Vital Strike: Can I use this with Spring Attack, or on a charge?
No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.
Vital strike can only be used with a standard (attack) action. So you can take a move action and a single attack. Charge, spring attack, and 'pounce charge' are full round actions and don't qualify.
Can you use vital strike as part of a Pounce charge (as it allows you to use a full attack at the end and not just the regular a charge allows)?
No, it can't used with a charge. Pounce changes how your charge action works, it doesn't provide you with choices on how to use a Charge, else it would say so. Charge is either a full round action, or a standard action on rounds you can only use a standard action. Vital strike is a standard action. Characters are only allowed one standard action per turn, or one full round action per turn. There are very few ways, if any, to have more then one standard action per turn and most of those involve doing something that would normally be a standard as swift, like a quickened spell.
Charge
Vital Strike
Actions in the SRD
When you use Vital Strike, if you have a second attack due to high base attack, can you still use that attack afterwards or are you limited to one attack? As it doesn't seem to say
No. An attack action is one attack which takes a standard action to make one attack. To get more the one attack requires a full-attack action, which is a full round action. Therefore it can not be used with Vital Strike.
Vital Strike is an option when you can make only one attack and not make a charge.
It may be somewhat useful when you think your chance to hit the enemy is pretty low, and you want to get more damage from your first attack by giving up on even trying any second, third, or fourth.
Most people think it's almost useless.
So you cant even use it as part of a full attack if you dont have to move?
No.
You can ONLY ever use it if you can move to attack in a round?
What you do with the move equivalent action doesn't matter, but Vital Strike can only be used as a standard.
If thats the case it would seem to be nearly useless in a fight unless the enemy are on the run?
Wow that makes that feat all but worthless. Thanks for the warning
There are a FEW builds that it helps with, for classes that have something really cool they can do as move equivalent action, but for most PCs it isn't a good choice. A paladin or a cleric who has quick turning (which allows them to turn as a move equivalent) and will be spending a lot of time using that feat might get some mileage out of it. Also good if your runner just insists on game conditions that prevent full-attack actions most of the time.
Well one, Death or Glory is a worse feat then Vital Strike. Two, you can mix the two because that is part of the Death or Glory feat. Normally you can't mix feats that way.
Because they made an exception. That's why they specified that it was special :-)
I believe the idea behind vital strike was to allow a character to score some extra damage when they have to move. Cleave works kinda the same way.
They aren't garbage, just not as powerful as you first thought. There's a compilation of class guides here that may help.
EDIT: Sorry, replied to the wrong post. My bad.
What other generally garbage melee feats should I keep away from? What other traps to avoid Id guess I should say
The Critical Focus feats.
Definitely want to avoid Furious Finish, it maximizes all your damage dice, or at least all your Vital Strike/Improved Vital Strike/Greater Vital Strike dice (there is some controversy, at least over what the intent is). You would not want to combine Channel Smite with that, under any interpretation, same with any Sneak Attack builds. And avoid things like Enlarge Person/Lead Blades/Strongjaw that increase your damage die size by 1/1/2 tiers, same for Wildshape and such. Things like Fly-By Attack and Bestial Leaper Rage Power that let you use any Standard Action (like Vital Strike'd Attack Action) in the middle of a Move, denying your opponent a melee Full Attack against you, also suck. And don't bother boosting your Saves against things that might reduce you to a Standard Action, that's just a distraction vs. your theoretical Full Attack DPR.
Some people prefer the Stunning/etc Assault Feats, which ensures you trigger the Stun Save, at the cost of -5 to-hit, which if you have excess of to-hit (and you can not use Power Attack when doing this), can still be reliable to hit most opponents.
Stunning Crit/etc have the benefit that there's no attack penalty and they're always on, with a longer duration and a Save reduces it to Staggered rather than being Negated (like Assault), but they only work on Crits, so they're not as reliable in a sense. (albeit the attack penalty for the Assault Feats also doesn't help there)
19-20 doubled via Keen/etc is probably the minimum you want for the Crit Feats, Scimitar/Falchion is more like it.
