@LazarX: Wrong type of Airship... These are more like Final Fantasy VII, FFXII and FF XIII Airships. Or at least last I checked.
Why not do like what pirates done? Line the interior with the Steel Plates.
You could dig out some AD&D Spelljammer information and convert it to Pathfinder. Those ships are just Airships with a magical helm.
The conventional weapons, ship-to-ship combat rules, defenses, etc...would be largely translateable.
But that's not to say nothing is possible. I think some of your best options are wands and a couple of guys with a high UMD.
It is very expensive to enchant things permenantly. But wands are relatively cheap.
I definitely plan to have a "weapon locker" of wands on the ship. If nothing else, it'll give our cowardly bard something to do. :p
Beefing up the hull won't help you spit if the gasbag is sundered.
Our airship doesn't have a gasbag. It's an Eberron-type ship, so held aloft by magic rather than hot gas. :)
On the bright side though, forced landings are yet another way to begin a new adventure.
Heh, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened at least once.
Why not do like what pirates done? Line the interior with the Steel Plates.
That's a great idea. Especially since it turns out that ironwood is as heavy as steel...
Well what they done was the wood was thin and just on the outside to hide the fact that the real outside of the ship was a Steel skin with reinforced ribbing.
And do Eberron Ships have a Max Weight? (Been a while since I read on them.) Last I checked they just lost a little bit of speed.
Also an Armory/Weapon Locker is a great idea.
Might be best to use the Skyland setting's Airships...
I personally am using the Room/Building Rules and adding an Engine Room which is required to build them and its level/number of them determining the max size of the ship.
Though yes Eberron requires Soarwood but can be reinforced and such.
Yes, you try putting heavy armor inside of soarwood and you effectively defeat it's purpose, because the ship will be too heavy to lift off the ground. Airships aren't generally the things you use to move a lot of cargo.
But what about all that human cargo I needed to transport for the dragon's feast? He will not be pleased!
The rules may allow some armoring still, you'll have to check. But you probably won't be able to add 6-inch steel plating etc. It's not a flying fortress.... yet.
*note to self: build flying fortress
Yeah, this is why I liked ironwood before I realized it made the wood heavier. And I still like my Wall of Force shield idea.
I'm thinking perhaps Wall of Force shields for the sides of the hull, and perhaps an alchemical treatment of some kind for the deck, to reinforce it against cannonfire. Plus a Hallow on the entire ship, with a linked Protection from Fire. None of those should weigh much and should at least provide a foundational defense.
Then for offense, a weapon locker with appropriate wands, lightning guns powered by our lightning net, and bombs (again provided by the alchemist).
I'm also thinking some sort of main gun would be nifty. But instead of being something that is powerful and requires fuel/charging on its own, perhaps some kind of magnification device that would allow one of our clerics to cast a capital-ship level Searing Light or Flamestrike at the enemy gunship. The idea of it requiring power from a PC seems cinematic and appealing to me.
Soarwood is magical to be light and naturally buoyant plus it is powered by a Bound Elemental.
I am perfectly fine with the Good Offense strategy. I just feel that there need to be some defenses to keep us aloft while we're boarding the enemy ship. :) I fully expect that us boarding and taking out the opposing crew will be 75% or more of our airship combat.
That said, I've always loved airships. I don't know how many people recall the game Skies of Arcadia but it was a great airship based RPG for the Dreamcast. And Final Fantasy, etc.
So I am eager to have an airship with shields and bombs and lightning guns, etc. etc.
Oh, forgot to mention in my previous post while I was summarizing some of the great ideas in this thread so far, I am definitely thinking air and/or water elementals may be key as well. Not sure yet how to get them yet. Maybe an idea will pop up in this thread. :)
Our ship's soarwood will not, as I mentioned, be powered by a bound elemental. Apparently the standard elementals so bound are actually sentient, which bothers my PC greatly. I'm hoping that we can make our airship prototype engine perform as well or better than the standard bound elemental design.
An interesting twist: Originally we had thought we were going to be enemies of the Great House that controls airships in Eberron. But it turns out we may wind up being a legitimate ally of said House (one of our party members will be joining them.) This means we will at least not be hunted generally by every airship we come across, but only by those of our enemies, which do include a Great House...but at least not the Great House of Airships, as it were. :p
I will agree on Small and Agile. The problem is you might encounter Pirates using similar tactics.
well I have to say... just doing ship to ship battle by the sea... its easiest to be as small of target you can be... as quick as you can...
