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Does Smite Evil allow you to hit incorporeal creatures even if the weapon is not magical.
Here is a rules quote for someone that believes it does. His argument is that smite evil is its own attack.
Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
I disagree. Smite evil is not an attack on its own, and it in no way makes the weapon magical. It does not even target the weapon. It is an effect placed upon the paladin by the rules. If the weapon is not magic then it can not hit the incorporeal creature, and therefore the smite damage never takes place.
Other arguments are here.
FAQ please...
smite evil is also not an atk like it is in 3.5 but a swift action of getting buffed against said target. I believe we are in agreement that smite evil itself is not a supernatural atk. The question (aka faq) would be does the supernatural buff the charecter receives ALSO make their atks supernatural?
I dont believe so but the wording does leave it open for interpretation which we would need a faq for.
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1. Supernatural Abilities work just as well as magical weapons on incorporeal creatures.
CRB wrote:
Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.
What you are saying is that (Su) means magic weapon in all cases. This is not true by the description above. I will not concede that is is open for interpretation. Unless a Dev says otherwise. :) Heh
Not sure about getting a FAQ but hope springs...
Smite evil only affects DR in the text as written.
I agree fully that if the weapon itself is not magical or the creature does not strike as a magic weapon, the attack will be ineffective.This has nothing to do with magical weapons. Nothing at all. You do not need magical weapons to hurt an Incorporeal creature. To summarize the argument in favor.
1. Supernatural Abilities work just as well as magical weapons on incorporeal creatures.
2. Smite Evil is a Supernatural Ability.
3. Smite Evil explicitly says you make "Smite Evil Attacks"
4. Therefore, attacks against the Smited target are Supernatural.
5. Therefore, Smite Evil allows you to hurt incorporeal creatures with a non-magic weapon.
Are you saying smite can hit without the weapon hitting?
If not then smite needs for the weapon to hit. The weapon can not hit if it is not magical. Smite would have to empower the weapon with the ability to hit incorporeal creatures in order for the weapon to hit because with the weapon hitting smite damage is never applied.
So tell me how is that weapon hitting if it is not magical. Now if you want to say smite damage applies with the weapon hitting then explain how.
That is not an answer to what I just asked. <--Dodging the question or talking around it will just make me ask it again.
Now I have a new question to add. Are you saying smite empowers the weapon to strike the creature?
Saying it is SU means nothing by itself.
What I am saying is that if an ability made a weapon do fire damage that would not let the weapon hit an incorporeal creature because the weapon still has to hit the creature, even if the ability was SU.
I never knew that Smite Evil has the same target type as Magic Weapon. Show me where Smite Evil says it targets the weapon. If I somehow miraculously missed it, show me where it says it makes your attacks have the SU descriptor or some similar means to overcome incorporeal traits.
Until this is done, the opposing case has no island to step on.
Also, since the initial Smite Evil effects don't deal damage it's still subject to a 50% miss chance for it to even land on the creature (since Smite Evil targets the creature, not the weapon or character).
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Referring to your recent post about "Fire Strike" your concept would mean that incorporeal creatures would be hit Alchemist bombs, Inquisitor judgments, Magus' spellstrike(weapon damage) etc...the list goes on.
This is very troubling. If the community has missed something since like 2008 then fine, but I don't think this is correct.
My guess is this one will get a "no reply required". All this time it's never even occured to me or been brought up in a game that smite damage could get applied to a type of attack that can't even effect it's target. Who knows though, I've been surprised before. I'll hit FAQ.
That is not an answer to what I just asked. <--Dodging the question or talking around it will just make me ask it again.
Now I have a new question to add. Are you saying smite empowers the weapon to strike the creature?
Saying it is SU means nothing by itself.
What I am saying is that if an ability made a weapon do fire damage that would not let the weapon hit an incorporeal creature because the weapon still has to hit the creature, even if the ability was SU.
Consider the following:
(Su) Fire Strike A: You attack with a melee weapon inflicting normal damage plus 2d8 fire damage.That would hit an incorporeal creature, even if the weapon itself was not magical. This is because it is an attack with a Supernatural ability. The (Su) DOES make it special, because it signifies that what follows is a supernatural ability.