And if Crit Feats are so effective, it's reasonable that Fortification would be very popular at high level/CR, right? (not to mention AC bonuses vs. Crit Confirm)
The Assault Feats also have the advantage of working vs. Fortification and flat-out Crit Immune targets like Elementals and Constructs.
I would say that is your judgement call.
My previous post was sarcastic, those are all things which strongly synergize with Vital Strike.
(well, the last one is just parodying the view that you never need to consider situations where you can't Full Attack... such as when you pass the Fort Save vs. a Stunning Critical)
So no Stunning Critical? I was thinking of going that way as Im running a Barbarian with a Keened Greatsword atm and Gore fiend so that when I DO get a crit; I can get rage back.
Well it takes two feats, so the cost is high. Then at most you'll get a chance to use it on 15 up so 30% of attacks (IF 15 always hit which it wont', and if you switch to a lower damage weapon) and say about 60% of those will confirm with the +4 you'll have so about 1 attack in 5.5 you'll get the chance to make them make a fort save. Between creatures who are immune to fort saves, passing it, miss chance, various spells that waste your attacks, aiming more of your attacks at creatures who are bad at fort saves, and what not say half the time they end up making the save. That comes to about 1 attack in 11. Might be a little higher or a little lower depending on your game and your build, but still not what you'd call a bargain.
Also it should be noted that Critical feats and Vital Strike literally encourage the exact opposite style of fighting. Vital Strike comes closest to working with someone who has a reason to make one melee attack each round and wants to get the most out of it. Critical feats work best with someone who makes as many attacks as possible, maybe a two weapon fighter/ranger/barbarian with combat reflexes.
Why avoid Enlarge person?
When Im raging, and my sorcerer friend casts his two favorite spells for use on me (Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person) Im looking at +17/+10 doing 3D6+22 per hit with my 17-20 x2 crit my AC is even 21 even while raging and enlarged (because wearing +2 hellknight armor plus beast totem - I'm the heavy armor version of a barbarian.
Wow. There is so much wrong there that I'm not a 100% sure were to start.
1) Hell Knights have that armor, and since they are all about law it doesn't make sense for a barbarian to have it, probably should just have normal full plate. It might be rules legal, but it shouldn't be. Also if a Hell Knight sees that it will likely be an unneeded hassle.
2) If your sorcerer has cast two buffs, and one isn't haste there is word for that. It is called a 'mistake.' It hits everyone and is worth way more then those bonuses. If you are high enough for vital strike he should be high enough to caste haste.
3) The rest doesn't really matter. The +4.5 average damage (3.5 from the 1 extra die, and 1 from the str bonus), and extra reach most times isn't worth -2 AC, - 1 reflex saves, -4 stealth, and having to take up four squares.
4)21 AC at 6th level isn't great for a melee character. Lots of the CR 7 creatures, large amounts of what you'll be fighting, have an attack bonus of +11 to +14, some as high as +17. So that means they'll only need to roll a 7 to a 10 to hit, sometimes a 4. That ain't Gangsta.
My previous post was sarcastic, those are all things which strongly synergize with Vital Strike.
Oddly, despite your intent, it mostly just read like sound reasons not to take Vital Strike so I assumed you knew what you where talking about on this subject and just skipped the ending.
Definitely want to avoid Furious Finish, it maximizes all your damage dice, or at least all your Vital Strike/Improved Vital Strike/Greater Vital Strike dice (there is some controversy, at least over what the intent is).
Well since you have to take a really horrible feat, yeah you should avoid it. Two feats together that still have a high opportunity cost then most other feats just doesn't seem worth it.
You would not want to combine Channel Smite with that, under any interpretation,
Channel Smite is no way improved by vital strike or vice versa, unless you have a build that focuses on getting over 50 points in one hit to force fort save vs. massive damage. So in general these two are unrelated.
same with any Sneak Attack builds.
Yes, this good to avoid since it costs you the chance for more sneak attack, which would lower your damage out put.
And avoid things like Enlarge Person/Lead Blades/Strongjaw that increase your damage die size by 1/1/2 tiers,
Again, good advice despite the fact you gave it sarcastically. These all make your attacks better, which means you want to get as many attacks out of them as you can before your buff wears off.
same for Wildshape and such.
