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An endless bandolier is a wondrous item. You can follow the rules of magic items and damage (say from sunder attacks).
Here is how my group played it out when something similar happened with fireball:
EDIT: Burning hands was another instance...
PC: Jeezabel aims his double barrel pistol and shoots.
Scores hit, damage roll etc.
GM: the Sorcerer behind you makes you the central target of fireball. Roll your reflex for me. DC X
PC: Success.
GM: Okay you are fine.
PC2: Ummm. my Holy gun is it too huh?
GM: Roll to save.
PC2: missed it. Do I need to mention I'm wearing the bandolier....
GM: which one?
PC2: My pretty one. About 50 of them.
GM: Okay. D6 will represent 10s. Roll a 6 they all go off.
*rolls 2*
GM: now roll a d10 to represent the "1s"
*rolls 4*
GM: The fireball ignites 24 shots from your bandolier, sending shots everywhere. Everyone make a reflex save DC 24 in a 30 foot radius from there.
We all made it, but the sorcerer who casted fireball rolled a 1. Best villain counter death of random chance ever...
I believe the designers noted that ammunition and such would only be affected if you fumbled your Reflex save. I'll see if I can track it down.
I believe the designers noted that ammunition and such would only be affected if you fumbled your Reflex save. I'll see if I can track it down.
Yeah my group often ignores the possibility of damaging items from AoE spells. That's not RAW, but I don't know under exactly what conditions items become damaged by AoE.
And players really hate it when their stuff gets destroyed.
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The bandolier is attended so won't take any damage unless a Natural 1 is rolled.
A magic item doesn't need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them—even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item's saving throw bonus equals 2 + 1/2 its caster level (rounded down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores.
Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost. Magic items that take damage in excess of half their total hit points, but not more than their total hit points, gain the broken condition, and might not function properly
Also, even if it were non-magical I'm fairly certain a player could hold a piece of tissue paper in his hands as the fireball went off and nothing would happen to it. Natural 1 on the players save being the exception.
Another thing to factor in is that the Endless Bandolier makes use of extradimensional spaces.
It only calls these out for the pockets for powder horns and such but the fact that it looks like it can only hold 20 rounds of ammunition, but can instead hold 60, would come into play even on a fumbled save (i.e., at most 20 rounds of ammunition would explode; the other 40 aren't 'in' the same space as everything else).
It's not quite impossible, by RAW, but really very unlikely.
From the CRB:
Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt.
Order* Item
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Magic helmet, hat, or headband
4th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
5th Magic cloak
6th Stowed or sheathed weapon
7th Magic bracers
8th Magic clothing
9th Magic jewelry (including rings)
10th Anything else
Bandoliers and/or Ammo are not listed. If the bandolier is magical, it might qualify as "Magical clothing" since it occupies the same slot as a shirt. Otherwise, this is all under the "Anything else" category.
So, to affect an "Anything else", the victim must fail a savingthrow with a natural 1. Then he must answer "No" at least 7 times to whether he has any of the items higher on the list. A gunslinger probably has no shield, but does have armor and a weapon in hand. Probably a cloak. Probably a secondary weapon in a sheath. Maybe bracers, maybe clothing, possibly jewelry.
If he says "Yes" to any FOUR things higher on the list, then his ammo is safe. Presumably, if he is low level, he doesn't have much magical stuff yet, so all he says "Yes" to is Armor, Weapon, and Stowed or sheathed weapon, so he could qualify for a "Yes" to Anything else.
If we decide he actually makes it all the way to Anything else, then we have to decide about all the many things he might be carrying that qualify as "Anything else" - his boots, pants, belt, socks, shirt, backpack, belt pouches, water skin, etc. If the GM decides that his ammo bandolier is the one thing (out of many) that qualifies as "Anything else", then there is still the random roll, just a 1 in 4 chance that the bandolier is hit rather than the armor, weapon, and sheathed weapon.
