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Ah, ok... I wonder where they got that number then?Prefacing this by saying I haven't look at it to check your math, but could the -1 dmg to the tail slap be because of the -4 Young penalty to Str?No, since it's a secondary natural attack which gets half Strength bonus to damage. It should go from 1d4+1 (Str 17) to 1d3 (Str 13).
May be a secondary , but don't dragons (including drakes) get Str and a half on tail attacks ?
I got no frills from "modest craft" and "crew of 5"
It might have a nice captains quarters and a place for the crew to bunk, but as the map didn't have a cargo hatch, I didn't think a horse could fit in it, just asking what other GMs have encountered.Having a horse below decks means a boom to lift the horse out if they want to take it ashore, cavalier w/ class feature or not. The whole module is large mount unfriendly: ships, docks, inns, ladders.
I only see a boom and lift being used on either large ships to lower the mounts into a deep hold, or if there isn't a dock for the mounts to get off on.
I would assume that a ramp would allow the mounts to get into the lower level of the boat - maybe not fast or elegant, but doable.
I agree that this scenario is not mount friendly, but not every scenario will be mount friendly.
05-02 Wardstone Patrol is mount friendly, while 05-03 Hellknight Feast is not.
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I ran this one last Tuesday. I had some issues with it.
The lack of stat blocks in the scenario was a pain in the butt that was compounded by the frequent use of templates. It wasn't an insurmountablt obstacle but it was a pain in the butt and slowed things down.
It looks like there was an effort made to build in some sort of player choice but it was nonsensical and pretty much meaningless. For some reason the captain asks the group to decide which way the ship will go despite their likely complete lack of sailing knowledge. You can go to Xer or go up the river but you fight either way. Both encounters are written to make a fight inevitable even resorting to an NPC sneezing at an inopportune time to force the issue. The two fights are substantially identical. There's another where the river forks but it doesn't matter which way they go. They get the river drake fight either way.
The inn maps probably work fine if you have the right pre-made map but not so well if you don't. The PCs start above ground, go underground and then go back above ground. That means having both maps already drawn out or drawing one, erasing it, drawing the other, erasing it and then drawing the first again. Since both maps are large and the above ground map is both large and complicated, this makes for a time consuming hassle. I moved the last encounter underground to avoid the delay of having to draw the complex above ground map again. This had the side-effect of making the last fight considerably more challenging.
The faction stuff is not bad but doesn't matter if there isn't anyone from those factions along. I had one Grand Lodge PC and none from the other two so most of that stuff ended up not mattering. I skipped the vying scene entirely because it plays to Qadirian PCs and there weren't any.
So far, I'm not a fan of the new scenario format. They are more complicated to run and more of a hassle. They take longer. They don't seem to deliver anything to make up for the extra hassle and time. I like the idea of giving players options but it doesn't seem to amount to much in practice. You can eiher fight the crossbow thugs and the wolf or the crossbow thugs and the monkey.
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As a GM I love not having to distribute faction missions. As a player, I'm a little ambivalent about not knowing what I need to do. On one hand I enjoy the fact that I no longer have to fear my prestige hinging on a single roll. On the other hand it hurt to make an in character choice and find out I chose wrong. I'm also a little perturbed to see that "faction mission hunting" has not stopped with the new change. Our Qadira party members today were jumping the gun at every opportunity to try and accomplish their faction goal. Hopefully with time this will die down some and players will learn to let the opportunities come to them first.
As for the scenario itself, I feel the rails were showing much more than usual. I echo the earlier concerns about box text overriding character actions (such as the aforementioned sneeze as well as the illusion of choice given at the river fork). The encounters offered much in the way of roleplay and told a story well despite character actions having no actual effect.
The river drake was a rough encounter mostly due to the caustic mucus having an indefinite duration, leaving the paladin making reflex save after save to get free while being whittled down on HP even after the drake was dead.
The final battle was telegraphed, but not bad thanks to the earlier bluff going through. The part that tripped the party came from leaving the false priest alive out of mercy, and my character not realizing a low profile was preferred to announcing their affiliation. (Valsin will have words for him when he gets back I'm sure.)
