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So I was thinking about the upcoming Mummy's Mask adventure path, and well, of course I started thinking about the old 2e kit "sha'ir", and pulled out the 3e update from Dragon as well. I think there are some problems to the current implementations and I think we could take a look at the class together, polish it up and balance it in time for February.
In addition to the original 2e writeup by Jeff Grubb (in Arabian Adventures and the 3e writeup by Dean Poisso (in Dragon #315), here's been some work done by Nate Christen at Piazza forums in 2008 and William Senn at our own Paizo forums in 2009 that bears consideration.
One of my personal preferences is for the mechanics to stay as close as possible to the original, except when it would be detrimental to fun or balance.
The original 2e writeup was basically a wizard who, instead of memorizing spells, sends her familiar (called a gen) to "retrieve" spells for her -- the gen is gone a random number of rounds, minutes or hours depending on the difficulty, and when it returns, the sha'ir can cast the spell. Obviously, the mechanics of this spell retrieval are of paramount importance, because it is the only way that the sha'ir can cast spells, and considering her combat skills, be of any real use altogether.
Here's how it originally works in 2e. The base chance to retrieve a spell is 50%. It is then modified by:
+5% per sha'ir level
-10% per spell level
+10% if spell is "general knowledge"
-30% if spell is divine (or an unlisted arcane)
-10% per previous failure to retrieve that specific spell during the same day
In addition to this, the chance caps at 90% (well, 89% to be exact) so that there's always a 10% chance of failure.
Now, each 3e implementation I've seen has some reason why I feel the need to have one more implementation. The Dragon conversion by Poisso makes it a Diplomacy check *with* a class level bonus. That means every time you level, any sensible sha'ir puts a rank into Diplo, thus getting +2/level to the roll which increases the chance by 10% per level instead of the original 5%. This leads to rapidly outpacing the difficulty that you can quickly cast pretty much everything you want with a decent chance. A 10th level sha'ir already has a 10% chance to cast a 9th level spell, and at 12th level it's already a 30% chance. Christen's conversion leaves the roll percentage-based instead of converting it to the more familiar DC system of 3e. And Senn totally changed things so that you retrieve entire batches of spells at once.
The 10% increase per level could be removed by making the retrieval a simple level check, which would then follow exactly the 2e implementation, a flat 5% increase per level, but it would also mean that there would be no variation between sha'irs of the same level, which can be a little unfun, as you end up not feeling like your choices matter at all for your most important class feature. If you want your choices to matter a *little* bit, you could make it d20 + level + Cha mod, which would still mostly follow the 5% pace, but it would allow the Cha score to matter and differentiate characters. A third option would be to keep it a Diplomacy roll, but remove the level bonus. I'm not too partial to this, because it would make players feel like they were forced to keep a certain skill maxed, no matter whether they wanted that skill for their character concept or not. It would be basically a mandatory place to spend a skill point each level. I'm also not so wild about this option because it feels a little odd that you'd be rolling Diplomacy when you're not even present to speak at the locale where the retrieval is happening. Also, making the roll Diplomacy-based would mean that you could collect a huge amount of bonuses with Skill Focus, feat bonuses, trait bonuses and so on, and you could end up being able to cast way overpowered spells. So I think my choice would be the second one, to treat the spell retrieval as d20 + Cha mod + level, with a natural 1 or 2 always being failures.
The DC I think should be set according to a fairly normal, non-minmaxed character. So, in 2e, a 1st level sha'ir casting a 1st level spell has a 55% chance for a "general knowledge" spell like magic missile. I think it would be reasonable to assume a 16 Charisma for a normal non-optimized PC sha'ir, so the Cha mod would be +3. A 55% chance equals rolling 10-20, so a natural 10 would still succeed. Factor in the +3 Cha mod and the +1 level bonus, and you end up with a DC 14. I first thought about rounding it to 15, but then I thought of the fact that the DC increases by 10%, or +2, every spell level, so starting at DC 14 would mean reaching a nice round DC 30 for the final 9th level spells. There's some elegance to that.
lvl 1 spell = DC 14
lvl 2 spell = DC 16
lvl 3 spell = DC 18
lvl 4 spell = DC 20
lvl 5 spell = DC 22
lvl 6 spell = DC 24
lvl 7 spell = DC 26
lvl 8 spell = DC 28
lvl 9 spell = DC 30
+6 DC if the spell is divine
+2 DC for previous same-day failures for that specific spell
+2 DC if the spell is not "general knowledge"
I'm inclined to eliminate the last one because the "general knowledge" qualification can be very nebulous. In the original 2e implementation, it encompassed "all 1st- and 2nd-level wizard spells shown in Appendix A", which was more or less the PHB spells plus some setting-specific spells. And an arbitrary line between 2nd and 3rd level spells feels...well, arbitrary. I believe that the intent of the rule is that it's easier to retrieve spells that are familiar to you, and I can agree with implementing that somehow, but I think it needs a better delineation. The sha'ir needs some kind of list of spell that are "favored" (for lack of a better word), and spells outside that get the +2DC penalty. But how to delineate the list? "All Core Rulebook spells" are favored? Or maybe the spells should be limited by school or schools? Or even descriptor -- what if the favored list consisted of all spells with an elemental descriptor? Since the gen goes to the elemental planes to retrieve spells, it could make sense that the easiest spells to find there would be elemental ones. So, how about we replace the last one with
+2 DC if the spell does not have an elemental descriptor
In which "elemental" would encompass earth, fire, air, water and arguably things like electricity, cold, and acid?
So right now, we would have
+0DC arcane elemental
+2DC arcane non-elemental
+6DC divine elemental
+8DC divine non-elemental
whereas 2e is, effectively
+0DC if the spell is arcane "general knowledge"
+2DC if the spell is arcane non-"general knowledge"
+8DC if the spell is divine
So it's pretty close to the original except that a divine spell with the elemental descriptor is 2 DC easier. Let's run some tests:
Lvl 1 Sha'ir, Cha 16
2e burning hands [fire]: 55% chance = natural 10+ = DC 14
Proposed burning hands: DC 14
2e magic missile: 55% chance = DC 14
Proposed magic missile: DC 14 +2DC for no elemental descriptor = DC 16
2e produce flame [fire]: 15% = natural 18+ = DC 22
Proposed produce flame: DC 14 +6DC for divine = DC 20
2e cure light wounds: 15% = DC 22
Proposed cure light wounds: DC 14 +6DC for divine +2DC for no elemental descriptor = DC 22
Of course, we could just throw away all this dicking around, and just separate by arcane and divine and leave it at that. I'll have to think about it.
Next up: gen's retrieval times
Dot!
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When the sha'ir sends her gen to retrieve a spell from the elemental planes, it returns and imbues the sha'ir with the ability to cast the spell after a certain period of time. The duration is split into three categories:
* Arcane class A ("more familiar") - rounds
* Arcane class B ("less familiar") - minutes
* Divine - hours
In the original 2e implementation, the roll was always 1d6 + 1/spell level, and whether it was rounds, minutes or hours depended on the above classification as noted. Poisso's conversion followed the same three-tier separation, though he shortened the arcane class A to 1d4 instead of 1d6. I don't see any pressing reason to do so, so I personally feel that I'm going to keep it at 1d6. The separation between classes A and B were in Poisso's implementation based on a "spells known" system, where the sha'ir would have a number of freely chosen spells, much like a sorcerer, as the pool from which she could draw her "more familiar" spells. I'm not a fan of that approach, where a 1st level sha'ir has all of three first level spells that she has easy access to, whereas the 2e sha'ir had literally dozens of first level spells in the easiest category.