If we make it that far and the bandolier is the unlucky victim, then I say all is fair in love and war: count the number of ammo rounds, assume they all go off, assume half of them blast into the gunslinger's body, so roll full damage for all rounds and divide by 2.
Then go get your 5,000 gp diamond and raise the poor schmuck.
Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks: Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt.
Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks
Order* Item
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Magic helmet, hat, or headband
4th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
5th Magic cloak
6th Stowed or sheathed weapon
7th Magic bracers
8th Magic clothing
9th Magic jewelry (including rings)
10th Anything else
* In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.If the selected item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.
It would be exceedingly rare for the bandolier to take any damage by the rules. Even on a Nat 1 failed save there is a decent chance it isn't in the top 4 most likely to be damaged. And even then, it's the bandolier, not the ammunition that is damaged.
EDIT:Ninja'd
His cartridges are at no more risk than his ring of protection, his cloak of resistance, or a wizard's spellbook. That is just not part of the game unless a natural 1 is rolled on the save and then the items affected are limited.
If a DM made a called shot on a character's cartridges, I would thank the DM for his time and get a new one.
Ultimately, I agree that a funny and spectacular death can be a memorable occurrence that everyone talks about for years. Had a couple of those myself.
This is no such death. This (if used) would be a character getting obliterated because of his own class abilities. You don't see a fighter having a chance that his magical sword or armor explodes and kills him when he gets hit by a fireball, you don't see the wizard's spellbook or the witch's familiar or the rogue's lockpicks or the cleric's holy symbol exploding and killing them either. In the end, if this is used, it makes the Gunslinger's ONLY useful class ability (firing weapons with gunpowder) become a suicidal liability that only members of that class really suffer.
Not practical, at least from a game balance perspective.
Those tables were great.
Until you had a new player show up with his 10th level cavalier with 8 permanent beneficial abilities from mixing potions (and 6 more from the Deck of Many Things). And psionics.
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It's not quite impossible, by RAW, but really very unlikely.
From the CRB:
Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt.
Order* Item
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Magic helmet, hat, or headband
4th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
5th Magic cloak
6th Stowed or sheathed weapon
7th Magic bracers
8th Magic clothing
9th Magic jewelry (including rings)
10th Anything elseBandoliers and/or Ammo are not listed. If the bandolier is magical, it might qualify as "Magical clothing" since it occupies the same slot as a shirt. Otherwise, this is all under the "Anything else" category.
So, to affect an "Anything else", the victim must fail a savingthrow with a natural 1. Then he must answer "No" at least 7 times to whether he has any of the items higher on the list. A gunslinger probably has no shield, but does have armor and a weapon in hand. Probably a cloak. Probably a secondary weapon in a sheath. Maybe bracers, maybe clothing, possibly jewelry.
If he says "Yes" to any FOUR things higher on the list, then his ammo is safe. Presumably, if he is low level, he doesn't have much magical stuff yet, so all he says "Yes" to is Armor, Weapon, and Stowed or sheathed weapon, so he could qualify for a "Yes" to Anything else.
If we decide he actually makes it all the way to Anything else, then we have to decide about all the many things he might be carrying that qualify as...
I see the rules you've quoted and believe you are ALMOST right in your interpretation.
The one thing you might have missed is this line here:
Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them.
YOu don't go down the list and check them off, the DM looks at the list and picks the top 4 items most likely to be affected in order.
In this case if the GM rules (likely in this case) that the bandolier is one of the 4 likely targets to take damage from fire then you are looking at a 25% chance that it will be damaged.
I'd personally agree that a leather/cloth bandolier is far more likely to take damage from fire then a metal weapon or armor. Drop those targets from the list and it becomes (in order)
1. Magic Hat/helmet/headband
2. Magic Cloak
3. Magic Bracers
4. Magic Clothing (Bandolier goes here)
So unless your Gunslinger is wearing a wooden shield, wielding a wand or carrying a stored/sheathed wood/leather weapon that bandolier should always be a possibility from a fire attack.
