
I Hate Nickelback |
Hello, I hate Nickelback.
I was reading some of Ravingdork's characters, and I came across a necromancer of his. It made me do two things. First, now I want to make a minionmancer. Second, how on Golarion, as a 15th level oracle, does that character raise 196 HD of undead!? I want my guy to do that!

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Eh, maybe not...I can get 95 without trying hard (Undead Lord Feat + Animate Dead + the Undead Servitude Revelation) add in another 30 with Control Undead and another 15 with Raise The Dead, and you're starting to get pretty close. That's 140...though only for a few rounds a day. And Juju Oracles can get 114 all day long...
I dunno the exact method, but it seems possible it's legit.

Writer |

The amount of undead you can control is based upon your caster level. But there's a loophole in which feats and traits allow you to treat your caster level as higher for purposes of a single spell, ergo Animate Dead. So you can be a level 15 Juju Oracle with an effective caster level of 15, but when using Animate Dead it jumps to 22 for the purposes of that spell, which includes how many undead you can create/control via Animate Dead.
Personally, with templates like Frostfallen which is specifically written to allow applying them via Animate Undead, the 6HD per level is plenty for a Juju Oracle.

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The amount of undead you can control is based upon your caster level. But there's a loophole in which feats and traits allow you to treat your caster level as higher for purposes of a single spell, ergo Animate Dead. So you can be a level 15 Juju Oracle with an effective caster level of 15, but when using Animate Dead it jumps to 22 for the purposes of that spell, which includes how many undead you can create/control via Animate Dead.
That only nets you 156 by my calculations (26*6)...but that plus another thing or two'll probably do it, yeah.

Writer |

I believe This is the build in question. Courtesy of Zenith Games and Ravingdork (don't tell me I don't give credit). It has been mentioned (by James Jacobs I believe) that the creation of non-evil undead wasn't intended for Pathfinder, but there has yet to be an official errata or Faq that I can find so do with that what you will.

Writer |

They almost never release errata, save for hardcovers, and they do not do FAQs of campaign setting material. James' word is as good as a FAQ due to that.
Cheese, misinterpretation of the rules...close enough.
Ergo for those who treat James Jacob's words as canon, it has been officially fixed. For those who don't, it has not. I will say I have yet to find a DM (society or otherwise) who won't let me create non-evil undead. YMMV.

I Hate Nickelback |
Ok. Lets change the topic of this thread...
I have a character concept, but I just don't know how to make it. First of all, my GM's campaign is evil, and, because I'll be the party leader, he's letting my PC be a graveknight. Now, the concept: I want 4 things, and I realize that they're difficult to combine.
First and foremost, I want to capable in melee. It shouldn't be too difficult with the graveknight's +6 to STR. A close second on my list of priorities is being a capable minionmancer. That's why I was wondering how RD got that many HD of undead. Thirdly, I want to do some blasting, if for no other reason than it fits my character concept. Lastly, and I'm not too concerned about this as it isn't very important to me, I'd like to be a capable summoner (i.e. summon monster I-IX).
I envision my character as being an ancient evil, a capable caster, but able to swing in melee too. Because of how old he'll be, he'll utilize words of power. That is one thing that I will not alter in my build. Everything else is flexible. I was going to go human purely for the feat, but any race that can't fly is an option if you think it would work better. One last note, I strongly prefer spontaneous casters, but if that gets in the way of getting 9th level spells, then wizard/cleric it is.
Thanks in advance,
I Hate Nickelback

Tinalles |
Not to re-rail the derailment, but ...
I just spent some time studying the Araonna statblock that Writer linked above. I can't make the numbers work either -- the best I can make it do is 180 HD of undead at level 15.
The character is a Juju Oracle, and has the Spirit Vessels revelation which entitles her to control 6 HD of undead per caster level.
Her base caster level is 15. In addition, she has feats and equipment that improve that:
- Undead Master gives a +4 bonus effective caster level for purposes of controlling undead via Animate Dead and Command Undead
- Varisian Tattoo (Necromancy) gives a +1 bonus to all necromancy spells
- Spell Specialization (Animate Dead) gives a +2 bonus to CL for this specific spell
- She has an embedded orange prism ioun stone granting +1 CL on all spells
- Lastly, Spell Perfection (Animate Dead) *doubles* all the bonuses from her feats.
So it works out to:
CL 15 base
+8 Undead Master
+2 Varisian Tattoo
+4 Spell Specialization
+1 orange prism ioun stone
= CL 30 for Animate Dead.
30 * 6 = 180 HD.
Now, that's already a ridiculously high amount of undead for one person to field. But the character sheet indicates 196 HD for Animate Dead. I don't know where RavingDork's getting the remaining 16 HD.
Maybe a math error? 196 isn't evenly divisible by 6. The PC would need an effective CL of 32 and two thirds to get exactly 196. A CL of 32 would be 192, or 33 would be 198.
Or maybe there's a flat bonus from a trait or something that I'm not seeing.

