I'll say one last thing on the critical hit bit and then leave it alone for now.
It makes it hard for someone like me who is very story focused to play this class. I'm GM'ing Reign of Winter right now and one of my players is a witch. I told him that he's going to have a lot of save or die and some save or suck stuff that is going to be so harsh they might as well have died. I then told him to be careful how he uses them because killing a big bad with one spell on the first round of combat is kind of unsatisfactory for the party. It makes the fight lack a certain epic quality. So he'll use some other stuff and work his way up to the killer spells. Allow the fight to develop.
I can do that same thing with maneuvers but I can't with crits. It makes it hard to make a story out of a fight.
Hopefully that all makes sense. I'm on mobile and I haven't even finished my morning coffee.
Well, it just seems that it's a play style difference vs rules then. I had a DM of mine once limit me when I was playing in his game once similarly, basically saying, "Hey, I know you're good. I know your toon will be powerful. Stahp." And that's fine, but that's limits that are imposed on a game by game basis. Not all DM's feel that way. I've had and let PC's take down a big bad in a single spell (I wasn't thrilled but the players were cheering and that made me happy for them). Escalation of power is important, but in this sense I think it makes sense to not limit the rules to a single play style. Tell me if I'm way off base here, please.
What if Deadly Strike added a bit to base damage for weapons with a multiplier higher than 2? This could incentivize a broader range of weapons used.
This intrigues me. Give me an example? :)
-Chris
What if Deadly Strike added a bit to base damage for weapons with a multiplier higher than 2? This could incentivize a broader range of weapons used.This intrigues me. Give me an example? :)
-Chris
Bonus damage added is X if your weapon's modifier is x2
X x2 if the mod is x3X x3 if the mod is x4
Something like that? I have no ideas how to balance it, I was mostly shooting wishes to the wind really =)
Design Manager
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, it just seems that it's a play style difference vs rules then. I had a DM of mine once limit me when I was playing in his game once similarly, basically saying, "Hey, I know you're good. I know your toon will be powerful. Stahp." And that's fine, but that's limits that are imposed on a game by game basis. Not all DM's feel that way. I've had and let PC's take down a big bad in a single spell (I wasn't thrilled but the players were cheering and that made me happy for them). Escalation of power is important, but in this sense I think it makes sense to not limit the rules to a single play style. Tell me if I'm way off base here, please.
What if Deadly Strike added a bit to base damage for weapons with a multiplier higher than 2? This could incentivize a broader range of weapons used.This intrigues me. Give me an example? :)
-Chris
What about changing the die size based on your weapon's crit multiplier, kind of in the thread of Thundering or Icy Burst weapons, but scaling in size instead of number? If you use a x2 crit weapon, Deadly Strike deals d6's, x3 d8's, x4 d10's? That way, if you're running on a lower crit chance / higher crit multiplier weapon, your damage is scaling up with the class feature to net you similar returns without requiring a more complicated mechanic or changing the way the basic ability works too much.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What about changing the die size based on your weapon's crit multiplier, kind of in the thread of Thundering or Icy Burst weapons, but scaling in size instead of number? If you use a x2 crit weapon, Deadly Strike deals d6's, x3 d8's, x4 d10's? That way, if you're running on a lower crit chance / higher crit multiplier weapon, your damage is scaling up with the class feature to net you similar returns without requiring a more complicated mechanic or changing the way the basic ability works too much.
Well, it just seems that it's a play style difference vs rules then. I had a DM of mine once limit me when I was playing in his game once similarly, basically saying, "Hey, I know you're good. I know your toon will be powerful. Stahp." And that's fine, but that's limits that are imposed on a game by game basis. Not all DM's feel that way. I've had and let PC's take down a big bad in a single spell (I wasn't thrilled but the players were cheering and that made me happy for them). Escalation of power is important, but in this sense I think it makes sense to not limit the rules to a single play style. Tell me if I'm way off base here, please.
