So, how did every group choose who was going to be captain? I just started the AP, first time from the beginning, and I'm curious how various groups came to that somewhat difficult decision.
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In my group, I decided that the crew was divided in their loyalties based on the characters CHA-scores and how much they'd be influencing on the Wormwood.
Then the players discussed it among themself, but everybody know who'd have the most swords to command, should it come to blows.
Finally, having reached a dead-end, the players (totally in character for their Chaotic characters, I might add) decided to play dice for the ship instead of fighting another battle, which would have left them with to little crew to sail anywhere.
I guess it's mainly a matter of group dynamics. In my gaming group, we had before even starting decided that while everybody was fine with playing evil characters, we would not accept serious inter-party fighting or betrayal. That just kills the spirit and has the potential to make it unfun. And playing dice for your ship seems in the pirate-spirit. So the main point is, as allways, make sure your group agress what kind of game you'll be playing, and even potentially difficult situations play out nicely.
this was... actually easy.
Five player group. Initially 4/5 had profession sailor ( our bard choose to be the odd-man-out, fleeing from massive gambling debts ). Everybody looked over how the Profession sailor scores were at the end of third level (post mutiny, they chopped Plugg to pieces before Bonewrack island), took a second look at CHA scores, then decided to pick the (nautically minded) strategist Half-Orc Cavalier - who is sheer murder on all around intimidation.
Since there is no mount yet, the char is mostly into applying tactical advantages (sneak attacks to everyone) and chopping people up from the second tier (pole-arm), while scaring people off.
Sorcerer did not invest any skill points (and is from an off-beat race anyway ), oracle is in-game/out-game too confused to even apply for the job (and an ingame exotic-dancer-pirate to boot, which commands anything but respect ), and the Dwarf barbarian, even though strongly invested in the whole pirate concept, was frankly out of luck due to a "CHA 6" score and smacking about crew from the beginning.
The bard became the Quartermaster and part-time Navigator and Jac-of-all-trades(good luck on the loot) nevermind the nice-guy diplomatic executive, barbarian became First Mate ("are you afraid of me ? GOOD !"), the Oracle was kept as a strange mascot (and is in danger of dying each and every minute), and the Sorcerer became officer in charge of Special Effects.
They are now hard-pressed for a competent navigator, a shipwright and a second Mate. Skill points will be allocated to these jobs over time, and NPCs probably groomed.
But in general : The characters first coordinated their concepts (fighter #1 and #2, healer, support Healer, arcanist) , and then took ingame steps to apply (internally and towards the crew) for their later positions. And yes, the characters started out as pirates and with a strong incentive to keep it that way.
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I'm the only experienced player, playing a Charisma 16 Cleric of Besmara.
The youngest player in the group (age 14) decided he would appoint himself Captain, mayor of our village/base/hideout and Admiral of the flotilla.
We agreed. I told him that his homework was to learn the meaning of "de jure" and "de facto".
:D
Dead simple for our group too, we have a wizard, a storm driud and a Rogue swashie. The Wizard was built around the ships cook and gunner, the storm driud was the natural navigator and the swashie with high bluff skills was the best fit for the captain, no arguments the group just naturally slipped in to the roles.
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Was . . . interesting for our group.
Group is an extremely ill-tempered gunslinger, a socially awkward sorcerer, a rogue with a romanticized view of pirates, and a druid who was an experienced sailor (my character).
Basically, the gunslinger and the sorcerer were automatically out of the running. Neither seemed interested, neither were particularly good sailors, and neither were particularly well liked by the crew.
The contest was really between the rogue, who had been the one winning over the crew and slowly seducing the women aboard the ship. And the druid, whose rash actions had given her a reputation of "she's insane, but she keeps winning in unwinnable situations". Of them, the rogue seemed to have clear aspirations of becoming an infamous pirate, and the druid really just wanted to be a regular sailor again.
Right after seizing the ship, the rogue gave a speech to the crew naming the druid as the captain. This was quickly seconded by the gunslinger threatening to kill anyone who disagreed. And thus the druid, too much of an emotional wreck to provide input due to recent events, had the role of captain thrust upon her. The rogue is First Mate, the Gunslinger is the Boatswain/Master Gunner, and the sorcerer is the ship's mage.
