if you make a Dex Based Paladin you could do lots of damage to demons. You should have at least a 14 STR. because the benefit of having a str. mod with ECB's is you get 1 1/2 STR. on hits, so you manage more damage than most dex builds, until you get agile.
Half Elf Ranger Guy
20 point buy
STR 14
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 8
Racial +2 into DEX for a 17 total
Ancestral Arms- Elven Curve Blade Proficiency
Can't find that trait you are talking about....
lvl 1) Weapon Finesse; EWP Elven Curve Blade; Favored Enemy Evil Outsider
lvl 2) Power Attack
lvl 3) Favored Defense; Endurance
lvl 4) +1 to DEX (18 total)
lvl 5) Improved Initiative*; Favored Enemy Gnolls
lvl 6) Furious Focus
lvl 7) Cornugon Smash
lvl 8) +1 DEX (19)
lvl 9) Dodge*
lvl 10) Dreadful Carnage
lvl 11) All Gnolls Must Die!
* These feats are place holders in case you find something else you like. Build is DEX based to accommodate the lack of heavy armor and the fact that you can use the curve blade with Finesse, eventually you will want that thing to be Agile.
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So do you want have both levels in fighter and ranger, or are you listing them as acceptable options?
Anyway, you can actually get away with no strength bonus if you take at least two levels in ranger (since they can get power attack without the prerequisite 13 strength). Admittedly, you would probably still want at least a 14 in strength just to add more damage to each hit, especially since you are using a two handed weapon.
Ranger seems a bit more like a better option, since favored enemy can help cover the lack of strength bonus to some extent. Unlike with fighter's weapon training and weapon specialization, you can also get those bonuses onto a ranged weapon fairly early on. Focusing on evil outsiders and humans as favored enemies tends to seem like a safe bet in any campaign, no?
I Ready to look other class option :)
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Does it have to be an Elf/Half-Elf? Because Tengu get auto-proficiency with Elven Curved Blades, and have slightly better stat synergy (+2 INT isn't that great for a ranger v. +2 Dex.). Do you allow different options? Because if you make a Dex Based Paladin you could do lots of damage to demons. You should have at least a 14 STR. because the benefit of having a str. mod with ECB's is you get 1 1/2 STR. on hits, so you manage more damage than most dex builds, until you get agile.
I prefer for background to Elf or an Half-Elf
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Treerazor's Bane [Link]
Source Inner Sea Primer pg. 10, Elves of Golarion pg. 15
Requirement(s) Kyonin
Having fought in many battles against the demon Treerazer, you have learned the best ways to kill the various creatures under his control. You gain a +2 trait bonus on weapon damage against demons, evil fey, and plants and animals corrupted by evil.
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Well, a rogue/ranger multi-class could work. 1 level of ranger for favored enemy (Outsider[evil]) and then levels of scout (rogue) focused on acrobatics, weapons finessing, just use acrobatics to move in circles around the demon and sneak attack because of the skirmisher class feature from rogue. Until then, you need to charge and flank for sneak attack. A Paladin with Oath of Vengeance is a great option for demon-slaying, and Oath against Fiends is based on killing evil outsiders I believe.
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A STR based ECB build is as effective, but with a feat to spare, which is nice. If you want to focus on melee I'd go that route.
If you want to be a switch-hitter then I'd go DEX based but keep that STR at 14.
If you want to multiclass w/Rogue for Sneak Attack I'd prefer Ninja myself. You can still take Scout archetype as far as I know. Invisibility Trick and Shadow Clone are really nice for the light/medium armoured character that wants to mix it up in melee.
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I might suggest just sucking up the modest loss in damage until you can afford to add Agile to the weapon enchantment. I agree with the Ranger dip in order to get both favored enemy and the power attack feat. This lets you focus on Dex, use Power Attack, and add your Dex to Attack and Damage instead of Strength for the weapon. You will need to carefully review your armor options in order take best advantage of your high Dex. I often urge people to look into Dangerously Curious for adding UMD as a class skill. Being able to cast Shield on yourself or other wands in general is pretty awesome.
