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Not sure why you misquoted me Jiggy? I did ask, if I understood him correctly, so you seem to be cutting and pasting to make it look like I'm being unfair to his statement of.you are one of those people who oppose any change because the developers are ALWAYS right?
.....
I don't feel the need to be rude to you
...How about you accept that the developers have a better understanding of balance than you do as a player...
I honestly don't know why you only read one sentence and think to make a judgement on something I wrote. Again, one of the reasons why I feel so defensive, when people misquote me just to twist my words.
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I think there is plenty of love for GL. It just doesn't manifest as 'must make sure all GL options are equal to other options'.
And since I knew I'd be leaving the Lantern Lodge and looking for a Perception Trait after I left, I specifically left that (Lodge) Trait slot open.By that, you mean 'I did not take a faction trait' not 'I only took one trait and left my second unchosen' right? Because you do have to pick two when you start, not one and save one for later.
Correct, I took 2 traits, like everyone else does at lvl. 1.
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The one thing that rings out to me is what Redward said, I have never played a Grand Lodge character, and really have not really looked at their Faction missions, but that would be a definite plus. My very first Shadow Lodge mission required Sleight of Hand, and I was a barbarian with no such inclination, and neither did the other Shadow Lodger in the party.
I had joined the Shadow Lodge out of pure flavor, simply because my character concept was possibly something that could be exploited by the Grand Lodge so Grandmaster Torch took my character into the fold.
So already he is a little behind the curve. I could see that having easier missions to complete might be a draw, but I never would have know by simply looking at it.
Grand Lodge looks like it would be the choice that makes the most sense for either of my characters that have to make the change (one LL and one SL), but simply looking at how boring it looks in terms of prestige awards has been the greatest argument against it.
So I can see Eric's point, but I will likely take Grand Lodge anyway, because it makes the most sense...
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You know, Eric, you could clear this all up by simply explicitly stating that you're looking to take this trait by taking the Additional Traits feat.
You've heavily implied it, but if you explicitly STATE it, it removes any chance of speculation...
Yes to answer your question, I intend to spend a Feat at lvl. 9 to buy 2 traits.
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Sorry, if I'm feeling a bit defensive but the first few replies kinda all went at me from different angles and so I put my shield up.I was snarky in my previous post. I, too, apologize.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Grand Lodge isn't supposed to represent the best of the best or be the Flaghship Lodge.I don't think that is supposed to be the idea at all.
Think less MI6 and more House Hufflepuff.... :)
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The one thing that rings out to me is what Redward said, I have never played a Grand Lodge character, and really have not really looked at their Faction missions, but that would be a definite plus. My very first Shadow Lodge mission required Sleight of Hand, and I was a barbarian with no such inclination, and neither did the other Shadow Lodger in the party.
I had joined the Shadow Lodge out of pure flavor, simply because my character concept was possibly something that could be exploited by the Grand Lodge so Grandmaster Torch took my character into the fold.
So already he is a little behind the curve. I could see that having easier missions to complete might be a draw, but I never would have know by simply looking at it.
Grand Lodge looks like it would be the choice that makes the most sense for either of my characters that have to make the change (one LL and one SL), but simply looking at how boring it looks in terms of prestige awards has been the greatest argument against it.
So I can see Eric's point, but I will likely take Grand Lodge anyway, because it makes the most sense...
A quick check of the Season 3+ Scenarios I have at hand:
Sense Motive
Perception
Knowledge (Local) or Linguistics
Intelligence and Dexterity check or Profession check
Knowledge (Planes)
Complete the scenario
Perception
Complete the scenario
Knowledge (Engineering) or Disable Device
That's a small sample size, and I've personally played relatively few Grand Lodge missions. But from what I've seen, the Grand Lodge missions tend to be pretty straightforward and/or require skills that are generally useful to have anyway.