It can be argued that having basically spontaneous access to every sor/wiz spell can be overpowering, but I think the duration and the fizzle chance mitigate at least partially. Because the sha'ir only has one gen to send, and can't send the gen for a new spell until the first one has been used, that basically means, on the average, 5 round waiting times between casting 1st level spells, and longer with higher level spells. In effect, the gen retrieval becomes a "cooldown" mechanism for the sha'ir's spells.
An optional retrieval mechanic I've toyed with is that, instead of rolling 1d6+spell level when the gen is sent to retrieve the spell, and then the DM keeping that number secret until the gen returns, the player could roll at the beginning of each turn whether her gen returns or not, against some DC. This would reduce DM bookkeeping and would increase player participation. This would be a step away from how things worked in 2e, however, which is why I'm considering it optional. Getting a distribution that mimics the 1-6 range with consecutive d20 rolls, one way is starting at DC 18 and then lowering the DC by one every round until the retrieval succeeds. That way, you have a 15% chance of getting the gen back on the first try, and an 86% chance that it returns by the sixth try. I'm thinking there probably shouldn't be any modifiers to the plain d20 roll, because any bonuses or penalties will skew things pretty fast and you end up with a really big likelihood of the gen returning really fast or really slowly. The player would only start rolling after the minimum, i.e. equal to spell level rounds has passed. So, as an example, sending gen to get magic missile, nothing happens the round after the sending, and the second round you'd roll d20 versus DC 18, for a 15% chance that the gen returns on the second round.
Or, you could just roll 1d6+splvl rounds/minutes/hours.
It's also notable that divine probably should be kept godawfully long. One of Mr. Senn's objections was that they're practically impossible to use because it takes so long to retrieve them, but I believe this should be so. An arcane caster having access to heal or raise dead shouldn't be a multiple times a day thing. Having to send your gen away for possibly 11 hours and being basically helpless for the duration means you end up only using divine spells on downtime days, by and large, which I think is a good thing.
well, it's certainly an interesting class... Puts a nice different spin on how spells are obtained and cast. Having a pathfinder adaptation of it would be nice, but I don't have much input on the stuff you were considering.
(in other words, dot)
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The "easy vs hard arcane spells" dilemma is somewhat problematic, how to implement the separation. I'm personally not a fan of drawing up explicit spell lists because I'm the sort of OCD who would have to update them every time new spells were published in any product, so I prefer more elegant solutions that immediately let you know which spells qualify, among those already published *and* those that will be published in the future.
Having said that, I don't see any problems with having two different approaches demonstrated in this thread, and people can decide for themselves what they like. Anybody interested in drawing up the sha'ir spell list?
I wouldn't mind taking a stab at it, but I won't have the free time until tomorrow night, so if someone has the opportunity before then don't wait on me.
"You polish a turd, it'a still a turd!" - Peanut
I don't really mean that, but couldn't resist because of the thread title. Keep up the good work.
I loved Al-Qadim (apparently one of the few). I believe the best model for a Sha'ir like spell system would be that of Spirit Shaman in 3.5. I would suggest starting there for basics.
Yup. They send their Spirit Guide to collect spells for them.
The Daivrat prestige class gets one spell per day by this method, interestingly.
Dot!Ditto.
+2.
(It was a 3.0 conversion for the Sha'ir class [and Hakima class] that finally got me hooked on 3.X, convincing me that 3.X could do anything worth doing in D&D. So I will be VERY much interested in seeing the polished result.)
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Mogre, Spirit Shaman was a good call. It's pretty damn close to a divine sha'ir. The major difference is that the SpS has to pre-select her available spells at the beginning of the day instead of having complete freedom like the sha'ir. It could be construed that the complete freedom does make the sha'ir overpowered in comparison. Having said that, the SpS has a lot of other abilities on top of the relatively free spellcasting, and it's 3.5 so a Pathfinder class should be slightly more powerful. I'm going to, for the time being, stick with not restricting the sha'ir's original freedom with spell selection.
Having said that, I do think it is reasonable to limit the sha'ir's spell *quantity* rather than selection. The spell retrieval mechanism functions as a "cooldown" which lets the sha'ir get off one, maybe two spells per fight, which isn't a lot per encounter and would hardly unbalance such short-period situations. But, if we consider over an entire day's worth of time, the sha'ir can take any one of her "familiar" spells, and cast it a couple of times a minute, *indefinitely*. That means that working on it the entire day, a sha'ir and her gen could, for example, cast endure elements on more than a *thousand people* each day. Or be a super-repairperson by casting make whole on a thousand+ items per day. I doubt that, even in 2e, this was intended.
One could probably draw up a table for the sha'ir's spells per day from scratch, but until one of us has the time to do that, let's run with the sha'ir being able to cast as many spells per day as...what? Wiz? Sor? She could be more like the Wiz because of her wide freedom and not being narrowly focused like the Sor. Or maybe having the wizard's versatility (and then some), but being limited by cooldown would be such a strong drawback to warrant a number of spells closer to Sor? Or, we could just accept the sha'ir's own spells per day table in Poisso's Dragon Mag conversion, there is one there. I'm open to thoughts on this one. But as explained above, I do think a spells per day limitation of some kind should be implemented.
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The spellcasting is obviously the big thing with the sha'ir, but let's take a look at some of the other things the class has.
3rd: Recognize genie work
5th: Summon jann
7th: Elemental protection
9th: Summon genie (djinn, efreeti, marid, dao)
11th: Genie companion
13th: Craft genie prison
15th: Travel to elemental planes at will
17th: Audience with genie ruler
That's a not-inconsiderable arsenal. Of note is that in 2e, they are all at odd levels. In Pathfinder, we get feats at all odd levels, so I think it would be nicer to shift these by one level so that you'd get either a feat or class ability at every level. Question is, shift up or down? I'm inclined to say shift them up, to hedge bets against the genie summoning powers being overpowered. Summoning an efreeti etc. is probably an ability better obtained at level 12 than 10.
Right off the top, I should say that I think Poisso's call in modeling the summoning abilities with planar ally is brilliant. The level the sha'ir gets the ability tracks very closely with when a cleric would gain access to the spell. To wit:
Summon jann: 5th level ability for sha'ir, shifted to 6th for Pathfinder. lesser planar ally is a 4th level cleric spell, meaning that the cleric gains access at level 7. How perfect is that? But wait, there's more. The spell summons an outsider of 6HD or less. Guess how many HD a jann has? That's right, 6HD. How perfect is that? The spell is like tailor made to model the sha'ir's summon ability.
Summon genie: 9th level ability for sha'ir, shifted to 10th for Pathfinder. planar ally is a 6th level cleric spell, meaning that the cleric gains access at level 11. How perfect is that? But wait, there's more. The spell summons *one or two* (explicitly stated) outsiders totalling no more than 12HD. Guess how many HD the djinn, efreeti, marid and dao have? They all fit between 7-12, meaning that the spell can summon one and only one of them, *and* furthermore, the spell *can* summon two jann because they total 12HD. This is *exactly* in line with 2e, in which this ability allows you to call one genie or two jann. How perfect is this?
More later...
This thread is making me want to break out the Al Qadim guide... One of the nicest TSR books ever, production-wise, IMO. =)
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My experience with the Sha'ir back in the day was that all of your allies would generally have mage armor (those that didn't already have better real armor), and you could pretty much always have stoneskin up, but, other than that, in combat, you got to cast whatever you had already called up. I never had a combat last long enough to summon a second spell.
Removing the ability to potentially cast a dozen mage armor spells (at least until you've failed enough to not be able to anymore...), but leaving in the 'you will cast one spell per combat, ever' limitation seems like it would render the class somewhat pointless. Might as well play a wizard who can only cast one spell per combat, since the spell has to be chosen before combat anyway, and, even worse than a wizard able to only cast one spell per combat, a sha'ir also will only have a single 'spell prepared' per combat, so if he called up a fireball, and the group is attacked by hell hounds, he's basically got nothing, while a wizard might have a half-dozen or even several dozen other options to choose from.