What if Deadly Strike added a bit to base damage for weapons with a multiplier higher than 2? This could incentivize a broader range of weapons used.This intrigues me. Give me an example? :)
-Chris
That's quite the simple and elegant solution there. Gives reasons for the scythe wielding stalkers to exist. Because tell me that doesn't sound cool to you! :P
What say the rest of you?
-Chris
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What about changing the die size based on your weapon's crit multiplier, kind of in the thread of Thundering or Icy Burst weapons, but scaling in size instead of number? If you use a x2 crit weapon, Deadly Strike deals d6's, x3 d8's, x4 d10's? That way, if you're running on a lower crit chance / higher crit multiplier weapon, your damage is scaling up with the class feature to net you similar returns without requiring a more complicated mechanic or changing the way the basic ability works too much.
Well, it just seems that it's a play style difference vs rules then. I had a DM of mine once limit me when I was playing in his game once similarly, basically saying, "Hey, I know you're good. I know your toon will be powerful. Stahp." And that's fine, but that's limits that are imposed on a game by game basis. Not all DM's feel that way. I've had and let PC's take down a big bad in a single spell (I wasn't thrilled but the players were cheering and that made me happy for them). Escalation of power is important, but in this sense I think it makes sense to not limit the rules to a single play style. Tell me if I'm way off base here, please.
What if Deadly Strike added a bit to base damage for weapons with a multiplier higher than 2? This could incentivize a broader range of weapons used.This intrigues me. Give me an example? :)
-Chris
That's quite the simple and elegant solution there. Gives reasons for the scythe wielding stalkers to exist. Because tell me that doesn't sound cool to you! :P
What say the rest of you?
-Chris
Sounds like a great solution.
|
My original idea was simplya +1 bonus on x3 weapons and a +2 bonus on x4 weapons that goes up at 10th or 11th level to +2 bonus on damage with x3 weapon and +4 with x4 weapons. Perfection bonus maybe?
But I like Ssalarn's idea, too. Keeps the focus on the deadly strike dice and not just any old hit.
Edit: Also a question. How does a swift action maneuver like Unbreakable Talons work with Cleave and Great Cleave? How many people do you hit with the bonus damage?
What about Rending Claws and Cleave? If I hit two different people using Cleave, technically that seems sufficient to activate this maneuver. You may wish to specify that you must make (at least) two successful attacks against the same target.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Alright, consider it done. I'm going to add this into the next Stalker play test.
-Chris
|
|
I found a tiny problem with Ssalarn's idea. Almost every weapon with a x3 crit mod only crits on a 20. Everything with a x4 mod crits on a 20. While the number of people using weapons other than kukri and scimitars will now be mixed in with scythes and light picks, there will be little mechanical reason to use any x3 weapon other than the Falcata. The damage die is typically larger but I don't know it would be worth it compared to d10 Deadly Strikes.
|
I found a tiny problem with Ssalarn's idea. Almost every weapon with a x3 crit mod only crits on a 20. Everything with a x4 mod crits on a 20. While the number of people using weapons other than kukri and scimitars will now be mixed in with scythes and light picks, there will be little mechanical reason to use any x3 weapon other than the Falcata. The damage die is typically larger but I don't know it would be worth it compared to d10 Deadly Strikes.
I unfortunately didn't realize this, the Stalker is proficient with martial weapons which opens up the Pick Family of weapons which all have x4 crits. This includes the Light one handed Pick, the One handed Pick and the Heavy Pick. Two weapon fighting with the Light and 1H pick could get devastating.
Maybe it should be d6 for x2 crits and d8's for x3 and then a stalker art to open up d10's for x4.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I found a tiny problem with Ssalarn's idea. Almost every weapon with a x3 crit mod only crits on a 20. Everything with a x4 mod crits on a 20. While the number of people using weapons other than kukri and scimitars will now be mixed in with scythes and light picks, there will be little mechanical reason to use any x3 weapon other than the Falcata. The damage die is typically larger but I don't know it would be worth it compared to d10 Deadly Strikes.
Could just say x3 and x4 damage weapons do the same thing, Deadly Strike damage increases to d8's. That way, people who want the bigger damage die can go for the x3's, or the ones who want the higher crit dice go for the x4's, and both get the same benefit from Deadly Strikes?