Doomed Hero |

First and foremost, I want to capable in melee. It shouldn't be too difficult with the graveknight's +6 to STR. A close second on my list of priorities is being a capable minionmancer. That's why I was wondering how RD got that many HD of undead. Thirdly, I want to do some blasting, if for no other reason than it fits my character concept. Lastly, and I'm not too concerned about this as it isn't very important to me, I'd like to be a capable summoner (i.e. summon monster I-IX).
So you want to DO ALL TEH THINGS?
Lets see-
First, be an Antipaladin. Look into the Lord of Darkness archetype. It's pretty neat but it's 3rd party so your GM might not allow it (Fire Mountain Games is the company that wrote Way of the Wicked. They're really impressive and good at balance). Take 1 level of Thug rogue. Trust me.
Take the Dangerously Curious trait and max out UMD.
Take Power Attack and Cornugon Smash. Now you hit like a truck, and with every hit you can either send them running in terror, or force them to obey you.
Fiendish Boon covers the Summon side of things. Take the Huntsmaster feat and Boon Companion to significantly boost the power of your minion (that one extra level goes a long way)
Next, take Command Undead. You can Channel with two uses of Corrupting Touch (you might want to take the feat that gives you extra Touches). Now you can take control of undead you run into.
Cast Animate Dead with scrolls and UMD. You won't have a ton of minions, but you'll have enough. Pick up a few wands that fit your theme. This is how you'll get to be a blaster. A wand of Fireballs will pretty much cover it.
If you want to be able to summon more stuff, get scrolls or wands.

Ravingdork |

Most likely an error. It has been known to me for some time now. I've gone over it several times and can't get it to add up either. I haven't fixed it yet though, as I want to make absolutely certain that I'm not just overlooking something obscure.
It bothers me greatly that I don't recall how I came up with that number.
Is it possible that I included the HD control from her Command Undead feat?
(I'm not dead, just spent a long weekend playing Minecraft with my friends.)

Ravingdork |

Burning? Do you you mean bloodied? They are considered double for the purposes of how many you can create at a time, not for ongoing control.
but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.

Kyoni |

For your build... if it has to be arcane... maybe look at Gravewalker-Witch and Hexcrafter-Magus. Both have hex-progression and should stack for advancing hex-related stuff... the Magus spell list is plenty blasty and he can actually channel his magic through his weapon in melee.
However Magus doesn't get any undead controll spells... so you'll only have a bunch of Minions through Hexes:
Bonethrall, Possess Undead, Summon Spirit
Maybe you can talk your DM into trading all [Curse] Spells you'd get from Hexcrafter for your the Gravewalker bonus spells to add to your Magus Spell List? Seems like a fair trade to me... some of those [Curses] out there kick ass.
Otherwise you can add Wizard spells to your Magus spell list through that magus arcana (or feat which gives you a new magus arcana).
But I do think a straight Oracle with the appropriate choices would still be your best option (not as blasty though) for a Minion-Mastering Melee-capable Guy.
Brand (0) touch
Ill Omen (1) close
Disfiguring Touch (2) touch
Feast of Ashes (2) close
Blindness-Deafness (2) medium
Bestow Curse (3) touch
Malediction (3) touch
Cup of Dust (3) close
Eldritch Fever (3) close
Brand, Greater (4) touch
Black Spot*** (4) touch
Curse of Magic Negation (4) medium
Curse of Disgust (5) close
Mark of Justice (5) touch
Curse, Major (5) close
Eyebite (6) close
I'd rather have those instead of a Minions... for a Necromantic evil feeling they are great. But if Minions is your thing...