Channel while Paralyzed?

[littlehewy]

Incorrect. They're simply about the act of presenting. Nothing to do with vision.

[blackbloodtroll]

The suggestion is there.

[YogoZuno]

I think you're drawing a long bow there, blackblood.

I am certainly starting to agree that Channelling involves a physical action. I guess it's like a spring-loaded wrist sheath in a way - you have to make a specific motion to trigger the effect.

Thanks for all of the discussion.

[Teclathel Faulanrael]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Thing is, that implies one could not Channel in Supernatural Darkness.

In fact, that implies line of sight, and others to hear them.

Now, when did the need for sight/hearing become required?

Do you need to be able to see/hear to Channel?

Do you need to be able to have others see/hear you to be effected by Channel?

I apologize if I was unclear. I was not implying line of sight or being heard was required to channel. I was implying, however, that presenting a holy symbol, as a cleric is required to do, was indeed a physical act that must be taken on the account of the cleric in order to channel. Almost, but not exactly like, a somantic component of a spell (somantic components being precise gestures required for many spells). It's the exact same thing as a bard having to do a song or dance to perform a bardic performance, or a dragon having to open it's mouth to use it's breath attack.

I think the problem here is you seem to be a little too literal with disrupting. Disrupting (please note: I am NOT talking about the weapon special ability), in Pathfinder, is performing an act against a spellcaster who is in the midst of casting a spell and causing them to have to make a concentration check or lose their spell (most likely by inserting some cold steel into their warm fleshy bits). A Supernatural Ability, as stated, is a magical effect but not a spell-like effect so disrupting doesn't come into play. Paralyzing someone, which we would normally in the real world say is very disruptive to their day, is not disruptive in Pathfinder in that it does not cause them to have to make a concentration check. So, while paralysis is not disruptive in the Pathfinder sense, it will stop dead in its tracks anything that requires undertaking a physical act, no matter how minor, to perform (this is, of course, subject to common sense rulings regarding holding items and would thus be up to the GM in terms of whether or not you are in danger of dropping something, keeping in mind your fingers, toes, tentacles, etc. are now locked in place).

[Xaratherus]

I might allow a Cleric who had channeled on the previous turn, and then was paralyzed after the fact, to continue channeling while paralyzed; in that instance, the Cleric may be paralyzed in a position where he was 'presenting' his symbol.

But I agree that 'presenting' implies some sort of physical gesture with the holy symbol (even if that just means you're just holding it out in front of you).

For those with the Birthmark trait, depending on where it was located, I would probably rule that they were always 'presenting'; for example, I played an Aasimar Cleric of Sarenrae who had a gold-colored birthmark of Sarenrae's emblem on his face (almost like a mask), and would probably have considered him to always be presenting his symbol.

[amethal]

Xaratherus wrote:

I might allow a Cleric who had channeled on the previous turn, and then was paralyzed after the fact, to continue channeling while paralyzed; in that instance, the Cleric may be paralyzed in a position where he was 'presenting' his symbol.

Thread necromancy on a 9 year old thread, but that exact situation came up in our last session.

My character boldly presented his holy symbol and channelled energy against a room full of zombies. The zombies' mohrg master was next in the initiative order and promptly paralysed me. The GM accepted that the symbol was still being presented (for what it's worth I had fully intended to channel again the next round) and allowed me to carry on channelling energy as a purely mental action for the rest of the fight.

I'm still not sure what the "correct" answer is.

[Azothath]

amethal wrote:

Xaratherus wrote:

I might allow a Cleric who had channeled on the previous turn, and then was paralyzed after the fact, to continue channeling while paralyzed; in that instance, the Cleric may be paralyzed in a position where he was 'presenting' his symbol.

Thread necromancy on a 9 year old thread, but that exact situation came up in our last session.

My character boldly presented his holy symbol and channelled energy against a room full of zombies. The zombies' mohrg master was next in the initiative order and promptly paralysed me. The GM accepted that the symbol was still being presented (for what it's worth I had fully intended to channel again the next round) and allowed me to carry on channelling energy as a purely mental action for the rest of the fight.

I'm still not sure what the "correct" answer is.

the one your Home GM made in his Home Game...

[vhok]

yes you can channel while paralyzed as long as you can present your holy symbol. birthmark on the face is popular for this.

[YogoZuno]

vhok wrote:

yes you can channel while paralyzed as long as you can present your holy symbol. birthmark on the face is popular for this.

It depends on whether or not you believe 'presenting' an item can be done without moving. I personally don't believe you could, regardless of where the holy symbol is. Never really had a definitive answer.

Also had a real shock of dejavu when I saw the thread title. Had a laugh when I saw I started it :)

[Anguish]

When you're sick, you may be presenting symptoms; exhibiting evidence of.

To me, a cleric who's got a holy symbol on a necklace would be enough. Basically so long as it's visible, it's presented.

If the rules wanted you to do something, they'd say you need a hand free or something.

[vhok]

YogoZuno wrote:

vhok wrote:

yes you can channel while paralyzed as long as you can present your holy symbol. birthmark on the face is popular for this.

It depends on whether or not you believe 'presenting' an item can be done without moving. I personally don't believe you could, regardless of where the holy symbol is. Never really had a definitive answer.

Also had a real shock of dejavu when I saw the thread title. Had a laugh when I saw I started it :)

how do you present a birthmark on your face?