I could see just eliminating the random time to summon entirely, and have spells arrive 1 round after being called for (but also eliminating the ability to remember a spell for a hour, or several hours, after calling it), so that this variation on a sha'ir would miss the first round of combat (having to send his gen off to fetch his first spell), but be able to cast a spell every round thereafter, *if* he makes each of the rolls (failed rolls equal wasted rounds, adding a second downside to being able to summon up the exact spells needed for a specific encounter). The 1 round lag, and the chance of failure (and therefore wasted rounds) *should* be adequate to balance out the versatility of being able to call for potentially any spell on the sorcerer/wizard list. As with the old sha'ir, failing to call a spell not only wastes a round, but also makes it harder to try again, so the *potential* to cast a thousand mage armor spells on your army of commoners might exist, but, in practice, it will never happen, since a 1 always fails, and you'll be reducing your chance of success 5% each time you do.
Tweaking the spell list to make conjuration spells, illusion spells, enchantment spells and air/earth/fire/water/cold spells (stuff that would be associated with elementals and genies) count as 'general knowledge' spells for the sha'ir, and all others 15% harder to call up (or whatever), could be one way of tailoring (and weakening) the access to 'all sorcerer/wizard spells,' without the annoyance of trying to make a point-by-point specific spell list that would require updating every time a new product came out.
Eliminating the ability entirely to call up divine spells would probably be the best bet, and any sorcerer/wizard spell called up would be treated as the spell level that it is on the sorcerer/wizard list, regardless of what level it is on the bard, summoner, etc. lists.
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My experience with the Sha'ir back in the day was that all of your allies would generally have mage armor (those that didn't already have better real armor), and you could pretty much always have stoneskin up, but, other than that, in combat, you got to cast whatever you had already called up. I never had a combat last long enough to summon a second spell.
Seriously? A first level spell has a two round cooldown 17% of the time. A second level spell has a three round cooldown 17% of the time. You've *never* had a combat last longer than two or three rounds? Either your groups have run really little combat, or you've been super super super unlucky.
Removing the ability to potentially cast a dozen mage armor spells (at least until you've failed enough to not be able to anymore...), but leaving in the 'you will cast one spell per combat, ever' limitation seems like it would render the class somewhat pointless.
I think the potential for one single character to cast literally hundreds of spells per day has enormous risks to be gamebreaking. I have to say I strongly feel that there does need to be some sort of cap. And having the cooldown doesn't mean that you will have the *effect* of a single spell per combat. Whenever the party has time to prepare for a combat, the sha'ir is an incredibly useful tool, because she can cast multiple spells with hour durations, a couple with minute durations, prepare one immediate spell for the beginning of combat, and after the first round send the gen for a second one. As an example scenario, a sha'ir could give mage armors to three people, then protection from evil and enlarge person to the main melee character, shield to herself, then while the relatively long durations for those are ticking out, she can prepare magic missile for the first round of combat because it works against practically anything, and after combat begins and she casts the MM, she can usually have the next spell -- which would be perfectly tailored to the opponents -- in usually 4-5 rounds. That's a lot of utility the sha'ir can do for a single fight. Now imagine she could do that for *every single fight* over the course of a day. She could keep *all* spells with hour/lvl durations up for the *entire party* for more or less the *entire day*. Or consider out-of-combat utility spells. Without any sort of cap, the party will effectively have a detect secret doors in *every* room they ever go to, they can get knock for every single lock they ever encounter, they can have invisibility for the entire party, and while infiltrating an enemy lair they can use detect thoughts an infinite amount of times. Now consider being able to do *all* of that, as a third level sha'ir. I really think it's warranted to have a cap.
Might as well play a wizard who can only cast one spell per combat, since the spell has to be chosen before combat anyway, and, even worse than a wizard able to only cast one spell per combat, a sha'ir also will only have a single 'spell prepared' per combat, so if he called up a fireball, and the group is attacked by hell hounds, he's basically got nothing, while a wizard might have a half-dozen or even several dozen other options to choose from.
But a wizard is stuck with what she memorized at the beginning of the day. In the eventuality that a surprising encounter happens that the wizard isn't prepared for, she's more or less screwed, whereas the sha'ir will always be able to pull out the perfect spell no matter what opponent shows up. Spontaneous access to the entire sor/wiz list is a pretty big deal.
Also consider that unlike in 2e, in Pathfinder we can have, in addition to the class ability, *feats* to improve the sha'ir further. There could be feats to shorten the spell retrieval times, feats to be able to hold two spells ready at once, feats to learn a single spell so that it needs no retrieval, and so on. There could be many ways to mitigate the shortcomings of the sha'ir. Keeping that in mind, I don't think we should evaluate the featless sha'ir in a vacuum, but also consider a realistic built sha'ir, with sha'ir feats and all.
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3rd level ability: Recognize genie work
The 2e implementation is a flat 5% chance per level, so a first level sha'ir would have a 5% chance and a 20th level sha'ir would have a 100% chance, period, no modifiers. Poisso models this as a Knowledge (planes) DC 20 check, with a +1 bonus per sha'ir level. Like with the spell retrieval roll, Poisso's implementation has the chance rise by 10%/level instead of the intended 5%, because you get +1 from both your level going up, *and* your Knowledge (planes) highly likely going up. So like with the spell retrieval, I think one of them has to go. Unlike with spell retrieval, here I'm tending towards removing the class level bonus and just modeling it as a straight Knowledge check. The fact that it is a skill that you yourself actively use, rather than something the gen does on the elemental planes without your supervision -- it feels more appropriate to model this thing with the skill system. Furthermore, if you have a really low (by not spending points on the skill) or really high bonus (by keeping the skill maxed and gathering feat bonuses), this ability is far less gamebreaking than a super-buffed ability to retrieve feats. So, Knowledge check like Poisso, but *not* the class level bonus. That gives the average sha'ir that 5% increase per level.
Then let's consider the DC. Poisso set it at 20. Let's consider an average third level sha'ir (because you gain this ability at lvl 3) -- 6 ranks, and an Int bonus of...what, +1 or +2? Int is not the primary casting stat, and Dex and Con will probably take priority over it, too, so I think we could say that the average sha'ir would probably have about +1 Int bonus, give or take one. That gives a +7 bonus, so that 13-20 rolls would succeed. That's a 40% chance right there, as compared with 2e's 15% chance at level 3. I think we should maybe up the DC a little. In order to have that same 15% chance, the threshold would be a natural 18, +7 skill, for a DC of 25. That's a nice round number. Sold!
Instead of making a detailed writeup for how the spell works, I think we already have plenty of detect spells in the game so that we could model the ability with one of them. Say, "This ability works like detect magic with the following exceptions. For skill checks you can choose to substitute Knowledge (planes). If a genie is present, its aura is moderate if the genie has 6HD or less, strong if it has 7-12HD and overwhelming if it has 13HD or more. If there are items or spell effects present that were created by a genie, their aura strength is one less than the originating genie's."
5th level ability: Summon jann
9th level ability: Summon genie
As I've already mentioned earlier, I think these are modeled perfectly by the ability to cast 1/day lesser planar ally and planar ally, but limited only to genies.
7th level ability: Elemental protection
In the original 2e, it goes more or less as follows. Save vs. elements +2, elemental attacks -2 to hit and damage reduced by 2 points per die. Double against the element your gen is from. Survive on elemental planes <class level> minutes.
There's a conspicuous gap in sha'ir abilities at level 2, so I was thinking maybe a lesser version of this there -- 1, and 2 against the gen's element. That of course raises the question, what about higher resistances at higher levels? Since the gap between the two is six levels, let's go six levels further up -- we find lvl 14. And six levels further up again, 20 -- sounds perfect for a capstone ability? How about lvl 14 -- resist 5 and 10 for gen's element, and lvl 20 -- resist 10 and immunity for gen's element? Too much?