-Chris
|
Design Manager
|
I found a tiny problem with Ssalarn's idea. Almost every weapon with a x3 crit mod only crits on a 20. Everything with a x4 mod crits on a 20. While the number of people using weapons other than kukri and scimitars will now be mixed in with scythes and light picks, there will be little mechanical reason to use any x3 weapon other than the Falcata. The damage die is typically larger but I don't know it would be worth it compared to d10 Deadly Strikes.Could just say x3 and x4 damage weapons do the same thing, Deadly Strike damage increases to d8's. That way, people who want the bigger damage die can go for the x3's, or the ones who want the higher crit dice go for the x4's, and both get the same benefit from Deadly Strikes?
-Chris
Sounds good to me.
I will note though, that x3 and x4 weapons are usually balanced within themselves, in that weapons like the Heavy Pick have smaller base damage die and things like that. The same way the scythe has one of the smallest damage ranges of any two-handed weapon, capping at 8 points of damage. So the base value of each weapon die in crits is less, but you're gaining more of them when you do. I guess the chance to crit is the same though so if the weapons are balanced to themselves... Yeah, just changing the ability to "weapons with crit multipliers higher than x2 use d8's for Deadly Strike damage" probably ought to do it.|
|
I had a couple questions earlier that might have gotten lost in this discussion so while I'm asking another, I'll repost here.
1. How does a swift action maneuver like Unbreakable Talons work with Cleave and Great Cleave? How many people do you hit with the bonus damage?
2. What about Rending Claws and Cleave? If I hit two different people using Cleave, technically that seems sufficient to activate this maneuver. You may wish to specify that you must make (at least) two successful attacks against the same target.
3. Stance of the Ether Gate. Normally you can't take a 5' step and move. I assume this applies to this stance, too? So I can't 5' step into reach of a large creature, use a maneuver and then teleport away, right?
|
Design Manager
|
Something to consider-
Weapons are balanced to themselves within the idea that while one weapon has a reduced chance to crit, it typically is adding more dice and modifiers on when it does. So a weapon with a 5 percent base chance to hit is getting 200% additional damage vs. 100% additional damage for weapons with a 10-15% base chance. However, characters running high crit-range weapons have two or three times as many chances to activate Deadly Strike over weapons that naturally only crit on a 20, but the return on investment for a d8 over a d6 is one point of damage per die on average. I might think about jumping from a d6 to a d10 to balance this out. Despite the fact that any weapon can have Deadly Strike activated by spending a ki point, statistically the high crit range guys are going to need to spend fewer ki points and will have two or three times better odds of extending the rounds Deadly Strike stays active after activating it. I think the jump to d10 over d8 would balance out better.
What I'm saying is basically this- the average bonus damage per d6 for Deadly Strike is 3.5. Over the course of 20 rounds a character with an 18-20 crit is gaining 10.5 damage per Deadly Strike die with a WIS Mod of zero. A Character using a weapon that only crits on a 20 is gaining 4.5 per Deadly Strike die (assuming d8's). While there are other benefits to high crit weapons, I think that jumping to d10 instead of d8 will balance the ability better.
|
|
One more.
4. How exactly does Dragon Assault work? I just attacked 4 times and hit once, missed, once, hit again, missed again. Does that third attack, which hit, get a d6 of extra damage or does it not get the bonus because there was a miss in between?
Playing conservatively, I'm going to not add damage.
Edit: Ssalarn's suggestion might be a good one. However, I'd suggest possibly changing the factor that determines the size of the Deadly Strike die to crit range. Otherwise, we just move to a new situation in which every single Stalker uses a Falcata. "Weapons which only threaten a critical hit on a 20 (before modifiers like keen or improved critical) use a d10 instead of a d6 with Deadly Strike."