I would advice avoiding it just to not have the weapon vs. natural weapon debate. Even if the runner allows it, and denying it wouldn't be crazy, I'm not aware of a animal off the top of my head that has one attack with such great damage die it is worth the feat. There may be one, but like I said earlier there are a few specific builds where this otherwise junk feat is a good addition.
Things like Fly-By Attack and Bestial Leaper Rage Power that let you use any Standard Action (like Vital Strike'd Attack Action) in the middle of a Move, denying your opponent a melee Full Attack against you, also suck.
Maybe if you have some build that other wise makes good use of these, but just because CAN put something in there doesn't mean you should. If I was that into fly attacks I'd suggest something to improve your ability to fly, but that is just me and my desire to not plummet to the hard, hard ground. I admit that after that unfortunate incident with the gargoyle dropping my gnome evoker I might be biased.
Now that I read it careful the rest is obvious sarcasm that doesn't need addressed. Some rare builds with a feat they don't know what else to do with might be better of taking Vital Strike/Vital Strike tree literally no one has argued against that point of view. Beyond that not sure what your point is.
The relative value of the vital strike chain is obviously tied closely to your weapon damage dice. For anything less than 6d8 base weapon dice, I would avoid it. However it really does start to shine when you get 8d8 or 12d8 weapon dice (32d8 or 48d9 with greater vital strike respectively). Furious finish turns these into one hit kill characters.
Prototype00
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Vital Strike is underrated IMO. I think that it is a great feat for 1.)Any Holy Vindicator build that cares about channeling (A.K.A. A lot of them) other than hospitaler paladin builds.
2.)Builds that don't have a big +x at the end of their weapons because they focus on the xdx, (Like a prototype00's Conquerer Ooze build).
3.)A fighter that has to move sometimes (Because they can afford the cost of a feat or three).
Vital Strike is underrated IMO. I think that it is a great feat for 1.)Any Holy Vindicator build that cares about channeling (A.K.A. A lot of them) other than hospitaler paladin builds.
2.)Builds that don't have a big +x at the end of their weapons because they focus on the xdx, (Like a prototype00's Conquerer Ooze build).
3.)A fighter that has to move sometimes (Because they can afford the cost of a feat or three).
There are definitely times when Vital Strike is a worthwhile investment. Yes, it's almost impossible to get Vital Strike damage up to the level of a full attack, Vital Strike being a standard action can be useful. At the least, it makes for a nice consolation prize whenever you have to move.
Like many others have said, Vital Strike is excellent against High Armored opponents, and opponents with significant DR (10+). With a Full Attack, that DR takes 40 damage, whereas a Vital Strike only suffers 10.
With a Full Attack, that high-armored opponent might avoid 2, maybe 3 attacks from a Full Attack, but a Vital Strike can easily bypass that amount (and make the damage dice of your other attacks feasible). The only issue with Vital Strike is that it is based off of Damage Dice.
I already made some personal changes to how I would run Vital Strike to be more in line with a Full Attack.
I mean, currently, Vital Strike does have use, but it is few and far between, and when you're fighting opponents where Vital Strike is the best course of offensive action, there is already a problem, either in too much mobility, or too tough of opponents.
Vital Strike is for Druids. No one else really benefits from it.
Vital Strike is for Druids. No one else really benefits from it.
What about 2 handed Firearm users that aren't musket masters?
Since they can only shoot once/rd anyway (except for that Dead Shot deed)The Double Hackbut deals 2d12 +Dex +deadly aim, with vital Strike it deals 4d12 + Dex+deadly aim.
Granted that depends on if +13 damage (average for 2d12) is worth more than another attack would have been.
Vital Strike is for Druids. No one else really benefits from it.What about 2 handed Firearm users that aren't musket masters?
Since they can only shoot once/rd anyway (except for that Dead Shot deed)The Double Hackbut deals 2d12 +Dex +deadly aim, with vital Strike it deals 4d12 + Dex+deadly aim.
