Please help... Rules on additional attack due to haste.


Rules Questions


I would like some help clarifying the additional attack provided by haste.

I believe the effect says something like "when making a full attack you make make one additional attack at your highest attack bonus".

Anyways, our group got into a debate over this because one of the players (an archer who normally has 3 attacks) cast haste specifically to get the additional attack, however they didn't want to take all of their attacks, only the first attack & the additional attack provided from the haste effect, because they didn't want to make the attacks that were at a lower attack bonus.

I argued that the additional attack provided from haste only comes after all 3 normal attacks have been attempted. Any help clarifying this rule/effect would be much appreciated.

Btw, the party had entered an archery contest & all the contestants had 6 rounds to shoot 6 arrows, but you got bonus points for finishing early. This clearly gave the hasted contestant a distinct advantage.


All groups I have played with rules that the hasted attack takes place right after the highest BAB attack.

Also, there is nothing in the rules saying that character making full attack action has to make all the available attacks.


I guess the terminology "additional attack" instead of using "second attack" is what is what's messing me up. Thanks...


A hasted attack is an iterative attack, as I understand it, means wedged in at the last second after all previous possible normal attacks. Just trying to get the highest bonus is not the intent of this wording of the haste spell, it is giving you a number of actions because you are hasted. you are not a better shot because of haste, you simply get more shots off. the statement about the bonus is because it's likely too hard to adjudicate what 'least' bonus is for every different character.


When you break it down like that, it makes perfect sense. Thanks Shadowmage.


SRD Said wrote:

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Full Attack text.

You could imply from that that the hasted attack is supposed to be the second attack made. It's made at full BAB, and the rules say highest to lowest attack bonus for iteratives. That takes a fair chunk of squinting, but might be as much precedent as you'll get.

Counterpoint to Drejk though.... there's nothing to say that they DON'T either have to take them either. It says you must take them from highest to lowest. I'd guess it's a situation that probably doesn't come up too often. I certainly wouldn't object if a player decided not to use their full attacks.

BTW, Rushlight Tournament?


Why is he refusing the additional attacks on a full-attack action? It's not like he's allowed to do anything else with the time saved.


Snyper00 wrote:


Btw, the party had entered an archery contest & all the contestants had 6 rounds to shoot 6 arrows, but you got bonus points for finishing early. This clearly gave the hasted contestant a distinct advantage.

As well it should. It is, after all, magic.

What the rules of the contest should do is ban magic or at least ban magic spells under penalty of disqualification.

Shadow Lodge

Calybos1 wrote:

Why is he refusing the additional attacks on a full-attack action? It's not like he's allowed to do anything else with the time saved.

Because it was an archery contest and he had limited arrows to shoot. Last sentence in the OP.


"You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones."

That means that you can hit a target and notice you are barely doing anything and decide to stop. If you HAD to take all your attacks it would imply that once you've chosen to do so, you become a blind monkey swinging a stick.

However, the point about when the hasted attack occurs is interesting because there is no clear guidance on it. You could argue that high numbered rolls always happen first, or you could argue that additional means that it happens after everything else. Really it becomes a DM ruling based on your opinion.

The obvious solution to this is simply getting boots of speed and activating haste as a free action the never the player wants and thus getting said attack at any point desired.


In related news, why isn't this player using rapid shot and many shot to get off 3 arrows in 2 shots at full bab anyway?


Shimesen wrote:
In related news, why isn't this player using rapid shot and many shot to get off 3 arrows in 2 shots at full bab anyway?

I guess he wants to maximize accuracy.


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Snyper00 wrote:


I argued that the additional attack provided from haste only comes after all 3 normal attacks have been attempted. Any help clarifying this rule/effect would be much appreciated.

There's no point in really requiring this because he can completely get around it anyway. He shoots (at highest BAB), he kicks the turf twice, he shoots again (haste shot at full BAB). He never has to take all attacks with the same method so he never needs to take the lower percentage shots. Just acknowledge this and let him take the 2 shots in a row rather than put him through the charade of needing to take his lower bonus iteratives (a dubious requirement in the first place).


Bill Dunn has the right of it. Mechanically, he could waste his attacks by swatting at flies or slapping his thigh or kicking the turf. They're all attacks. That would leave him only firing on his high-BAB attacks if that's what he wants to do.

Or better yet, rather than worry about the mechanics of it, which obviously allow the attacker to decide which, if any, of his attacks he wants to use, just figure out how he does it from a roleplaying perspective: he's a highly trained archer (evidenced by normally getting 3 attacks) so he knows what he's doing. He knows that if he takes just one careful shot, he usually hits. If he takes extra shots, he has to hurry and some of those he hurries so much that he is less accurate (his reduced-BAB iterative attacks). It's also not the first time he's been Hasted, so he knows how that works - it gives him time to make one more carefully-aimed shot. So, by RP, he chooses to take two carefully aimed shots rather than trying to hurry up and squeeze in two more shots that are less accurate.

Phrased like that, it's clear that it doesn't matter the shot order, or at which point in a melee round (a game mechanic the archer has never heard of) he chooses to attack, or skip an attack. For RP, none of that matters, and mechanically it doesn't matter either, as Mr. Dunn demonstrated.


For what it's worth I've always made my attacks highest attack bonus to lowest, so in that sense a hasted attack is made first.

I also don't see why one could NOT take a specific attack in a full attack sequence so I'd allow it.


You make your attacks in order from the highest bonus to the lowest, so your haste attack is generally one of the first two attacks you make.

The player came in with a smart plan. Good job, player.


I agree with DM_Blake and Bill Dunn. Don't try and force him or penalize him. Based on the RAW that you always do attacks from highest to lowest BAB the haste attack would come second (or first) but not third or later. As noted if if it did come last he could simply pass on those attacks in between or "attack the ground" or some such non-sense. Don't make him take his low bonus attacks, because all that does it make him screw up and do worse.


To offer up a further example why a the iterative attacks should be optional: Let's say that your archer was attacking an actual enemy. After the first two shots, the enemy is dead, and there are no other targets on the field. Do you require the archer to launch two more arrows at nothing? If we were looking at this from a melee attacker's perspective, would you require the Fighter to continue slashing at the dead corpse with the remainder of his attacks (assuming that there was no other target in range)?

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