It is different if it is worded like:
(Su) Fire Strike B: Enemies hit by your melee attacks take an additional 2d8 fire damage.That specifies that the supernatural element kicks in AFTER the hit.
On the hand...
(Su) Fire Strike C: Your melee attacks are Fire Strikes and enemies hit by them suffer an additional 2d8 fire damage.
That doesn't have the same implication at all, and in fact says it and the attack are indistinguishable -- hence the attacks themselves would be supernatural.
And yes, I've been saying the whole time, over and over and over and over and over again that smite "empowers" the weapon. How many times and in how many ways must I repeat that?
Please repeat after me.
Supernatural attacks can hit incorporeal creatures and do half damage.
Supernatural attacks can hit incorporeal creatures and do half damage.
Supernatural attacks can hit incorporeal creatures and do half damage.
Supernatural attacks can hit incorporeal creatures and do half damage.
Supernatural attacks can hit incorporeal creatures and do half damage.
You are incorrect them because the rules don't say SU attacks empower weapons to hit incorporeal creatures. If the SU needs for the weapon to hit then you have to find another way to make the weapon hit.
You can not find any language that says the weapon is empowered to hit when it is not magical. Yeah I read what you quoted, but you read quoted is not even close to matching what you are trying to say.
The weapon can not hit if it is not magical.
Where are you getting this? Because that's not what I'm getting from the entry on Incorporeal.
The only thing I can find to suggest that incorporeal creatures are unaffected by a non-magical weapon is the following passage:
[An incorporeal creature] can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.
An incorporeal creature can only be harmed by magic weapons, et al. Hitting and harming are not the same thing last I checked. It is entirely possible to hit a creature yet not harm it.
The weapon can not hit if it is not magical.
Where are you getting this? Because that's not what I'm getting from the entry on Incorporeal.
The only thing I can find to suggest that incorporeal creatures are unaffected by a non-magical weapon is the following passage:
[An incorporeal creature] can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.An incorporeal creature can only be harmed by magic weapons, et al. Hitting and harming are not the same thing last I checked. It is entirely possible to hit a creature yet not harm it.
It's immune to all forms of non magical attacks. Smite Evil enhances the non-magical attack. Thusly, it does not affect Ethereals unless the weapon is magical or of similar caliber.
And Smite Evil does no such thing as you've described. In 3.X, it'd work if it was still SU, since 3.X made it into a single attack roll, but in PF it applies benefits to the character no different than a Ranger's Favored Enemy.
Again, Smite Evil Attacks can only be referred as "Attacks enhanced by the Smite Evil Ability" because the Smite Evil ability is not an attack of itself, no more than the Power Attack feat or anything else similar to it. Hostile effect? Yes. But an attack (which requires an attack roll for it to be classified as such)? Not by the language present in its description.
Again, Smite Evil Attacks can only be referred as "Attacks enhanced by the Smite Evil Ability" because the Smite Evil ability is not an attack of itself, no more than the Power Attack feat or anything else similar to it. Hostile effect? Yes. But an attack (which requires an attack roll for it to be classified as such)? Not by the language present in its description.1. "Can only be referred to" is incorrect. You can interpret it as giving you Smite Evil Attacks.
2. If Power Attack was Supernatural, it would allow you to hit incorporeal creatures when you used it as it changes the attack into a Power Attack.
3. Not that it is relevant to this, but attacks do not require an attack roll. Only a subset of attacks have an attack roll. A Breath attack, for instance, does not typically have an attack roll. "Attack" is not exactly a well-defined concept in the game.
It can only be referred to as such. Smite Evil has no language that states its initial activation is a hostile effect that deals hit point damage, nor any language that states it transforms the attack mechanics to be treated as a Supernatural attack.
I can sit here and say Power Attacks are different from regular attacks until I am blue in the face, but what makes them different are the mechanics that are adjusted compared to the original ideal. If you have proof that says Smite Evil Attacks are considered magical/supernatural/spell-lik/whatever, then I'll concede. Until such evidence comes forth, the argument has no ground to stand on.
Power Attack is a feat that allows you to increase damage while decreasing your attack bonus. No language states it transforms the nature of the standard attack (only the modifiers used), so it doesn't change. Arcane Strike, on the other hand, says it makes the weapon magical. Even if it does function as a Supernatural effect, unless the weapon is magical or similarly empowered, Power Attack does nothing.