2nd Edit: What about Flicker Strike and a 5' step or other abilities which allow a move and attack type thing?
|
|
Just finished up the level 10 fights. This time it was a guardian gargoyle, 5 Noble Crusader clerics, 4 tigers and 2 jaguars, and a General fighter. Both the Magus and the Stalker acquitted themselves well and survived all the fights but the Magus needed more healing resources to do it. The difference between AC 28 and AC 30 was apparent. The Magus showed off his insane burst damage but I was probably unnecessarily stingy with his spells and he ended the day with several left. He probably could have looked better.
In any case, the two continue to look about on par with each other. So balance is good. The Stalker has a bit less damage until he crits and then he gets crazy. Just murderballs. Crescent Moon gives a lot of interesting tactical maneuvering which was fun.
Aside from all the new questions this brought up (all posted above) or was real good.
Chris, I'll send you my notes tonight.
|
|
I found a tiny problem with Ssalarn's idea. Almost every weapon with a x3 crit mod only crits on a 20. Everything with a x4 mod crits on a 20. While the number of people using weapons other than kukri and scimitars will now be mixed in with scythes and light picks, there will be little mechanical reason to use any x3 weapon other than the Falcata. The damage die is typically larger but I don't know it would be worth it compared to d10 Deadly Strikes.Could just say x3 and x4 damage weapons do the same thing, Deadly Strike damage increases to d8's. That way, people who want the bigger damage die can go for the x3's, or the ones who want the higher crit dice go for the x4's, and both get the same benefit from Deadly Strikes?
-Chris
I know my early post kind of agreed with Yuengling Dragon but after some thought I think I should play devil advocate here against this suggestion. I think that not giving the x4 weapons there own damage dice it will completely negate any thought of using one.
Before with the d6/d8/d10 suggestion I was kind of liking the thought of using a Scythe, now though if its a just gonna be a d8 I don't see any reason to not use a Falchion or a Greataxe, both better weapons than the Scythe. With the d10 option I had more of a reason to use a scythe or a pick other than for flavor's sake. I don't know, I think bringing back the d6/d8/d10 might be alright and won't break the balance of the class.
|
Design Manager
|
Could just say x3 and x4 damage weapons do the same thing, Deadly Strike damage increases to d8's. That way, people who want the bigger damage die can go for the x3's, or the ones who want the higher crit dice go for the x4's, and both get the same benefit from Deadly Strikes?
-Chris
I know my early post kind of agreed with Yuengling Dragon but after some thought I think I should play devil advocate here against this suggestion. I think that not giving the x4 weapons there own damage dice it will completely negate any thought of using one.
Before with the d6/d8/d10 suggestion I was kind of liking the thought of using a Scythe, now though if its a just gonna be a d8 I don't see any reason to not use a Falchion or a Greataxe, both better weapons than the Scythe. With the d10 option I had more of a reason to use a scythe or a pick other than for flavor's sake. I don't know, I think bringing back the d6/d8/d10 might be alright and won't break the balance of the class.
Okay I've run the reasons for why I think, if you're going to do the varying dice sizes, it should be d6/d10 instead of d6/d8.
Now I'm going to throw a reason to keep the d6/d8/d10 format.
Most x4 weapons kind of suck (at least mechanically). They pretty much universally have smaller damage die than their x2 and x3 cousins, and I honestly cannot even remember the last time a player actually built a character intending to use a scythe or pick. There may have been one time I used a scythe back in the late 3.5 days because there was that Weaponmaster prestige class that increased your critical threat range. They suck even more when you apply them to maneuver based classes, because odds are that these guys won't even make 20 attacks during the course of the day and may never roll a 20. I grant you that some of that is true of x3 weapons, but at least those have d8's, d10's and d12's for their primary damage. The x4 weapons are crap by comparison. I mean, come on, the scythe is a two-handed weapon that does 2-8 damage. that's one point of minimum and average damage more than a one-handed longsword. I think that giving the class some incentive to utilize the rarely used x4 weapons is cool. The guys at Paizo have said on multiple occasions that not all options have to be equal, and I think that applies here. If the Stalker is predominantly using high crit range or high crit multiplier weapons more, that's okay.