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Now that everyone's back on topic, the issue as I perceive it, still remains the same. GL is not that great and I wish it would be made better with either better Traits or better boons. Because currently I just don't find it all that tempting, when compared against the other Traits and Boons of other factions (Lodges).
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Now that everyone's back on topic, the issue as I perceive it, still remains the same. GL is not that great and I wish it would be made better with either better Traits or better boons. Because currently I just don't find it all that tempting, when compared against the other Traits and Boons of other factions (Lodges).From a purely mechanical perspective, GL really SHOULDN'T feel "tempting", compared to the other factions, as NO faction should feel "tempting" over the others.
The silver crusade compass is bright and shiny...
Qadira's 10% item discount is pretty sick.
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I think Eric's issue was not that it wasn't tempting, it was more that every other faction was more appealing. I keep seeing posts saying that one faction shouldn't be better than the others, and he seems to be saying that GL is worse than all the others.
But then I am brought back to the "Shadow War" over control of Absalom. It is every other factions JOB to entice you. So in that respect, it kind of makes sense...
(By the way, that was a revelation that I JUST came to as I was writing this response...) ^_^
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Faction should largely be a roleplay choice, not a mechanical choice.Then you think they should give no boons at all?
Please don't put words in my mouth.
The boons, traits and vanities are "cool, I can take that now" options.
They shouldn't be the reason you choose Taldor (unless for some reason the roleplay of your character having chosen--perhaps courted by both Andoran and Cheliax--Taldor is because they offered him something shiny he liked better than the other shiny things offered.)
You should choose Taldor for your character, because he likes the Decadent lifestyle, wants to be a lord, likes being part of the Ulfen Guard, likes hating on Sarenrae, whatever.
But the choice should be a roleplay one, even if you have to manufacture a roleplay reason for taking the faction because of a trait.
Otherwise, you are just a guy with a trait, who happens to do tasks for Gloriana Morilla and that isn't what the faction thing is all about.
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Asking a question /= putting words in your mouth.
So you want boons and vanities and whatnot, but you don't want people to choose them because they might give a good bonus or are cool, you want them to choose the faction for roleplay reasons only
He said 'should largely be a roleplay choice', bolding mine.
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Well, one way to do that is not have any mechanics beyond what type of missions you do for your faction.
He said 'should largely be a roleplay choice', bolding mine.
One way, yes. The fact that you limited your inquiry to that single idea of many is why he thought you were putting words in his mouth.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
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"Loyal servant of the Decemvirate, I urgently need you to ...
... and BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!
For the Society,
Venture-Captain Ambrus Valsin"
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Back on topic, the fact that the Grand Lodge has one of the few "Perception is a class skill" traits (that doesn't require my PC to worship Abadar or have been adopted by dwarven merchants) makes it useful, and if my PC doesn't have Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill I'm not going to put ranks into it anyway. This makes the traits pretty much equal in my mind. Besides, many of my characters would rather be known as "Observant" rather than as a "Tomb Robber". :)
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Not that GL is awful, I have two GL characters, but you have to admit, when directly comparing the vanities available to each... Osirion is WAY better. That being said, This isn't why I choose a faction
I think GL has a great role-play hook... they are where I stick characters who are either estranged from their obvious choice of faction or come from a region without ties to a faction...
For instance I have a Garundi Armor Master who despises the money grubbing ways of Qadira and so he joined the Grand Lodge for a more "noble" pursuit of knowledge.
I have a Mwangi Cleric of Gozreh who joined the Grand Lodge as it was the one that was not representing one of the oppressive nations of the north (His words not mine, he has a thing against pale skinned folk)
I think of the Grand Lodge as kind of Golarion's United Nations...
Just my opinion, and I totally see where the OP is coming from
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You sir, need to start your own Goblin Faction...
Master Garble will start the "Zog" faction once he has collected enough followers. One day our hopes are to rival the illustrious Sczanri faction, but unfortunately, Absalom's finest lately don't seem to send us on many missions that include would-be followers (goblins).