Looking forward to getting a chance to run it myself and see how other groups fare.
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My group had a hard time with the drake because of how I had it fight. I had it use the thrown snake as a distraction and then had it pounce on a distracted PC near the railing and yank him off the ship and underwater. Fighting undewater vs an aquatic opponent is harsh. Sword? -2 to attack and half damage. People attacking from the boat? Improved cover +8 ac. It's harsh if they use all their advantages.
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I like that the forced seeming, odd missions that arose from every faction having a mission in every scenario (sleight of hand check to steal a tea set anyone?) are gone but it does mean that the faction stuff won't matter if you don't have PCs from certain factions at that table. It's a tradeoff. There won't be any nonsense like the PCs needing to remember to tell the giant* they are FROM ANDORAN DAMMIT! before killing it (wtf is the point of that?) in any case so that's good.
*in giant no less.
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May be a secondary , but don't dragons (including drakes) get Str and a half on tail attacks ?Ah, ok... I wonder where they got that number then?Prefacing this by saying I haven't look at it to check your math, but could the -1 dmg to the tail slap be because of the -4 Young penalty to Str?No, since it's a secondary natural attack which gets half Strength bonus to damage. It should go from 1d4+1 (Str 17) to 1d3 (Str 13).
Dragons do... but judging by the various drake stat blocks the dragon rules are for dragons specifically. The Desert and Rift drakes have special attacks that specifically call out a 1-1/2 Strength bonus to bite attacks and their tail slaps only have half Strength bonus.
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I'm not happy with waiting for the faction mission to come to you.
the way Glass is written, if the characters don't ask one NPC their opinion or interact directly with him, he never shares his information. If a GM skims, and misses that interaction, their whole faction mission can fail.
I miss handing out missions, and as a player, looking for clues as to when my mission would be relevant. But a lot of the time, if a GM skimmed there too, it wasn't always obvious.
the NPC merchants on the ship are supposed to make an argument for why the players should choose them. but i found myself wondering: why are the players making this choice, to recommend this merchant or not? The merchant's only arguments weren't even summarized well. there's not enough box text, and while it states the players can ask questions, all the NPC robots chat options are stored in the box text, so they can only reiterate fast/cheap, expensive/sturdy as options, and give two free potions as "shows of good faith".
overall not a great adventure. always the illusion of choice, but no actual difference in outcome no matter how they players act.
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The faction letters give players hints on when to be more attentive in certain scenarios. Not every scenario will have something special for every faction. I think it is better, alot of the factions missions were bland and pointless in early seasons. The new format gives them something special for helping the faction outside of Prestige, and lets certain factions shine at different points.
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always the illusion of choice, but no actual difference in outcome no matter how they players act.
a) Choice does not always guarantee a changed outcome. What happens because of random events or through another's actions is not what is important, but rather how you yourself handle it.
b) Perhaps I'm being a little too optimistic here, but just because there was no evident difference in outcome in this scenario does not mean that there will not be an impact of what lies ahead outside the realm of the scenario. After all, GM's are expected to list who you allied with during the scenario. Who knows what bearing that will have down the line?
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I'm not happy with waiting for the faction mission to come to you.
the way Glass is written, if the characters don't ask one NPC their opinion or interact directly with him, he never shares his information. If a GM skims, and misses that interaction, their whole faction mission can fail.I miss handing out missions, and as a player, looking for clues as to when my mission would be relevant. But a lot of the time, if a GM skimmed there too, it wasn't always obvious.
Personally, I'm happy with the faction boon idea. Faction missions usually distracted from the main mission too much. I understand that the factions had different priorities, but they were still part of the Pathfinder Society. Making people go of on tangents seemed to counter some of the original mission.
They also gave away things that were supposed to be surprises and that irked me to no end. Half the time there was no way that the factions should know something was in this 1000 year old untouched dungeon or that some specific person was behind the secret plot.