Next up, genie companion...
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11th level ability: Genie companion
I think this might be best modeled with the monster cohort rules. The existing rules give CR 6-7 cohorts to 11th level characters, CR 7-8 to 13th level characters and CR 8-10 to 14th level characters. Genies range from CR 5-9. With bumping class abilities to even levels, this would be a 12th level ability, but I'm considering whether I should instead make it a 14th level ability because the high end genies like marid is CR 9, which is a bit high for a 12th level character according to the monster cohort rules. One option would be to separate the low CR genies and high CR genies to separate levels, so that you would gain a djinn or shaitan at level 12, and you would gain an efreeti or marid at level 14. It seems a bit complicated though and I think I'd like to avoid that solution if possible.
Looking at the table for the leadership feat, at level 12 and +0 Cha mod you could have an 8th level character as a cohort. But sha'irs rarely have a +0 Cha mod because it's their primary casting stat. I think it's not pushing it to say that a 12th level sha'ir could often have +5 Cha mod or even more. That would push us to scores 17+ on the leadership table, which would mean that a typical lvl 12 character with +5 Cha mod would have cohorts of level 12 or even higher. Well, actually level 11 because your cohort always must be lower level. But, even a level 11 cohort is arguably very much on par with the highest level genie, marid at CR 9. So I think if a 12th level character could have an 11th level cohort, I don't think it would be gamebreaking to give them a CR 9 cohort. So I think it's okay to keep all the genie companions together as a 12th level ability, and it might not even be all that tough of an ability considering it's basically only half a feat (although I'm sure many would argue leadership in itself is overpowered for a feat).
For reference, Poisso's conversion omitted this (long-term servant) ability entirely, and instead bumped the planar ally and lesser planar ally abilities from lvls 5 & 9 to lvls 7 & 11.
13th level ability: Craft genie prison
There's like a page and a half of fluff in 2e on how this ability works, but I think Poisso hit the nail on the head when he chose to just model this as an iron flask that only works on geniekind. This way all the mechanics can be taken from the wondrous item description and in the class ability we only need to modify it slightly.
One thing I might add that Poisso didn't have is that I think there should be some benefit if you already had the Craft Wondrous Items feat, because in that case you basically just gain the ability to craft an inferior item, and nothing else, so kind of robbing you entirely of that level's class ability. Maybe something like, if you also have the feat in addition to the class ability, then you can craft the genie prisons for half price and half time?
15th level ability: Elemental travel
In 2e, this is modeled as an Int check that, if passed, travels you to an elemental plane of your choice and grants the ability to survive there for <class level> days. You can also take along <class level> passengers. I think Poisso is right again when he models this with the plane shift spell. One change he made, though, was break it into parts so that you gain 1/day at lvl 9, 2/day at lvl 15, and at will at lvl 18. A cleric gains this spell at lvl 9, so the lowest version is not at a gamebreakingly low level, at lvl 9 a party could be expected to have access to planar travel. I think the exact levels could be tweaked a little, to buff up "boring" levels where you don't get much else in the way of class abilities, but by and large I think using plane shift is a good solution here.
17th level ability: Audience with genie ruler
I think this one would be difficult to model mechanically and might just be best as a fluff text that basically states you have the ability to contact genie rulers, get the details from your DM.
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A quick and dirty rough first sketch of level progression
Level 1: Gen familiar
Level 2: Resist elements 2/1
Level 3:
Level 4: Detect genie
Level 5:
Level 6: Lesser planar ally (jann)
Level 7:
Level 8: Resist elements 4/2
Level 9: Plane shift 1/day
Level 10: Planar ally (djinn, shaitan, efreeti, marid)
Level 11:
Level 12: Genie cohort (djinn, shaitan, efreeti, marid)
Level 13: Plane shift 2/day
Level 14: Resist elements 10/5
Level 15:
Level 16: Plane shift at will
Level 17:
Level 18: Contact noble genie
Level 19:
Level 20: Resist elements immunity/10, gain outsider type
Liking the fact that everyone is refreshing the Sha'ir class!
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Potential Sha'ir Feats
Hold Spell
You are able to send your gen to retrieve a new spell without expending the one it previously brought you.
Prerequisites: A gen.
Benefit: You can send your gen to retrieve a new spell while retaining the ability to cast a previous one. When the gen returns, it will hold the new spell ready for you to cast. You can choose to cast either spell first. After you cast one of the spells, the other one either remains held by you, or is passed on to you by the gen, and the gen becomes free to retrieve a new spell. Under no circumstances can the gen be sent to retrieve a third spell while it is holding one. If the gen is sent to retrieve a new spell while holding one, it immediately loses the ability to hold a spell, but you can choose either of the spells to hold for yourself.
Normal: You can only send your gen to retrieve a new spell after you have expended the previous one.
Rapid Retrieval
Your gen is faster than most of its kind at retrieving spells.
Prerequisites: A gen.
Benefit: When rolling for how long a gen's spell retrieval takes, your gen only rolls 1d4 + spell level instead of 1d6 + spell level.
Rapid Dispatch
Your genie is very quick at understanding orders.
Prerequisites: A gen.
Benefit: Sending your gen to retrieve a spell is a standard action instead of a full-round action.
Rapid Dispatch, Improved
You can't even finish your sentence before your gen is already off.
Prerequisites: A gen, Rapid Dispatch.
Benefit: Sending your gen to retrieve a spell is now a move-equivalent action.
Genie-Friend
Your name is respected among geniekind.
Benefit: You receive a +4 bonus on Diplomacy rolls with geniekind.
Planar Traveler
You have broadened your horizons and learned how to travel beyond the elemental planes.
Prerequisites: Plane shift class ability.
Benefit: Your plane shift class ability is no longer restricted to the elemental planes.
Elemental Ward
Your gen helps you ward off elemental attacks.
Prerequisites: A gen, elemental resistance class ability.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on any saving throws against elemental effects. Against the element that your gen represents, the bonus increases to +4.
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Student of the Seas
Through close association with your aquatic gen, familiar or animal companion, you have made water your second home.
Prerequisites: A sea gen familiar, or a familiar or animal companion with a swim speed.
Benefit: You get a +4 competence bonus on Swim checks. If your gen, familiar or animal companion is within 5', the bonus increases to +8. Swim becomes a class skill for you.
Master of the Seas
Your connection with your sea gen is so close that you practically become one with the water.
Prerequisites: Student of the Seas, a sea gen, sha'ir level 9+.
Benefit: You gain the aquatic subtype and a swim speed equal to your land speed.
Sea Lungs
You have learned from your gen how to breathe water.
Prerequisites: Student of the Seas, a sea gen.
Benefit: You receive the water breathing extraordinary ability. You can still breathe normally on land as well.
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Student of the Sands
When in the desert, your gen, familiar or animal companion is invaluable to you.
Prerequisites: A sand gen, or a familiar or animal companion with a burrowing speed.
Benefit: You get a +4 competence bonus on Survival checks made while in a desert. You leave no tracks unless you choose to, as per the druid's trackless step ability, but only in a desert. Survival becomes a class skill for you.
Master of the Sands
With the aid of your sand gen, you have become completely attuned to the desert.
Prerequisites: Student of the Sands, a sand gen, sha'ir level 9+.
Benefit: You can survive without food and water indefinitely.
Sand Vision
Sandstorms do not blind you.
Prerequisites: Student of the Sands, A sand gen.
Benefit: You see normally in a sandstorm up to a distance of 60' and do not receive the -4 Perception penalty.
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Student of the Winds
Your wind gen helps steady your flight.
Prerequisites: A wind gen, or a familiar or animal companion with a fly speed.