Now there is an interesting dynamic where the rogue (both the character and the player of the rogue) seems to want to be doing captain stuff, and may have intended to be the true power, with a lower profile. And the druid is trying to figure out how to be a good captain while also keeping the rogue in check.
There was also the metagame angle for this decision as I am probably the most experienced in my group, and I generally play the party face role (though with my druid's negative to Charisma and no social skills, I definitely am not this time). Also, I think that the gunslinger and sorcerer players would rather have me playing the captain than the rogue's player due to our social dynamic.
The group I'm running for includes a human fighter, a tengu rogue, a ratman gunslinger, a halfling bard and a tiefling witch. The group more or less worked it out on their own given their skills and interests and there wasn't really any competition.
The fighter is captain, the tengu is quartermaster, the ratman is chief gunner, the halfling is boatswain and the tiefling is ship's mage. We're been using NPCs for other officers: Sandara Quinn is surgeon, Conchobar is boatswain's mate, Owlbear is gunner's mate, Rosie Cusswell is master at arms and Fishguts is still the cook. Jarren the Jinx from the NPC Guide was introduced at Rickety Squibs and hired on as first mate. I decided Jarren would bring the added bonus of having a good knowledge of who's who among the Shackles pirates given his write up.
Basically, just let your players hash it out. It's mainly their decision to make. I just had to give input on what the different jobs actually entailed and which were jobs of consequence and the players just gravitated towards what they wanted.
The selection was quite different for our group. Nobody wanted the job!
I felt that everyone (I'm the DM so naturally I'm excluded) would want to be captain and it would be difficult to select one. Instead, my players did everything to hot potato the issue so they weren't the one saddled with the position. Finally someone relented and agreed to be captain.
Well that is where the problem of the way I started my game came in. It started as a prelude to Razor's Coast so half the group separated off it and half stayed with S&S. Only 2 characters remained of the starting crew the wizard and the cleric and they did not want the player playing the cleric to be the captain so the wizard with a Chr 10 is captain. The good thing is she is good friends with Sandara, Rosie and Fishguts so she has a core of NPCs around her. While she lacks diplomacy and has to leave that to the cleric her profession sailor is high along with the rest of her ship skills. One of the newer players is a good organizer so he is going to be the quartermaster. The crew that left were the bard, the witch and the pirate rogue (also chr 10) so they were not good candidates either and named the wizard captain prior to leaving. While a bard might have been a good choice this one is a Halfling whose ambition does not rise above cabin boy! He got his wish on the new ship.
In our case, the devil fish killed the entire party save one - the goblin fighter. So when our chance came up, since he was the only original character (not to mention the most powerful), we all agreed he should have it.
That lasted 3 sessions.
He was roleplaying that his fighter really wanted to be a paladin, but couldn't make the cut. So, he objected to the fact that my Besmaran Cleric kept raising undead minions.
On the other (non-paladinish) hand, he also kept most of the loot for himself.
It reached a head when our characters started arguing, and I decided then and there to mutiny. My Cleric attacked the captain, forcing the other characters to take sides. Luckily, they both joined with me, and we killed him. (I still feel bad about that - I don't normally believe in PvP, but I got caught up in the mood and we all decided no tap-backs)
When it came time to choose the new captain, the Sorceror indicated he wanted it, and I didn't argue - seeing what had happened to the last two captains (Plugg and the fighter).
To be fair the only time diplomacy, and therefore charisma, matters to a captain mechanically is if you're piloting a manpowered ship. Since you're piloting a sailing ship, profession: sailor is the necessary skill. The fighter in my group, I'm sure, has an average to low charisma. The halfling bard is the charismatic one and she's boatswain and is in charge of raising infamy and recruiting crew. The captain just pilots the boat. I'm just putting this out there becuase a few posts seem to be assuming the captain has to be charismatic.
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To be fair the only time diplomacy, and therefore charisma, matters to a captain mechanically is if you're piloting a manpowered ship. Since you're piloting a sailing ship, profession: sailor is the necessary skill. The fighter in my group, I'm sure, has an average to low charisma. The halfling bard is the charismatic one and she's boatswain and is in charge of raising infamy and recruiting crew. The captain just pilots the boat. I'm just putting this out there becuase a few posts seem to be assuming the captain has to be charismatic.
