2. She's embarrassed that her husband is involved in the hobby and would prefer if I played poker or something else. She said many times she doesn't want to tell her friends when they ask what I'm doing during the times she goes out while we are gaming.
I'm glad you two had an at least semi-sensible discussion about the issue (though the minis comment is still kind of a cheap shot). But on this issue here, the solution is pretty easy. She can just tell anyone who asks that the guys get together for game night and leave it at that. Most people who think of poker first will think of poker. Most who think of sports will think of sports. And it's relatively rare that people will ask for elaboration.
I think just watching, not playing, a session would be a good help to your wife. That may be difficult since you do have a child to watch, but I'm sure some arrangement could be worked out (hiring a babysitter one night), just so she can have an understanding of what is going on, not just overhearing parts of conversation or seeing the minis and filling in the holes with the pre-established judgements she didn't choose to have programmed into her.
Yeah, I've wondered how exactly to explain my gaming to my fiancée. I she has been in the same general location as when I've played, but only caught a few words of a somewhat dark adventure. I've asked to play and am not offended by her turning it down, but we still have some friction about it.
To your comment, Ellis, I've tried to explain it roleplaying by asking new players who they want to be. If they assume that the game world functions more or less like the real world, PCs *should* be able to overcome just about any problem placed in front them.
I'm glad you two had an at least semi-sensible discussion about the issue (though the minis comment is still kind of a cheap shot). But on this issue here, the solution is pretty easy. She can just tell anyone who asks that the guys get together for game night and leave it at that. Most people who think of poker first will think of poker. Most who think of sports will think of sports. And it's relatively rare that people will ask for elaboration.
2. She's embarrassed that her husband is involved in the hobby and would prefer if I played poker or something else. She said many times she doesn't want to tell her friends when they ask what I'm doing during the times she goes out while we are gaming.
Another one "roll dice".
Gamers will know, others may think you are into gambling and shooting cheaters.
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She had several things that she said about it.
1. She thinks the minis are ridiculous and something our son should be playing with them, not "grown men."
2. She's embarrassed that her husband is involved in the hobby and would prefer if I played poker or something else. She said many times she doesn't want to tell her friends when they ask what I'm doing during the times she goes out while we are gaming.
3. She said she would prefer me to spend that extra time with her. After talking on this topic, I reminded her how much time her and I spend together and this is really the only time I hang out with my friends... To which she actually agreed with because she realized how much I take her out to dinners/movies etc.
4. She would prefer for me to cut it shorter because it takes up most the day. I agreed that I would try to cut it to 6 hours, but I had to explain to her that some of the time we are gaming, it's us catching up on each others lives since we all work and have families. During this point I tried to talk her into playing with me but she refused.
One thing I want to note is that during the conversation she goes "The last time you guys gamed, you all were constantly laughing about the dumbest s***. I heard and it didn't sound entertaining or fun." My...
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I am sorry and not trying to be mean in anyway, but those mean-spirited, ignorant comments from her, sound like they are coming from someone who is very uptight, and too self conscious to know how to relax and have fun. Even if dnd is not a person's cup of tea, to be ashamed of one's spouse for playing the game and to belittle them because she deems your sense of humor or what you value as fun to be dumb s*** is extremely childish, much more childish than playing a game invented and intended for adults(dnd)That said you obviously love her, or at least I would hope so seeing as you are married, I don't know what to tell you to do, but it seems like her real issue is she is unable to disassociate the classic bias exhibited by many people against table-top games.
I really can't see what advice to give to deal with someone who so insensitively intolerant of what you choose to do with such a small portion of your time, suggesting something like poker further shows she is perhaps attempting to force "normalcy", sad really, but that's the world a lot of people want to live in.
Perhaps it is a culmination of other issues she has with the relationship and subconciously channels it into something she disliked from the start? Either way no matter how gently or kindly she is expressing these opinions, they are mostly, at least at face value, petty and immature, we can all get that way sometimes, but you'll need to dig deeper to figure out if it's really her being superficial about her own image, or if she is venting frustration from other issues with the marriage, or whatever else may be fueling her seemingly petty complaints.
