This rule has been the same for 10 long years including the third edition and no one ever complained about "not getting it".
This is not a FAQ request, but the nth attempt to use the FAQ system to change a rule someone does not like.
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- lesser metamagic rods can be used in conjunction with metamagiched 1-3 level spells, even if the modified level is well above third level (like a quickened fireball);
i had no idea people were cheesing out rods.
i thought the rods wording prevented it.A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod's wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.
so quickened fireball should adjust the spell slot from 3rd to 7th so you need a greater rod to empower it.
or empowered fireball should adjust the spell slot from 3rd to 5th, so you need a regular rod to quicken it.
i think the wording is intended to allow you to use rods of the appropriate level with metamagic'ed spells from the caster. but its intending you to have to use a rod of the level appropriate to the metamagic'ed spell slot.
but then they go ahead and say that rods are intended for use with 3rd level spells or lower, 6th level spells or lower, and 9th level spells or lower. instead of referencing spell slots. =P
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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- lesser metamagic rods can be used in conjunction with metamagiched 1-3 level spells, even if the modified level is well above third level (like a quickened fireball);i had no idea people were cheesing out rods.
i thought the rods wording prevented it.A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod's wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.so quickened fireball should adjust the spell slot from 3rd to 7th so you need a greater rod to empower it.
or empowered fireball should adjust the spell slot from 3rd to 5th, so you need a regular rod to quicken it.
i think the wording is intended to allow you to use rods of the appropriate level with metamagic'ed spells from the caster. but its intending you to have to use a rod of the level appropriate to the metamagic'ed spell slot.
but then they go ahead and say that rods are intended for use with 3rd level spells or lower, 6th level spells or lower, and 9th level spells or lower. instead of referencing spell slots. =P
Hmmm... You know, this topic might warrant its own research.
As much as I would love a FAQ response on this, for clarity, the more I think about it the more I think there won't be an answer.
I think this for a few reasons. One being, it has been around for ~4 months, with the most FAQ requests I have ever seen and not a peep while other things are answered. Two, the answer could have long reaching effects that the Dev team may not want to mess with.
If they don't answer, people will make their own decisions in their own games, or ask their GM how he sees it, and play that way. There is a small downside for PFS where it should all be played the same and this ambiguity could cause some problems.
I guess I am in the group that will just ask their GM how he stands on it, and go by that and then when (if) we get an answer maybe revisit it.
Official Rules Response
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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r9w
Metamagic: At what spell level does the spell count for concentration DCs, magus spell recall, or a pearl of power?
The spell counts as the level of the spell slot necessary to cast it.
For example, an empowered burning hands uses a 3rd-level spell slot, counts as a 3rd-level spell for making concentration checks, counts as a 3rd-level spell for a magus's spell recall or a pearl of power.
In general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the caster. The advantages of the metamagic feat are spelled out in the Benefits section of the feat, and the increased spell slot level is a disadvantage.
Heighten Spell is really the only metamagic feat that makes using a higher-level spell slot an advantage instead of a disadvantage.
FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r9w
Metamagic: At what spell level does the spell count for concentration DCs, magus spell recall, or a pearl of power?
The spell counts as the level of the spell slot necessary to cast it.
For example, an empowered burning hands uses a 3rd-level spell slot, counts as a 3rd-level spell for making concentration checks, counts as a 3rd-level spell for a magus's spell recall or a pearl of power.
In general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the caster. The advantages of the metamagic feat are spelled out in the Benefits section of the feat, and the increased spell slot level is a disadvantage.
Heighten Spell is really the only metamagic feat that makes using a higher-level spell slot an advantage instead of a disadvantage.
Would I be out of line to tell you all that I love you?
Yay. Sorry for doubting you Dev Team. I <3 you and your game
Sweet! Thanks PDT!
Metamagic Rods seem deliberately left out of the example. Do you think this is because it is already covered under their description, or because they are ruled differently?
I will probably consider them ruled the same, mainly due to the text:
In general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the caster. The advantages of the metamagic feat are spelled out in the Benefits section of the feat, and the increased spell slot level is a disadvantage.
Metamagic Rods seem deliberately left out of the example.
I had hoped we got an expicit answer oh that too.
As pointed out by Diego:"People constantly cite "In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot." to say that:
- lesser metamagic rods can be used in conjunction with metamagiched 1-3 level spells, even if the modified level is well above third level (like a quickened fireball);"
We even played it that way.
Is metamagic rods an exception or why wasn't this addressed in the FAQ?
Edit:
This is a big nerf on (mainly) the arcane casters, but not necessarily a bad one.
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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r9w
Metamagic: At what spell level does the spell count for concentration DCs, magus spell recall, or a pearl of power?
The spell counts as the level of the spell slot necessary to cast it.
For example, an empowered burning hands uses a 3rd-level spell slot, counts as a 3rd-level spell for making concentration checks, counts as a 3rd-level spell for a magus's spell recall or a pearl of power.
In general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the caster. The advantages of the metamagic feat are spelled out in the Benefits section of the feat, and the increased spell slot level is a disadvantage.
Heighten Spell is really the only metamagic feat that makes using a higher-level spell slot an advantage instead of a disadvantage.
Technically this is errata, but I appreciate it all the same. Thanks for taking the time to address it.
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This seems to have answered the questions (even the Metamagic Rod question). I am happy that Dev team went with the common sense ruling rather than the legalistic interpretation that parses level vs slot. Common sense was much simpler. :)
- Gauss
james maissen, I agree, if the terms were consistently used. Unfortunately, they have not been and at this point it would require a lot of corrections to fix all of the inconsistent uses.
- Gauss
I seems clear to me that a lesser mettamagic rod will not work with a quickened fireball (fore example).
"In general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the casterIn general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the caster"
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This is a great FAQ.
Agree. I read it again and it is pretty clear... and yes it is a good FAQ :)
Good commonsense FAQ.
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Definitely errata.
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Hate to bump an old thread like this, but felt this was the most appropriate place.
I hadn't given it much consideration after this FAQ, but what happens when a caster has chosen Magical Lineage as a trait, selects Shocking Grasp, prepares and intensified shocking grasp. When he prepares it he uses up a 1st level slot, that seems pretty clear. However, I'm unsure of whether he would need a Pearl of Power 1 or 2 to reclaim the spell.
Thoughts?
The only two choices are spell level and slot level. They are both 1... Seems like a first level PoP would be just fine.