There should be a class that has good reason to utilize some of those weapons, and I think that giving x4 weapons a bit of an edge just means that this class will continue to expand the range of options people actually utilize. If they don't use dwarven waraxes, battlehammers, and greataxes as often, that's okay, lots of other classes use those, and they'd still get a larger damage die than their lower multiplier cousins.
Sooo.... I'm kind of in favor of sticking with the d6/d8/d10 by multiplier combo, despite it giving x4 weapons an edge. I think they deserve it and it actually brings more to the game that way, incentivizing people to use rarely utilized but thematically cool weapons.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You could go really different and require X or higher on your base weapon die for whatever effects the Stalker is currently using critical hits for.
This also has the intriguing advantage that daggers are suddenly really good weapons for this class. You'll be doing a bit less damage with your dagger, but you'll be hitting the target number, 4, pretty often.
You could have an ability to spend ki to lower the points you need to do with base damage by 1.
Have a chart that lists the 'base damage die' and the corresponding goal number.
And hey, suddenly vital strike may be useful.
Just need something about that if your weapon has less than d4, you roll a d4 anyways, and get it on a 4. That way no one cheeses a small dagger to get the bonuses on every third hit.
Of course, I haven't read the class, but it's a mechanic I've been tossing around in my head. And now at you.
|
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This also has the intriguing advantage that daggers are suddenly really good weapons for this class. You'll be doing a bit less damage with your dagger, but you'll be hitting the target number, 4, pretty often.
You could have an ability to spend ki to lower the points you need to do with base damage by 1.
Have a chart that lists the 'base damage die' and the corresponding goal number.
And hey, suddenly vital strike may be useful.
Just need something about that if your weapon has less than d4, you roll a d4 anyways, and get it on a 4. That way no one cheeses a small dagger to get the bonuses on every third hit.
Of course, I haven't read the class, but it's a mechanic I've been tossing around in my head. And now at you.
I feel like the mechanic you propose is cool, but it needs to be something a class is based around, not something pigeonholed into a class ability that's just part of an already complex class' system.
Its got a bit of that Complete Scoundrel luck-based feel to it, could be great attached to a bard or rogue type character with a striker leaning, not really something I'd want to stack on top the initiator system though.
Well, as I said, I still haven't read that class yet. But that hasn't stopped me from trying to help out previously in this thread :) you guys give a good enough overview of the class!
Is each disciplin going to have it's own favored weapons and or skill?
I had a couple questions earlier that might have gotten lost in this discussion so while I'm asking another, I'll repost here.
1. How does a swift action maneuver like Unbreakable Talons work with Cleave and Great Cleave? How many people do you hit with the bonus damage?
Doesn't work, Unbreakable Talons needs you to be two weapon fighting. That is a full attack action, or it's own standard if you're using a strike maneuver like Swift Claws. Can't mix it with Cleave, which is it's own standard action. Other boosts could be used with Cleave (I suggest Jade Throne for this), but no strikes. Strikes can't be combined with Cleave, Spring Attack nor Vital Strike.
2. What about Rending Claws and Cleave? If I hit two different people using Cleave, technically that seems sufficient to activate this maneuver. You may wish to specify that you must make (at least) two successful attacks against the same target.
Doesn't work with Cleave either. You need to hit with two different weapons, if you Cleave your second attack uses the same bonus and the same weapon as the first attack. Cleave is really supoptimal when you can use Swift Claw or Thrashing Dragon Twist.
3. Stance of the Ether Gate. Normally you can't take a 5' step and move. I assume this applies to this stance, too? So I can't 5' step into reach of a large creature, use a maneuver and then teleport away, right?
This is a good question. I wuld guess no, you can't five foot step and teleport.
|
|
So I did a little bit of playtesting on a level 5 Warlord doing the same thing that the Magus and Stalker have done before. It was less formal so I don't have notes but here's the build.
