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Expect high burst damage but lower sustained damage than a fighter or barbarian.
The kensai is a magus that focuses on mastering a single weapon, but sacrifices the ability to wear armor and some some of he spell slots. He should eventually have a very high touch AC and an extremely high initiative.
My group did a little bit of PVP last session just for fun in an arena.
We have an optimized Kensai/Bladebound Magus and my PC who is an optimized 2h fighter/barbarian who went at it.
The problem that I ran into was I rolled a low initiative at the outset and this allowed the Magus to promptly vanish and buff himself up. My barbarian went into a rage and used his Scent rage power to try to track the magus down (he also has blind-fighting).
Basically I wasted about 4 rounds chasing the magus around with scent unable to do much more than move and sniff without actually being able to attack him. He buffed up, got within 10 feet of me, 5 foot step and unleashed hell on my character who was backed into a corner fighting defensively. The magus had his scimitar keen and crit and shocking grasp taking out about 3/4 of my hit points with his first full attack. Since I was fighting defensively I could only take one attack and hit him for about 1/4 of his hps. Next round he finished me off easily.
We learned it all came down to the initiative. If my PC had the initiative, then I think I could have really put the hurt on him, but as it was he had all the time in the world to run me in circles while he got himself all gussied up and ready to kick my arse. Magus is a powerful class, any class can be powerful if properly optimized and played with smart tactics like the other member of our group did to me.
I've also decided that I need to stop relying on the other members of the party or my blind-fighting to be able to fight invisible foes. I'll be grabbing some bags of flower ASAP!
The Magus is a solid Tier 2 class.
To me it's one of the most fun classes to play because it is a flawless synthesis of two disparate playstyles: martials and casters. You get all the crunchy combat goodness, lots of dice to roll, and big numbers to show like martials without being hamstrung by a reliance on another player to provide buffs or utility.
What does a superstition/beast totem/come and get me/invulnerable rager barbarian do against a flying enemy? A)Hope someone casts FLY on him or B)Pout in the corner. Magus just casts fly on himself and ZOOM saves the day.
That said, there are certain Magus builds and/or gimmicks that are just better. Intensified shocking grasp spam? Check. Reliance upon Mirror Image for defense? Check. Absolute dominance of the action economy (this side of the Psychic Warrior), heck yes!
Kensai is cool and all, but if you want to be a dex magus I'd go Dervish Dance (feat) and Bladebound archetype. You'll be more reliant on spell damage, but you'll also have more arcane versatility.
Magus (Kensai/Spell Dancer)....
Also; what are kensai/spell dancer lol
I'm pretty sure Kensai/Spell Dancer is an illegal archetype combination, they both give up Medium and Heavy armour proficiency so they can't be combined. Though your GM may have house-ruled a way around this.
I'd personally place Magus in the upper level of tier 3.
Like others have mentioned, the burst damage of a well-designed Magus who uses Spell Combat and Spellstrike to its full potential is terrifying. That said, I think the class is well balanced. Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.
Overall the class IMO is definitely one of the stronger ones, with a fair amount of versatility and strong burst damage. With Spell Blending arcana, the class can extend the known spells to include some nice utilitarian wizard spells.
I'm playing an elven dex/int kensai magus, and so far it has been a real blast. He's 6th right, but at 7th is when the class and archetype really starts to shine (3rd level spells AND +Int to Initiative!). Group haste for lots of fun (although it doesn't work with Spell Combat, boo).
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Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.
Why?
Depending on point buy and build they can have a difficult first couple of levels(Str based have AC problems Dex based lack their defining feat) but after that their burst potential and survivability(but generally being a round behind most fron liners they don't want to melee without some form of short term buff although spell dancer helps that out a lot) they do extremely well from about 5-11(12) and then bow out to the pure casters(like most classes) with one exception. The hexcrafter magus can use his hexes to keep him in the game moving from burst damage to battlefield control/save or suck mage in armor pretty easily.
That's an outstanding summary of Magus performance.
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Ive only seen one in play once before but he was equally levelled and had more HP than the Barbarian in our group. Is this class typically very powerful in general as compared to the other classes?
Is there any particular build that is more powerful than others? The game Im playing in now, someone's taken a Magus (Kensai/Spell Dancer) and I was curious before I see the character in action, what to expect as to how badass he will be.
Also; what are kensai/spell dancer lol
Currently I'm playing a Suli Magus (Elemental Knight) in the Reign of Winter...
I would say the first 4 levels are....blah? Not.."Un-fun", but not exciting. The class has only a little to work with at first, generally being a lesser spellcaster and lesser fighter combined.
Basically, in levels 1-4 I was continuously being out-damagaged by a Rogue making Sneak Attacks, and a Witch using a Pistol as a Familiar! I was generally left either as a damage sponge or distraction for the enemies.