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I much prefer the new faction boons compared to the old faction missions for prestige. In 5-01 I think the Osirion booon was better implemented... Qadira and Grand Lodge just kind of get their boons as the group goes through the scenario. Nothing much they can do to affect it. But the Osirion boon rewards PCs who actually pay attention to some of the back story with the Jeweled Sages and interact with the Osirian dwarves.
I hope I get to run this with some Osirion faction PCs at some point!
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always the illusion of choice, but no actual difference in outcome no matter how they players act.a) Choice does not always guarantee a changed outcome. What happens because of random events or through another's actions is not what is important, but rather how you yourself handle it.
b) Perhaps I'm being a little too optimistic here, but just because there was no evident difference in outcome in this scenario does not mean that there will not be an impact of what lies ahead outside the realm of the scenario. After all, GM's are expected to list who you allied with during the scenario. Who knows what bearing that will have down the line?
no, but there is such a thing as a silly choice.
i liked the mission in choosing the merchant. i just felt that the merchants were too static and flat. The players couldn't really question them about what difference choosing one or the other would make. or why this group of pathfinders has to make the choice, and has to make the choice as a group. Its not like its a choice between potion of bear's endurance or healing potion, they get both. they're the merchant's bribes!
if you look at the situation as a whole, its silly and not explained well. like the contrived Auction Dinner in Legacy of Fire.
Is it also going to become common now for players to cherry pick? "Does this mission have a boon for X faction? no? ok, i'll play Bob then, he's a member of Y faction ".
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Is it also going to become common now for players to cherry pick? "Does this mission have a boon for X faction? no? ok, i'll play Bob then, he's a member of Y faction ".
I think so and that actually makes sense that Pathfinders with a certain bent, i.e. faction, would prefer missions that would help out their faction over ones that wouldn't.
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I gave the benefit of the doubt, but after reading a little into it, I do not like the new format/style of faction missions. Not getting a somewhat secret handout, not being included in the few that do, and seeing that I basically now only want to play a few of the scenarios doesn't look too great in my opinion. Once I'm done with running this one, I'll add some more.
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I am already seeing players politicing about what tables they play at and what scenarios they play because of the new faction boons and I have only see two season 5 scenarios run. It's like a mild version of watching all the people try to finagle their Shadow Lodge or Lantern Lodge characters spots in Rivalry's End or Way of the Kirin as the dealine loomed.
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So, I've just read and begun The Glass River Rescue, and it really seems like the intent was to amplify the issues of the older Faction Missions occasionally making it very difficult or impossible for another Faction Mission to succeed. As I have not finished running it yet, is that correct?
Secondly, what happens if there is not a majority of the party that decides one way or the other on a few of the choices, (as in an even spread between the options)? So far it all kind of looks like a big mess waiting to happen.
I ran Glass River Rescue and Wardstone Patrol at GenCon. Before running them, I explained the changes to faction missions and I passed out to the players the letters from the faction leaders (copy and past from the forum entries).
After the game, I explained to the players what the faction missions had been, how they linked to the letters and why some got it and some didn't. All the players who didn't get their faction boon agreed that they had missed their opportunity to get it due to their own actions (like not following up on a smuggling statement in Wardstone by the two Scarzni Faction members).
In Glass River Rescue, for the Osirion Faction, they have an easy opportunity to obtain the information if they are paying attention. Once the dwarves are rescued, the GM just has to make sure to use the text, where it states "Pechas Domri, a Pahmet dwarf, thanks the PCs for their timely intervention and wishes them the blessings of the Diamond Sage." From there, if they ask about the Diamond Sage, they get their faction boon.
What is the issue that you are seeing that causes you to believe that it will be difficult or impossible for another faction mission to succeed?
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Nevermind. After rereading it, I was confusing the Qadiran Faction choices and thinking that they where designed to be between the different Factions rewarded in the scenario rather than just for Qadira. I can still see the problem to a lesser extent, where the non-Qadiran majority in a party might unknowingly take the "choice", but it doesn't remove the Boon like I had thought unless there is not a specific person favored (which seems extremely odd for Qadira who one would think would be the best possible result).