A Breath Weapon is not an attack roll that affects AC, the relevant definition used in this instance (which I thought I made perfectly clear; shows how well I do that). It's a hostile Supernatural effect that deals hit point damage. This would work even as an attack because the initial (and only) effect deals damage. Of course, if delivered through a non-magical or similar weapon, it wouldn't do anything anyway, because ethereals are immune to all forms of non-magical weapons (even those enhanced by Supernatural or Spell-Like Abilities that do not make the weapon magical).
It's immune to all forms of non magical attacks. Smite Evil enhances the non-magical attack. Thusly, it does not affect Ethereals unless the weapon is magical or of similar caliber.The weapon can not hit if it is not magical.
Where are you getting this? Because that's not what I'm getting from the entry on Incorporeal.
The only thing I can find to suggest that incorporeal creatures are unaffected by a non-magical weapon is the following passage:
[An incorporeal creature] can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.An incorporeal creature can only be harmed by magic weapons, et al. Hitting and harming are not the same thing last I checked. It is entirely possible to hit a creature yet not harm it.
It can be harmed by supernatural abilities. Smite Evil is a supernatural ability. Thusly, it can harm Incorporeals.
P.S. Incorporeal and Ethereal are not interchangeable.
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Alchemist Bombs definitely work. I believe Spell-strike should work, since it is merely altering how you deliver a spell (and spells work). Inquisitor Judgements would not work (but their 20th level ability would) -- they merely provide a buff.
My argument regarding Smite Evil largely hinges on the fact that it refers to attacks you make as "Smite Evil Attacks". Though, since someone pointed out that non-magical weapons are capable of hitting incorporeal creatures (they just do no damage), it maybe the case I am being overly restrictive.
Even being overly restrictive though, Judgements should not work, as they are purely buffs. Just like Divine Favor wouldn't work either. These do not change your attack. Being overly restrictive would mean that all of the Fire Strike examples I gave would work -- though one could argue that some of them might only deal the fire damage and no weapon damage.
These three statements almost perfectly explain why I think your argument has some merit but is far from iron-clad.
It needs to be iron-clad and apply to (Su) abilities uniformly for me to accept it.The Dev's may or may not do that. If they do I thank you for bringing it to light. If they do not I still thank you for the exercise in rules research and discussion. :)
Does Smite Evil allow you to hit incorporeal creatures even if the weapon is not magical.
White Incorporeality is not a form of DR so the quoted text may indicate no, Smite Evil is a Supernatural Ability. Supernatural Abilities CAN affect incorporeal creatures so Smite Evil and it's effects can as well.
It is not a factor of 'the weapon is not magic' but the 'Supernatural ability allows it'.
Smite Evil as a Supernatural Ability is an exeption.
It's immune to all forms of non magical attacks. Smite Evil enhances the non-magical attack. Thusly, it does not affect Ethereals unless the weapon is magical or of similar caliber.The weapon can not hit if it is not magical.
Where are you getting this? Because that's not what I'm getting from the entry on Incorporeal.
The only thing I can find to suggest that incorporeal creatures are unaffected by a non-magical weapon is the following passage:
[An incorporeal creature] can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.An incorporeal creature can only be harmed by magic weapons, et al. Hitting and harming are not the same thing last I checked. It is entirely possible to hit a creature yet not harm it.
It can be harmed by supernatural abilities. Smite Evil is a supernatural ability. Thusly, it can harm Incorporeals.
P.S. Incorporeal and Ethereal are not interchangeable.
Yet Smite Evil damage does not directly affect the Incorporeal like a Breath Weapon does(, and the base effect still has a 50% miss chance); it's transferred through the non-magical weapon. Incorporeals are immune to all forms (yes, ALL FORMS) of non-magical weapons, be they empowered by Smite Evil or not.
It doesn't matter what else you put on the weapon, if it's not magical, it doesn't work against incorporeals, period. Show me text that says Smite Evil makes weapons magical or makes attacks against the affected creature as a Supernatural effect. If you don't come up with this, how will you convince that it works the other way?
Smite Evil directly affects the Incorporeal when you Smite it with your weapon.
Show me the text that says Smite Evil does not adhere to the general rule that supernatural abilities can harm Incorporeals. If you don't come up with this, how will you convince that it works the other way?