Granted that depends on if +13 damage (average for 2d12) is worth more than another attack would have been.
Here's the description of the feat, and Here's the description of the deed.
**Edit** Re-read post. Doesn't change the factor that Dead Shot is a better option compared to Vital Strike, so Vital Strike becomes a waste of feats anyway.
We found it on an enemy... I cant then equip it? Our DM dsoesnt have an issue with it is why I ask.
It is his game, ask him, but in MOST games it is going to really upset some people/confuse people about who are you are and often not be something you'd do unless you want to make things odd. Barbarians can't be lawful and these guys are lawful to the extreme.
so how do I increase it?
Avoid Enlarge Person. You don't have to have a super high AC since you will mostly have a good HP from a barbarian, just want to try to get the enemy to miss some.
If there was a place you can make a character so I can show you what Im playing, then I could get advice :p My first barbarian and apparently Im doin it wrong :p
I wouldn't say wrong, just risky.
Also the file doesn't seem to want to download.
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Dead Shot, though, requires 7 levels in Gunslinger.
I am currently playing a PFS version of a Holy Gun - Paladin 4/Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger) 1, with Rapid Reload. Up until now, he generally fires at Touch AC, with +3 to damage on most shots (costs a grit). As soon as I hit level 6, he is grabbing Vital Strike, and on most rounds, with exactly the same expenditure of actions and resources (i.e. standard to shoot, move to reload), his normal shots will do 2d12 +3. Sounds like a bargain for me, on a character who will never be able to make iterative shots.
Dead Shot, though, requires 7 levels in Gunslinger.
I am currently playing a PFS version of a Holy Gun - Paladin 4/Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger) 1, with Rapid Reload. Up until now, he generally fires at Touch AC, with +3 to damage on most shots (costs a grit). As soon as I hit level 6, he is grabbing Vital Strike, and on most rounds, with exactly the same expenditure of actions and resources (i.e. standard to shoot, move to reload), his normal shots will do 2d12 +3. Sounds like a bargain for me, on a character who will never be able to make iterative shots.
But Paper cartridges + rapid reload unless using a 2 handed weapon are free action to reload.
So Vital Strike may not be better for you.
Which weapon do you use?
My 6th Level fighter archer uses it with Bullseye Shot...if he doesn't move he gets +4 on his next shot...since only shooting one arrow Vital Strike applies...with a 17 dex at 6th level his attack is at..assuming Point Blank Shot, Deadly Aim and Vital Strike and his +1, +2 Str Bow
+15 To hit and 2d8+11 Damage
+17 To hit and 2d8+7 Damage w/o Deadly Aim
He can punch thru DR pretty easily and hits most of the time...works just not the cloud of arrows type of archer.
Vital Strike is great for a mobile character or if you need to punch thru DR...its just another build choice like TWF or tripping
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Dead Shot, though, requires 7 levels in Gunslinger.
I am currently playing a PFS version of a Holy Gun - Paladin 4/Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger) 1, with Rapid Reload. Up until now, he generally fires at Touch AC, with +3 to damage on most shots (costs a grit). As soon as I hit level 6, he is grabbing Vital Strike, and on most rounds, with exactly the same expenditure of actions and resources (i.e. standard to shoot, move to reload), his normal shots will do 2d12 +3. Sounds like a bargain for me, on a character who will never be able to make iterative shots.
But Paper cartridges + rapid reload unless using a 2 handed weapon are free action to reload.
So Vital Strike may not be better for you.
Which weapon do you use?
Could have sworn I'd mentioned in the post, but I guess I thought the d12 would give it away - a musket. With Rapid Reload and paper cartridges, it's still a move to reload, so will never get iterative attacks. Vital Strike is awesome for this character.
Even without the musket, unless you are using multiple advanced firearms, or playing tricks with weapon cords, Vital Strike is still a good option until at least level 7 for even a full gunslinger. The extra flexibility of being able to move and still get a high-damage shot cannot be underestimated.
Fighter Retraining is great for taking Feats that may be good for a certain level tier but you eventually might prefer other things.
There's also the War Domain that gives you a Feat on demand (that you qualify for), as well as Paragon Surge to some extent.