Levels 5 and up? Awesomeness IMHO. At 5th level however, things really start gelling. Extra Magus Arcana (and the Combat Casting Feat) are your friend!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Everything that guy said.
Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.Why?
It's considered somewhat cheesy and probably not RAI.
The problem is that a second level magus needs a Touch range cantrip to use one of the primary class features effectively. If essentially gives them inferior TWF.
But the only Touch range cantrip is a nondamaging, noncombat spell.
Touch of fatigue would be an awesome Magus spell. If it were a magus spell at all.
Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.Why?It's considered somewhat cheesy and probably not RAI.
The problem is that a second level magus needs a Touch range cantrip to use one of the primary class features effectively. If essentially gives them inferior TWF.
But the only Touch range cantrip is a nondamaging, noncombat spell.
Touch of fatigue would be an awesome Magus spell. If it were a magus spell at all.
Spell Blending arcana is your friend. You could add ToF + another useful spell.
And when do I get that arcana?
I'm generally not fond of class features that need two more levels and burning additional class features to be useful. What is this, an "arcana tax"?
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Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.Why?It's considered somewhat cheesy and probably not RAI.
The problem is that a second level magus needs a Touch range cantrip to use one of the primary class features effectively. If essentially gives them inferior TWF.
But the only Touch range cantrip is a nondamaging, noncombat spell.
Touch of fatigue would be an awesome Magus spell. If it were a magus spell at all.
I used an arcana to grab touch of fatigue.
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Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.Why?It's considered somewhat cheesy and probably not RAI.
The problem is that a second level magus needs a Touch range cantrip to use one of the primary class features effectively. If essentially gives them inferior TWF.
But the only Touch range cantrip is a nondamaging, noncombat spell.
Touch of fatigue would be an awesome Magus spell. If it were a magus spell at all.
Magus: Can a magus use spell combat (page 10) with cantrips?
Yes. It is not limited to spells of level 1 or higher.
—Sean K Reynolds, 02/21/12
RAW and RAI. I would have greatly preferred a cantrip doing 1 point of elemental damage or some other limited effect to being forced to cast Arcane Mark, but the Devs have decided differently.
A DM can simply change the casting time of arcane mark to 1 round. Problem solved.
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A DM can simply change the casting time of arcane mark to 1 round. Problem solved.
What problem has been solved? nerfing one of the signature abilities of the magus?
The capacity to make 2 attacks at -2 if he can make a concentration check with a DC of 15 is part of the class. The only bad part about using Arcane Mark to do that is that you are writing in long lasting ink your name or personal symbol on the target, not a good in a lot of situations.
A DM can simply change the casting time of arcane mark to 1 round. Problem solved.What problem has been solved? nerfing one of the signature abilities of the magus?
The problem is some DMs feel arcane mark is cheesy, and if that is the case, changing the casting time makes it unusable for the magus, but still a functional spell in non-combat situations (which is really the RAI, IMO).
Personally, I don't have any issues with arcane mark, but I was offering a solution for those that do.
Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.Why?It's considered somewhat cheesy and probably not RAI.
The problem is that a second level magus needs a Touch range cantrip to use one of the primary class features effectively. If essentially gives them inferior TWF.
But the only Touch range cantrip is a nondamaging, noncombat spell.
Touch of fatigue would be an awesome Magus spell. If it were a magus spell at all.
Magus: Can a magus use spell combat (page 10) with cantrips?
Yes. It is not limited to spells of level 1 or higher.
—Sean K Reynolds, 02/21/12
RAW and RAI. I would have greatly preferred a cantrip doing 1 point of elemental damage or some other limited effect to being forced to cast Arcane Mark, but the Devs have decided differently.
That FAQ only regards cantrips in general though, I'd personally like to see a FAQ regarding Spellstrike and Arcane Mark specifically.
I have no problem with Magi using cantrips and spell combat. I do however think that RAI Arcane Mark is not intended to be a combat spell, it's not intended to do any form of damage and that going "it has range: touch, I can totally use it with Spellstrike to get a free attack every round" is a good example of applying RAW logic while ignoring RAI. If you do want to use cantrips and spellstrike then picking up the Close Range arcana and using acid splash or ray of frost is a perfectly valid option.
That said, arcane mark spellstrikes is not the topic of this thread and I don't really think there's much point going into it.
Just try to avoid the Arcane Mark-spellstrike.Why?It's considered somewhat cheesy and probably not RAI.
The problem is that a second level magus needs a Touch range cantrip to use one of the primary class features effectively. If essentially gives them inferior TWF.
But the only Touch range cantrip is a nondamaging, noncombat spell.
Touch of fatigue would be an awesome Magus spell. If it were a magus spell at all.
Magus: Can a magus use spell combat (page 10) with cantrips?
Yes. It is not limited to spells of level 1 or higher.