Smite Evil directly affects the Incorporeal when you Smite it with your weapon.
Show me the text that says Smite Evil does not adhere to the general rule that supernatural abilities can harm Incorporeals. If you don't come up with this, how will you convince that it works the other way?
U dont smite evil with ur weapon though. U use a swift action to target/apply ur smite and u gain the benefits against the target of ur smite. 3.5 it was an atk that u smited evil with, but now u dont even have to atk something to smite it, u just target it.
Meaning the smite evil would hit the incorporal because its just a target (a target u can see with ur eyes) and u would gain the bonus to ac without even having to touch or atk said target. The actual atk doesnt have to go off or even happen for a creature or target to be effected by smite evil.Now if the smite effects makes ur atks supernatural, that is debateable with both sides bringing up good reasons. Id be nice to get an answer for this question.
With the wording, for all we nnow the smite evil could actually be the name of the phase of attacking mode (ex. Bloodlust, rage, frenzy) than the name for the actual attack. That would actually explain the smite evil atks in tje description since its worded the same way as a rage attack or a frenzy attack, or basically any phase attack modes.
Smite Evil directly affects the Incorporeal when you Smite it with your weapon.
Show me the text that says Smite Evil does not adhere to the general rule that supernatural abilities can harm Incorporeals. If you don't come up with this, how will you convince that it works the other way?
You did not read what I said. I said Smite Evil damage on its own doesn't directly affect the incorporeal like a Breath Weapon does, NOT that Smite Evil can't affect it period. Do I need to break it down again? Smite Evil's activation has no form of an attack and deals no damage, so it receives a 50% Miss Chance for application to even take place. Even once it's applied, the bearer's weapon must be magical or similar or the incorporeal is immune to the attack (and every modifier that comes with it, regardless of its source), and outright laughs at it. There is no language present in the description that even SUGGESTS Smite Evil applies such benefits to the character's attacks or weapons used, and without such abilities the incorporeal won't die.
Breath Weapon's activation, on the other hand, directly deals damage to those in its area so it simply deals 50% of the total damage. In addition, this damage was caused by the ACTIVATION of a Supernatural ability; thusly, the Breath Weapon will have an effect on the Incorporeal.
I made my argument clear and concise. I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about it. Copycating what the opposing side says is childish and immature. If you're going to argue a point, the least you could do is show you are serious about it instead of being a mocker.
Smite Evil directly affects the Incorporeal when you Smite it with your weapon.
Show me the text that says Smite Evil does not adhere to the general rule that supernatural abilities can harm Incorporeals. If you don't come up with this, how will you convince that it works the other way?
You did not read what I said. I said Smite Evil damage on its own doesn't directly affect the incorporeal like a Breath Weapon does, NOT that Smite Evil can't affect it period. Do I need to break it down again? Smite Evil's activation has no form of an attack and deals no damage, so it receives a 50% Miss Chance for application to even take place. Even once it's applied, the bearer's weapon must be magical or similar or the incorporeal is immune to the attack (and every modifier that comes with it, regardless of its source), and outright laughs at it. There is no language present in the description that even SUGGESTS Smite Evil applies such benefits to the character's attacks or weapons used, and without such abilities the incorporeal won't die.
Breath Weapon's activation, on the other hand, directly deals damage to those in its area so it simply deals 50% of the total damage. In addition, this damage was caused by the ACTIVATION of a Supernatural ability; thusly, the Breath Weapon will have an effect on the Incorporeal.
I made my argument clear and concise. I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about it. Copycating what the opposing side says is childish and immature. If you're going to argue a point, the least you could do is show you are serious about it instead of being a mocker.
Your putting far to much thought into this, Darksol. It's quite simple.
1. Can supernatural abilities harm incorporeal creatures? Yes
2. Is Smite Evil a supernatural ability? Yes.
Therefore, the only logical conclusion we can draw from this is:
3. Smite Evil can harm incorporeal creatures.
Also, I wasn't mocking you, I was merely pointing out how easily your arguments can serve both positions.
I think ive figured out the wording of smite evil attacks.