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more like +1att/+2dmg since wpn focus is the pre-req for wpn spec,
and you still have 1 more bonus feat left, and can tumble in non-mithril medium armor.
attack bonuses actually strongly help your average damage, often more than the equivalent bonus to damage.
if you go to 5th level, you get weapon training 1 for a further +1att/+1dmg (in the entire weapon group) as well as +1 vs disarm/sunder.
fighter isn't really the strongest class, but it's simple to play, and some archetypes may be more appealing, especially for dips,
for example, weapon master get weapon training at level 3 (which is the pre-req to benefit from dueling gloves).
if you only look at only core rules, fighters outdamage barbarians in full attacks, and that's often true even with non-core.
but just play the game and have fun, you don't have to get it perfect the first time, there's no 'winning' this game.
I'm not sold on Gore Fiend, but honestly it just doesn't matter that much, you can have fun regardless.
(if you do dip in Fighter you're gaining 3 or 4 less skill ranks than Barb, but are also gaining Heavy Armor Proficiency,
which is compatable with your Barbarian Fast Movement if you get Mithril Heavy Armor.
any Barb can wear that and use Fast Movement but they suffer penalties to attack and physical skill checks which make it unrealistic)
Also the file doesn't seem to want to download.
does that work?
Im short one feat as I guess I hadnt picked it yet, I went with Raging Vitality
Yes. Also, this sheet shows the PC as already having Gore Fiend, is that right? Also, you know you loose your shield bonus if you attack with a two handed weapon while wearing a buckler and that you have a negative one that doesn't seem to be in the math on your two handed weapons when you attack wearing a buckler? And it seems that your character is painfully skinny for someone of his huge height.
I havent decided if Im going fighter or not yet, I HAD been thinking of doing it to get a few more feats and weapon specialization (but then noticed it adds a whole like +2 to damage - unless I'm wrong on that) for an investment of four levels
The plus two to damage is correct, but those levels would probably be better spent getting you up to barbarian 11 so you can get Greater Rage (+1 to hit, +1 to damage, more rounds of rage, more skills, etc) and like Quandry said pluses to hit are often more important the pluses to damage. Your big problem as a barbarian fighter combo won't be low damage, so I'd suggest worrying about covering up whatever issues you are having. Thos will vary by game. Depending on the type of GM you have, ask them.
I dont know if this is a left over line of thinking from D&D or it was in Pathfinder of not but I swear I remember hearing that Fighters were the more tactical type of fighters as barbarians are the more wild...
That is the most common flavor.
Its kind of looking right now as Im on the cusp of levelling that I have a choice between another level of barbarian (getting damage resist 1/, some more rage rounds, raging vitality, and some skill points) or a level of fighter (getting Gore fiend - so I have a way to recharge rage - Raging Vitality and some skill points)
It really depends on what the problems you having with the character are. If you keep running out of rage and getting knocked out, then yeah those might be good ideas. Although I'd go for Extra Rage before on that depended on getting critted, but that is just em. If you miss a lot, take weapon focus. If you have two problems that can be solved by two feats go with fighter. If you fail a lot of will saves, take Iron Will. What is and isn't a good idea varies by game.
I'm not sold on Gore Fiend, but honestly it just doesn't matter that much, you can have fun regardless.
It could be good as part of a group of feats. With Improved Critical and Ferocious Tenacity it might be good.
(if you do dip in Fighter you're gaining 3 or 4 less skill ranks than Barb, but are also gaining Heavy Armor Proficiency,
which is compatable with your Barbarian Fast Movement if you get Mithril Heavy Armor.
any Barb can wear that and use Fast Movement but they suffer penalties to attack and physical skill checks which make it unrealistic)
His barbarian archetype already has heavy armor proficiency.
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Vital Strike is for Druids. No one else really benefits from it.What about 2 handed Firearm users that aren't musket masters?
Since they can only shoot once/rd anyway (except for that Dead Shot deed)The Double Hackbut deals 2d12 +Dex +deadly aim, with vital Strike it deals 4d12 + Dex+deadly aim.