—Sean K Reynolds, 02/21/12
RAW and RAI. I would have greatly preferred a cantrip doing 1 point of elemental damage or some other limited effect to being forced to cast Arcane Mark, but the Devs have decided differently.
That FAQ only regards cantrips in general though, I'd personally like to see a FAQ regarding Spellstrike and Arcane Mark specifically. I have no problem with Magi using cantrips and spell combat.
However, I do think that RAI Arcane Mark is not intended to be a combat spell, it's not intended to do any form of damage and that going "it has range: touch, I can totally use it with Spellstrike to get a free attack every round" is a good example of applying RAW logic while not RAI. If you do want to use cantrips and spellstrike then it's not there aren't non-cheesy ways of doing it; the Close Range arcana and using ray of frost is a perfectly valid option, as is Broad Study and picking up other cantrips.
That said, arcane mark spellstrikes is not the topic of this thread and I don't really think there's much point going into it here.
[
Magus: Can a magus use spell combat (page 10) with cantrips?
Yes. It is not limited to spells of level 1 or higher.
—Sean K Reynolds, 02/21/12
RAW and RAI. I would have greatly preferred a cantrip doing 1 point of elemental damage or some other limited effect to being forced to cast Arcane Mark, but the Devs have decided differently.
It's certainly intended that the magus be able to spellstrike with cantrips. I don't think anyone actually sat down and thought about the available cantrips, though.
I think it's a design oversight. I think someone didn't talk to someone and no one noticed that there are no cantrips worth using with Spellstrike. (And that's not the sort of thing that will be fixed in a FAQ because it's not just answering a question, it's actually an erratum, which Paizo doesn't like to deal with until they can do a reprint.)
The problem is some DMs feel arcane mark is cheesy, and if that is the case, changing the casting time makes it unusable for the magus,A DM can simply change the casting time of arcane mark to 1 round. Problem solved.What problem has been solved? nerfing one of the signature abilities of the magus?
Basically, the problem that has been solved is "I am uncertain if my GM is a total dick." Making that house rule removes any possible doubt, as it essentially eliminates Spellstrike as a useful option for low-level magi. You don't have enough 1+ level combat spells to spam.
Since Spellstrike is basically just a nerfed Two Weapon Fighting (my first level monk can make two weapon attacks at first level without needing to make concentration checks, as can anyone who takes the feat), that's basically making the Magus' signature class feature worth less than a feat.
Personally I always felt like the magus could really benefit from getting more interesting touch spells, but Arcane Touch spells is a small niche since the majority of the arcane casters do not thrive in melee range. If Paizo released a cantrip with a melee touch attack and added it to the magus spell list I would have absolutely zero problem with a magus spellstriking that spell - I don't oppose the ability to use spellstrike with cantrips. Using Arcane Mark to Spellstrike on the other hand, it just rubs me the wrong way.
I prefer to use the close range arcana to hit them with acid splash or ray of frost (or disrupt undead if appropriate) in lieu of arcane mark... I'd rather deal more damage than do the Zorro-style Z thing on the bad guys.
Doesn't work with acid splash. Ray spells only.
Basically, the person who designed the magus had the attention to detail of a six-year-old.
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Personally I always felt like the magus could really benefit from getting more interesting touch spells, but Arcane Touch spells is a small niche since the majority of the arcane casters do not thrive in melee range. If Paizo released a cantrip with a melee touch attack and added it to the magus spell list I would have absolutely zero problem with a magus spellstriking that spell - I don't oppose the ability to use spellstrike with cantrips. Using Arcane Mark to Spellstrike on the other hand, it just rubs me the wrong way.
That's basically my opinion as well. I acknowledge that it's legitimate RAW, and it's also the only way RAW to use Spellstrike at low levels. I wish that the designers had simply said "all arcane [or sor/wiz] spells with range Touch are also on the Magus' spell list." Barring that, I wish they had actually put some useful thought into "which spells would a Magus logically try to learn and cast?"
No one looks at the Sor/Wiz spell list with an eye to combat-useful Touch spells and comes away with Arcane Mark. Especially not with Arcane Mark as the only option.
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Basically, the problem that has been solved is "I am uncertain if my GM is a total dick." Making that house rule removes any possible doubt, as it essentially eliminates Spellstrike as a useful option for low-level magi. You don't have enough 1+ level combat spells to spam.
Since Spellstrike is basically just a nerfed Two Weapon Fighting (my first level monk can make two weapon attacks at first level without needing to make concentration checks, as can anyone who takes the feat), that's basically making the Magus' signature class feature worth less than a feat.
I think that's very harshly worded. Spellstrike is considerably better than a feat even if you can't combine it with Arcane Touch, and calling anyone who is potentially an otherwise wonderful GM "a total dick" because he alters Arcane Mark to not work with spellstrike is both wrong and an insult to a large part of the community that does in fact ban the spellstrike & arcane mark combination.