Mechanically speaking, this is true. However, having a decent social skilled captain makes sense as they are the likely representative for the ship and crew as you gain power and potentially join the Pirate Council. Also, would be good in terms of making sure the crew doesn't mutiny. So not absolutely necessary, but also not a bad idea.
Well the captain doesn't need to be the one on the Pirate Council. In fact, I personally would recommend against letting one PC have all of the spotlight. One person sailing the ship, owning the lairs, sitting on the council, etc. could reduce the other PCs to supporting cast and I wouldn't like that.
Also, the boatswain is actually human resources so that being the charismatic officer makes sense.
In our group, 1 person just really wanted to be captain, the others were too apathetic to share an opinion so that guy became captain. Unfortunately the player was disinclined to actually take on the role of captain, our game became directionless and recently halted.
If your group is generally resistant to declaring anyone else as leader over the others like ours, the GM may want to have the crew voice an opinion about who they would accept as a leader.
I don't think it's people don't want to. I think several have the desire, but I think one has the chance to make it a reality.
Being the captain is a lot of work in and out of the game especially since we are using Fire As She Bears rules. Us landlubbers in the center of the country have to learn about actually sailing a ship at least as far as the rules are concerned! While both of our fathers were navy men they didn't pass that down unfortunately. All I got was his seabag.
@shaun
Actually, a diplomatic captain is a pretty good option. Less antagonism from the crew equals less mutiny, less ostentible resistance to harsh circmstances or conditions and far more motivated crew. And yes, pirate captains get/got _voted_ into power, possibly reinforced by the fact of them providing the ship and money for its outfitting. But an unpopular guy rarely stays in power, even if effective or competent - take a long hard look at history. HMS Bounty ( Commander Bligh was thoroughly competent, but also unpopular) or HMS Hermione spring to mind.
Or I'd say : "ask Harrigan".Some more competent decisions toward the crew and his lackeys might have turned the AP into something much different
Competence is one thing, being well-liked is another and actually very useful, nevermind people wanting to negotiate/deal with the man in charge, not his diplomatic aide-de-camp. And yes, it is the Free Captains ruling the Shackles, not the council of secretaries of states or chief ambassadors. The captains take the risk, and command, they get to take the privilege
And the boatsswain is definitely ( historically ) not the human/humanoid resources position : his job is to motivate the crew by keeping them inline (usuall those of his assigned watch ), basically a drill sergeant's position, through punishment, threats and reliance on the ultimate authority of the captain backing him.
The master and master's mates were running the ship, often enough in a union with being captain or commander of the vessel. The boatsswain/aka bosun ( basically the officer in charge of the ship's boats) was a low-level position of authority. The quartermaster, on some spirate vessels had a distinguished position as the crew's "tribune" - atypical, but famusly so on some vessels.
oh and nevermind : most groups I know off (in Kingmaker and S&S) keep running things by majority vote, internally, whoever is declared captain or the feudal lord ^^
If none of the players actually want to assume the title of Captain, it's still a playable AP if they play kingmaker and support a favoured NPC in the position. Then the NPC captain can just "order" the vessel on the course of the AP, taking into advisement the PCs' counsel. If you have the Isles of the Shackles, simple matter then for the NPC Captain to order a course be set for any side treks you want to explore with your players. Eg: Cpt Quinn makes for Besmara's Throne where after settling some intrigue she comes away with a quest to rid the Cannibal Islands' Kuru of their Blood Queen. (Only room for one Queen in the Shackles!)
I'm curious how my group will make the decision. I see a potential of 3/4 PCs and 2.5/4 players with interest in the position. I'm also curious to see how their diplomatic work will come into play. I've kept a table of NPC attitudes to each PC, not the party as a whole. Some NPCs favour one or 2 of the PCs while being indifferent or hostile to the others. It could make for some very interesting 'rock, paper, scissors'-style diplomacy/intimidation contests between the PCs and Plugg/Scourge to meaningfully sway the crew. The Wormwood boards the Man's Promise next session...
