I roll all my iterative attacks along with all damage dice simultaneously. I have color coded them so that all the red dice are the first attack, the black dice the second attack, the white dice the third attack, etc.
Sometimes that means I roll over a dozen dice.
It's strangely satisfying...
It requires a certain critical mass of dice to bother me.
E.g.:
Rolling a d20 for an attack followed by a d8 for damage --> doesn't bother me.
Rolling a d6 ten times in a row for a 10d6 fireball --> drives me nuts.
Well, I'm a GM and I've purchased dice by the gross in the past for games I attempted to market, so I've got dice to burn.
But even so, buying a few different colored sets of dice isn't a real problem these days.
use 3x5 cards with modifiers on them and add them up
use a tablet version of hero lab and check on/off various modifiers to instantly tabulate attacks
use a character sheet with multiple modifier-affected versions of common attacks such as your regular attack, your regular attack with Power Attack added, etc.
and yes please be ready on your turn with your dice ready to roll
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Equally as annoying is when the wizard's player says "I cast Leucomorph's Laganetic Lightning!" And then proceeds to look through books and/or PDFs for the next 15 minutes to see if it allows a Will save or SR or whatever. My houserule is that if you don't know what your spell does when you cast it, then the casting fails.
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Equally as annoying is when the wizard's player says "I cast Leucomorph's Laganetic Lightning!" And then proceeds to look through books and/or PDFs for the next 15 minutes to see if it allows a Will save or SR or whatever. My houserule is that if you don't know what your spell does when you cast it, then the casting fails.
I'm gonna start using this in my game.
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I roll all my iterative attacks along with all damage dice simultaneously. I have color coded them so that all the red dice are the first attack, the black dice the second attack, the white dice the third attack, etc.
Sometimes that means I roll over a dozen dice.
It's strangely satisfying...
Fine in theory, but iterative attacks are taken consecutively with enough time between each attack to see the result of the attack you just made before you decide on the target of your next attack.
Imagine you are adjacent to three baddies. You want to take the BBEG down as a priority, but as soon as he falls then you can spread the other attacks around.
You have three iteratives. The BBEG falls after the first two. With your system, you've already seen what your d20 roll for the third attack is. If it's low, you can choose to attack the wizard with rubbish AC; if it's high you can choose to attack the heavily armoured henchman.
This is essentially cheating! Okay, you could state a long list of 'what ifs' before you roll any attacks, but at that point it would be quicker to roll them one at a time.
Technically you are right Malachi, and if that situation exists I'll usually roll separately. I don't generally post every possible exception to any general comment I make on these boards.
There's no need, because someone will hunt them out anyway.
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This is essentially cheating! Okay, you could state a long list of 'what ifs' before you roll any attacks, but at that point it would be quicker to roll them one at a time.
I agree that "over-rollers" can be as annoying as "under-rollers".
Recently, we had this type of situation:
GM: Roll two Fort saves...
Player: I got a 14 and a 2!
GM: ...um, one was supposed to be for paralysis and one for disease. Okay, I'll roll a d6 -- 1-3 means the 14 is the paralysis save, 4-6 means it's the disease save.
the gm could just use their words and say okay, roll one fort save for one affliction, then a second for another different affliction
is that over-explaining or under-explaining
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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These are my table rules for my Carrion Crown campaign. I use a variant of these for any game I run. As I mentioned above, they address this very issue; I thought I'd share them here for public consumption.
What's the difference between House Rules and Table Rules? House rules are rules within the game. House rules include special rules for things like character creation and advancement. Table rules are rules about the game. They are guidelines for play that help the group run smoother and, hopefully, everyone have more fun.
Mood: In a gothic horror campaign like the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, maintaining the right mood is critically important. Have you ever sat through a horror movie in which someone in the theater kept cracking jokes? It kind of ruined the experience, didn't it? Horror adventures are much the same. You don't have to be wrist-slittingly somber at all times--but please keep the mood in the back of your mind and don't spoil the fun for other players by breaking the mood inappropriately.
Initiative: Know what you are doing before your turn comes up in the initiative order. That implies paying attention to the fight when it’s not your turn so you know what is going on. Declare your action at the beginning of your turn. A combat round is only 6 seconds, so if you take too long to declare an action, I will start counting down. If you haven’t declared an action before the countdown ends, you delay by default and can reenter the initiative order after anyone else's turn. Think fast! I will be more lenient if you are the first one to act in combat.
Attack and Damage Rolls: To speed combats, please roll your attack and damage dice together, using same colored dice for each attack. If you have multiple attacks due to a feat or high base attack bonus, indicate beforehand which attack bonus applies to which color dice, then roll them all at once.
Spells, Special Attacks, Special Abilities: If you are casting a spell, using a special ability, performing a combat maneuver, or doing some other special attack or action, please have the rulebook open to the relevant page (or have the rule pulled up on d20pfsrd.com) when your turn comes up in the initiative order. Again, I will be more lenient if you are the first one to act in combat.