We definitely have the small part down. I am hoping that our prototype engine will be faster, and our ship in general more maneuverable than average. We'll have to see how things stand once my magus-engineer PC, the alchemist-engineer PC, and the NPC engineer in Sharn get together and go over the design the NPC's been working on.
Uhm... Eberron only works with Elementals and most are actually willingly bound...
Uhm... Eberron only works with Elementals and most are actually willingly bound...
Our game is an Eberron-Hybrid campaign, meaning it's generally Eberron but modified in some ways by the DM. He's actually using Eberron to model an original campaign world we played in for 2 years earlier (levels 1-20) far into its future (so our original characters are now myth/legend).
And yes, up to this point all airships have been powered by bound elementals. That's why our engine would be a prototype, ie. a new technology. When we first got our broken down airship and my magus looked into repairing it and learned about the technology, he immediately started looking into the possibility of powering the airship via something other than a bound elemental. Eventually we came across the info that there's an engineer in Sharn who has been researching the idea, which is why we're going there to talk with him.
I'm not very familiar with Eberron in general other than what we've encountered in our game so far, and had no idea that some or most of the elementals are "willingly bound." That does make me happy though, since it means that if this prototype doesn't work out, we may still be able to power our airship without resorting to slavery.
Well how it typically works out is the Elementals agree to be bound in exchange for various stuff they want. So an Earth Elemental might accept Crystals while a Water Elemental might take rare liquids or fine wines.
I think one of the Named Vessels is actually powered by a Fire Elemental and Water Elemental with the Water Elemental wanting fine Liquor and the Fire Elemental wanting unique carved trinkets made by their Dwarven Shipwright(What is the term used?).
I still love how Page 29 of the Explorer's Handbook has a Side-Bar on how to survive a crashing Airship.
EDIT: Actually it seems there are both with my quoting being the rarer of the 2... Though it seems Eberron's Elementals are viewed as just Intelligent Forces of Nature and not so much Sentient...
EDIT: Actually it seems there are both with my quoting being the rarer of the 2... Though it seems Eberron's Elementals are viewed as just Intelligent Forces of Nature and not so much Sentient...
I can't speak for the actual Eberron. As I mentioned, our game is basically using Eberron to emulate our previous original campaign world far into its future, so parts of it will naturally not match.
At least as I understand it, in our world, all the bound elementals are both sentient and unwillingly bound. Or at least that's what my PC has been led to believe, hence his need to find an alternative way to power his own airship.
I did, before I learned about this engineer in Sharn, ask about possibly using a non-sentient creature from an elemental plane or something as a substitute. But there doesn't seem to be much potential there, for whatever reason.
If this engineer in Sharn's design doesn't work out, I'll have to remember your story though. Perhaps we could find an elemental willing to be bound for some kind of pay, as at least some of the Eberron elementals apparently are. :)
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On the topic of willingly bound elementals and a good offensive strategy I just had an amazing idea. If your DM will allow it you could theoretically construct a railgun using a few strips of steel or some other conductive metal and a lightning elemental who craves alcohol. Basic principles is that the elemental charges the steel rails and the projectile (insert science techno-babble) and BOOM you got yourself one f you heading for your eneimes at super velocity.
Also for added awesomesauce the elemental being an alcoholic could also talk like sailor, and BAM one foul talking booze drinking weapon of mass destruction.
of course that's only if your DM lets you. But hey, you know you want it....
of course that's only if your DM lets you. But hey, you know you want it....
Heh! A railgun might be slightly too techy for him, and truth be told I'd be more worried that if I brought it up, it'd start showing up on the bad guys' gunships!
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of course that's only if your DM lets you. But hey, you know you want it....Heh! A railgun might be slightly too techy for him, and truth be told I'd be more worried that if I brought it up, it'd start showing up on the bad guys' gunships!
True at least I didn't suggest my idea for a cannon that's more just a steel pipe with permanence cast on it that's got a open and close able Gate spell at one end linked to the elemental plane of fire....
yeah...maybe I should stop suggesting things...