Treerazor's Bane [Link]
Source Inner Sea Primer pg. 10, Elves of Golarion pg. 15
Requirement(s) Kyonin
Having fought in many battles against the demon Treerazer, you have learned the best ways to kill the various creatures under his control. You gain a +2 trait bonus on weapon damage against demons, evil fey, and plants and animals corrupted by evil.
Hmmm... that is pretty good. A rather nice swath of targets. You might want to put the favored enemy at first level into human since you already have a way to add damage against demons. Human tends to be a good choice simply because of how common they tend to be in general.
While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
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While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
Sure there's a decent argument for that, but you can increase your threat range with a feat, consumables, spells, and the enchantment. There is only one way to add Dexterity to damage that I can recall. It is usually better to bump static damage first, especially when that can be a significant amount. (18/+4 = +6 for two-handed)
1d10+6 and 15% of the time threaten 2d10+12
or
1d10 and 30% of the time threaten 2d10.
@Rerednaw I think part the stricture on race (elven or half-elven) is to allow for use of the Elven Curved Blade without feat requirements. Since Elves can use anything elvish and Half-Elves can swap for Ancestral Arms. I might be wrong.
Um not to throw a monkey wrench...but is there any reason you want the Elven Curve Blade? Like Demonsorrow?
Nodachi is otherwise pretty close and saves you a feat.
Just a thought...
Plus some DMs might restrict eastern weapons and armor.
While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
Sure there's a decent argument for that, but you can increase your threat range with a feat, consumables, spells, and the enchantment. There is only one way to add Dexterity to damage that I can recall. It is usually better to bump static damage first, especially when that can be a significant amount. (18/+4 = +6 for two-handed)
1d10+6 and 15% of the time threaten 2d10+12
or
1d10 and 30% of the time threaten 2d10.
Keen edge is a third level spell, so most cannot use it until level 5, and even then this character is meant to be more melee focused. I tend not to trust consumables, and since it is PFS he cannot regularly rely on an allies at all for spellcasting.
From my understanding (and google fu), static bonuses such as power attack gets multiplied by critical hits. That is a large part of the elven curved blade's attraction: you can do a dex build but get all the benefits of two handing such as 150% power attack bonuses.
Now admittedly, I will acknowledge that the cost of a +2 weapon becomes more realistic at the same time improved critical becomes an option. But I'd still see it as an option worth considering since it is still possible (if a bit painful on the wallet)to obtain about 3 levels earlier than improved critical (only two levels earlier if he goes with a fighter though). That can be a long time in PFS.
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You can pick up Power Attack from Ranger bonus feat at Level 2 by selecting Two-handed combat style, so the character should have it either way.
Sure, I agreed that there was a reasonable argument for picking up an improved threat range.
I think there is a stronger argument for picking up the Agile property as early as possible and shirking Strength in favor of more Dexterity. Both Agile and Keen are +1 equivalent enhancements. Minnimum weapon cost is 4000+materials for either. That means these will be acquired at the same time. I would rather wait a few levels for the increased critical chance and get the static damage right away. If we assume an 18 Dex at level 4, this character could be swinging for 1d10+10(Dex=6+PA=3+Wpn=1) each attack.
I would personally go for the large increase to consistent damage over the occasional increase for a critical. Mathematically it's more damage at an earlier level and has the benefit of affecting creatures which are immune to critical hits.
Also, because it is PFS, if I invest in a weapon enchant I can acquire through feats I am spending money I can't fully get back for an enchantment that has a less ubiquitous application. For example...
I spend my 4k+materials and get +1,Keen, then when I am eligible for Improved Critical I can take it, refund my weapon for half value and spend my money again, take something different, or take it merely as a pre-req.
If I spend my money on +1,Agile I can take Improved Critical and I come out ahead.
I prefer Agile early for those reasons. That's just me. :)
I want make an Elf or Half-Elf Fighter/Ranger type with the Treeraze'Bane Trait and fighting with his Elven Curve Blade to use it in PFS, focus on Dex bonus.