Simple rule, don't roll a 1 on a save.
Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them.YOu don't go down the list and check them off, the DM looks at the list and picks the top 4 items most likely to be affected in order.
Actually, that's exactly what you do. DM_Blake unfortunately left off the footnote for the order asterisk:
* In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.
As I and DM_Blake read it, you go down, item by item, determining what the spell will hit. Does the gunslinger have an X? If yes, add to list of potentially affect items, and move to the next entry. If no, move to the next entry. Do this until you have 4 items.
Whether an item will be more affected or less affected doesn't play into it. This just determines if it's even hit. If you think there would be some vulnerability, apply that to the damage the item takes, not the odds of whether it'll be hit.
Simple rule, don't roll a 1 on a save.
Oh, it's so obvious! I will make sure to follow this rule that I have complete control over, and never risk having a 1 in 20 chance of spontaneously combusting, as a character feature!
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Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them.YOu don't go down the list and check them off, the DM looks at the list and picks the top 4 items most likely to be affected in order.
Actually, that's exactly what you do. DM_Blake unfortunately left off the footnote for the order asterisk:
* In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.As I and DM_Blake read it, you go down, item by item, determining what the spell will hit. Does the gunslinger have an X? If yes, add to list of potentially affect items, and move to the next entry. If no, move to the next entry. Do this until you have 4 items.
Whether an item will be more affected or less affected doesn't play into it. This just determines if it's even hit. If you think there would be some vulnerability, apply that to the damage the item takes, not the odds of whether it'll be hit.
Simple rule, don't roll a 1 on a save.Oh, it's so obvious! I will make sure to follow this rule that I have complete control over, and never risk having a 1 in 20 chance of spontaneously combusting, as a character feature!
Read it again, it doesn't say potentially affected, it specifies MOST LIKELY to be affected. In other words you go down the list and pick an item and compare it to the previously selected item and ask this question:
Is this item more or less likely to be affected? If it is it goes on the list and the previously chosen item comes off the list.Do this till you have 4 items on the list that are equally likely to be affected and then roll a D4 to see which one gets hit. That's how this rule works.
Keep in mind that even if the bandolier is damaged by fire, that won't "project" the shots within for any distance. Bullets fired from guns move because all the energy is behind them in a narrow barrel. Ignite a bullet somehow without that, and it just explodes in place.
See this story from Florida (where else) for an example.
The bullet casing bits may hurt someone, but not at much of a distance. In the case of paper cartridges, no metal casing to turn into shrapnel, but black powder explodes (rather than burning like gunpowder) so should be hot - you're probably only looking at a bit of extra fire damage (say 1 point per cartridge?) to the wearer - and ruining the bandolier, of course.
That's how you see that the rule works. I understand "most likely to be affected" a little differently that you. I agree with Jorshamo and, as the DM, I will go down the list asking if they have one the items and is it able to be affected by the spell. If so, it goes on the list of four. If not, I keep going until I get four.
Again, that is how I interpret that rule and we all know that fifty people can look at the same rule and interpret it fifty different ways and all fifty will call it RAW and argue with the other forty-nine.
So do it your way and I will do it mine and roll on!!
Besides, I hope we could all agree that the ammunition inside the Endless Bandolier which is an extra-dimensional space was never at jeopardy from exploding as it was never exposed to the fire anyway.
Read it again, it doesn't say potentially affected, it specifies MOST LIKELY to be affected.
And that's EXACTLY what that table is. It is listing what is most likely to be affected. A shield is ALWAYS more likely to be hit than armor, should you have both, and your cloak is in more danger than your ring. You not supposed to be looking through the list and guessing which items are at more risk, trying to fiat what position the character was in, and where the attack came from, and a host of other variables (The attack came from the back, so your cloak in the most likely hit!). You're suppose to look at the list, see which items are more likely to be hit (HINT: the ones that the top), and select the items in order, as long as they are valid targets for the player in question.
I suppose Hendelbolaf is right, though, to each their own.