A previous thread got me to thinking on this. I'm something of a social introvert--that is, I love talking to people, though it takes energy to do so. That said, I've...got something I'm not sure how to handle. If any of y'all have dealt with something similar, I'd appreciate any advice you have to give.
You see, at one point in our gaming careers or another, we've all known the guy or gal who'd not taken a bath, who...well, we all have. So this is where it's leading to:
My area just opened one of its first honest-to-goodness brick and mortar gaming shops. The trouble is, it's already showing signs of becoming one of those shops. ...you know the type. The owner smells as though he hasn't bathed in months, and the place is already gaining layers of funkitude.
Have any of y'all ever brought this up, and if so, how? They do a lot of M:tG and CCGs (in fact, that's almost all the store does). It's not something I play. That's the other issue.
If they did board games, or Pathfinder (he says he's looking into PFS), I and my friends would stop by more often. As it is, though...
...this would be a nonregular patron walking in and saying: you got the funk, dude. I've thought of purchasing a bunch of 'gamer soaps' and delivering them, but that struck me as a little passive-aggressive, unless I could think of a fun way to do it, and even then...
Yeah. :/
Have any of you ever handled something similar? If so, how, and how did it go?
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I would tell the owner that his store has an offensive odor and that it might be costing him business. I wouldn't refer to it as "BO odor" or suggest that it is due to his own funkiness.
I'm notoriously direct in my interactions with people and in a situation like this I'd almost consider it a public service to tell the owner the problem.
It's a little beyond just the owner... Now that it's aging, his store has started to get that: I've never cleaned/dusted etc. look, as well. It's only been there most of a year.
Just to be doubly clear, this is addressing the whole of the place.
And you're likely right. This is just going to take a lot of my energy. It may be better to pull him to the side, somehow.
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Put this anonymously under the door:
Dear sir.
I am in your target market. I have disposable income. I have geek cred. I also believe in the critical role that local game stores play as a connective tissue that can bring people together in a way that the internet cannot yet manage.
I am reluctant to shop in your store. I find that the store is not well-ventilated. It has a distinctive odour that I find off-putting. Being naturally quite shy, and averse to conflict, I have wrestled with how to broach this topic. Please forgive my inability to approach you directly.
I find it highly likely that I am not the only real or potential customer to be dissuaded from supporting your business by the unpleasantness of the environment in your store. You are competing globally. Most RPG purchases are though internet vendors now. You cannot afford to make shopping online a superior experience to shopping at [insert store name here.]
Please consider the example and advice available at
http://blackdiamondgames.blogspot.tw/2013/06/store-rescue.html
If you make your store pleasant to visit, I will visit. I will spend, and I will tell all my friends about you. I want you to succeed.
Yours sincerely
anonymous.
A letter works like above, or just saying something like what was written above. I would go another step and if the owner interacts well with you over this topic, purchase something to show that you want to continue business there.
I once had a player who had a serious B.O. problem. When he wanted to ride to a convention with us we had a talk with him about bathing and deodorant. There's no way to sugarcoat it, but you can say it without being mean.
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I second the anonymous letter, but I think the one above could be reworded slightly.
Just make it sincere, you have the best interest of the store at heart.
If you do decide to game there, don't be rude, be subtle. Bring strong scented candles to your table (I think they make the electric kind, but you can be obvious about it. Leave the candles and bring more each game session. If he doesn't get the point, leave a sign with the candles.
Put this anonymously under the door:
Dear sir.
I am in your target market. I have disposable income. I have geek cred. I also believe in the critical role that local game stores play as a connective tissue that can bring people together in a way that the internet cannot yet manage.
I am reluctant to shop in your store. I find that the store is not well-ventilated. It has a distinctive odour that I find off-putting. Being naturally quite shy, and averse to conflict, I have wrestled with how to broach this topic. Please forgive my inability to approach you directly.
I find it highly likely that I am not the only real or potential customer to be dissuaded from supporting your business by the unpleasantness of the environment in your store. You are competing globally. Most RPG purchases are though internet vendors now. You cannot afford to make shopping online a superior experience to shopping at [insert store name here.]
Please consider the example and advice available at
http://blackdiamondgames.blogspot.tw/2013/06/store-rescue.html
If you make your store pleasant to visit, I will visit. I will spend, and I will tell all my friends about you. I want you to succeed.
Yours sincerely
anonymous.
This is a terrific way to deal with the problem.