Some off you have some advice to choose Feat, Stat, to make the build of this character efficient as Frontline, Damage Dealer particulary against Demon ?
Check out the Weaponmaster.
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While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
Sure there's a decent argument for that, but you can increase your threat range with a feat, consumables, spells, and the enchantment. There is only one way to add Dexterity to damage that I can recall. It is usually better to bump static damage first, especially when that can be a significant amount. (18/+4 = +6 for two-handed)
1d10+6 and 15% of the time threaten 2d10+12
or
1d10 and 30% of the time threaten 2d10.@Rerednaw I think part the stricture on race (elven or half-elven) is to allow for use of the Elven Curved Blade without feat requirements. Since Elves can use anything elvish and Half-Elves can swap for Ancestral Arms. I might be wrong.
I didn't think Agile let you use 1.5 x DEX when using a weapon 2-handed? Could be wrong...
I didn't think Agile let you use 1.5 x DEX when using a weapon 2-handed? Could be wrong...
While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
Sure there's a decent argument for that, but you can increase your threat range with a feat, consumables, spells, and the enchantment. There is only one way to add Dexterity to damage that I can recall. It is usually better to bump static damage first, especially when that can be a significant amount. (18/+4 = +6 for two-handed)
1d10+6 and 15% of the time threaten 2d10+12
or
1d10 and 30% of the time threaten 2d10.@Rerednaw I think part the stricture on race (elven or half-elven) is to allow for use of the Elven Curved Blade without feat requirements. Since Elves can use anything elvish and Half-Elves can swap for Ancestral Arms. I might be wrong.
It does not, but I cannot justify using an elven curve blade over a nodachi without finessing it, and I can't justify finessing it without Agile.
Overall he will be missing out on about 3 damage per swing. I'm pretty sure power attack still applies 1:3 damage.
If you are interested in up'ing damage output, I would add static bonuses that can be multiplied on a critical; it the whole point of having wide critical threat range. Power attack is great for this, along with weapon specialization, weapon training, and favored enemy. Burst weapons also help, but not necessary. Smite is also great for this.
I think there are a few rage abilities that boost two handed damage. This would rule out smite, however. I also remember some psionic items that added a flat bonus to damage in 3.5, but I don't know if similar items translated over.
Two handed Power Attack is +3 to damage per -1 to hit.
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I didn't think Agile let you use 1.5 x DEX when using a weapon 2-handed? Could be wrong...
While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
Sure there's a decent argument for that, but you can increase your threat range with a feat, consumables, spells, and the enchantment. There is only one way to add Dexterity to damage that I can recall. It is usually better to bump static damage first, especially when that can be a significant amount. (18/+4 = +6 for two-handed)
1d10+6 and 15% of the time threaten 2d10+12
or
1d10 and 30% of the time threaten 2d10.@Rerednaw I think part the stricture on race (elven or half-elven) is to allow for use of the Elven Curved Blade without feat requirements. Since Elves can use anything elvish and Half-Elves can swap for Ancestral Arms. I might be wrong.
It does not, but I cannot justify using an elven curve blade over a nodachi without finessing it, and I can't justify finessing it without Agile.
Overall he will be missing out on about 3 damage per swing. I'm pretty sure power attack still applies 1:3 damage.
You are correct about the Power Attack ratio being 3:1. If he goes with a STR route it's really a moot point if he uses Nodachi or ECB if he plays an Elven character which Is proficient in both. Unless you happen to value the Brace feature over flavour.
You are correct about the Power Attack ratio being 3:1. If he goes with a STR route it's really a moot point if he uses Nodachi or ECB if he plays an Elven character which Is proficient in both. Unless you happen to value the Brace feature over flavour.I didn't think Agile let you use 1.5 x DEX when using a weapon 2-handed? Could be wrong...
While agile can be nice for a dex build, I think keen might be a better weapon property to pick up first if you can. With that 18-20 crit range, doubling it with keen might bring you more damage overall.