Again, I'm really trying not to be insulting, just trying to be objective, best of luck mate, and you could always remind her that she could be dealing with gamer who is ALSO a drug addict like my wife did before I got clean :P
*edited to separate quote from OP's last post
Yeah, a pal of mine had a wonderful partner who gamed with him.
Then she turned to drugs, and cheated on him repeatedly.
It could be a lot worse!
Yeah, a pal of mine had a wonderful partner who gamed with him.
Then she turned to drugs, and cheated on him repeatedly.
It could be a lot worse!
Sounds like my kind of girl!
I was too busy doing heroine to cheat :P
If you are having to have long games because you are chatting about your various lives, might I offer a suggestion?
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Most importantly - talk to your wife about this. Make sure she understands that you don't understand the mocking - you don't mock her hobbies (I'm guessing here). Explain that this is a hobby that you enjoy, and it's one of the few times that you get together with your friends. There are several advantages to gaming:
1. You are home - she knows where you're at. You're not out drinking at a bar spending large amounts of money every night.
2. It promotes problem-solving skills. I have avoided several real-life arguments because of being able to deal with gaming diplomacy.
I would also ask her what brought about the change. As you mentioned, she used to tolerate gaming. Why change now? In my experience most people who mock the game don't understand it, or never played it. Invite her to play. By invtiting her, she might realize that you're willing to include her into something you enjoy doing. If that doesn't work, ask her to explain why she doesn't like the game. The better you understand her point of view, the more likely you will be able to resolve the situation. Hope this helps and good luck!
Sounds like your talk with her helped a bit!
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Im lucky that my signifigant other doesn't mind my gaming. She doesn't like it, and i know she would never play it, but she understands that its MY time. She's even helped me write a part of my campaign (shes a better writer than i am) . The only things she does not endorse are the minis. She thinks that they are a money pit, and that if im playing a game that relies on a vast amount of imagination, i should be able to play with something much cheaper, like paper or coins. Which is totally fair.
I have been GMing for about 12 years now and my wife hates it. I am at the point that I don't know what to do. She used to tolerate it and now more and more she mocks me about it or will have an argument about it. Our group gets together for aboit 6-8 hours every 2-3 weeks. A good portion of the game we are just socializing and chit chatting, but my wife just thinks we are acting like kids who don't want to grow up. I am 27 and we have one kid. Does anyone have any advise on what I could do? I feel like we argue about something that I have done for a long time and love doing.
Fist off I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Can't be easy.
Question: When you first started dating your wife-to-be were you a gamer? If so did you hide that from her for as long as you were able? Did you skip game sessions to be with her?
I see this more often in gamers who started out not forthcoming with wives or girlfriends about their hobby. Some people are a bit embarrassed about the hobby, it’s natural. But at what point in the relationship do you let her know that, hey I like to roll dice and make pretend?
If this is the case just let her know that you held back in expositing your hobby to her because you were afraid of being ridiculed and demeaned. And by her current behavior you were right. If she always felt you would “grow out of it”, well that is not reasonable.
Also gaming sounds super stupid if you are not actively playing. So game else ware if you can. Look, she already hates it, having her listen to grown men dork around a table rolling dice probably adds fuel to the fire. And before you guys jump on me for saying that it sounds stupid just imagine yourself in the same room as a bunch of people doing a 6-8 hour fantasy football draft.
If gaming at someone else’s house is not an option make sure you are up to date on your Honey-do list. Ask your fellow gamers to be respectful and leave the house cleaner then you arrived. This goes a long way!
It’s bizarre how gaming has to put up with this kind of ridicule when other hobbyists spend more time and money hunting, watching football, or working on cars. But I digress...