If you can swing it an item that generates protection from arrows for the airship would be good. But as soon as they have magical arrows/bows/siege engines then that's negated but it should be useful against average ranged weapons.
This might be a very good candidate for one of the wands in the Weapons Locker, actually. I don't foresee arrows being a huge issue in airship combat, but if we do encounter a ship full of archers, having this spell available would be absolutely golden. It's all about circumstances.
of course that's only if your DM lets you. But hey, you know you want it....Heh! A railgun might be slightly too techy for him, and truth be told I'd be more worried that if I brought it up, it'd start showing up on the bad guys' gunships!True at least I didn't suggest my idea for a cannon that's more just a steel pipe with permanence cast on it that's got a open and close able Gate spell at one end linked to the elemental plane of fire....
yeah...maybe I should stop suggesting things...
Heh! No, don't be afraid to suggest anything that comes to mind. I may not take some ideas to my DM (like the iron golem cannon made of an iron golem that shoots iron golems :p) but even the most outlandish ideas might spark something that does wind up showing up on our airship. You never know where inspiration will strike. :)
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there are old 3.x rules for animated seige engines such as ballistae if you have the funds/someone to steal from. perhaps you could bind an extra elemental for element appropriate blasts. such as fire beams for a fire elemental, ect. this may offend fantasy purists, but i have seen rules for steam powered crossbows and ballistae that fire twice per round.
I love how very few things can actually damage the ships significantly...
My Eberron Ship was/is powered by a Fire Elemental that my Fire Sorceress convinced to join her crew thanks to a Fire Elemental gained via the Improved Familiar Feat.
It's Eberron. It is a slap across the face for Fantasy Purists. Which is why I love it.
I love how very few things can actually damage the ships significantly...
Well, since our campaign is only based on Eberron and not Eberron itself, I won't count on that, though it'll be nice if true. :)
My Eberron Ship was/is powered by a Fire Elemental that my Fire Sorceress convinced to join her crew thanks to a Fire Elemental gained via the Improved Familiar Feat.
Nice! Ours will likely wind up powered by a prototype magical engine. Which is cool since two of the PCs are engineers.
It's Eberron. It is a slap across the face for Fantasy Purists. Which is why I love it.
Heh. There's still plenty of fantasy in our game even so, though I'll admit gunblades and airships are hardly standard fantasy fare. ;)
this may offend fantasy purists, but i have seen rules for steam powered crossbows and ballistae that fire twice per round.
Since our group already makes use of firearms, I doubt steam-powered ballistae would be out of place. It may not be necessary though. I think the current plan is to try for lightning cannons. If those aren't enough and we still have room on our little ship, we can try for steam powered arbalests and such!
I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned:
Iron spike of safe passage (2,000g each)
I vote Ejector Seats.
I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned:
Iron spike of safe passage (2,000g each)
Oh neat! This has not been mentioned yet, and could be the perfect way to disguise the ship!
I vote Ejector Seats.
I think we call those Ring of Featherfall. :p
I vote Ejector Seats.I think we call those Ring of Featherfall. :p
I meant defensive ones. As in- the villain has hijacked my ship and is holding a gun to the pilot. "What's this button do?" ;)
I love how very few things can actually damage the ships significantly...Well, since our campaign is only based on Eberron and not Eberron itself, I won't count on that, though it'll be nice if true. :)
Well their Damages were based on the Ship Combat Rules. IF you look in Explorer's Handbook they have a nice simple table with the Damage Modifiers.
My Eberron Ship was/is powered by a Fire Elemental that my Fire Sorceress convinced to join her crew thanks to a Fire Elemental gained via the Improved Familiar Feat.Nice! Ours will likely wind up powered by a prototype magical engine. Which is cool since two of the PCs are engineers.
I'm interested in how you guys are planning on designing it and such. Like how is it explained. My current Airship plan is to use the Mana Condensers and Mana Reactors from the Magic Tech Book. Which is from the same company as the Skylands Setting.
It's Eberron. It is a slap across the face for Fantasy Purists. Which is why I love it.Heh. There's still plenty of fantasy in our game even so, though I'll admit gunblades and airships are hardly standard fantasy fare. ;)
Well Eberron is still Fantasy it is just more Science Fantasy than normal.
