It looks like half elves can definitely do this with the Drow Magic alternate racial trait.
The jury seems to be out whether Elves can use Dreamspeaker to qualify. Has this been definitively answered? If not, what is the consensus?
Any other racial abilities using only core races to qualify for early entry to Mystic Theurge?
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If you take the Trickery domain (for the Copycat SLA) and the Fate inquisition (for the Augury SLA), then your first cleric level qualifies you for MT all by itself (aside from the skill ranks, of course), regardless of race.
Similarly, the Divination (Scrying) specialist school for wizards (for the Send Senses SLA) is a race-agnostic way to qualify for the Eldritch Knight.
If you take the Trickery domain (for the Copycat SLA) and the Fate inquisition (for the Augury SLA), then your first cleric level qualifies you for MT all by itself (aside from the skill ranks, of course), regardless of race.
Similarly, the Divination (Scrying) specialist school for wizards (for the Send Senses SLA) is a race-agnostic way to qualify for the Eldritch Knight.
I'm probably missing something obvious, but how does taking the Copycat SLA and the Augury SLA as a cleric qualify you? Wouldn't they both be considered divine in nature since you are getting them as a cleric? How do you meet the arcane part of the requirement?
I'm confused. Even if you qualify with an SLA, the character still needs a level in sorcerer, right? A mystic theurge can't add spellcasting levels if the character doesn't have a spellcasting class, right?
Can clerics take inquisitions?
thanks
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I'm confused. Even if you qualify with an SLA, the character still needs a level in sorcerer, right? A mystic theurge can't add spellcasting levels if the character doesn't have a spellcasting class, right?
Well, there's a difference between "qualifying for" and "actually getting any benefit from". ;)
The SLAs I mentioned meet the casting prereqs; you'll still want at least one level in an arcane spellcasting class to give the MT levels something to advance. So you could go with Cleric2/Wiz1 (or vice-versa), or whatever.Can clerics take inquisitions?
Yes. There's something somewhere that says which deities grant which inquisitions, but I can't remember where. If nothing else, you could pick a deity who grants Trickery and take the Separatist archetype. Or, in a home game, ask your GM if you could be a "concept cleric" with that combination.
Would Copycat really qualify? It's not Mirror Image, its Copycat - a much weaker version of Mirror Image.
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Would Copycat really qualify? It's not Mirror Image, its Copycat - a much weaker version of Mirror Image.
The question was brought up last week, and it was confirmed that it works. I'll try to dig up a link if I get the time, but you could probably find it by searching this forum for "copycat".
I found it. Thanks.
It does beg the other question of whether or not a higher level SLA (such as Dreamspeaker) would qualify you for a lower level per-requisite. Logically, I would think it should.
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It does beg the other question of whether or not a higher level SLA (such as Dreamspeaker) would qualify you for a lower level per-requisite. Logically, I would think it should.
Logic is when two or more premises lead to a conclusion. I'd be curious to know what premises lead to the conclusion of "A spell of (X) level counts as a spell of (not X) level".
;)
= =/= >=
Can clerics take inquisitions?
thanks
Yeah, Found it.
From Ultimate Magic:
While a cleric or other domain-using class can select an inquisition in place of a domain (if appropriate to the character's deity), inquisitions do not grant domain spell slots or domain spells, and therefore are much weaker choices for those classes.
It does beg the other question of whether or not a higher level SLA (such as Dreamspeaker) would qualify you for a lower level per-requisite. Logically, I would think it should.Logic is when two or more premises lead to a conclusion. I'd be curious to know what premises lead to the conclusion of "A spell of (X) level counts as a spell of (not X) level".
;)
I think D'arandriel's point is more of an RAI issue, as in, is "ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells" meant to actually be "ability to cast arcane spells of at least 2nd level."
Obviously RAW it is not. In the rare case where a character gets access to a 3rd level spell without a second level spell, though, I think if I was the GM I might allow it. You're already going for a pretty weird build anyway.
Peet
If you take the Trickery domain (for the Copycat SLA) and the Fate inquisition (for the Augury SLA), then your first cleric level qualifies you for MT all by itself (aside from the skill ranks, of course), regardless of race.
Similarly, the Divination (Scrying) specialist school for wizards (for the Send Senses SLA) is a race-agnostic way to qualify for the Eldritch Knight.