I wish you well
-MD
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Snarky male stereotypes aside, you need to communicate to her that you are not going to stop gaming, and that you think it is severely inconsiderate of her to try to change you in that way. Explain to her that you love her, but it is not an unreasonable demand on time, and that it is up to her what she tells her friends about your hobbies. After that, refer back to this talk every single time she brings it up. Tell her that you already had that talk, and your view has not changed, nor will it.
Seriously... a relationship where you can't tolerate someone's hobbies because they are not manly enough has deeper issues than how you spend every other saturday.
Im lucky that my signifigant other doesn't mind my gaming. She doesn't like it, and i know she would never play it, but she understands that its MY time. She's even helped me write a part of my campaign (shes a better writer than i am) . The only things she does not endorse are the minis. She thinks that they are a money pit, and that if im playing a game that relies on a vast amount of imagination, i should be able to play with something much cheaper, like paper or coins. Which is totally fair.
Minis are a money pit, and unnecessary. I remember when they tried to implement them in third ed. The groups I've been in have always laughed at that shallow attempt to get us to spend more money.
You want to keep track of play? White board.
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I was too busy doing heroine to cheat :P
A fellow heroine addict! (I'm particular fond of Cate Archer and Jeanne d'Arc)
Ahhh, mizzz Archer!
I was too busy doing heroine to cheat :PA fellow heroine addict! (I'm particular fond of Cate Archer and Jeanne d'Arc)
Oh yeah, I had a real Nancy Drew kick back in grade school, but I'm mostly clean now.
Im lucky that my signifigant other doesn't mind my gaming. She doesn't like it, and i know she would never play it, but she understands that its MY time. She's even helped me write a part of my campaign (shes a better writer than i am) . The only things she does not endorse are the minis. She thinks that they are a money pit, and that if im playing a game that relies on a vast amount of imagination, i should be able to play with something much cheaper, like paper or coins. Which is totally fair.Minis are a money pit, and unnecessary. I remember when they tried to implement them in third ed. The groups I've been in have always laughed at that shallow attempt to get us to spend more money.
You want to keep track of play? White board.
For some of us, the miniatures are a useful and interesting hobbie in and of themselves. The fact that we can use them to enhance our own enjoyment of playing RPGs is a great bonus. Not everybody enjoys this tangentially related hobby, obviously.
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To me, miniatures are a money grab, nothing more. Although, since I've GMed for at least 6-7 D&D game days (even for 4E when it just came out), I've got loads of free miniatures that came with scenarios.
Also, my players love to pick out miniatures and have me or another player hand paint them. That is fun. Makes them feel special.
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Again - BOTH SCENARIOS ARE COMPLETLY MADE UP. I...
Change. Yes, Change. If it's too far in the CHANGE direction for one person perhaps you aren't getting it.
alright, Blackbot, this sort of post is what private messaging is for. I'd be happy to explain myself on a private channel. Perhaps your grevience towards how I feel would be addressed and perfectly explained through a PM?
Perhaps I could say that the OP's problems with his wife are problems he should take responsibility for and find a way to resolve the problem? You don't like that either, I suppose. Oh, if you knew, you could move mountains. But alas . . .
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I'd be happy to discuss this in PM form, though I also suspect that we just have extremly different opinions on this.
You are wrong, though: What you said in this very post is something I strongly agree with. Taking responsibility for a problem is something very mature and something that has to be done - and the way I say it he does, by adressing it, asking for help and all in all admitting that this problem is something he can't solve by himself, at least not in a satisfying way.
But "Taking responsibility for a problem and solve it" is something completly different than "Change for her, she completes you", because to be sure that she does we know far too little.
Anyways, let's head over to PM for now ;)
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Women don't hate gaming. Women get jealous of how you are spending your time. If she says she hates gaming, what she means is that she doesn't feel valued. So value her more.
In the interest of equality, guys like to feel valued too. A good start is not to call our hobbies stupid. :)
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Next time the wife makes a comment about how 'grown men' don't 'play with minis', you might want to explain the history of warfare training to her, and how games have been a part of every military war training curriculum for centuries, from Chess to Go to the miniatures combat simulations that lead to D&D in the first place.
