I understand that the pebbles created by the spell are primarily designed to be used in a sling. However, one of my players wanted to use it thrown by hand. Are the pebbles created considered simple weapons in a sling and improvised weapons (-4 to hit)if thrown by hand? It says "make a normal ranged attack". My player argues that the magic imbued by the spell confers to the user that ability to throw the stone without penalty by hand. I disagree. Thoughts anyone? Official rules call from a Paizo rep?
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Like the dagger, they have a range increment when thrown, therefore they don't suffer the penalty. and since its a sling bullet sized item, I would say they are simple so anybody can just throw them without the sling
Given that the spell description itself says
You transmute as many as three pebbles, which can be no larger than sling bullets, so that they strike with great force when thrown or slung.
I think it's a stretch to say the spell doesn't intend the bullets to be thrown.
I have been reading other posts around talking about rocks being thrown. rocks/stones/pebbles are non crafted items, not designed to be used as weapons and therefore seem to be covered under the "improvised weapons' category. They are not listed among the "thrown weapons category". Sling bullets are listed as weapon ammunition. I think the spell was designed to allow the caster create ammunition for his sling (which is a simple weapon and on his trained proficiency list). It's the thrown part that I have a reservation with. It would mean that the spell transmutes 3 small rocks/pebbles by imbuing them with magic that increases their damage, increases their range increment, and imbues the person using them with the feat "Throw Anything" which allows them to use improvised weapons without a penalty. My concern is that Magic Stone is a low level spell that creates magic weapons that can be given to and used by anyone in the party. It says in the spell "make a normal ranged attack". A normal ranged attack with an improvised weapon (thrown) incurs a -4 penalty to hit. Thoughts?
it also says you can use a sling or throw the stones, and gives an increment, much as the dagger is a weapon that can be thrown without a special feat. As long as they have simple weapon for the dagger, but its in the spell for the magic stone
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Michael, enchanting three stones to be throw was the initial function of the spell when it was created in the first edition.
Magic StoneSchool transmutation; Level cleric 1, druid 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range touch
Targets up to three pebbles touched
Duration 30 minutes or until discharged
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes (harmless, object)
You transmute as many as three pebbles, which can be no larger than sling bullets, so that they strike with great force when thrown or slung. If hurled, they have a range increment of 20 feet. If slung, treat them as sling bullets (range increment 50 feet). The spell gives them a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The user of the stones makes a normal ranged attack. Each stone that hits deals 1d6+1 points of damage (including the spell's enhancement bonus), or 2d6+2 points against undead.
The spell clearly states that the stones can be hurled with a range increment of 20 feet and that they make a normal ranged attack.
I think a throwing rock is a simple weapon,
Thank you for the thoughts. I guess it comes down to...Is a thrown rock a simple or improvised weapon. There seems to be no clear literature on this matter. The only clear literature is that a rock is not listed on the thrown weapons or simple weapons list.
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If you search throwing rocks you find only the monster ability and the oracle ability.
I think the last one is telling:
Rock Throwing (Ex): You are an accomplished rock thrower and have a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown rocks. You can hurl rocks up to two categories smaller than your own size. The range increment for a rock is 20 feet, and you can hurl it up to 5 range increments. Damage for a hurled rock is 2d4 for a Medium creature or 2d3 for a Small creature, plus 1-1/2 your Strength bonus.
You get a ability that specifically give you a bonus when throwing rocks, but that nowhere cite removing the improvised weapon penalty or giving a weapon proficiency in throwing rocks.
So what you think is the more credible option:
- the oracle ability give you a +1 for throwing rocks and you suffer for a -4 as the rock is a weapon in which you aren't proficient, for a -3 total;
or
- whoever wrote that oracle mystery thought that a throw rock was a weapon available to Oracles, so a simple weapon?
This thread has some interesting comment on it.
Nosig post at the end seem a good interpretation. Even in line with previous editions where the halflings where accomplished rock throwers always keeping some choice throwing rock in their pockets.
Thank you everyone for your comments.
The spell makes the rock throwable. As for other rocks, it's a matter of how big they are and whether they're of the right shape. After all, is there anything easier to throw than a cricket ball (or baseball, or pool ball, according to taste)? And a suitably sized rock is functionally the same.