I'm interested in how you guys are planning on designing it and such. Like how is it explained. My current Airship plan is to use the Mana Condensers and Mana Reactors from the Magic Tech Book. Which is from the same company as the Skylands Setting.
Me too. Honestly I'm not sure how much control the alchemist or I will have over the way the engine works. I imagine we'll find out once we get to Sharn and are able to talk to the engineer there. It may be that the DM has something already worked out, or it may be that the alchemist and I will have to put forth some kind of plan that we'll then have to figure out a way to execute. :)
Just as a friendly word of warning:
Be careful not to get too invested in the ship. It's awesome and useful and you can very easily sink way too much time and coin into it to the point where it becomes a weight around your necks if your not careful.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I envision the airship as a combination of the Lone Ranger's trusty steed Silver and Sherlock Holmes' comfortable apartment on Bleeker Street, which is to say both transportation and home base. Maybe with a little bit of Stardust thrown in for good measure.
I figure it will be a source of fun in the imagining of new ways to improve it, and a source of possible adventure hooks as we occasionally have to defend it from attackers.
Eventually a couple of our group will wind up having organizational ties, so we will likely have plenty of folks to help run it while we're otherwise occupied so that it doesn't just sit empty waiting to get stolen or anything...
Just a quick addition, can't remember if they've been mentioned yet, but sails might not be a bad idea to have on the ship anyway in terms of them being furled canvas.
We're in luck in this respect, because our ship already has sails. It was built to be both sea- and air-worthy, and we were able to make it seaworthy almost immediately, whereas making it air-worthy is taking more time. :)
Well the way Mana Condensers and Reactors work is the Mana Condenser collects raw magical energy and distills it into a Liquid which is then fed into a Mana Reactor which converts it into usable energy to power Magical Items.
My Ships will fly when that Energy is fed into special Crystals which. Crystals on the interior provide the lift and hovering while Outboard Crystals work with Rings to provide Thrust. The Rings move around the spherical crystals and vector the thrust.
EDIT: STARDUST! I love Captain Shakespeare!
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Just a general bit of advice.
If the campaign isn't all about having an airship (which I have no idea if it is or not) and you put almost everything you've got into it and have to be away from it for long periods adventuring you might find things difficult.
Also it could grow into a weak spot if your GM is the type to have your foes focus on that kind of thing. The game is about having fun but if you paint too big of a bulls-eye it can be hard to resist poking at as a GM.
If the campaign isn't all about having an airship (which I have no idea if it is or not) and you put almost everything you've got into it and have to be away from it for long periods adventuring you might find things difficult.
Well the only reason there are airships at all is because I specifically requested one pre-campaign, though I'm not sure I'd say the game is "all about" having an airship, by any means.
I do expect to fight aboard our airship now and again as our enemies track us down, or even as we happen across foes while traveling, but our DM isn't the kind to over-target the airship just to screw with us.
Also, regarding "putting almost everything we've got into it"...I suspect the treasure our group finds will adjust itself to accomodate the airship. which is to say we won't be horribly undergeared because we're trying to improve it. That would indeed make the airship more burden than fun, which is not the point at all.
Also it could grow into a weak spot if your GM is the type to have your foes focus on that kind of thing.
I definitely expect some enemy to try and take the airship down, either intentionally or just as an opportunity strike. But I don't see them making "destroy the airship" a main goal or anything. Especially not now that we'll be at least somewhat allied with House Lyrander, the Great House that controls airships.
The game is about having fun but if you paint too big of a bulls-eye it can be hard to resist poking at as a GM.
Luckily, my DM doesn't find any pleasure in screwing over the PCs, so he wouldn't intentionally allow us to spend RP time and resources building up the ship only to blow it up for his own amusement. Not that it couldn't get blown up, but that wouldn't be the reason behind it. :)
@Strayshift:
@LazarX: Wrong type of Airship... These are more like Final Fantasy VII, FFXII and FF XIII Airships. Or at least last I checked.
Why not do like what pirates done? Line the interior with the Steel Plates.
Sounds like the Downtime Systems from Ultimate Campaign might be a good system for this Campaign...
Gives a nice little boost to your treasury and allows you to build a nice crew.