Benefit: You get a +4 competence bonus on Fly checks. If your gen, familiar or animal companion is within 5', the bonus increases to +8. Fly becomes a class skill for you.
Master of the Winds
The winds are your friends and make aerial movement easier for you.
Prerequisites: Student of the Winds, a wind gen, sha'ir level 9+.
Benefit: When using any mode of flight, if your maneuverability class is not perfect then it increases by one.
Windfall
Whenever you fall, the winds will always catch you.
Prerequisites: Student of the Winds, a wind gen.
Benefit: You receive the benefits of a permanent feather fall spell, and no longer take damage from falls from any height. You can suppress and reactivate this ability at will as an immediate action.
Check out the Zhyen Familiar that the Daivrat gets, would that be similar to the Gen at all?
Sha'ir in my experience were always buying wands and scrolls whenever possible to get around the retrieval time lag. I don't have the books in front of me, so maybe this was a house rule, but sha'ir had to have seen a given spell cast before they could send their gen to retrieve it in our game, other than 1st level, common arcane spells.
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Sha'ir in my experience were always buying wands and scrolls whenever possible to get around the retrieval time lag.
That was my experience as well. With a 1 in 6 chance of *maybe* getting your lowest level fastest-calling spell soon enough to use it in the same combat, the main reason to call for a spell was to get the Gen out of combat for the duration, so that it couldn't get killed.
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That was my experience as well. With a 1 in 6 chance of *maybe* getting your lowest level fastest-calling spell soon enough to use it in the same combat
No, seriously. I meant it when I asked it earlier. Your combats are always (or very often) over in 2-3 rounds? Because if your combats run like 5-15 rounds like mine do, there's no problem at all with getting a couple spells off per fight.
Sha'ir in my experience were always buying wands and scrolls whenever possible to get around the retrieval time lag. I don't have the books in front of me, so maybe this was a house rule, but sha'ir had to have seen a given spell cast before they could send their gen to retrieve it in our game, other than 1st level, common arcane spells.
1st and 2nd level were available that way, but yes, you had to see spells before being able to retrieve them. But that's a pretty poor limitation, IMO, because you can just go around paying NPC wizards to cast a spell so you can watch, and bam, all done. It's a randomization factor, it randomizes what spells a given sha'ir might have, but it doesn't prevent them from accessing anything they really want to have.
And I'm not sure I like the idea of a class having to constantly spend gold just to "keep up" with the rest of the party. Tossing a huge money sink at the sha'ir without a corresponding one for other classes seems off to me.
Check out the Zhyen Familiar that the Daivrat gets, would that be similar to the Gen at all?
Seems quite similar indeed. Odds are it's the closest to a Gen in any official Pathfinder product.
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<intro fluff>
<intro fluff>
<intro fluff>
<intro fluff>
Role: <fluff>
Alignment: As wizard.
Hit Die: As wizard.
Base Attack Bonus: As wizard.
Saving Throws: As wizard.
The sha'ir's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Profession (Wis) and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Ranks per Level: As wizard.
The following are the class features of the sha'ir.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As wizard.
Spells: A sha'ir primarily casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a sha'ir must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sha'ir's spell is 10 + the spell level + the sha'ir's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a sha'ir can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is equal to the sorcerer. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.
A sha'ir may know any number of spells. She begins play with knowledge of all 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells plus three 1st-level spells of her choice. The sha'ir also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Charisma modifier to add to her repertoire. At each new sha'ir level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that a wizard of equal level could cast (based on her new sha'ir level) for her repertoire.
At any time, a sha'ir can add spells she sees being cast to her repertoire. She uses Spellcraft to identify a spell being cast as per the skill's description. Upon successful identification of a spell, the sha'ir can add it permanently to her repertoire. In the same way, she may also learn spells from spellbooks and scrolls with the Spellcraft skill. A sha'ir can only add a spell to her repertoire if a wizard of equal level could learn it. For example, a 4th-level sha'ir can not add a 3rd-level sorcerer/wizard spell to her repertoire. A sha'ir can also never add divine spells of any kind to her repertoire. While the sha'ir can cast spells that are not part of her repertoire, the amount of concentration required by the casting process precludes learning the spell at the same time, thus the sha'ir cannot learn a spell by doing it herself, but must observe another caster.
Unlike a wizard, a sha'ir has no physical object to serve as a spellbook. She stores in her memory only a list of the spells she knows, but not how to independently cast them. In order to cast the spells, she must use the assistance of her gen who will provide the ability to cast the spells. Effects that impair the sha'ir's memory will also affect her spell repertoire. A sha'ir can record her known spells in physical form, such as in a book, for retrieval upon memory loss.
Gen: A gen is a sentient extraplanar being who will provide the sha'ir with the ability to cast her spells. The sha'ir has no ability to cast spells without the assistance of her gen. Unless otherwise stated, the gen will function identically to a wizard's familiar.
The sha'ir must choose one of four elements for her gen to represent: flame, sand, sea or wind. Once a sha'ir makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed. If the gen is destroyed, dismissed or otherwise leaves the sha'ir's service, she can obtain a new gen as per the familiar rules, but the new gen will always be of the same element as the original gen.
When the sha'ir wishes to cast a spell, she must first send her gen to retrieve the spell. Dispatching the gen is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The gen will then travel to the elemental planes under its own power and will spend a random amount of time searching for the spell. The GM will secretly roll 1d6 + spell level. The result is how long the gen will take to return, in rounds, minutes or hours, depending on the type of spell. For spells that are part of the sha'ir's repertoire, the result is in rounds. For arcane spells that are not part of the sha'ir's repertoire, the result is in minutes. For divine spells, the result is in hours. The sha'ir will not know how long the gen will take until it returns.
Upon the gen's return from the elemental planes, the sha'ir must roll a spell retrieval check of 1d20 + her sha'ir class level + her Charisma modifier against a base DC 12 plus the applicable modifiers from below.
+2DC for each spell level of the spell being retrieved
+2DC for each previous failure to retrieve that specific spell during the same day
+8DC if the spell is divine
+4DC if the spell is arcane and too high level for the sha'ir to learn
+2DC if the spell is arcane and is low enough level to be learned but is not yet in the sha'ir's repertoire
If the sha'ir succeeds at the spell retrieval check, the gen immediately provides her with the ability to cast the spell. The sha'ir can then cast the spell as a wizard would, and the duration, save DC and other variable effects are based on the sha'ir's class level. If the spell retrieval check fails, the gen returns without a spell. The gen can be dispatched again on the sha'ir's next action, but it will take a cumulative +2DC penalty for each time it has failed to retrieve that spell during the same day.
The sha'ir can choose not to cast the spell on her next action following the gen's return. She can hold the spell ready for casting for a number of hours equal to her class level, after which it dissipates without effect. The spell also dissipates without effect if the sha'ir sends the gen to retrieve a new spell. The sha'ir will thus not normally be able to have a spell ready for casting while her gen is searching for a new one (but see the Hold Spell feat).
If a spell dissipates without effect, it is not counted against the sha'ir's spells per day. In other words, the spells per day indicates how many spells the sha'ir can cast per day, not retrieve per day. The number of retrievals is not limited and the sha'ir can dissipate spells and retrieve new ones indefinitely as long as she doesn't actually cast them.
Cantrips: Sha'irs can send a gen to retrieve a cantrip, or a 0-level spell. These spells take 1 round to retrieve and are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. The sha'ir only loses the ability to cast the cantrip when she accepts a new retrieved spell from her gen.
Bonus Languages: A sha'ir may substitute Aquan, Auran, Ignan or Terran for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.