Feats
1 Power Attack
1h Furious Focus
1b Improved Bull Rush
3 Weapon Focus (greatsword)
3t Paired Opportunists
5 Cleave
Gambits
1 Victory Gambit
1 Brave Gambit
4 Gatecrasher Gambit
Stances Known
1 Stance of Aggression
2 Circular Stance
5 Stance of the Devil Tiger
Maneuvers Known
1 Tiger's Swipe,
1 Tiger on the Hunt
1 Crushing Blow
1 Scything Strike
1 Blade of Breaking
1 Jade Zephyr's Strike
2 Shoulder Rush
3 Raging Tiger Pounce
4r Jade Barrier replaces Shoulder Rush
5 Blade Breaking Strike
Maneuver's Readied
Tiger's Swipe, Crushing Blow, Scything Strike, Raging Tiger Pounce, Jade Barrier, Blade Breaking Strike
10,500g
+1 Greatsword (2350)
+1 Breastplate (1500)
+1 Ring of Def (2000)
+1 Amulet of NA (2000)
+1 Cloak of Resistance (1000)
AC 19
Flatfooted 19 Touch 11
Fort +8 Ref +2 Will +2
CMB +10 (+12 bull rush) CMD 21
+12 2d6+13
Some points.
1. The Warlord really could use some boosts to initiative. It's hard to charge when you don't go before your enemies. If I built this guy again I'd replace Cleave with Improved Initiative. And probably pick a trait for initiative, too. I never got to charge once.
2. Jade Barrier is kind of crap. The Warlord has too many valuable stats already to put any in Wisdom and that makes it hard to pull this off with any kind of reasonable success rate.
3. Blade-breaking Strike is awesome. Now, that's a good counter.
4. I liked Stance of the Devil Tiger. Doing 3d6 with his greatsword is pretty beast. I wouldn't mind seeing a size bonus to combat maneuvers, too, though I don't want to unbalance it.
5. There is probably no character that benefits more from Furious Focus than an initiator. All the benefits of power attack with no penalties? Yup.
|
|
I just statted up the level fifteen Stalker and he looks like a monster. Six attacks and Maneuvers that will let me do them even on the first round if I win initiative which I likely will with +12. That means I should crit on the first round to activate deadly strikes for 6 rounds and with stunning critical I'll be debuffing too.
Question: Does Tail Slap do nonlethal damage if you don't have improved unarmed attack?
Is each disciplin going to have it's own favored weapons and or skill?
Definitely, there are three weapon groups associated with each discipline plus a Skill.
I had a couple questions earlier that might have gotten lost in this discussion so while I'm asking another, I'll repost here.
1. How does a swift action maneuver like Unbreakable Talons work with Cleave and Great Cleave? How many people do you hit with the bonus damage?
Doesn't work, Unbreakable Talons needs you to be two weapon fighting. That is a full attack action, or it's own standard if you're using a strike maneuver like Swift Claws. Can't mix it with Cleave, which is it's own standard action. Other boosts could be used with Cleave (I suggest Jade Throne for this), but no strikes. Strikes can't be combined with Cleave, Spring Attack nor Vital Strike.
2. What about Rending Claws and Cleave? If I hit two different people using Cleave, technically that seems sufficient to activate this maneuver. You may wish to specify that you must make (at least) two successful attacks against the same target.Doesn't work with Cleave either. You need to hit with two different weapons, if you Cleave your second attack uses the same bonus and the same weapon as the first attack. Cleave is really supoptimal when you can use Swift Claw or Thrashing Dragon Twist.
3. Stance of the Ether Gate. Normally you can't take a 5' step and move. I assume this applies to this stance, too? So I can't 5' step into reach of a large creature, use a maneuver and then teleport away, right?This is a good question. I wuld guess no, you can't five foot step and teleport.
Well, nothing stops you from taking a 5ft step, attacking/using a spell, and using a quickened dimension door for example (closest equivalent I could think of). So, yeah, you could 5ft step, attack, then slip through the ether to another location.
So I did a little bit of playtesting on a level 5 Warlord doing the same thing that the Magus and Stalker have done before. It was less formal so I don't have notes but here's the build.
** spoiler omitted **
Some points.
