Everyone's really looking forward to this AP, and we've been working on our characters, both separately and as a prospective party. We're taking the angle of 'chosen' warriors sent or called to this region by our respective Gods for a purpose that has yet to be revealed. We really like the potential role-play associated with the characters, but it doesn't look like a 'classic' party. In particular I'm a little worried that it might roll through the early to middle levels but not have enough power at the top end - none of us know anything about the mythic rules.
Tiefling 1st level Oracle (Lore) / 19th level Paladin (Oath of Vengeance, Oath Against Fiends), raised in secret by a remote dwarven temple to Torag after his aasimar mother died in childbirth, the offspring of an Incubus intent on breeding for his own nefarious purposes. Stoic, brooding but the very embodiment of nobility and self-sacrifice.
Aasimar 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 18th level Dervish of Dawn, two of these, male and female twins who are ardent worshippers of Sarenrae. The Tiefling above will wrestle with his growing feelings for the sister while the brother regards him with utter disdain and suspicion.
Dwarven 2nd level Wild Rager / 18th level Theologian (Madness), a wild card, driven more than summoned, his motives as closely held a secret as his sanity.
The party should be pretty heavy on face & knowldge skills, healing (even in-combat healing), buffs and melee power... but it lacks any real battlefield control or a serious ranged threat. I'm wondering if that will come back to haunt us?
I must admit surprise the Tiefling didn't bother going straight Paladin so to get the 20th level Paladin abilities. One level of Oracle seems less than useful. For that matter, the other two characters likewise went with one class primary and just two levels in another... why? Why not stick with one class?
Finally... while other APs can be done with under four characters, I fear that this one (which has as an end-game 20th level, 10th tier characters taking on an AP 30 Demon Lord) may be underpowered. I know many players hate GMPCs. Consider one. For bonus points, you could do a Mute Oracle and thus get away with him or her not saying anything! ;)
I'm guessing the level of Oracle's for Sidestep Secret. Probably not the worst tradeoff, since it'll be useful throughout the game rather than just the last lap.
Agreed on the other two multiclasses, though.
I'm guessing the level of Oracle's for Sidestep Secret. Probably not the worst tradeoff, since it'll be useful throughout the game rather than just the last lap.
Agreed on the other two multiclasses, though.
That's a big part of the decision, and it fit in well with the character's backstory. We usually build characters for the whole game, not so much with an eye towards post-20 content.
I must admit surprise the Tiefling didn't bother going straight Paladin so to get the 20th level Paladin abilities. One level of Oracle seems less than useful. For that matter, the other two characters likewise went with one class primary and just two levels in another... why? Why not stick with one class?
Finally... while other APs can be done with under four characters, I fear that this one (which has as an end-game 20th level, 10th tier characters taking on an AP 30 Demon Lord) may be underpowered. I know many players hate GMPCs. Consider one. For bonus points, you could do a Mute Oracle and thus get away with him or her not saying anything! ;)
There are four characters in this group - as written, there are twin Dervishes, a brother and a sister, meaning that there are two of them in addition to the Dwarven Cleric and the Paladin.
The Dervishes are taking the Crane Style feats which fits in perfectly with their fighting style, and they get an early, potent saving throw boost, evasion and other benefits as well.
The Dwarven Cleric is a character the player has been itching to play since a foray into Way of the Wicked. Two levels of Wild Rager make him a serious potential melee threat and also give him movement on par with the rest of the group. The Theologian archetype and Magical Knack covers some of the loss in Clerical potency... in all cases the characters are potentially giving up something very late in the character's devlopment in order to gain a lot more earlier on, and in each case the dip suits the character's concept ideally.
As I said, I'm only concerned with the lack of a potent ranged threat and the limited control ability of the party as a whole... with so much melee power and so much in-combat healing ability, I'm not really worried about survivability.
Actually, Clerics still benefit from multi-classing due to their lack of 20th level bonuses (they and generalist wizards are the two classes ignored by the 20th level bonuses).
I'd missed that there were two Dervishes. Sorry. ^^;;
Given the speed of the group, the lack of ranged weapons isn't a big deal. Conversely, the Paladin could either go with Holy Gun or the archer variant.
Actually, Clerics still benefit from multi-classing due to their lack of 20th level bonuses (they and generalist wizards are the two classes ignored by the 20th level bonuses).
I'd missed that there were two Dervishes. Sorry. ^^;;
Given the speed of the group, the lack of ranged weapons isn't a big deal. Conversely, the Paladin could either go with Holy Gun or the archer variant.
Actually I was more concerned with flyers. The original plan was for the second dervish to be a Master Summoner with access to flying creatures, but he got all excited about the Dervish character that was being made and came up with the idea for a twin.
The Paladin is set - he was the first character made and he was made long before this AP was even announced. Guess we'll just have to get creative.
The cleric could still be a strong summoner. In fact, there is a Feat that aura-possessing casters can use to cast Summoning spells as a Standard Action, and then other Feats to boost the power of the Summons (including Feats that provide summoned critters with attacks that count as silver, cold iron, or magic weapons).