Granted that depends on if +13 damage (average for 2d12) is worth more than another attack would have been.Here's the description of the feat, and Here's the description of the deed.
**Edit** Re-read post. Doesn't change the factor that Dead Shot is a better option compared to Vital Strike, so Vital Strike becomes a waste of feats anyway.
Dead Shot requires a point of grit, generally it will be better than vital strike, but at least you can do vital strike all day.
Anyway I plan on getting Vital Strike at 7th level with my gunslinger for two reasons, move and shoot and "I ready an action for when that guy casts a spell"
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Why avoid Enlarge person?
When Im raging, and my sorcerer friend casts his two favorite spells for use on me (Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person) Im looking at +17/+10 doing 3D6+22 per hit with my 17-20 x2 crit my AC is even 21 even while raging and enlarged (because wearing +2 hellknight armor plus beast totem - I'm the heavy armor version of a barbarian.
(commenting on Enlarge Person)
3) The rest doesn't really matter. The +4.5 average damage (3.5 from the 1 extra die, and 1 from the str bonus), and extra reach most times isn't worth -2 AC, - 1 reflex saves, -4 stealth, and having to take up four squares.
Whether or not Enlarge Person is worthwhile depends heavily on build and situation. For example, when a martial cleric using a reach weapon (my current build, called a Reach Cleric) faces multiple Large foes, then Enlarge Person is the single most important buff available. Why? Enlarge Person extends reach to 20', which allows an Attack of Opportunity against each (with Combat Reflexes) Large foe as it approaches. That's 2 or 3 additional attacks, each for 30-40 damage, that normal-size PCs miss out on. The extra 4.5/5.5 damage per hit is just gravy.
Of course, this only applies when
1. Facing Large melee foes
2. Who have not yet closed to melee range
This situation is not uncommon! In this situation, with the right build, Enlarge Person is key to getting an impressive damage-nova. In this fairly common situation Enlarge Person can easily yield an extra 100+ HP damage inflicted in a fight.
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Here are some other oft overlooked benefits of combining Enlarge Person with a reach weapon:
1. It becomes possible to, on your turn, attack a foe 20' away. The foe is too far away to 5' step in, so they must give up an AoO if they wish to attack you. You no longer have to choose between either attacking on your turn, or (hopefully) getting an AoO on their turn. You can reliably get both.
2. You can full attack a foe 20' away, and the foe is too far away to full attack you in return.
Back on the thread topic, Vital Strike still sucks. It might be worthwhile if it applied to AoOs and full attacks, which it does not.
That is one of those great theory builds that dies on the vine in games. Yeah you can attack 20 feet away, but you have 10 feet near you that you can't attack. Plus, the 100+HP can mostly be achieved without the enlarge. But yeah, Vital Strike does suck.
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My level 14 Barbarian had (I think) 14 AC while raging. He wore Mithril Breastplate, and was an invulnerable rager (DR 7/-). He also had 230+ HP, and 35 STR while raging (Full ORC)...
Vital strike would have been good AGAINST him, since he was a Come and Get Me Barbarian. Otherwise, each attack against him could cost the enemy 1d12+38 HP from his greataxe (x3 if he crit).
The usefulness of Vital strike depends on what you can do with your move action. For those times you will not be able to Full attack, you could just standard attack for one big slice o' damage. If you can pounce, then those situations would come up less.
My advice is to keep going Barbarian, and do what they do best: SMASH.
Also, nothing RAW says a barbarian cannot be a great tactician. The Barbarian just knows how to wield his anger, and destroy his foes with great force.
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That is one of those great theory builds that dies on the vine in games. Yeah you can attack 20 feet away, but you have 10 feet near you that you can't attack.
It might not work well for you, but it has worked very well for me. It does require moderately competent and disciplined allies, which rules this tactic out for many groups. I've used this approach, as appropriate, in dozens of sessions, with excellent results. I've had zero trouble with things in the inside ring of the doughnut. Anything that moves there, to attack the cleric in the center of the team, gets massacred by flanking full attacks from the rest of the party.