Elemental Resistance (Ex): At 2nd level, you gain resistance against elemental attacks. For the purposes of this ability, elemental attacks are those with the air, earth, fire or water descriptors, as well as those with associated energy types. Air is associated with cold, earth is associated with electricity, fire is associated with sonic and water is associated with acid. You gain resistance 2 against the element and energy type represented by your gen, and resistance 1 against the other six (three elements and three energy types). At 8th level the resistances increase to 4 and 2. At 14th level they increase to 10 and 5. At 20th level you gain immunity against the element and energy type represented by your gen, and resistance 10 against the other six.
...to be continued...
Air is associated with cold, earth is associated with electricity, fire is associated with sonic and water is associated with acid.
I always thought it was Air - Electricity, Earth - Acid, Fire - Fire, and Water - Cold
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More seriously, I know that's how it's usually done, but I didn't think there was an actual rule mandating that it *has* to go that way (please do correct me if I'm wrong). It just felt like an illogical system to me and I decided to fix it for myself at least. Of course, just change it back to the usual system if you feel like it.
I knew people would pick up on it, but I didn't want to clutter the actual mechanical writeup with the "behind the scenes" reasonings so I just left it out and waited until I knew somebody would raise the question. :)
So here's my logic, and by all means, don't accept it if you don't like it, and go by the usual pairings. I'm just explaining here how it makes sense to me but I don't expect anyone else to think this way.
By my logic, wind makes things cold. That's why we have fans and a windchill factor. Also, being high up in the sky, in the domain of air, things get colder as you get higher, so the further into air you go, you also get more associated with cold. Air and cold just seemed like a no-brainer to me. Wind + sky = cold. On the other hand, I suppose water can be used to cool off during a hot day, but it can't create the sort of sub-freezing temperatures that wind can. (Ice can, but water can't. And while yes, they're both H2O, ice has its own category in spells a lot of the time that is separate from water.)
I don't follow the link between earth and acid at all. Acid is, by definition, an aqueous solution, which means it is in water. Acid, by its very definition, is contained in water. Consider that sea water in itself is fairly corrosive, and you can see how water can easily be linked to acid in a way that I just don't see earth doing. Acid is just a passenger in the bus that is water. So it makes sense that the water bus can control where the acids go to some degree.
Earth and electricity, okay, that one isn't immediately intuitive, but consider grounding. You know, *ground*ing, as in earth. If you have limited control over or association with earth, I could see how you could have at least some control over the path that electricity takes through you to the ground. You could, in a way, "put the electricity in touch" with the ground, so that it harms you slightly less when it's going through you. That was how I reasoned getting a few points of resistance against electricity -- you ground it. I was actually going to put in the writeup that the resistance only works when you're in contact with ground, but I forgot it.
Fire and sonic, yeah, that I just pulled out of my butt and I admit it. I thought it sucked that every other element gets an energy type and fire doesn't. Sure, it's probably the most common type and more useful to have than the others, but it still felt like I was making it a red(no pun intended) headed stepchild. So I was like, uhhhh, heat is like, vibrating molecules, and sonic is like, vibrating molecules, so...uhhh...yeah!! Quick, look somewhere else!!
I anticipate a lot of hate for this, and I fully accept that such is potentially self-inflicted, but I had a sort of crazy idea in regards to Sha'ir.
What if they were alternate summoners?
Wait, before you get out the torches and pitchforks, hear me out.
Mechanically, the idea would fall into the same line; however, instead of summoning a mental sort of construct from a plane of such things and by force of will giving it shape and form and purpose, the sha'ir is actually calling upon (to wit, actually SUMMONING) a lesser entity of genie-kind, the gen. Taken further, it might even be fluffed by those of a more meta-thematic mind that such a connection, with the elemental planes and with such abilities, could be a variant form of genesis FOR genies, a way of birthing new gen to replace genies lost in interfactional/-planar combat.
Instead of the gen becomming a combat monster in the style of some summoner's eidolon, a more minimal set of evolution points would be applied to the gen's growth, while the rest of the points normally allowed to be spent would serve in a pool-fashion of 'sha'ir can have an easier time retrieving this many levels of spell, before it becomes tedious/difficult/problematic'. The number of spell slots per day might have to be adjusted, but the conceit would be that the sha'ir would send out the gen less frequently and hope to plan out a good supply of spells, or more frequently and risk more time vulnerable but with hopefully faster 'service'?
Instead of the pool carrying over from level to level, one could posit that the gen, at the point where a Sha'ir advances, gains full usage of the prior level of points for itself. In a sense, it is almost a level behind the Sha'ir it serves, as most of the points for its current level are tied into serving as the 'buffer' of retrievable spells/capacity to pass spells onto its master. Additionally, as the gen grows, and the Sha'ir becomes more powerful, the summoning of other genie-kind becomes less of given and more of a crucial formality - the Gen gets to present itself to others of its kind in what it might consider its 'true' form at that point, culminating in becoming a fully grown geniekind member of society, but remaining partnered with the Sha'ir for the remainder of their days.
I could expand upon this if people will hold off on the lynching...
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I think it's a fine idea to, if I understand you essentially, have the gen develop along with the sha'ir. I was thinking about somewhat of a lesser version of this, that I was going to put in the mechanical writeup for the genie cohort ability -- basically, I was going to say that you can, instead of obtaining an unknown genie as a cohort, you could "level up" your gen to grow and become the genie cohort, and you would then need to get a new gen to replace the old one that graduated. I could easily see the sha'ir's gen as a "midwifing" process to incubate new genies. Maybe the sha'ir *is* the thing that gathers elemental energy from the planes and gives that ball of energy sentience and form as a gen, essentially *creating* the gen instead of recruiting one. That would make sha'irs a key part to the genie propagation process, although one would immediately ask, how did the genies propagate before there were sha'irs -- could be that the genies do reproduce on their own as well, but sha'irs add to the rate. Or could be that they lost the ability due to some cataclysm and became a dying race, but the sha'irs are rediscovering the secrets of genie reproduction and thus are working on saving the race.
Having said that, I think going to the degree of granularity that you propose, I think, could be too much work for some people, and it's a big departure from the traditional sha'ir class. You'd almost be developing two PCs at once. I could see this being an optional choice, like an alternate class feature or archetype for the sha'ir.
That was my experience as well. With a 1 in 6 chance of *maybe* getting your lowest level fastest-calling spell soon enough to use it in the same combatNo, seriously. I meant it when I asked it earlier. Your combats are always (or very often) over in 2-3 rounds? Because if your combats run like 5-15 rounds like mine do, there's no problem at all with getting a couple spells off per fight.
Typically for my games, yes, unless it's a boss fight or for some reason surprisingly difficult. It's getting a little longer now that we're getting into higher levels, but at the low levels, before say 6th or 7th, yeah combat is typically over within 3 rounds. Just this last week at our most recent session, most fights ended within two, and the toughest fight of the night - a nasty templated-up Bulette with some Hobgoblin Fighter allies - was over in 3: all the Hobs both went down in the first round, everyone ganged up on the Bulette and took it out in two rounds and change.
I remember having a 3.5 Binder in one party and being able to time the combat rounds by when he got his 5-round cooldown abilities back. The only times he got to use those abilities a second time was in the big tough boss-type battles. Otherwise, combat was usually over a round or two before they came back up.
Meanwhile I'm boggling a bit at the idea of a 15-round fight that's not a boss fight. Even at only 3 or 4 rounds, combat still takes up a large chunk of a session for my group; if our fights went as long as yours, I'd fear never getting anything done except one or two fights a session, especially now that my group just hit level 11.
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Typically for my games, yes, unless it's a boss fight or for some reason surprisingly difficult. It's getting a little longer now that we're getting into higher levels, but at the low levels, before say 6th or 7th, yeah combat is typically over within 3 rounds.