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If you do decide to game there, don't be rude, be subtle. Bring strong scented candles to your table (I think they make the electric kind, but you can be obvious about it. Leave the candles and bring more each game session. If he doesn't get the point, leave a sign with the candles.
This, on the other hand, sounds like the worst kind of non-confrontational, passive-agressive b#+~#iness I've ever heard of; don't do this.
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I would just say it outright. "Dude your store SMELLS bad. I have the horrid taste of it in my mouth for half an hour after i leave here. I also don't wanna buy stuff from you because I'm afraid that books will stink as well."
A friend of mine ran a FLGS (it closed not too long after this happened). I used to hang with him a lot being out of a job at that time and done with my finals. Every saturday there would be a MtG tournament. Nobody came on saturday except MtG players. They STANK. I know some hobos who regularly ride on a tram i use to get to work who smelled less pungent. And those guys don't really have access to showers. These guys do. And they REEK. You want to vomit when you smell them.
So, when a new FLGS opened, that same friend issued a store policy.
"No personal hygiene, no service."
I think it should be used at all times.
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My friend has left a bottle of fabreeze on the counter before.
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Or just go in with two cans of air freshener and start spraying until your fingers cramp from pressing on the button.
I laughed out loud when I read this. I pictured someone in a ski mask like it was a freaking robbery and the utter look of bewilderment on everyones faces in the store
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This is a terrific way to deal with the problem.Put this anonymously under the door:
Dear sir.
I am in your target market. I have disposable income. I have geek cred. I also believe in the critical role that local game stores play as a connective tissue that can bring people together in a way that the internet cannot yet manage.
I am reluctant to shop in your store. I find that the store is not well-ventilated. It has a distinctive odour that I find off-putting. Being naturally quite shy, and averse to conflict, I have wrestled with how to broach this topic. Please forgive my inability to approach you directly.
I find it highly likely that I am not the only real or potential customer to be dissuaded from supporting your business by the unpleasantness of the environment in your store. You are competing globally. Most RPG purchases are though internet vendors now. You cannot afford to make shopping online a superior experience to shopping at [insert store name here.]
Please consider the example and advice available at
http://blackdiamondgames.blogspot.tw/2013/06/store-rescue.html
If you make your store pleasant to visit, I will visit. I will spend, and I will tell all my friends about you. I want you to succeed.
Yours sincerely
anonymous.
I would remove the personal notes on your shyness unless you want the store owner and anyone else he shares the letter with to have insight of who might have sent the letter. Keep it polite, formal, and non-personal.
Threads like this tend to reinforce the idea that gamers seem to have little to no social skill development in functioning in polite society.
Basic rules of courtesy apply no matter where you are and what you're doing. If you have a problem with an establishment and wish to remain in the owner's good graces, the solution is fairly simple... Talk to him or her PRIVATELY. And express your concerns. This way you get your message across without said person losing face in public?
Are we so far gone in as a civil society that we can't figure this out on our own?
I've never said I'm unwilling to, man. You are making a lot of assumptions if this is directed at me.
On the other hand, if this is a general statement, by all means. :) However, talking about the degeneration of society in general is probably best directed in another thread that isn't focused on advice.
I would remove the personal notes on your shyness unless you want the store owner and anyone else he shares the letter with to have insight of who might have sent the letter. Keep it polite, formal, and non-personal.This is a terrific way to deal with the problem.Put this anonymously under the door:
Dear sir.
I am in your target market. I have disposable income. I have geek cred. I also believe in the critical role that local game stores play as a connective tissue that can bring people together in a way that the internet cannot yet manage.
I am reluctant to shop in your store. I find that the store is not well-ventilated. It has a distinctive odour that I find off-putting. Being naturally quite shy, and averse to conflict, I have wrestled with how to broach this topic. Please forgive my inability to approach you directly.
I find it highly likely that I am not the only real or potential customer to be dissuaded from supporting your business by the unpleasantness of the environment in your store. You are competing globally. Most RPG purchases are though internet vendors now. You cannot afford to make shopping online a superior experience to shopping at [insert store name here.]
Please consider the example and advice available at
http://blackdiamondgames.blogspot.tw/2013/06/store-rescue.html
If you make your store pleasant to visit, I will visit. I will spend, and I will tell all my friends about you. I want you to succeed.
Yours sincerely
anonymous.
