Hello, I'm new to the community so sorry if this is in the wrong section.
Anyhow, I don't really have a lot of experience with d20 based games (casually played D&D 2nd edition for ~2years)and I plan on starting Pathfinder with some friends (DM + 6 players) so looking to make a good, well rounded Elf Wizard Conjurer (teleportation)(enchantment and necromancy opp. schools)with bonded ring and would be great if you could provide some help. :D
While I'm not really sure which spells I'll take considering I don't even know yet what other classes there will be I certainly plan focusing on battlefield control (clouds, pits, summon monsters), buffs and obligatory defense (invisibility, teleport, mirror image, etc...) so I guess in that part I'll kinda have to figure it out by myself.
What I really need help with is Feats. My current plan looks something like this:
1b. Spell Focus (conjuration)
3. Augment Summoning
5a. Improved Initiative
5b. Craft Wondrous Item
7. Spell Specialization
9. Greater Spell Specialization
10. Spell Penetration
Haven't gone past that since I'm not sure we'll get to or past level 10 although I'm 90% sure I'd take Quicken Spell at 15th)
If DM allows I plan on taking Fleet Footed (elf alternate racial) for +2 initiative aswell as traits Warriors of Old/Reactionary for +2 trait initiative and Focused Mind(+2 concentration) as my 2nd trait.
The thing that troubles me about Feats is Augment Summoning and I'm not sure how good would Greater Spell Specialization be with Spell Focus (conjuration) so my question is how good is augment summoning and summoning in general at higher levels (specifically SM V and higher) and any advice on which conjuration spell to use for Spell Specialization and is it even worth it without different spell focus?
Also, I didn't go with Metamagic feats because outside of Quicken spell I don't find then very useful and those that can really be handy (daze, reach, extend) I feel I could get away with just having respective rods and learning them past level 10 where I guess most of them shine since low level wizard doesnt really have many spare high level spell slots.
Hope I didn't confuse you much, any and all help is very much appreciated. :)
That's a lot of questions. Some general answers.
Summoning ROX. Summon Monster is possibly the most powerful spell family in the game.
Augment Summoning is great, but the feat tax of Spell Focus is rather stupid. The ability to spont cast a specific summon monster means you never need to memorize it and you've always got a fallback combat spell.
Metamagic feats except for quicken are best left for sorcerers and rods.
Augment Summoning is an excellent feat. Any character that plans on summoning often should take it.
The best advice I can give you is to check out the Guide to Guides on this forum. Treantmonk's guide to wizards is quite useful, especially for a conjurer, and the others should help you out as well.
EDIT: fixed typos and spelling errors.
Generally sounds good, though I might take a bit more care to be survivable. Or opts that something you're relying on spells to cover?
Conjuration is a powerful and flexible school: you can do just about anything with it. The trick will be figuring out what, in any particular situation, is a good thing to do.
woah, that was faster than expected, cheers!
As for guide I've heard Treantmonk's guide was a bit out of date so I mostly focused on Professor Q's guide which seems up to date and people generally approve of it.
Defenses wise I really haven't taken anything to improve it because I feel that at the end of the day wizard has to rely on his spells to survive and not his AC and HP. I'm maybe completely off point here?
Any thoughts on Superior Summoning?
I feel kinda bad taking 3 feats just for summons which I love but don't really want to put a LOT of focus on it, I rather go with a summoner at that point if I'm honest.
Defenses include other things than HP and AC. Notably, saves, tactical awareness, and preparing the right things and/or having tricks in reserve.
Treantmomk's guide is old, but a lot of the basic principles still apply, even if there's a lot more stuff available to consider. Also, if you're new to Pathfinder, he covers a lot of the basics quite well.
If you don't want to do lots of summoning, then skip Superior Summins. But you should have a feel for how much you want to do by the time you get to where you can take that feat.
Do you have any idea what kind of story the GM is looking to run?
Nope, I have no clue what story and which classes we'll have but I'm somewhat confident that as a conjurer I can always provide good things to the party no matter what.
@tonyz I expressed myself a bit wrong on that part. What I meant is that when looking at feats and traits taken only thing that could improve my survivability is a bit higher HP, AC and a random save (I'd probably take something for fortitude one).
I see your point but I probably won't take stuff like Toughness, Combat Casting, etc.. unless while playing I realize I would have great benefit from it.
Thanks for the advice on Superior Summoning.
EDIT:
@Rerednaw
From what I've read Dimensional Agility doesn't work with Shift, or does it start working when you acquire D-Door? I'll ask my DM and if he allows it I'll most likely take it.
I'll have all my spell descriptions as well as monster descriptions, I'm one of those guys that doesn't want to be caught unprepared :)
Okay. Here is the thing as a DM that runs 6+ player games. I HATE SUMMONING. Inevitably the summoning player is confused, does not have the rules for his/her summons ready and takes an ungodly amount of time to do his/her turn. In my games, if you are going to go down the summoning route then for everybody's benefit you must have A) The rules for your summon handy, with things like Augment Summoning or other benefits already applied. B) Be knowledgeable about your summons, so we are not spending ten or fifteen minutes trying to look up whatever special monster trait. C) Must deal with your own turn swiftly when it comes up. I hold Summoners/Summoning Wizards, etc to the same time standards as other characters.