[edit: word order for comprehensibility]
It's interesting to see, in my group, that the inquisitor of Besmara (with the birthmark trait) is the one that is getting a good deal of attention from the crew. Of course, part of it could be that he's scared Plugg twice already.
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So, how did every group choose who was going to be captain? I just started the AP, first time from the beginning, and I'm curious how various groups came to that somewhat difficult decision.
My group had a Sea Singer Bard, a low Charisma Barbarian, a low Charisma Rogue and a Master Summoner who had absolutely no interest in the job which made things easy.
It actually added to the story/fun of it because the Bard was like a teenaged girl and a new player to Pathfinder, so the Barb and the Rogue installed her as a sort of figurehead in-game as those players did the same out-of-game, making all of the real decisions behind the scenes in the process... but over time both the player and the character began to mature and settle into her role more and more until she finally took command for real, and it kind of left everyone grinning and proud of her.
It actually added to the story/fun of it because the Bard was like a teenaged girl and a new player to Pathfinder, so the Barb and the Rogue installed her as a sort of figurehead in-game as those players did the same out-of-game, making all of the real decisions behind the scenes in the process... but over time both the player and the character began to mature and settle into her role more and more until she finally took command for real, and it kind of left everyone grinning and proud of her.
Good for her!
My group is still a ways off from this point, but it should be interesting as the (OOC) player probably most suited to the role built a character who is definitely NOT someone the party wants as their "face".
(Specifically, a necromancer who has some ...unique... ideas for the campaign, but hardly someone you'd want as a recruiter. "Hi there! Would you like to join my crew of undead pirates?")
Should be fun for all concerned. :D
Friend's defunct group actually had the opposite problem.
One player had very much prepared his character to take over either the captaincy or the master's position, was highly popular with the crew (only one capable of decent diplomacy rolls), the supposed captain to be suffered from major role-playing problems and the rest of the groups neither wanted the job, nor were prepared for it.
Point to be made - said executive officer/captain was the first chap to be slain on Bonewrack island, which left the party with a semi-mutinious crew who believed the PCs had done away with the popular contender^^ Nevermind they now were without a diplomat, navigator or anyone proficient in seamanship. Panic ensued because they now had noone capable or accepted enough for filling the position
Group dissolved shortly afterwards for external reasons
The captain in our campaign is not the pilot of the ship ever. The captain is the bard and the face. The first mate gnome rouge (pirate) gets to get his hands dirty at the wheel.
The captain in our campaign is not the pilot of the ship ever. The captain is the bard and the face. The first mate gnome rouge (pirate) gets to get his hands dirty at the wheel.
This was similar to us. Our captain was a Human Sea Singer Bard, but our pilot was a Half-Elven Master Summoner - his eidlon could both fly and swim underwater, had darksight and could communicate back telepathically, so she served as the scout for our ship either searching for ships on the horizon for us to attack or beneath the waves to help us avoid dangerous reefs and such. Worked really well.
We also had a Human Barbarian as Bosun and Master-at-Arms with the Halfling Rosie Cuswell as his mate and a Human Rogue who served as Quartermaster and handled all of our trade in port. Sandara Quinn was in charge of recruitment, morale and healing aboard ship while Aron Ivey (alive in our campaign) became ship's carpenter. The Captain participated in all of these tasks, but delegated authority to those characters in their respective areas.
I feel proud of my guys; it was never a question of who'd be in charge because our Half-Elf Barbarian was just full-on "I'M GONNA BE KING OF THE PIRATES" from the very beginning (which got her almost-one-shotted by Harrigan for giving him lip in the first session). Everyone else in the party just instinctively fell into step behind her and she's been the ringleader ever since, though she always listens to what the crew has to say. It's one of those treasured parties where everyone is very much friends with everyone else.
Well our first captain was me and it was decided democratically that I... Was the only one who could control the Antipaladin that terrified everyone else and I got the job. Then Saltwater Merrows happened and that was the end of that. The Antipaladin was long gone by then and the seasinger bard was plotting mutiny to boot as was the oracle so they just sorta let me die.
The Sea Singer bard took over as captain, and the only reason that that didn't get a mutiny was luck and me not wanting the job again after last time. Then we all died.