Talking in Combat: Speaking is a free action. Free actions can only be taken when it is your turn. That means that in combat, you can only talk to your fellow party members when it is your turn—no instantly formulating ten minutes’ worth of tactics in 6 seconds worth of combat. I enforce this rule strictly. However, you are permitted and encouraged to help other players with rules questions, etc. The telepathy special ability and spells such as telepathic bond allow instantaneous communication, even when it is not your turn, and can therefore be used to circumvent this restriction.
Electronics: Laptops and tablet PCs are welcome at the table for game use--but please don't let them be a distraction to yourself or other players. Players are highly encouraged to make use of d20pfsrd.com as a rules reference.
Dice Etiquette: Please roll the dice where everyone can see them and don't handle them again until they're read. Reroll leaners and dice that land off the table. Don't roll dice into any area in which there are miniatures.
Miniature Etiquette: We use miniatures that people have spent hours painting. Please don't do anything that could damage the minis. In particular, don't pick up more than one mini in your hand unless you can do it without them touching. Or else it will really turn into a horror game as the GM goes homicidally insane.
It annoys me (I use adamantine dragons method with some "if...then... statements when necessary). Sadly the rest of my group enjoy the drama of stretching it out. :/
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I roll all my iterative attacks along with all damage dice simultaneously. I have color coded them so that all the red dice are the first attack, the black dice the second attack, the white dice the third attack, etc.
Sometimes that means I roll over a dozen dice.
It's strangely satisfying...
Fine in theory, but iterative attacks are taken consecutively with enough time between each attack to see the result of the attack you just made before you decide on the target of your next attack.
Imagine you are adjacent to three baddies. You want to take the BBEG down as a priority, but as soon as he falls then you can spread the other attacks around.
You have three iteratives. The BBEG falls after the first two. With your system, you've already seen what your d20 roll for the third attack is. If it's low, you can choose to attack the wizard with rubbish AC; if it's high you can choose to attack the heavily armoured henchman.
This is essentially cheating! Okay, you could state a long list of 'what ifs' before you roll any attacks, but at that point it would be quicker to roll them one at a time.
Since you declare your action before rolling this is easily solved by not allowing the PC to say "I attack all 3". He needs to say I attack BBEG, henchman, and wizard." Whatever order he says it in thats the order of who is attacked.
edit: or he points to each and says "1, 2, 3"
That won't work.
I don't want to decide who I'm attacking second until after I know the result of the first. That affects my decision.
Also, all this working out 'what ifs' slows the game down more than rolling consecutively.
I also hate it when I'm just about to finish off the BBEG, after months of chasing him, when the DM says, 'Dont bother rolling damage, he's dead even if you roll minimum'. It's like I've been robbed of the kill! I enjoy rolling damage! If I just rolled a x4 crit I want to roll dem bones even if the enemy only has 1 hit point left!
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I don't know why you're making it more complicated than it really is.
If you simply say I'm attacking BBEG till killed and after 2 hits he goes down then obviously your 3rd attack goes on to target #2
...unless he explodes on dying, killing his two henchmen and damaging me, so if I still have 30 hit points or more I'll 5-foot step to another baddy and attack him, or if none are left standing within a 5-foot step then I'll Quick Draw darts and use the remainder of my attacks with them, silver ones if the wererats are still vertical but human-bane if not. This means that I should also roll some colour-coded d4s as well as d8s for the second attack onwards. If I have fewer than 30 hit points then I'll abandon my full attack and get a move action instead, which I'll use to either draw a potion of healing ready for next round or, if I have fewer than 10 hit points I'll use it to move my speed to get to the cleric. If the cleric is down then I'll...
'JUST ROLL THE DAMNED DICE, FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD!!!'
Sometimes rolling consecutively is quicker. : )
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Again you are making this far too complicated. Your attacks are on YOUR turn, so why would your hit points suddenly change during your attack?
If you're doing multiple attacks you can't move anyway as that's a full round action.
1. Immediate actions like death throes can damage you between attacks. (See frost worm for 20d6 damage.)
2. You are allowed to 5ft step between attacks in a full-attack.
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Again you are making this far too complicated. Your attacks are on YOUR turn, so why would your hit points suddenly change during your attack?
The BBEG exploded upon death. That's why I got damaged during my turn, and why the situation changed after my actions were declared.
If you're doing multiple attacks you can't move anyway as that's a full round action.
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
"Target 1, 2, 3" and specify if attacks on a target are till they are dead. This isn't rocket science.
Actions have consequences, and I don't want to take my own choices away when my action (first attacks) change that situation in ways that I couldn't have predicted at the start of my turn.
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Another negative of rolling all of your attacks simultaneously:-
I have three iteratives. I roll them all. I see that the second and third d20s rolled a '1'. I then take a move action instead of the attacks I know will miss.