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In Glass River Rescue, for the Osirion Faction, they have an easy opportunity to obtain the information if they are paying attention. Once the dwarves are rescued, the GM just has to make sure to use the text, where it states "Pechas Domri, a Pahmet dwarf, thanks the PCs for their timely intervention and wishes them the blessings of the Diamond Sage." From there, if they ask about the Diamond Sage, they get their faction boon.
Actually, it is Amauhak that the Osirions get the information from.
Actually, it is Amauhak that the Osirions get the information from.In Glass River Rescue, for the Osirion Faction, they have an easy opportunity to obtain the information if they are paying attention. Once the dwarves are rescued, the GM just has to make sure to use the text, where it states "Pechas Domri, a Pahmet dwarf, thanks the PCs for their timely intervention and wishes them the blessings of the Diamond Sage." From there, if they ask about the Diamond Sage, they get their faction boon.
True, but the rescued dwarf does mention the Diamond Sage and then sends them to talk Amauhak, one of the Pahmet dwarves.
There are two opportunities for the players to hear a reference to the Diamond Sage, thus allowing them to get the boon.
In the group that I ran for at GenCon, they didn't seek Amauhak's advise on the ruse, but once they rescued Pechas, his words triggered them going to Amauhak and getting the information.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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I have 2 questions.
1. what is a Kalistocrat?
2. Once the encounter A triggers (either at docks of Xer or further upriver) is it assumed that the rest of the adventure takes place over 1 day? It never specifies how much time between encounter A and encounter B, and only says they arrive at the Inn at dusk. Unsure whether its the same day.
It would make a big difference as to how much of daily resources the PCs have left.
Or is this a situation where a GM can make it all one day to challenge an experienced group, or take place over a few days for a newbie group?
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Wiki entry here.
TOZ, you're linking to the old, defunct wiki (abandoned in 2010), the active wiki has more information: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Prophecies_of_Kalistrade
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Any suggestions on how to run the low tier combat? It's so basic...not to mention you're basically running the same thugs over and over again. The drake battle was kinda fun with the snake. I'm running this again in a couple weeks at the low tier and would like it to at least feel challenging.
Low tier
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I played this on Saturday and ran it on Sunday (yesterday).
Quite enjoyable
1) I roleplayed the Sisters as kindly but also a bit.. untrustworthy. THe pcs had a bit of a freakout when Rosh left on his horse ( I had someone already hiding in the stables .. so he saw him leave).
What I did do at the start of the game was ask if everyone knew their faction / and goals. Few people did, and I personally think its often a good indicator to see if people do in fact have a copy of the guide to organised play at the table. I quoted the page number and suggested people take a look.
I had 2 pretty new players on the table so I did cut some people some slack but made it clear that in times past faction missions were somewhat easier to accomplish, in season 5 responsibility had very much swung to the players on the table to have a good understanding on their faction (which I love btw, I think it truly matters when some players just pick a faction because they like a prestige vanity than only faction x get)
Due to some average perception rolls, the box of hair wasnt found and due to conflicting stories (and bluff checks), particular cover stories were not believed by the 3 ladies. Sneaking downstairs (somewhat well I might add) they found the bathtub trapdoor and waking the ladies (who feigned sleep to avoid pointy weapons) they went down , uncovered the lemures and rescued the Dwarves. Leaving via the stables they found Holy A giving the women a lecture who then turned of them. They left her alive as well as a few guards.
In the end they missed the secondary success point, but it was a pretty entertaining game.
I made a point to mention the Yellow Scarf on one of the women and they never found the Symbol of Torag.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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When I played through at gencon I was using my newly Osirioni character. Likely due to her transfer from shadow lodge, I didn't get a yearly faction goal letter for her, so I had no idea what I was looking for. But, she found the osirion guy on the boat and tried to chat him up to find out more about her new faction. Judge had me roll diplomacy (failed miserably due to her terrible social skills) for this unknown faction mission.
Judge missed the line from the rescued dwarf, but it was also monday of the con so I understand when things get missed. So, no boon for me.
