Tremorsense wins. That's essentially what it's for.
It's also auto-win versus invisibility.
And no, I don't think it's overpowered. Perhaps the boots are (it does seem cheap), but the ability isn't. Many of the creatures that have tremorsense are blind or spend a lot of time burrowed into the ground, so they certainly need something that lets them function :)
But 5k for an auto win versus invisibility and stealth and essentially anything else that hides you is ridiculous.
I looked for the boots because I thought 5k was way too cheap, and discovered that their price is actually 10k. So it's not that cheap (unless you craft it yourself), plus they only have a 20 ft range.
While the boots are certainly nice, I don't see too many players actually spending that amount of gold on items as situational as they are (most of the time you don't need tremorsense) rather than spending just a little bit more on winged boots or boots of speed.
Tremorsense wins, just like scent, blindsense, and blindsight also win. They don't care about concealment for purposes of detecting a creauture which is what stealth does now if you beat the perception check.
So if a stealthed character charges from outside those 20 feet, then it would still get sneak attack damage on that attack. Right?
No. As soon as it gets within 20 ft, the character with tremorsense will know they're there.
If your stealthed assassin instead uses ranged weapons, it only needs to come within 30 ft to get sneak attack (more, with the right talents), which the tremorsense-booted character won't notice. So use ranged assassins instead :)
Conversely, if you can levitate or fly tremorsense is worthless.
The +8 is to actually see them. You dont have to see someone to be able to pinpoint their square. Pinpointing just means you know what square they are in which is all tremorsense does.
As an example if you are invisible, and I have tremorsense I still know what square you are in even if I can't see you. The fact that I know where you are is why it is an auto-detect.
Detecting is not "finding".
Another example is the rule that says you automatically know an invisible creature is within 30 feet of you with a DC 20 perception check. In that case the creature has been "detected", but not found.
|
So if tremorsense doesn't negate it, then does blindsight?
Blindsight: "Such senses may include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing, or echolocation. This makes invisibility and concealment (even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it still can't see ethereal creatures)."
so yes, it does.
|
Tremorsense and Blindsense are roughly on the same tier; they pinpoint a creature's square and provide a +8 to actually see the creature (if it can be seen). So to detect a stealthing rogue moving in for the SA, you'd have that +8 but only if you succeed do you negate SA; otherwise the rogue is benefiting from (total?) concealment and can SA. Still nice to have.
Blindsight is a tier higher because it actually bypasses invisibility and concealment (which is what stealth gives you).
Now if the original roll miss the stealth DC by less than 8, then it would make sense to tack that on to the roll, and now the sneaker is no longer hiding. The perception check is assumed to be in play the entire time. The alternative is to reroll during the entire stealth check, and the design team said the favor less rolls.
I've interpreted the tremorsense bit to mean +8 outside the listed range. Under the perception skill you automatically make your perception check within your tremorsense range.
I've interpreted the tremorsense bit to mean +8 outside the listed range. Under the perception skill you automatically make your perception check within your tremorsense range.
That makes sense also. Fluffwise i guess it extends pass the distance the monster has in the book, but not enough to detect which square a creature is in. Once you enter the field(range of the ability) it knows which square you occupy.
Does a creature with tremorsense ignore mirror images?
Most likely, but not something like blurr.
Basically, tremor sense tells you which square they are in. You still need visual confirmation for aiming. So mirror image just gives you an extra, false visual in another square, which you can ignore. Blurr makes your visual hard to get a lock on. It doesn't try to convince you about other squares at all.
Does a creature with tremorsense ignore mirror images?
No. Tremorsense just lets you know the square the person is in, just like blindsense. Blindsight would bypass mirror image though.
|
The Cave Druid can't be detected by tremorsense at 3rd level. The Dampen Presence feat does that, but for blindsight and blindsense instead. The Aquatic Survivalist trait can allow stealth against tremorsense, but once per day and only while underwater.
Though, as mentioned, keeping at range is usually the best option.
Sightless sense options are mainly for creatures that have burrow speeds, or otherwise aren't used to being able to see their opponents
Most of the special senses roflcopter stealth, including the ubiquitous scent.
The vigilante has an ability to get around each sense, but at a hefty penalty.
Darkvision doesn't give you automatic success on perceiving everything in the dark, clairvoyance doesn't mean you get an auto success at spotting your spell target if they're stealthing, any other perceiving sense doesn't get auto success against stealth. That includes any type of sensing ability (hearing, taste, smell). If a sense can be used to perceive, then it can fail. Gods could be the only exception (GM rule, betterment of the story). Some sense that are less fallible, scent, can still be beaten by a red herring, literally, but work to give a guestimate (correct 5x5 area) otherwise.
This discussion has been so far off. Circular. To detect, you sense, which can be contested with perception and stealth.
Yeah no...
Most special senses trump Stealth.
Scent does. Blindsense does. Blindsight REALLY does. Tremorsense does. Lifesense does.
That's why stuff like Negate Aroma and Dampen Presence exists.
Now, none of those besides Blindsight negates your CONCEALMENT, just reveals your PRESENCE, but they all beat Stealth's primary purpose of going undetected.