Some judicious searches on GOOGLE will turn up a lot more ammunition, pun forgiven.
I would hate to tell some of the famous men that enjoy the hobby that they are being childish in doing so, although some may see that as a strength of it, and that they need to find something manly instead. Just saying.
*Insert picture of famous person that your significant other probably likes here.*
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Hi! This ticked me off so much I had my husband create me an alias to post under. The wife knew you and your hobbies when she agreed to date and marry you. She agreed to "better or worse" not until your hobby makes her happy. So she can just take a pill and relax a minute. I assume from your post that you're spending time with her and the kid. You're not fooling around, wasting money on tramps, or gambling needlessly. Sh#t could always be worse. As a gamer's wife/girlfriend for over 11 years now, I love my husband in his entirety - are there some things I like more than others, absolutely, but he's my best friend and gaming is part of who he is. How and if she explains to her friends is her issue. It has nothing to do with you. Her picking fights simply is not fair to you, her, or the relationship. If she has a legit gripe, it's not about the game or your time at the game - she needs to spill and let you know the real reason she's upset 'cause I promise you, there's something else behind it. You sound like you rarely game as is and I really hate to see that because you need to have your outlet just as she needs hers. Suggest she have a girls' night or something with her friends that you're strictly not involved in preferably during the game or that night. Best of luck getting this resolved. :)
Women don't hate gaming. Women get jealous of how you are spending your time. If she says she hates gaming, what she means is that she doesn't feel valued. So value her more.
In my friend's case, she does hate it. She actually hopes that her friends who don't already know about his hobby don't find out for fear of embarrassment.
Trust me, I've thought the same things before.
I'm just glad that my amazing gamer wife is into rps as well and even plays in some games here with me.
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I could not help but figure the percentages of time that 6 or 8 hours of gaming every 2 or 3 weeks would be. Travel is not factored in since you can see it would not really change much from the low numbers anyway.
6 Hours every 2 weeks
1.78%
8 Hours every 2 weeks
2.38%
6 Hours every 3 weeks
1.19%
8 Hours every 3 weeks
1.58%
Pick one and defend it in your aim to win the day with math.
Did you remove time for sleep and work from those percentages?
Did you remove time for sleep and work from those percentages?
Those activities do not matter in the above percentages. It is up to the person to take the information above, along with all other schedule specific knowledge, and factor what to do with the data when presenting an argument for the cause to their significant other. Or not.
What about time buying books/minis? Any time spent learning the game, reading new books, time spent on these forums? Do you spend any time outside of the game to build characters or adventures?
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1. She thinks the minis are ridiculous and something our son should be playing with them, not "grown men."
Regarding miniatures specifically, Peter Cushing would disagree :)
Regarding roleplaying (and for a more contemporary role model), Vin Diesel is a big fan of D&D (link 1, link 2).
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The importance of 'play' is immesurable no matter what age category you're in. If you've made it to a point in your life where there is no 'play' then things would seem pretty bleak. I wonder what the OP's wife's version of play is.
I also agree that IMHO gaming is far more productive and fulfilling play than hitting the bars and clubs but really the comparison ends up being 'what do you hope to get out of it...'
What makes what you've chosen as your version of 'play' the one you've chosen. The way the OP phrased his wife's behavior implies she not only does not have her own version of 'play' but that she considers the life of a mature adult to be inferior if it includes 'fun activities that she personally finds immature'... Does she truly not have any outlets of her own? Are all of her outlets 'mature' outlets?
Theres no doubt gaming isnt 'an evening at the Metropolitan Opera, but if gaming is 'doing what you enjoy' then its absolutely 'an evening at the Met'...
She should either be able to equate your hobby with the the fact that she enjoys her own hobbies, or if she has no similar outlets she might need to find some. She either needs to learn to find some 'enjoyable play' that suits her or she needs to realize that the 'enjoyable play' she already has is similar to what you get out of gaming and isnt a bad thing.