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No, Special Attacks are not advanced by the Giant template, as they are a separate category from Attacks.
Did you have a source for this? I couldn't find anything specific when I was applying the templates, so I just followed the 3.5 rules figuring a smaller/bigger drake could spit less/more acid.
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Rebuild Rules: Size increase by one category; AC increase natural armor by +3; Attacks increase dice rolled by 1 step; Ability Scores +4 size bonus to Str and Con, –2 Dex.
Rebuild Rules: Senses gains darkvision 60 ft.; Defensive Abilities gains DR and energy resistance as noted on the table; SR gains SR equal to new CR +5; Special Attacks smite chaos 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against chaotic foes; smite persists until target is dead or the resolute creature rests)
Note that Attacks and Special Attacks are two different categories, and the Giant template has no entry for Special Attacks.
Also, they are listed separately on your own link.
Attack and Full Attack
Most templates do not change a creature’s attack bonus or modes of attack, even when the creature’s type changes (the creature’s base attack bonus is the same as a creature of the original type). Of course, any change in ability scores may affect attack bonuses. If Strength or Dexterity changes, use the new modifier to determine attack bonuses. A change in a monster’s size also changes its attack bonus; see Table: Changes to Statistics by Size....
Special Attacks
A template may add or remove special attacks. The template description gives the details of any special attacks a template provides, including how to determine saving throw DCs, if applicable.
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Any suggestions on how to run the low tier combat? It's so basic...not to mention you're basically running the same thugs over and over again. The drake battle was kinda fun with the snake. I'm running this again in a couple weeks at the low tier and would like it to at least feel challenging.Low tier ** spoiler omitted **
My opinion is, that this is a perfect starter tier 1-2 scenario. The main theme of this scenario shouldn't be challenging combats. It should be more about teaching newer (and more experienced) players how to be creative and how to problem solve without the end of a sword being the only way to do so.
Developer
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I reduced the Subtier 1–2 drake's breath weapon damage by a size category not as much because the young simple template reduces the damage dice of special attacks; I did it because the encounter really called for lower damage to ensure that one big enemy's special attack wouldn't instantly end the typical PC.
I remember running Tide of Twilight in Subtier 1–2, wherein the optional encounter's twigjack had a lower save DC, yes, but it's core damage was still frightful: 4d6 if I recall correctly. My understanding is that following consumer feedback, Mark later issued a developer statement that the damage should be lower. 4–24 damage is enough to kill a healthy number of PCs. Subtier 1–2 in anything probably shouldn't have anything that can knock out a typical PC in one non-critical hit rolling average damage.
Especially since this was a Gen Con release that would likely be played by plenty of beginners, I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't end too suddenly and tragically for a fresh 1st-level PC.
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I reduced the Subtier 1–2 drake's breath weapon damage by a size category not as much because the young simple template reduces the damage dice of special attacks; I did it because the encounter really called for lower damage to ensure that one big enemy's special attack wouldn't instantly end the typical PC.
Ah ok, that makes sense. I forgot that it was called out specifically for the young drake. Thanks for the reply - much appreciated!
... Still 'one bad roll = failure' has always been my pet peeve about PFS. :)
But it really wasn't the fault of 1 roll. That roll only lost you one of the potential conditions.
There are many other things you could have done. Found the hidden scry materials. Carry dirt cheap bags of flower for finding invisibles. Closed and barred the gates while searching for the invisible chick. Grease spell to try and cover teh invisible chick. Alchemist fire and oil to try and light invisible chick on fire.Link arms and rush the gate. Grapple any invisible you find. Try for good perception rolls. Track footprints. Etc...
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We also lost out on the second point. The frustrating thing was that many of us had rerolls we would have gladly used. However, it wasn't until the scenario ended that we were told which failed skill checks counted for the point.
GM's may want to telegraph the important skill checks a bit if we are going to be going with secret victory conditions.
I'm not sure I agree with that.
There were plenty of clues (including Amahauk telling the PCs to try to refrain from violence on Razmiri soil) that says they should succeed at the infiltration. Part of that was bluffing the old ladies.