The Paladin can still use ranged weapons, btw. And there's always Fly potions and magic items that provide flight.
The cleric could still be a strong summoner. In fact, there is a Feat that aura-possessing casters can use to cast Summoning spells as a Standard Action, and then other Feats to boost the power of the Summons (including Feats that provide summoned critters with attacks that count as silver, cold iron, or magic weapons).
Unfortunately he's running the Cleric as 'true neutral'. He's got a pretty impressive build/concept though - he carries a Dorn-Dergar as his 'deity's weapon', its heavy end actually a piece of raw star-metal ore. The madness-infused rock doubles as his holy symbol (he's less a priest and more an unwitting herald, but it all fits his background).
At 6th level, with WBL-appropriate gear and under the benefits of a simple Haste spell, his full attack would be +14/+12/+12 for 1d10+18 damage. That's pretty strong. Moreover, his Clerical Domain powers would still be at 6th level potency as would his CL. He'd still only have access to the spells of a 4th level Cleric but that's not so terrible a trade-off for being such a monster in combat.
That shouldn't matter. Clerics possess an Aura as a class feature. As such, any Cleric should, even if that Aura is "Neutrality" (I have no strong feelings concerning this subject). In addition, their aura would be influenced by how they Channel energy - if it's "positive" or "negative" and even alternative Channeling still is impacted by this.
That shouldn't matter. Clerics possess an Aura as a class feature. As such, any Cleric should, even if that Aura is "Neutrality" (I have no strong feelings concerning this subject). In addition, their aura would be influenced by how they Channel energy - if it's "positive" or "negative" and even alternative Channeling still is impacted by this.
This could be incorrect, but to my knowledge there are no creatures with an 'Alignment subtype' of neutral, which I would imagine means a neutral Cleric can't get any mileage out of the Sacred Summons feat. And neutral Clerics who channel positive energy don't suddenly gain 'Good' auras, do they?
I'd love to be wrong on this.
Lamashtu is the only deity who has the Madness Domain and is Chaotic Evil. Being a follower of just Madness alone is of course doable... but I'd consider Madness to be a Chaotic aspect. Thus even though he's True Neutral, he'd register with a Chaotic aura. That's just me, however, based off of what I gleaned by looking at the books quickly.
I appreciate the responses. The character in question, if he had a specific deity, it would be Azathoth the Old One (who also has the Madness Domain), but he's not a worshipper per se - he was captured by an Aboleth society deep beneath the earth and made a slave, eventually escaping and fleeing to the surface where he was greeted with a starry night sky - the very origin of his tormentors surrounfing everything. It broke his mind. Now he's dark abd brooding and convinced of the end of the world at the hands of Abberant overlords though he refuses to surrender to it. I'm not 100% sure how he's going to play this angle for the AP though...
I really don't think the player is a Summoner type though, so the point is probably moot.
Without knowing any more about the AP than what's been put out, I expect this group to waltz through most combat encounters, but the ones they don't might end up being a real struggle for them.
One other thing to consider is that a 1st level Paladin spell "encourages" the recipient (if they fail a will save) to approach the Paladin while avoiding AoO of other players. If the critter ends up by the Paladin, he gets a free attack. (Also the cleric spell "Command" can use the word "Approach" which I saw in use recently in my RoW campaign.)
Smart players will come up with ways to deal with this. And hey, there is nothing disallowing these characters from taking ranged weapons and plinking away at their foes.
To go back to the party composition. I think it will suffer from mid levels onward. The lack of versatility, battle field control and utility could at some point lead to a TPK. Often in places it will not be obvious to the GM. The AP expect a balanced party.
That said we are having great fun in Kingmaker and Serpents Skull with party's that look a bit dysfunctional. Leaving out arcane utility/control is risky from mid levels upward (they will be awesome in combat though)
That shouldn't matter. Clerics possess an Aura as a class feature. As such, any Cleric should, even if that Aura is "Neutrality" (I have no strong feelings concerning this subject). In addition, their aura would be influenced by how they Channel energy - if it's "positive" or "negative" and even alternative Channeling still is impacted by this.This could be incorrect, but to my knowledge there are no creatures with an 'Alignment subtype' of neutral, which I would imagine means a neutral Cleric can't get any mileage out of the Sacred Summons feat. And neutral Clerics who channel positive energy don't suddenly gain 'Good' auras, do they?
I'd love to be wrong on this.
Technically, the 'Aura' of the Cleric isn't dependent on their alignment, it's dependent on their Deity's alignment. So unless their Deity is True Neutral, they are going to have an alignment aura. Also, unless you are house ruling it, in Golarion, Clerics worship deities, (even if the 'deity' in question isn't actually a full-fledged 'god') otherwise, they aren't Clerics.
If his patron, even unbeknownst to him, is Azathoth, he'd have a Chaotic aura. Azathoth is CN.
Problem solved. =)