Yes, the magus would benefit from having a legitimate 0th level melee touch spell.
Yes, it is sad that the Close Range Arcana specifies Rays (my group actually houserule-changed this) since the difference between a ray spell and a "ranged touch" spell are at times miniscule.
That said, he does have options to use cantrips with spellstrike. Broad Study and and the Close Range arcana both help cover the holes here.
Personally I have a magus in my RotRL campaign who uses Arcane Mark with spellstrike. I allowed it since I think it is good for the class to have the option, but I personally find it grating whenever he uses the spell to deal damage - in the future I will most likely design a melee attack cantrip for the magus and alter Arcane Mark to not work with Spellstrike.
In short, I think finding a cantrip to let Magi use Spellstrike reliably in a worthy goal. However, I don't think Arcane Mark is a particularly good way to reach that goal.
The Magus in the game I DM consistently does the most damage out of the entire party. Often he does more than the other 6 members put together. I don't think it's a case of the class being wildly overpowered though. The guy who plays him just knows the game really well and the other players are somewhat new to the game. He's also incredibly lucky with dice rolls.
It's a little frustrating for me as DM, as I don't want to penalise him for knowing how to build an effective character, but I think the other players get a bit annoyed at being outshone all the time.
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I prefer to use the close range arcana to hit them with acid splash or ray of frost (or disrupt undead if appropriate) in lieu of arcane mark... I'd rather deal more damage than do the Zorro-style Z thing on the bad guys.
Close Range (Ex): The magus can deliver ray spells that feature a ranged touch attack as melee touch spells. He can use a ranged touch attack spell that targets more than one creature (such as scorching ray), but he makes only one melee touch attack to deliver one of these ranged touch effects; additional ranged touch attacks from that spell are wasted and have no effect. These spells can be used with the spellstrike class feature.
acid splash - not a ray
ray of frost - okdisrupt undead - ok but situational
So, if you take an extra arcana you get to deliver either cold damage (and a lot of creatures have some form of resistance to cold) or you can damage an undead.
Where are the fire/acid/electricity rays?
Or you can spend an arcana to learn touch of fatigue and another spell.
but at third level when he can take the first arcana a magus don't know second level spells, so he is limited to 2 cantrips or 1 first level spell.
"Wasting" an arcana for 1 cantrip ....
Or he can wait till level 5 when he get 2 feats and take extra arcana to get a cantrip and a first level spell. But at that point the need for a cantrip that will allow him to use spell combat is less urgent.
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My only experiences with the Magus have been that they are very powerful, and typically outshone everyone else a lot of the time. Generally not everyone combined, but in the PFS games, they seemed designed very well to be good at a lot of the issues presented in a lot of scenarios, without needing to be very optimized. They do very well in combat, and did not really seem to have the same issues as other casters in needing to conserve resources, (well their better resources) throughout a game.
For my part, I do think the Arcane Mark/Light thing is very cheesy, and I really do not think that that was intentional in the class design. But that's just my opinion.
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Ive only seen one in play once before but he was equally levelled and had more HP than the Barbarian in our group. Is this class typically very powerful in general as compared to the other classes?
Is there any particular build that is more powerful than others? The game Im playing in now, someone's taken a Magus (Kensai/Spell Dancer) and I was curious before I see the character in action, what to expect as to how badass he will be.
Also; what are kensai/spell dancer lol
Last year while living in the Raleigh Durham area in NC, i got involved with the Pathfinder Society Organized Play group.
Two of my friends had Magus characters as did I. Sometimes we ended up at the same table.
One of my friends Magus I believe had a level of Bard, and the Dervish dancer feat. I believe his Magus had the Kensai arch-type. His character had a very high AC, and this character was devastating with her scimitar. With one critical hit, this character was able to "one shot" the big monster at the end of a 6-7 9-11 scenario i was GMing. My freinds character didn't have as much spell casting.
My other friend had a magus who wielded a whip, and used to trip disarm and steal things from opponents. I think he had his character use the frost bite spell, and a wand of true strike to great effect. I don't remember what arch-type this friend used.
I had made my magus with the play test materiel, and had no arch-types. My character wielded a bastard Sword and used a long bow. While I did't do the devastating damage the "whirling Dervish" did, nor control the battlefield with a whip.....my character could deal with a variety of threats my other Magus team mates couldn't deal very well with.
I had devoted two of my magus arcana to spell blending. I picked the spells see invisibility and Dark vision. Eventually my character purchased a Goz Mask so he could see through fog and sleet storms etc. My character could deal with air born threats, pound opponents at range with evocation spells, and when he got into melee he could deal respectable damage as well. But I realized my character wasn't a first string fitgher. He was a second string fighter.
The magus is a very flexable and can be a very powerful class.