What if smite evil is not an actual attack but a mode u are in similar to rage. When u are under rage, ur attacks are considered rage attacks but when u attack u are under the effects of rage (its buffs/debuffs) not actually activating rage each time u are attacking. So smite evil attacks could mean under the effects of smite evil (its buffs) when u attack its considered smite evil attacks because u are under the effects of the smite evil mode. U are not actually activating smite evil everytime u attack so u are not technically attack WITH smite evil, but under its effects.
Since in the description of smite evil, it states that the charecter gets a buff against target and can use his charisma mode to hit and add his ally level to his damage. Its states that THE charecter gains this, but doesnt say his weapon does because if he loses his weapon that he had when smite evil was used, he doesnt lose the buffs towards dmg/hit at all even if he uses another weapon.
Id sau that the charecter doesnt get to hit incorporal creatures with a nonmagic weapon because smite evil is a mode like rage that only effects the charecter and not his items/equipment.
BUT with that logic since its a supernatural buff mode for the charecter itself, I believe he could hit the incorporal with unarmed lethal attacks to dmg it that way with smite active since its a supernatural buff to the charecter and the unarmed attacks would be the charecter attacking, not an unmagical weapon.
So by that logic a xharecter without a magical weapon could still hit and dmg the incorporal but he would have to shealth or drop his weapon amd attack with his hands/body.
Smite Evil directly affects the Incorporeal when you Smite it with your weapon.
Show me the text that says Smite Evil does not adhere to the general rule that supernatural abilities can harm Incorporeals. If you don't come up with this, how will you convince that it works the other way?
You did not read what I said. I said Smite Evil damage on its own doesn't directly affect the incorporeal like a Breath Weapon does, NOT that Smite Evil can't affect it period. Do I need to break it down again? Smite Evil's activation has no form of an attack and deals no damage, so it receives a 50% Miss Chance for application to even take place. Even once it's applied, the bearer's weapon must be magical or similar or the incorporeal is immune to the attack (and every modifier that comes with it, regardless of its source), and outright laughs at it. There is no language present in the description that even SUGGESTS Smite Evil applies such benefits to the character's attacks or weapons used, and without such abilities the incorporeal won't die.
Breath Weapon's activation, on the other hand, directly deals damage to those in its area so it simply deals 50% of the total damage. In addition, this damage was caused by the ACTIVATION of a Supernatural ability; thusly, the Breath Weapon will have an effect on the Incorporeal.
I made my argument clear and concise. I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about it. Copycating what the opposing side says is childish and immature. If you're going to argue a point, the least you could do is show you are serious about it instead of being a mocker.
Your putting far to much thought into this, Darksol. It's quite simple.
1. Can supernatural abilities harm incorporeal creatures? Yes
2. Is Smite Evil a supernatural ability? Yes.Therefore, the only logical conclusion we can draw from this is:
3. Smite Evil can harm incorporeal creatures.
Also, I wasn't mocking you, I was merely...
Can they? Yes. This was never stipulated. Do they? Not always.
Again, mechanics for Smite Evil in 3.X are different from Pathfinder, and this issue is entirely brought up because we think the mechanics for 3.X should apply for Pathfinder. That's not the case here.
If this was 3.X, then Smite Evil would work with a non-magical weapon as it directly attacks a creature, dealing extra damage and other goodies. This Supernatural effect would affect an incorporeal due that the Supernatural effect is an attack of itself.
Smite Evil in Pathfinder, on the other hand, targets a creature, and depending upon the type of creature, it allows the Paladin to deal extra damage and bypass DR of that creature on a given melee attack (hence the phrase "Smite Evil Attacks"). It also grants the Paladin an increased bonus to AC against attacks of that creature.
Now then, what's the difference between the two versions? The first counts as an actual attack of the Supernatural descriptor that provides bonuses versus evil creatures. The second counts as a hostile effect placed upon a creature; with the proper alignment and types, it makes the Paladin deal extra damage with each successful swing, bypasses DR, and a deflection bonus equal to the Paladin's Charisma modifier.
Firstly, let me start by saying that the Smite Evil in Pathfinder is not an actual attack. The one in 3.X is, but this isn't 3.X we're talking about. Secondly, Smite Evil in Pathfinder has no language or other indicator that changes the nature of a regular attack, whereas the Smite Evil in 3.X does. In addition, Smite Evil in Pathfinder is not limited to one attack, whereas 3.X is. Pathfinder's Smite Evil also provides DR bypass, an expanded scaling of bonus damage, and a scaling Deflection Bonus to AC against that creature. None of these perks are present in the 3.X version of Smite Evil.