Meanwhile I'm boggling a bit at the idea of a 15-round fight that's not a boss fight. Even at only 3 or 4 rounds, combat still takes up a large chunk of a session for my group
It sounds like your characters and tactics are highly optimized almost to the point of a chess game. For us, we have a more casual style so one round only takes a couple of minutes and one combat usually about 15-30 minutes, so we can fit several into a game session, usually about 3-4 fights per session, which at the suggested rate of 13.33 encounters per level means leveling every 4-5 sessions, which I find to be a comfortable rate. If we actually had closer to 10 fights per session we'd be leveling every other session and that's too fast for my tastes personally.
It could be interesting to do a poll on how many rounds peoples' combat usually takes, but that should get its own thread. For now, I believe that your ultra-short combats are an outlier and I will design the class according to what I believe are more normal combat durations.
First, thanks for the appreciation, the idea struck me as being compelling and I figured, maybe it would help stave off some of the hate that summoners get, combined with how appropriately thematic that alternate summoner seemed to be for the class. That said...
Having said that, I think going to the degree of granularity that you propose, I think, could be too much work for some people, and it's a big departure from the traditional sha'ir class. You'd almost be developing two PCs at once. I could see this being an optional choice, like an alternate class feature or archetype for the sha'ir.
See, to me it wasn't more granular than the original concept - the whole method for spell retrieval is fantastic in flavor, somewhat impeding in practice. I wanted to give the Sha'ir themselves a spell-holding threshold on par with their current slot limits, but keeping to the general/non-general/divine distinction of spells, the DCs instead counting for increase of 'spell slot' usage. Or possibly the spells per level could be set up as what amount of spell energy could be used before it becomes perilous - if keeping to the 2E interpretation and using wizard spell progression, this would mean at level 20 they would have 4 spells per level of spell, or approximately 177 spell levels available per day; if they used Pathfinder's summoner progression, it would be 126 spell levels. As people complained about Summoners having 6th level spells that accessed ninth level progression, I think the idea of Sha'ir having access to 9th level spells is less problematic if they are forced to apply this sort of limitation - 'general knowledge' spells would be those which would be appropriate to cast for their level-equivalency, and otherwise it's non-standard knowledge at a higher cost. A hypothetical 8th level Sha'ir, by this method, would have 4 1st, 4 2nd, and 2 3rd level spells available as an equivalent summoner - as a Sha'ir, that translates into [(4*1)+(4*2)+(2*3)], or 14 spell levels to work with, dividable up however the Sha'ir sees fit. Of course, their gen has to succeed in the retrieval of that spell, and in wheedling, begging, pleading, and cajoling them from the planes and/or their betters in the first place.
Some might look at this idea and say, "But TheAntiElite, that means a desperate Sha'ir could try to burn all their spell levels at a low level to try to cast Wish and break my carefully crafted scenario!" Take a look at the DCs again and see how viable that is. You'd be more likely to have to deal with someone who wants to spend all their spell levels either on making everything fall asleep for purpose of maximum murder-hoboing, or otherwise engaging in stereotypical Batmage dickery. Flavorwise, Sha'ir doesn't lend itself to such things. Not to mention that this was a peril in their original iteration, as well...
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I think I'm not really getting what you're saying. The first post seemed to be about the gen improving over time, and the second post seems to be about adding up separate spell level slots for a total spell level points system. Either way though I think I'd personally stay closer to a direct conversion from 2e, although I'd be happy to see your proposal as an alternate class feature if you feel like writing it up in game language.
I'll try to TL;DR it down as concisely as possible while I'm working on my writeup.
Cliff Notes - Sha'ir use total spell levels from slots instead of spells per level, still get their spells from their gen, and the gen grows over time; instead of gen simply fetching a spell and making a 'use or lose' of it in the immediate, gen shop around for an allotment of spells, the Sha'ir able to hold them for a bit before they start to fizzle out. To keep the gen from being an overpowered eidolon, it only gets to use half of its evolution points and half of its skill points at level - the rest are used as the gen's 'carrying capacity' for spells.
Going back to my prior example, the hypothetical 8th level Sha'ir has 14 spell levels to work with. Say she needs needs to light some people up, and a fireball would be just the thing. She sends her gen into the planes to retrieve some delicious fireball action. Said gen would, at 8th level, have 11 evolution points, but can only have 5 (half of 11, rounded down) allocated to himself. He also would have 24 skill points, 12 of which are for his own usage, with the remaining 12 (plus six evolution points) giving the gen a maximum spellcarrying capacity of 18 spell levels. Fireball is a common spell and 3rd level for most arcane casters: The chance would be 70% {base 50% +40% [5%*8th level] -30% [-10%*3rd level spell] +10% due to commonality}, and if desperate the Sha'ir could have the gen expend extra effort , possibly at a rate of a point of carrying capacity for a 2% chance of success. In this case, the Sha'ir is willing to risk things as-is - the gen is sent out, the Sha'ir stalls for time, and the gen returns, causing a sparkling ring to appear on his mistress finger carrying the raw energies that will become the fireball spell when unleashed. The gen's successful retrieval has consumed 3 points from his total for the day, leaving him a 15 point carrying capacity until next he and his mistress rest. The Sha'ir, meanwhile, has used up 3 of her 14 castable levels for the day.
Had she needed a divine spell, she could have again had the gen spend some casting capacity to improve the odds of success, but she herself would have had to use a number of levels as appropriate to the spell's level. I was thinking of possibly making it cost more spell levels to cast divine spells, as opposed to arcane, in addition to being harder for the poor gen to retrieve.
Frankly, I want to balance by effort required, not by making the math a punishment for GM and party. There's a potential for abuse in the form of Sha'ir wanting to blow all their spell levels/points per day on one big spell, instead of retrieving lots of smaller, more accessible ones, but it strikes me as not being really the sort of problem people who would want to play the class would cause.
Also, I figured that a Sha'ir would be more Qadiran than Osirin, but that's just being nitpicky. Plus, I don't have my Hamunaptura books on hand to suggest conversions from it.
A possible compromise of utility versus resource management might be making it possible to 'springboard' the gen's retrieval efforts by spending a spell level to lower the time spent by one category - it's not as much a spell as the Sha'ir's own magical aura providing the boost that the gen needs to get to and fro much quicker. Possibly cap the utility of this for only common arcane spells, not anything else, until higher level.
Given I'm not hands-on to my Complete Sha'ir's Handbook, I can go over all of the miscellaneous potential side-system things that were include, including improving one's gen, though that would likely be something I'd make require the permanent investment of spell slots to cover, taken from the Sha'ir to pay for the gen upgrade. I could also see evolution point abilities being less-restricted, but if the gen is using an evolution power/ability, the points tied into it are not usable for spell retrieval purposes.
The Sha'ir's Handbook was a great sourcebook. One of my favorite options was the Spell Tokens. Essentially, a gen could collect tokens that lasted for 3 turns (30 minutes I believe). They wouldn't get more than one token at a time, though. This was out of fear of attracting unwanted attention from the more powerful Genies. The thing about 2nd Edition, nothing was really written in stone. It suggested any method the DM and player could come up with was valid.
Are you still working on this?
(I don't mean to pressure you or anything. I'm just wondering.)
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I've always liked the sha'ir class, but never had much opportunity to play it. A few years ago I had the chance in a 3.5 game and used the update from a Dragon Magazine.
It didn't last long.
Since it was based off of a Wizard, there wasn't much I could do while I was waiting for spells, aside from being knocked around. At early levels, I'd be lucky if I could actually get a spell off. Bad luck on rolls meant I had to wait until combat was over until I received a spell. It is a great concept, it just doesn't work well for this system.
I've been contemplating making sha'ir an archetype of sorcerer. I'd like to keep the gen and some sort of check, though. I'd consider something to this effect:
Round 1: Send gen out to fetch a spell, make check.
Round 2: If check succeeds, cast spell as normal. If check fails, re-roll check.
Round 3: If check previously failed, but reroll succeeds, cast spell as normal.