Summoning is great, don't get me wrong. Just don't make it burden to everybody else at the table. Hand out control of your summons to another player if the DM approves it. Anything to keep the slow creep of combat from getting any slower.
I think even with my summons I'm still going to be one of the fastest guys because while we are all inexperienced I atleast put a lot of effort in research and try to depend on rules info from DM as little as possible.
Edit: I'll definitely consider this and talk to my party to see what's best.
What Steve Said about summoning -- if you're going to do it, especially in a large party, it's your responsibility not to slow down the game.
|
Summon Monster is a very awesome spell chain to take but it has a slight weakness. The weakness being that the monsters usually have a tough time getting through DR. A simple fix to this is a bit feat taxing but worth it. The fix requires taking a single level of Druid to qualify for the Moonlight, Starlight, and Sunlight Summons feats. The feats allow the monster's natural weapons count as magic, cold iron, and silver for the purpose of overcoming DR.
|
Have you by chance thought of playing a master summoner.
1. Forget the whole eidolon thing you do not need it
2. Great spell access
3. Really easy feat tree to figure out.
4. Great Fun
Like folks have echoed on here, pick 1-3 monsters per level you want to summon and have them ready on 3X5 Cards. Pass them out to fellow players.
So I've been thinking about maybe playing a human and long story short I really like Enervation with Preferred Spell and Spell Perfection so I came with these feats:
1a. Scribe Scroll
1b. Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1c. Improved Initiative
3. Augment Summoning
5a. Craft Wondrous Item
5b. Heighten Spell
7. Maximize Spell
9. Spell Penetration
10.Opposition Research (Necromancy)
11. Empower Spell
13. Preferred Spell (Enervation)
15a. Quicken Spell
15b. Spell Perfection (Enervation with Empower Spell and Maximize Spell)
17. Greater Spell Penetration
19. Preferred Spell
20. Immortality
since my understanding of Meta Feats ain't great I'm not even sure it would be legal so if there are some obvious flaws please say.
My plan at high levels would still be to summon monsters (unless both me, party and DM get sick of all the micromanaging that they require), buffs, debuffs and battlefield control but I feel this way I'd have an extra option.
Thoughts?
|
Tips and tricks: color code d20's and damage dice, and roll a chunk together.
Just use a dice rolling App on your phone/tablet. Even with the free ones you can set this up with little effort. Certainly not ever product is quality, but enough out there are.
@Raziel747 A little love to your familiar with Improved Familiar (instead of bonded item) can get you a familiar that uses items and can wear some equipment. A creature which can use potions/scrolls/wands, turn invisible, etc...is very handy and increases your action economy. This can reduce buffing and prep time on turn 1, as well as add fringe benefits, or enhance an Alpha Strike.
Heighten Spell is probably not the metamagic feat I would have chosen for a conjuration specialist. Most conjuration spells don't have saves, so raising the level of the spell (which basically raises the saving throw and enhances its ability to penetrate spell resistance) is not very useful.
I'd suggest Reach Spell instead to allow you to put your minions across town if you need to.
Actually, most of your metamagic seems not-very-useful when applied to your bread-and-butter conjuration spells and a complete rethink might be helpful.
If you know you're going to eventually want to do necromancy, why not pick a different opposed school from the start? Evocation is actually a pretty good opposed school for a conjuration specialist because you can get the combat effectiveness out of summoned monsters and the Snowball spell. The saved feat can be used for something else....
Familiars are great! Alertness and a boon are worth a lot more than a single spontaneous casting.
For Conjuration, focusing on summoning, I highly recommend Varisian Tattoo (Mage's Tattoo). A bump in CL means you get at least one more turn of your summon's duration, which can equate to a lot more damage when you summon 4+ things. Superior Summoning is where it's at, giving you another +1 creature summoned. Spell Specialization is fantastic in that you can every other level switch it to a new spell, i.e. your higher level summoning spell, and increase it's duration by another 2 rounds. Greater Spell Specialization can come in handy when you need to spont. cast a summon.
Dimensional Agility is also a must for you if you plan on doing teleportation school.
Extend Spell is a great metamagic for summoners and conjurers who want their battlefield control to last a little longer, and it's only a +1 level adjustment. Also remember spells like Acid Arrow and Corrosive Touch exist and can do damage without applying to SR.
Between Grease, Mists and Clouds, Creating Pits, and summoning denizens of monsters you shouldn't need to focus on necromancy spells like enervation. You only have so many spells, and you should have at least one or two Hastes prepared for combat with your buddies, as well as a Fly or Overland Flight spell.
Thanks for the advice guys.
Some thoughts here:
I only took Heighten Spell because it's a prerequisite for Preferred Spell.
From what I've read most people agree that a Familiar is better than bonded object but I just don't like it.
Dimensional Agility supposedly doesn't work with Shift (?)
When looking realistically we probably won't get to high enough level anyway to pull off Preferred Spell + Spell Perfection.
1b. Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1c. Improved Initiative
3. Augment Summoning
5a. Craft Wondrous Item
5b. Superior Summoning
7. Spell Specialization
9. Greater Spell Specialization
10. Extend Spell
11. Spell Penetration
13. Reach Spell
15a. Quicken Spell
15b. Spell Perfection
At lower levels I'd use rods for Extend and Reach and I'd get the feats themselves at higher levels when it gets a bit more expensive although both of these are the cheapest ones.