See if any of the other guys' wives/girlfriends you game with are part of a stitch 'n b%%!& (or other creative social outlet) group and see if your wife is interested in hanging out with them.
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The importance of 'play' is immesurable no matter what age category you're in. If you've made it to a point in your life where there is no 'play' then things would seem pretty bleak.
I absolutely agree, and that is based on my own desire to play and also the theory and opinions that I have assimilated from my wife who is a psychotherapist trained in play therapy.
Retaining the ability to play as an adult is very important - those who lose such an ability, or who feel insecure about doing so, are missing out on important means to relieve stress and also to build relationships with friends and potentially more importantly, with their children (if they have any).
Regarding roleplaying (and for a more contemporary role model), Vin Diesel is a big fan of D&D (link 1, link 2).So wait, are arguing it is or it isn't immature?
I am arguing that it is a hobby that is (or at least should be) acceptable for "grown men" (and of course grown women) to play. The examples of Peter Cushing and Vin Diesel were to show that successful adults do play these games.
Me personally, I have never been ashamed of the fact that I roleplay, I am a proud geek :) The key is to not show embarrassment if someone tries to make fun of it ("Yeah I play D&D, and...?????") and try to explain that it is a social activity that affords those involved a chance to "play" - just like people who have poker nights or play Sunday league football etc.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Respect for the choices of others is rare, especially regarding leisure activities. Maybe there are other problems, beneath the surface of this seemingly fickle tantrum?
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I learned way, way back as a kid that tolerance of other people's hobbies was a key step in growing up.
As a kid I collected baseball cards. That was before collecting baseball cards was a potential profit mechanism. Back then it was just "wasting money".
But more than that. My brother and I created and played a baseball card GAME using those baseball cards. We spent hours pretending to play baseball with our heroes. Today people do a remarkably similar activity but it's called "Fantasy Baseball" and it's cool. Back then it was just something else for people to snicker at us.
I also read comic books, flew kites, played chess and go (yeah, "go", back in the early 70s NOBODY played "go")...
Then I picked up the trombone and joined the junior high school marching band.
By the time I got to playing RPGs I had already fully cemented my status as "king of the nerds."
When people gave me grief about my "silly hobbies" I pointed out that it would be very, very difficult to come up with something more silly than grown men chasing a leather ball around, banging a ball with sticks or trying to stuff a leather ball in a basket.
Pretty much every hobby is silly if you look at it objectively.
I was too busy doing heroine to cheat :PA fellow heroine addict! (I'm particular fond of Cate Archer and Jeanne d'Arc)
I preferred distilled poppy mash extracted into powder, but d'Arc was cool too :P
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This conversation began back at the beginning of the month, and reading through the first page and some change, I see nothing but bad advice. I hope you are not taking any of it.
I hope even more that by now somebody has mentioned counseling, or you have thought of it yourself. (Actually, as I'm writing, I see LazarX has also mentioned this - good.)
You said your wife has merely "tolerated" your gaming for 12 long years now. Since gaming is very important to you, that makes this a pretty delicate (to say the least) situation. Probably a very volatile one. No advice you can get on this board is worth a damn aside from this: take yourself and your wife to a professional.
Your wife should not be mocking you about anything. Couples argue and fight, and getting things out is healthy. But mocking the person you are married to is NOT healthy, and it's a very, very bad sign. A sign that this is beyond the Forums to cure.
Go get help.
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Snarky male stereotypes aside, you need to communicate to her that you are not going to stop gaming, and that you think it is severely inconsiderate of her to try to change you in that way. Explain to her that you love her, but it is not an unreasonable demand on time, and that it is up to her what she tells her friends about your hobbies. After that, refer back to this talk every single time she brings it up. Tell her that you already had that talk, and your view has not changed, nor will it.
Seriously... a relationship where you can't tolerate someone's hobbies because they are not manly enough has deeper issues than how you spend every other saturday.
This^^^