These two versions may be similar in a way, but we're comparing a human being to a monkey here. Two completely different breeds of animal, these simians (and Smite Evils).
So what conclusions can we draw from this?
1. 3.X sets a precedent for Pathfinder, but it's never a given unless unclear.
2. Smite Evil damage in 3.X affects Incorporeal creatures, regardless of weapon type.
3. Smite Evil damage in Pathfinder is dependant upon the weapon used being magical, so it doesn't always affect Incorporeal creatures.
4. Smite Evil in Pathfinder is different than Smite Evil in 3.X, and superior in every (sensible) way.
If this breakdown still somehow doesn't make any sense or provide a clear answer, then I'm better off waiting until a Dev makes an input, because I'm otherwise just wasting time on this.
Can they? Yes. This was never stipulated. Do they? Not always.
Really? In what situations would a supernatural ability, say a breath weapon, not harm an Incorporeal creature?
1. Can supernatural abilities harm incorporeal creatures? Yes.
2. Do all supernatural abilities automatically harm incorporeal creatures? No. (There are plenty of Su effects that provide buffs, and not attacks.)
So, supernatural abilities like buffs, that do not cause harm, do not cause harm to incorporeals. Can't argue with a tautalogy like that, conceded.
What about supernatural abilities that do cause harm? Do they all harm incorporeal creatures? If not, where might I look to determine which ones?
Can they? Yes. This was never stipulated. Do they? Not always.Really? In what situations would a supernatural ability, say a breath weapon, not harm an Incorporeal creature?
1. Can supernatural abilities harm incorporeal creatures? Yes.
2. Do all supernatural abilities automatically harm incorporeal creatures? No. (There are plenty of Su effects that provide buffs, and not attacks.)So, supernatural abilities like buffs, that do not cause harm, do not cause harm to incorporeals. Can't argue with a tautalogy like that, conceded.
What about supernatural abilities that do cause harm? Do they all harm incorporeal creatures? If not, where might I look to determine which ones?
As per the Incorporeal quality, if a damaging attack if magical (includes supernatural attacks and effects) and is not one of a handful of notable exceptions, that damage is halved. If, however, it's a non-damaging effect, like Smite Evil, there's a 50% chance the effect just doesn't do anything to the incorporeal target. That would be the case here too if Smite Evil affected an enemy rather than the paladin. The ability provides bonuses to AC, attack rolls, and damage for the user; nowhere in the description of the ability is it talking about doing anything to the paladin's smite target with the initial swift action activation (same as the less powerful / more versatile inquisitors judgement). And even if it was something that's hitting the target specifically, it is not a supernatural attack but instead a supernatural ability to debuff the enemy that does nothing to get around the incorporeal quality. If Seelah were swinging her +3 longsword against a high-level barbarian ghost she'd smited, she'd get through its DR/- but the damage from her blade and all its modifiers in the end would still be halved.
On the other hand, there is the Warding magical armor property. Whether or not this is affecting smite and similar effects on the wearer or ends the buff on the paladin / cavalier / whatever might turn out to have interesting implications.
Official Rules Response
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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qv0
Paladin: Does smite evil bypass the defenses of the incorporeal special quality?
Smite is not an effect on the weapon, it is an effect on the paladin. The weapon still needs to be magic to harm the incorporeal creature, and even a magic weapon still only deals half damage against it.
ty for the response
I agree. I always thought that Smite required a target that the Paladin receives these benefits from, but at least it clarifies the 50% miss chance rule that I thought applied.
Define "targeted ability." Because the game doesn't.
Define "targeted ability." Because the game doesn't.
The closest thing to "targeted ability" in the rules would be spells with "Target: xxx" entry (which is relevant when interacting with certain effects, such as spell turning) - obviously not the same as general definition of targeted abilities.
Like I said, the game doesn't have a definition for "targeted ability." (Because if it did, it wouldn't have to use language like, "the spell modified by this feat must be one that targets one or more creatures.")
Smite is more like a buff, that allows you to select who is affected by its benefits.
That is why I brought up the ranger(guide archetype) before because it can choose how to apply the bonus to attack and damage against.