1. The Warlord really could use some boosts to initiative. It's hard to charge when you don't go before your enemies. If I built this guy again I'd replace Cleave with Improved Initiative. And probably pick a trait for initiative, too. I never got to charge once.
2. Jade Barrier is kind of crap. The Warlord has too many valuable stats already to put any in Wisdom and that makes it hard to pull this off with any kind of reasonable success rate.
3. Blade-breaking Strike is awesome. Now, that's a good counter.
4. I liked Stance of the Devil Tiger. Doing 3d6 with his greatsword is pretty beast. I wouldn't mind seeing a size bonus to combat maneuvers, too, though I don't want to unbalance it.
5. There is probably no character that benefits more from Furious Focus than an initiator. All the benefits of power attack with no penalties? Yup.
High dex Warlords won't have as much of a problem, and it's not like they don't get 2 traits at level 1 and a free combat feat too. I don't think they need it as a class feature, they've got enough going on.
Well, I considered making it straight attack roll but that's pretty much Wall of Blades from Iron Heart if I did that. Hence the skill check. Even with a +0 or +1 Wisdom mod, at 3rd level your bonus could easily be 1 + 3 + 3 = +7, roughly equal to your attack bonus for that level 16 Str (+3) + 3 (BAB) = +6. Not taking feats or items into account, which could boost either side.
Blade-breaking Strike is pretty fun. :)
I don't want to unbalance it either, I think it's pretty decent right there... but I dunno, lemme crunch numbers. It might happen.
Unintentionally so, but yes, Furious Focus is pretty awesome for initiators.
I just statted up the level fifteen Stalker and he looks like a monster. Six attacks and Maneuvers that will let me do them even on the first round if I win initiative which I likely will with +12. That means I should crit on the first round to activate deadly strikes for 6 rounds and with stunning critical I'll be debuffing too.
Question: Does Tail Slap do nonlethal damage if you don't have improved unarmed attack?
Stalkers are meant to make people rethink their miserably short lives in a quick hurry, so that pleases me some :)
If you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike? Hmm... as it's written now, yes. It would be non-lethal.
----
As an aside, I'm in the process of renaming some of the disciplines to make them less "asian" influenced/sounding. Little more general fantasy. Jade Throne I was going to rename Scarlet Throne, and Crescent Moon I'm moving to Veiled Moon.
Now, I need to rename Devil Tiger (leaning towards Devil Blade), and I need to come up with a name for a sword'n'board discipline (I'm leaning towards Iron Bulwark) and an unarmed discipline (possibly). Any takers for the name game?
-Chris
Fiend Blade. Fiend is more abrangent, evil-outsider-ly speaking, so you can avoid demon and daemon's complaining. But there's also the Survival side of the discipline... what about Fiend Fury?
Iron Bulwark is nice. Can we know the discipline's skills, so we could name it properly.
Iron Bulwark sounds pretty perfect for sword-n-board. My reflex response was Iron Wall but that's like a step down.
Another vote for Fiendish Fury (I think it rolls off the tongue better than just Fiend).
An unarmed style... how about:
Adamant Fist
Frenzied Talon
Meteor Palm
Shattering Grip
Endless Force
Broken Sky
|
|
Crescent Moon doesn't seem Asian to me. I actually associate it more with the Middle East.
Sword and Board, I like "Rampart" more than Bulwark. Did you know the FX show, "The Shield" was going to be named Rampart at first?
I honestly can't think of anything for an unarmed style that doesn't sound Asian. Krav Maga is literally translated as "contact combat." I don't know where to go from there. This is like stream of consciousness typing. Adamantine Contact?
Bloody Knuckles? Furious Fists. Something with Breaker?
Question for my level 15 playtest. Can I use Eclipsing Moon if I'm not in reach of an enemy by essentially forgoing my first attack or is that initial attack essential to starting the teleportation?
Edit: How does Flashing Ether Touch work? How does it work against flying foes?
Iron Rampart also works.
Iron Bulwark sounds too descriptive to me. Its sort of like calling your discipline "shield fighting." I like the names like "Scarlet Throne" because they are a little whimsical. How about "Dancing Mountain" or "Iron Tower"?