If something inside your reach doughnut is ever a problem, it's easy to drop the reach weapon (free action), draw a different weapon (move action or less), and bash away. While this is a bother, the extra attack(s) you got were worth it.
Plus, the 100+HP can mostly be achieved without the enlarge
Huh? How? The whole idea here is to improve your action economy by encouraging foes to give you free AoOs. Some foes take the bait, which is a win. Some don't, which is also generally a win. Please explain how it is possible for a normal or small size PC to get iterative AoOs versus incoming large melee foes. Hint: you can't, without considerable cheese.
Large creatures usually have a 10' reach. Thus, a normal sized PC can't get AoOs on them, even with a reach weapon. If a PC is also Large then that PC can play the reach game with a large foe, and will get AoOs. That number, 100+ extra damage, comes from three iterative AoOs (for ~35 HP each) versus three different incoming Large, easy-to-hit foes (e.g. ogres). This scenario is not uncommon.
I am putting parts of this together that weren't because they address 1 issue, some twice because they express two thoughts.
It might not work well for you, but it has worked very well for me. It does require moderately competent and disciplined allies, which rules this tactic out for many groups. I've used this approach, as appropriate, in dozens of sessions, with excellent results.
That number, 100+ extra damage, comes from three iterative AoOs (for ~35 HP each) versus three different incoming Large, easy-to-hit foes (e.g. ogres). This scenario is not uncommon.
That sounds VERY situational.
I've had zero trouble with things in the inside ring of the doughnut. Anything that moves there, to attack the cleric in the center of the team, gets massacred by flanking full attacks from the rest of the party.
That just sounds silly; If that was just hyperbole fine, but if you meant that literally it seems unlikely in the extreme. Any tactic with zero problems is most likely just something uncommon about your group's game. Even Power Attack with Furious Focus makes you miss more on iterative attacks.
If something inside your reach doughnut is ever a problem, it's easy to drop the reach weapon (free action), draw a different weapon (move action or less), and bash away. While this is a bother, the extra attack(s) you got were worth it.
Huh? How? The whole idea here is to improve your action economy...
Tactics that require a standard by someone else, and often eat up a move by you don't sounds like they are doing a whole lot to increase the action economy of the group as a whole. I'll admit that it is sometimes possible, but like I said above it seems very situational.
Huh? How? The whole idea here is to improve your action economy by encouraging foes to give you free AoOs. Some foes take the bait, which is a win. Some don't, which is also generally a win.
Please explain how it is possible for a normal or small size PC to get iterative AoOs versus incoming large melee foes. Hint: you can't, without considerable cheese.
1) I'd advice against calling anyone out on 'cheese' both in general and more specifically with a suggested 'enlarge person reach weapon' build. What may sound like a perfectly reasonable build to you, both in general and the specific, might sound very cheesy to others.
2) You mean 'medium' not 'normal'.
3) Since I never made any claims about AoO I don't feel the need to explain things I didn't say. (see the next two quotes)
In this fairly common situation Enlarge Person can easily yield an extra 100+ HP damage inflicted in a fight.
That is one of those great theory builds that dies on the vine in games. Yeah you can attack 20 feet away, but you have 10 feet near you that you can't attack. Plus, the 100+HP can mostly be achieved without the enlarge...
Again it isn't so much that this build doesn't do what you say it does, so much as it is hugely resource intensive. Just look at the cost list.
1st level Spell Slot
Standard Action to cast the 1st level spell
Combat Reflexes Feat
Reach Weapon (which has to be enchanted/spelled up)
Non Reach Weapon (which has to be enchanted/spelled up)
18 Dexterity (for the 3 AoO, it will drop down to 16 when Enlarged)
Occasionally a move action to draw the 2nd weapon or Quick Draw Feat
-2 AC penalty (-1 for size, -1 for the dexterity penalty)
You'd be way better off with something as simple as (either from the spell or a magic item). The extra attacks will catch up on the damage, and instead of lowering your AC it ups it by one and gives plus one to hit. Plus you should be able to have your Str (and maybe other stats) be higher since you aren't trying to get 3 AoO a round. I'd have to see stats to be more exact in comparrision, but you get the idea.