This is an abuse. Are you going to forbid this? Then you've taken a legitimate choice away from the player; wrong either way!
I understand the desire for efficiency, but not at the expense of the game.
The way we play it, it's the players discretion. I'm not forced to roll all my attacks, so when I think I might like to "wait and see" I just roll the first. Often though, there's not going to be a choice.
If i decide to go one at a time, I'll still have my subsequent dice out, ready to go (I also colour code my dice pools). I'll also roll my damage dice with my to hit rolls.
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As was already said, you would have declared your actions. If you suddenly change them because you rolled 1s then its obvious to everyone you are attempting to avoid your (potential) fumbles.Another negative of rolling all of your attacks simultaneously:-
I have three iteratives. I roll them all. I see that the second and third d20s rolled a '1'. I then take a move action instead of the attacks I know will miss.
This is an abuse. Are you going to forbid this? Then you've taken a legitimate choice away from the player; wrong either way!
I understand the desire for efficiency, but not at the expense of the game.
After my first attack but before my second, I can take a move action instead of my remaining attacks. Rolling all of them together either denies me that option or let's me see the rolls before I decide. Either way is wrong, but each for different reasons.
Mostly, I think this is right on. However, there are some situations like iterative attacks that can fog this up. As said above your first attack drops the BBG now you have two left and you can already see the results. Usually, however, reasonable people can hash this out.
There are some other problems, however, feats such as cleave or abilities that require you to say you are using them before knowing the results of the dice, etc.
On the whole, however, being ready if better than not being ready.
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So you want the option mid round to decide whether you're going to move or full attack based on the first roll. How about the DM makes you declare it at start like he should?
Because he has that option by the rules.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
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So you want the option mid round to decide whether you're going to move or full attack based on the first roll.
Want it? I already have that option. It's in the rules!
How about the DM makes you declare it at start like he should?
He shouldn't!
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
EDIT: Ninja'd!
I hate it when my friend, who isn't stupid and has no problem with mental math away from the table, calls herself stupid and refuses to use the basic addition herself...
Bonuses waste of time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolling waste of time.
I have one guy who flat out refuses to add up bonuses. I have no idea why. I told him to have it all ready on his sheet or lose all bonuses. Generally, this means rolling 1d6 or 1d8 damage. I am sure he will learn quickly. Those rolling damage separately don't annoy me. Just make sure you have every die you might need ready from the start of the session and "digging" time will be pretty minimal. And adding up 45 dice doesn't take long, especially if people help, which they do.
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I don't recall where I found it but here is something that might makes players lives easier.
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Bonuses waste of time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolling waste of time.
I have one guy who flat out refuses to add up bonuses. I have no idea why. I told him to have it all ready on his sheet or lose all bonuses. Generally, this means rolling 1d6 or 1d8 damage. I am sure he will learn quickly. Those rolling damage separately don't annoy me. Just make sure you have every die you might need ready from the start of the session and "digging" time will be pretty minimal. And adding up 45 dice doesn't take long, especially if people help, which they do.
Really? I would flat out refuse to wait for him to add all that stuff. Start adding bonuses during your turn? You delay. Next!
@silverhair2008
This. Is. Awesome.
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I don't recall where I found it but here is something that might makes players lives easier.
This really is awesome!
It's so awesome that it makes we want to learn how to turn it into an actual sheet of paper that I can use, instead of just a picture on my phone!
@ Hama & Malachi,
I have given copies to several of my players but few put forth the effort to use it to its full intent.
Malachi, if you also have a computer with printer attached send it in an email to yourself and then print it out. Apologies if I offended you.
I am glad you liked the form.
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@ Hama & Malachi,
I have given copies to several of my players but few put forth the effort to use it to its full intent.Malachi, if you also have a computer with printer attached send it in an email to yourself and then print it out. Apologies if I offended you.
I am glad you liked the form.
I have a laptop, but no printer nor much idea of what I'm doing.
I can't imagine how you thought you'd offended me. :)
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@ Hama & Malachi,
I have given copies to several of my players but few put forth the effort to use it to its full intent.Malachi, if you also have a computer with printer attached send it in an email to yourself and then print it out. Apologies if I offended you.
I am glad you liked the form.
I have a laptop, but no printer nor much idea of what I'm doing.
I can't imagine how you thought you'd offended me. :)
Take it to a printing center?
@Malachi,
Some people would have taken offense that I presumed to tell a computer user how to print something from the 'net. I didn't know whether you were a computer savant or like me a computer illiterate.
Hama's suggestion is a good one. May I suggest that you transfer the PDF/file to a USB Flashdrive and take it to a Kinko's or other place that will print it out for you. I had some heavy card stock around and printed it on that. I found it stands up to frequent erasure longer than regular paper. Some people have suggested that on areas where players' erase a lot to put some scotch tape. It allows you to write and erase with little or no damage to the paper. The matte finish type works best.
Just my 2 cp.