Sure there's a decent argument for that, but you can increase your threat range with a feat, consumables, spells, and the enchantment. There is only one way to add Dexterity to damage that I can recall. It is usually better to bump static damage first, especially when that can be a significant amount. (18/+4 = +6 for two-handed)
1d10+6 and 15% of the time threaten 2d10+12
or
1d10 and 30% of the time threaten 2d10.@Rerednaw I think part the stricture on race (elven or half-elven) is to allow for use of the Elven Curved Blade without feat requirements. Since Elves can use anything elvish and Half-Elves can swap for Ancestral Arms. I might be wrong.
It does not, but I cannot justify using an elven curve blade over a nodachi without finessing it, and I can't justify finessing it without Agile.
Overall he will be missing out on about 3 damage per swing. I'm pretty sure power attack still applies 1:3 damage.
I value a higher DEX for AC, initiative, and some very important skills like Acrobatics and Stealth, in a point buy it is important to balance your resources, and being DEX based means he can invest more in his other important stats like WIS, which controls his spellcasting and determines his Perception skill which is very important as a ranger.
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Also, because it is PFS, if I invest in a weapon enchant I can acquire through feats I am spending money I can't fully get back for an enchantment that has a less ubiquitous application. For example...
I spend my 4k+materials and get +1,Keen, then when I am eligible for Improved Critical I can take it, refund my weapon for half value and spend my money again, take something different, or take it merely as a pre-req.If I spend my money on +1,Agile I can take Improved Critical and I come out ahead.
I prefer Agile early for those reasons. That's just me. :)
You are a bit off in cost, a weapon must be +1 before any other enhantments can be applied to it (2000+materials), adding any other +1 effect e.g. Agile at +1 equivalent makes the weapon a +2 equivalent so the total cost comes out to 8000+materials. This bump up in your estimated cost brings the point at which you can purchase the agile on the weapon in PFS a bit later as you need something like 27 Fame to qualify for that purchase.
So unless you only ever spend your money on powering up your weapon and nothing else chances are you will have to wait a bit to purchase the weapon. While this still provides a damage boost over putting keen on the weapon, the percieved value of how early you can get it is a bit off.
Also do you intend to build the character with +0 in Str?
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Also keep in mind that the earliest that you can get Improved Critical is level 9 due to the BAB +8 requirement so by that point you could have a weapon with keen and agile on it by about the same time that you could have Imp Crit feat, freeing the slot up for other feats.
With the amount of fame that you should have well before level 9 you could easily afford to purchase both enchantments on a weapon.
Total cost of weapon with +1, Keen, and Agile:
cost of weapon+300 for masterwork+2000 for +1+6000 to make it Agile+10000 to finish it with Keen=18300+cost of weapon
Best case scenario is that you could have enough Fame for a purchase of this sort by the start of level 6 and you could easily have enough gold for it by level 7 or so if you focused your income mostly on the weapon
This feat might help with that.
What level are you building the character to? I find the best results in keeping dex and str fairly close together for front line fighters. Otherwise I run into things like max dex bonus on armor, cash limits, and limited number of feats that don't let the concept work until a certain higher level.
If building to level 4 like one example above, I like half elf paladin with str 14, dex16, con14, int 10, wis 10, cha 14 and power attack/furious focus for my first two feats. Let's me get full use of armor for ac, good saves, balanced to hit and hit points, plus I shine when the demons show up. Next level, I can pop keen on my +1 weapon for no cash and put that into stat boosts. Damage would be 1d10+3(str)1(weapon)6(PA) or +10 at lvl 4 with no penalty to hit (+7) and a big boost against demons.
I also like elf two handed fighter archetype with str 16, dex 16, con12, int 12, wis 12, cha 8 and the envoy racial trait to give you some SLAs to do outside of combat for fun. Feats are power attack, toughness, furious focus, iron will, weapon focus. Better attack but lower saves than the pally. Attack is +9 for 1d10+ 4(str)1(weapon)6(PA)4(archetype) or +15. I might replace weapon focus for combat reflexes to try to get more chances to crit off-turn. Again, cash can go to stat upgrades and boosting str to 18 gives +4 more damage.