[YogoZuno]

vhok wrote:

how do you present a birthmark on your face?

Thrust that side of your face forwards boldly?

How does one present a holy symbol around your neck? It's not like the rules are explicit in the description, but given that an action is described, it seems unlikely that the ability is mental only to me. YMMV. There is certainly no RAW answer.

[YogoZuno]

Anguish wrote:

To me, a cleric who's got a holy symbol on a necklace would be enough. Basically so long as it's visible, it's presented.

If that's the case, wouldn't the ability be triggering constantly as the cleric walks down the street?

Quote:

If the rules wanted you to do something, they'd say you need a hand free or something.

You are making a lot of assumptions. Perhaps they specifically DIDN'T want you to have to use a hand, and that's why it's not mentioned, allowing sword and board clerics to still channel?

The actual ability text reads 'A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.' Note that you don't have to actually present, just be able to present. What is the difference? Who knows. There certainly doesn't appear to be a concrete RAW answer.

[vhok]

YogoZuno wrote:

Anguish wrote:

To me, a cleric who's got a holy symbol on a necklace would be enough. Basically so long as it's visible, it's presented.

If that's the case, wouldn't the ability be triggering constantly as the cleric walks down the street?

what ability? presenting your holy symbol? that's not an ability.

[Mysterious Stranger]

The requirement is to present you holy symbol, not to have your holy symbol present.

[vhok]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The requirement is to present you holy symbol, not to have your holy symbol present.

i'll repeat my question then. how do you present a birthmark on your face?

[Lelomenia]

vhok wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The requirement is to present you holy symbol, not to have your holy symbol present.

i'll repeat my question then. how do you present a birthmark on your face?

point at it. Frame around it with your hands. Lean it toward where it is being presented. Lots of great RP options.

[Name Violation]

I've always thought of channel being like "the power of christ compells you" scene fron the Exorcist, but with more flashes of light.

You gotta be loud and determined. No "um, excuse me, Mr diety, sir, um, sorry to bother you, but if maybe you don't mind, and maybe you're not too busy,could you please spare a tiny bit of healing. Please. Sir."

I'm talking full on televangelist invoking the name of their LORD and channeling their Lord's power threw them. You don't just present a holy symbol, you BRANDISH it proudly and with conviction. Like He-Man calling the power of Grayskull. Like Lion-o calling the Thundercats.

Simply holding or showing it isn't enough.

Also, the "how do you present your face" thing just makes me think of the old Madonna video Vogue.

[Pizza Lord]

Anguish wrote:

When you're sick, you may be presenting symptoms; exhibiting evidence of.

To me, a cleric who's got a holy symbol on a necklace would be enough. Basically so long as it's visible, it's presented.

There's a difference between something being present and something being presented. You can have symptoms present, (because you're ill), but you could be concealing them (because you don't want people to know you're ill).

Having a tattoo, or necklace, or holy symbol visible is not the same as it being presented. You can have a picture on a wall, but that's not the same as holding it up or setting it in the middle of the room or right in front of everyone. There's a difference between presenting someone to a room and someone being present in a room.

Channel requires you to be able to present your holy symbol (we're not talking about corner case rarities or unique ways to channel or special holy symbols that don't actually exist as objects). If you can't take the action or complete the required steps to do something that you're required to do to Channel, then you can't channel.

Anguish wrote:

If the rules wanted you to do something, they'd say you need a hand free or something.

But they do tell you what you need to do in order to complete the activity. You need to present your holy symbol. Just because it's part of the action taken itself and isn't an action doesn't mean it isn't a requirement. Just because presenting a holy symbol doesn't have an action cost in and of itself (because the act or motion is described as occurring as part of another activity) doesn't mean it doesn't require the ability to physically do something.

Even things aren't aren't specifically actions (not an action, meaning they don't have a specific action name, like 'standard', 'movement', 'swift', etc.) can't be done while paralyzed if they require physical movement. Usually these are things that are done while taking an action and not usually on their own. If they were done purposefully on their own by themselves, a GM could reasonably rule them as a move action or anything else (depending on the activity).

Not An Action wrote:

Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don’t take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else, such as nocking an arrow as part of an attack with a bow.

Nocking a bow is not an action when you go to fire a bow, but if a player said on their turn they wanted to specifically and deliberately nock an arrow and draw back or nock an arrow and point threatening at someone but not fire, then a GM could rule that as taking a move action. Either way, you'd still have to have the ability to nock an arrow, which for purposes of this thread (being paralyzed), you can't do.

If you had a magical bow that glowed like a torch for 2 rounds, whenever you nocked an arrow (which would also happen every time you fire the bow), it glows. Every time you didn't fire it, but said to your GM that you were nocking an arrow, it would glow. If you're paralyzed, you can't nock an arrow in the bow and make it light up (to help you allies see in the dark), because that requires physical action (not an action, ie. movement, standard, swift, etc), which you can't do while paralyzed.

If you were under some spell or magical compulsion that specifically prevented you from 'nocking an arrow', then you can't fire your bow (unless someone else nocks an arrow or somehow puts an arrow into the bow). The fact that you aren't prevented from firing a bow or taking an attack action or even restricted from taking physical activity doesn't matter. You can't do the thing required to perform or complete another thing (as normally done for the action).