It may take a bit longer to cast, but not drastically so, such as the 1d6 roll. It would just add a round before you could cast the spell, assuming your check succeeds.
Another option would be to include the casting action (move, full) in Round 1:
Round 1: Send gen out to fetch a spell (action = same action to cast the spell), make check.
Round 2: If check succeeds, spell is cast at the beginning of turn, you still have your actions for Round 2.
This would essentially make every spell a full-round casting spell. In most cases, it would take longer to cast, in few cases it would be quicker. I would see this as a class benefit: able to cast some spells quicker. I don't think that would be too broken, though I could be wrong.
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All right, it's time to finish this thing up.
The longer I have sat on the sha'ir, the more I have become convinced that the way to go is not trying to replicate the exact mechanics of the original (or Dragon) version exactly or near-exactly. So while above you have the necessary pieces to put together an "original sha'ir", I figured that what I'm going to try to do is change the mechanics yet retain the flavor.
I went from a few basic fundamental assumptions.
* The sha'ir is the ultimate versatile spellcaster, combining the versatility of the wizard (being able to learn any spell) and the sorcerer (not needing to pre-choose spells) -- there must be a significant drawback to balance this out
* The sha'ir will NOT anymore (as opposed to previous editions) have access to spells above her level to prevent game breaking
* The sha'ir's spell retrieval rolls will be a chance at the beginning of each turn, instead of a secretly rolled duration, to reduce bookkeeping, and, IMO, to increase rolling fun for players
* The sha'ir will usually begin a fight with any one spell of her choice, and after expending it, will have to wait for some rounds into a combat before being able to cast the perfectly chosen spell for that particular combat
Some unfundamental assumptions that I am still debating are:
* Will the sha'ir still have access to divine spells or is that overpowered? As a compromise, perhaps a lowered level, like a sha'ir that has access to lvl 5 arcane spells would have access to lvl 4 or lvl 3 divine spells? I'm inclined to go with the reduced level compromise.
* Will the sha'ir keep track of their known spells? In previous editions, there has been a separation between known and unknown arcane spells, and in Pathfinder, there is a precedent in the Witch class for a sentient companion essentially being your "spellbook". I'm inclined to go with a similar arrangement in that regard.
* If a sha'ir has "known spells", can she use arcane preparation to have multiple spells ready to go without the spell retrieval process?
* Will a spell retrieval failure by some margin have negative side effects, and if so, what kind?
* Will spell retrieval be Charisma check, Cha+level check, Diplo check, Know (planes) check or something else?
At the lower end of the scale, a level 1 sha'ir with 14 Cha would have a +3 level+Cha modifier. At the higher end of the scale, a level 1 sha'ir with 20 Cha wuld have a +6 level+Cha modifier. A level 20 sha'ir could have something like +31 level+Cha modifier.
I did a bunch of math that says that in order to have a 3-4 round delay on average, the separation between spell retrieval modifier and the DC should be a difference of about 17-18.
Separation 11: 1.0 rounds
Separation 12: 1.2 rounds
Separation 13: 1.4 rounds
Separation 14: 1.6 rounds
Separation 15: 1.9 rounds
Separation 16: 2.4 rounds
Separation 17: 3.1 rounds
Separation 18: 4.3 rounds
Separation 19: 6.6 rounds
Separation 20 or more: 13.5 rounds
So if you can reach a separation of 11 between your modifier and the DC, you can basically cast spells with very little downtime as the retrieval will on average take 1 round. If the separation reaches 20 or more, then the wait time caps out at 13.5 rounds, which basically in most combats will probably mean the fight is over before the spell is retrieved.
We can't use caster level as part of the spell retrieval check, because adding 1 per level, when spell levels (and thus DCs) only increase by 1/2 per level, means that the spell retrieval check would rapidly outpace the DCs and you'd end up with a 1 round spell retrieval for 9th level spells at level 18, *without* any Cha modifier, which would shorten things even more. Similarly, using any skill check would also mean increasing by 1/lvl which would also outpace the DC. So I'm inclined to make the spell retrieval check a straight out Charisma check.
Using just the Charisma modifier as the spell retrieval bonus, a sha'ir with 14 Charisma would have a +2 spell retrieval modifier and a level 1 spell would have a DC of 21. With a separation of 19, the low-end sha'ir would retrieve her spell in 6.6 rounds on average. That seems reasonable for somebody who has only 14 in her primary stat. On the other hand, an aasimar sha'ir with 20 Charisma has a +5 spell retrieval modifier, and would retrieve the same first level spell in 2.4 rounds on average. So far, this seems like a workable range. The high end 2.4 rounds, the low end 6.6 rounds.
How does this shake out at high levels? Accessing 9th level spells would require a spell retrieval mod of +10 (Cha 30-31) in order to get the same 6.6 rounds. Let's assume that our low end sha'ir with a starting Cha of 14 has used all four of her level-up stat increases and has a Charisma modifier of +4 when she's level 18, that's still far from being able to usefully access the 9th level spells she would level-wise have access to. On the other hand, the minmaxer aasimar has used her stat increases to get her natural Charisma to 24 and on top of that has gotten a +6 Charisma cloak to get that spell retrieval roll -- just barely -- to where she can access the 9th level spells with a 6.6 round delay.
With the low-end character pretty much counted out and even the minmaxer barely keeping pace, I posit that maybe something needs to be done to help the sha'ir keep up with the increasing DCs, although NOT adding the caster level in, because that would be far too much. One answer would be giving them a line of feats like Spell Penetration that would give them +2 per feat or something. But, that might be too much "you must take feat A just to keep up". Perhaps a better solution would be a class feature that gives them +2 at certain levels, sort of like the monk's built-in gradual AC increase.
I need to go shopping now but I'll give this some more thought later this weekend.
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I've been doing some playtesting with my sha'ir through Mummy's Mask Book 1.
Essentially, the version I've been running has:
Charisma as a casting skill.
Doesn't have spells known. Like a Clr or Drd, she can choose to prepare any spell on her spell list, and uses the Sor/Wiz spell list. Of course, DM discretion can rule out access to unique or rare spells.
Uses the Wiz number of spells per day. Doesn't have access to arcane spells beyond her level or any divine spells.
Spontaneous conversion. Can "lose" any prepared spell to dispatch a gen to retrieve any other spell on her spell list. Dispatch is by default a full-round action. Retrieval takes time, during which the sha'ir is free to act normally, including the usage of remaining prepared spells.
Roll spell retrieval each turn after the dispatch. Spell retrieval roll is 1d20 + Cha bonus vs DC 20 + spell level. If the roll succeeds, it takes by default a full-round action to receive the spell from the gen.
A retrieved spell does not become a prepared spell but is a "held" spell. If the sha'ir does not cast it, it is lost, and the spell sacrificed for the retrieval does not come back.
Take 20 is possible for spell retrieval, but will of course take 2 minutes. This means that outside combat, the sha'ir can pretty much prepare any one spell. She can't change her entire spell list though because she can only retrieve one spell at a time. If she retrieves a second one, the first one is lost.
Feats available to shorten dispatch/receive time from full-round action to standard, and from standard to move.
So far, the sha'ir has not outshined the rest of the party. On one or two occasions, she has had a moment of glory when a combat has run long enough for her to retrieve the perfect spell and finish off the enemy. But by and large she's mostly just functioned as your typical arcane caster, using her prepared spells.
Of course, arcanes are weak at low levels, so I will continue playtesting towards higher levels.
Might I recommend Adding a "favored spell" list that allows the sha'ir to retrieve said spells 1 round/segment of a round faster than spells not on their favored list. Make the list slightly adjustable like a sorcerers spells known list and I think that would solve a lot of the difficulty of combat casting. Also if you do use a separation table round up on the time required.
Nice job on the conversion, neat to see.