Noted. I'm still thinking on the idea of the note. ...it's a route I hadn't considered until now. That it has so many suggestions makes me consider it...even if I don't go that way, the phrasing is pretty helpful and could help the conversation. Thank you. :)
This guy has given me the impression that he wants to be in this for the long-term, and I'd really like to see that happen.
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A smelly game store will make me turn around and leave every time.
Which insinuates that you have multiple game stores that you are able to visit, in your area.
Not everyone is so lucky.
Which insinuates that you have multiple game stores that you are able to visit, in your area.
Not everyone is so lucky.
Even when I lived in an area with only one game store, this was the case.
And what did you do as an alternative?
And what did you do as an alternative?
Bought online or did without.
So your advice to the OP would be to buy online or do without?
I think telling the man his store smells unpleasant is the best option. Do not tell him his store smells like people that haven't showered or that HE smells like he hasn't showered, just that it smells unpleasant in here.
The problem with a note is that you can't be sure he actually read the note, or plans on doing something about it, without asking and thus revealing you wrote the note, making it a pointless exercise.
This store isn't in central Arkansas, is it?
Owner - Black Diamond Games
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You have to be direct and tell him to his face that the place smells, that this comes from a place of kindness and you want him to succeed. There is a strong likelihood that he's entirely unable to perceive the smell.
We used to have an all male staff and as we hired women, we finally hit a critical mass and they banded together to let us know that our standards of cleanliness would have to be improved if we hoped to attract and retain female customers. It was a shock, since by my own standards, the store was pretty clean. It wasn't nearly clean enough it turned out. "Pretty clean" is not clean.
It costs actual money to keep a store clean. Ours requires about 5 hours a week of intensive cleaning and an hour a day of maintenance, along with maybe another 5 hours a month of "projects," like carpet cleaning or painting the walls. When we weren't making money, those hours seemed like madness, and they never felt like they were enough to get the job done. But you have to do it.
It also requires that everyone agree on standards of cleanliness. One person can't be responsible for keeping the whole place clean. Just ask your mom. ;)
Threads like this tend to reinforce the idea that gamers seem to have little to no social skill development in functioning in polite society.
Basic rules of courtesy apply no matter where you are and what you're doing. If you have a problem with an establishment and wish to remain in the owner's good graces, the solution is fairly simple... Talk to him or her PRIVATELY. And express your concerns. This way you get your message across without said person losing face in public?
Are we so far gone in as a civil society that we can't figure this out on our own?
For some people it's still an awkward situation. It's confronting something that can be very personal and awkward.
Asking for advice is both a way to sound out the plan ahead of time and a way to get tips on how such a conversation might take place without souring a relationship. The asker gets feedback that helps them mentally prepare for the conversation.
The concept of a poorly run gaming store isn't new and it isn't an outrageous assumption to think that at least one other person has dealt with, or been in, a similar situation.
As far as the thread somehow contributing to how wider society views gamers, I think that's a stretch. The Paizo forums being a common website for people not involved in gaming in any way does not seem likely.
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So your advice to the OP would be to buy online or do without?
It's not an unfair response.
You can't just make do with playing in a place that stinks, and it's really not your responsibility with having to address the problem.
If you don't want to address it with the owner - which, let's face it, cam be embarrassing for everyone, then subtract the whole issue from the equation.
It may not be how you or I would deal with it, but it's anyone prerogative to just discard the whole idea of going in the first place.
A good thing to do is make sure you don't carry open flames into the store.
Be friendly, apologetic, helpful, and if they kick you out, it isn't a giant loss.
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You have to be direct and tell him to his face that the place smells, that this comes from a place of kindness and you want him to succeed. There is a strong likelihood that he's entirely unable to perceive the smell.
We used to have an all male staff and as we hired women, we finally hit a critical mass and they banded together to let us know that our standards of cleanliness would have to be improved if we hoped to attract and retain female customers. It was a shock, since by my own standards, the store was pretty clean. It wasn't nearly clean enough it turned out. "Pretty clean" is not clean.
It costs actual money to keep a store clean. Ours requires about 5 hours a week of intensive cleaning and an hour a day of maintenance, along with maybe another 5 hours a month of "projects," like carpet cleaning or painting the walls. When we weren't making money, those hours seemed like madness, and they never felt like they were enough to get the job done. But you have to do it.
It also requires that everyone agree on standards of cleanliness. One person can't be responsible for keeping the whole place clean. Just ask your mom. ;)
Luckily, I go to this store and it is always clean and fresh.