For unarmed combat, it would depend on what other theme the unarmed combat uses. If its mostly about punches, kicks or throws or what not. How about "Subtle Hand" or "Ursine Roar"
I like Iron Rampart, anything longer is likely to be too many syllables. Most discipline names are between 3-5 syllables long. I'd like to keep it that way because the names tend to flow better.
Ursine Roar is pretty good.
-Chris
I really like the classes I've seen so far. I am just wondering, and it hasn't been mentioned much but what are the chances we will see prestige classess that meld the initiators with some of the core classes?
Well, Pathfinder has a deep love of archetypes over Prestige Classes, but there will be some for those who absolutely need a bit of blending. There will be psionic support, and I'm going to try to push in there a few PrC's that blend arcane and divine magic with maneuvers, among others.
-Chris
Man, I liked the duality between Golden Lion and Devil Tiger. I think if you change Devil Tigers name you should change Goldn Lions, too. But then the maneuvers that mention roars and prodes don't make much sense...
If anything meeds changing is the bunch of remoras on Crescent Moon. Dafuq is a remora? And what does it have to do with poisons? These are questions that need to be answered.
Still think you should consider my idea :)
Man, I liked the duality between Golden Lion and Devil Tiger. I think if you change Devil Tigers name you should change Goldn Lions, too. But then the maneuvers that mention roars and prodes don't make much sense...
If anything meeds changing is the bunch of remoras on Crescent Moon. Dafuq is a remora? And what does it have to do with poisons? These are questions that need to be answered.
I did, I used a word a friend suggested, because it sounded cool and because it meant something to do with the moon. I later find out it's a sucker fish. I changed them in the latest update to Penumbras.
-Chris
Since each school does have it's own favored weapons, I would actually like to see them be well integrated into the powers. In ToB, a lot of them seems kinda random and like their wasn't any real reason you would want to use the favored weapons. Or they were blatantly arbitrary.
Since each school does have it's own favored weapons, I would actually like to see them be well integrated into the powers. In ToB, a lot of them seems kinda random and like their wasn't any real reason you would want to use the favored weapons. Or they were blatantly arbitrary.
They are, many of the abilities require you to be fighting in a certain way or use certain weapon(s) to be able to function. Some don't, making them more universal, but MANY require that you fight in a certain way.
-Chris
What kind of archetypes then can we expect to see? I am familiar with the psionics material, will they be similar to how they present the archetypes in those books? Will we be seeing a play test for them, by chance?I really like the classes I've seen so far. I am just wondering, and it hasn't been mentioned much but what are the chances we will see prestige classess that meld the initiators with some of the core classes?Well, Pathfinder has a deep love of archetypes over Prestige Classes, but there will be some for those who absolutely need a bit of blending. There will be psionic support, and I'm going to try to push in there a few PrC's that blend arcane and divine magic with maneuvers, among others.
-Chris
Too early to say exactly, but there will martial archetypes that will be put together for several of the base classes (the ones that get into the mix most but don't have full spell paths), as well as psionic classes like the soulknife, psychic warrior, and marksman. You will see playtests for some of those as soon as I get the 3rd base class out, that's the next project on my list. :)
-Chris
I know it's a little early for this as well but I was wondering if you intended to do Mythic support with this material or if you were still thinking about it?
I'm not planning on it, no, because just like this book, it's an optional add-on. There's no reason why you couldn't have a Champion Warlord however, so they do mix. Just no mythic versions of the disciplines or the feats in this book. If I'm told that we're doing it, we're doing it, but until then I'm saying no, we're not.
-Chris
Working diligently on getting the final alpha of the Warlord together, and with some changes to the disciplines and such to boot. I want people to pay close attention to the disciplines themselves less to the class, since it seems that its less the issue now and I want to make sure the maneuvers/disciplines are looking great. Myself and DSP are more or less pretty happy with the Warlord as it is now, so expect some slight refinements in the Gambit System, but otherwise, pay attention to the disciplines. I've even got a surprise for you. ;)
-Chris