I'm trying to find a deity this would work with but trickery and fate are kind of an unlikely combo.
If you don't mind worshipping an evil god then there are lots of deities with trickery as a domain, but I don't think you can do that in PFS (maybe you can if your character is not evil, not sure about that). For neutral ones there are only Besmara and Calistria. For good there's the Halfling deity Chaldira Zuzaristan.
I don't have the list of inquisitions by deity but I doubt that many of the deities that provide the trickery domain also provide the fate inquisition. It seems like fate would be a lawful concept usually, and the trickery gods tend to be chaotic.
The part in the rule about inquisitions being available to clerics that says "(if appropriate to the character's deity)" would suggest that you have to be a cleric of a deity in order to take an inquisition, rather than being not dedicated to a particular deity as in:
If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval).
Per the FAQ, the arcane/divine nature of an SLA is determined by the spell it's based on, so Copycat (based on mirror image, which is on the sorc/wiz spell list) is arcane.
The FAQ is refering to SLA of creatures and races. I highly doubt that it was intended to mean SLA granted by classes follow that list.
I can see with the way that the FAQ was worded you would think otherwise and I may be wrong, although I will be surprised if I am. I would be interested to others thoughts on this, as I may start a new FAQ to specifically address this.
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No need, GreenMandar. The FAQ thread in question was very explicit about the source of the SLAs–Copycat was the lead example–, and Sean K Reynolds weighed in post-FAQ to re-iterate.
Copycat grants an arcane SLA of 2nd level.
I was surprised (you'll see my very wrong prediction a few posts into that thread), but them's the rules!
That thread is about determining the spell level of a SLA. Unless I overlooked it, whether SLAs based on a class ability would count the opposite of what the class is in regards to arcane/divine wasn't addressed. If it was, can you copy or link to the exact post?
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That thread is about determining the spell level of a SLA. Unless I overlooked it, whether SLAs based on a class ability would count the opposite of what the class is in regards to arcane/divine wasn't addressed. If it was, can you copy or link to the exact post?
Oh yes, sorry. This FAQ thread should provide the answer to that. I know it's racial SLAs rather than class-based SLAs, but the important part (it seems to me) is the consistent rule on which "version" of a spell is used.
The Design Team has been consistent in their stance that the default for SLAs is arcane. And when you look at those two FAQs together, it doesn't look like the fact that a particular SLA is granted by a Cleric class feature is enough to change that.
Keep in mind that the the Design Team has already ruled (see that thread and the linked SKR comments) that Aasimar SLAs are not automatically divine, which is another case in which we might otherwise think (I did, before I saw their answer) that the source is "divine enough."
Taking those all together is why I don't see it as especially problematic that a Cleric domain grants an arcane SLA. But I can see where you're coming from. So if you're still not sold, start up an FAQ thread and please link it here so I can dot it. But my guess is it'll get answered "Answered in FAQ." :-)
Remember that SLAs from divine classes are considered divine SLAs, so this trick no longer works.
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@foolofcheese:
@Lifat:
That doesn't work. The Trickery domain counts as Divine, because you're getting the SLA from a divine spellcasting class.
Spell-Like Abilities: How do I know whether a spell-like ability is arcane or divine?
The universal monster rules for spell-like abilities states: "Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order."
For spell-like abilities gained from a creature's race or type (including PC races), the same rule should apply: the creature's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.
For spell-like abiities gained from a class, use the spell type (arcane or divine) of that class to determine whether the spell-like ability is arcane or divine. If the class doesn't cast spells, use the above rule for spell-like abilities from race or type.
Edit 7/15/13: Wording changed match the precedent in the universal monster rules for spell-like abilities.
Edit 9/23/13: Wording updated to clarify racial/type SLAs vs. class SLAs.
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Level 3 arcane doesn't help you. It's been ruled in this FAQ that spells are not inclusive. Just because you can cast level 3 spells doesn't mean you can cast level 2 spells, and therefore Scryer/Aasimar-Daylight doesn't let you qualify for Mystic Theurge.
The variant Aasimar heritages have (except for Nature's Ally) level 2 arcane spells, so those do work.
As for the OP: Dreamspeaker doesn't work because being able to cast a level 5 spell doesn't mean you can also cast level 2 spells.