Though I will admit statistics for a house cat are just silly. They should operate under special rules.
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Stamina? I assume you mean running...where most quadrupeds make us look sad, when not sprinting. Some animals can lope virtually forever...or could, if they didn't need to eat regularly. The hand-eye coordination is a fact, though...consider how few have hands...a raccoon's is pretty exceptional, though.
Our truly big advantage, however...is advanced brain AND an opposable thumb. That's one heck of a combo.
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Humans can easily run down a wolf, deer, or most other animals over a distance. You know how in Westerns you sometimes have horses dying out from under cowboys due to overwork? Humans run marathons for fun.
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Humans can easily run down a wolf, deer, or most other animals over a distance. You know how in Westerns you sometimes have horses dying out from under cowboys due to overwork? Humans run marathons for fun.
Gonna depend on the human. I'd wager that the average person cannot outrun a wolf over distance.
And if you and a wolf are running, it's most likely you running away from the wolf...and it ain't gonna go for much distance. (Real-life, not in-game)
Humans did run very very far earlier in history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
EDIT: But of course you're correct, Kthulu, in that when being chased rather than hunting, short-distance speed is more important and if you're attacked by wolves being able to run for mile upon mile makes little difference as you won't make it past a few hundred meters tops.
Creative Director
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The question is, why?
This was one of the more difficult calls I had to make in developing the Bestiary.
The short answer: Because the dire ape had to be a CR 3 monster, and the gorilla had to be less powerful than the dire ape.
By the time I started developing the apes for the Bestiary, the dire ape was locked in as an option for summon nature's ally IV, which meant it had to stay at CR 3 or thereabouts, otherwise it would break the spell.
The problem is that the dire ape has 3 attacks PLUS rend. A CR 3 creature should have a +6 attack roll and do not much more than 13 points of damage on average if all its attacks hit. The current dire ape hits the +6 attack right on the nose, but then it does on average 20 points of damage... BEFORE it adds in another 8 points from rend. Even at Strength 19, the dire ape is a really high-damage monster; it's doing the damage you'd expect a CR 5 to CR 7 monster to do. And so I had to nerf the dire ape's Strength down to 19.
And since the plain old gorilla had to be less powerful than a dire ape, the best I could do was CR 2, which meant that I had to nerf the poor gorilla's strength even more. It's still not something I'm all that happy about, but my hands were tied. I wasn't allowed to ruin summon nature's ally spells in the name of being closer to real-world gorilla strength.
Humans can easily run down a wolf, deer, or most other animals over a distance. You know how in Westerns you sometimes have horses dying out from under cowboys due to overwork? Humans run marathons for fun.Gonna depend on the human. I'd wager that the average person cannot outrun a wolf over distance.
Why? You'd probably lose that bet. The average person can march for hours a day. A wolf would be out of commission.
And if you and a wolf are running, it's most likely you running away from the wolf...and it ain't gonna go for much distance. (Real-life, not in-game)
In real life, there would be little reason to run from a wolf. By ape standards, humans are pretty weak... but we are still apes. A human of average size can probably kill a wolf with their bare hands. Just watch out for the teeth. Wolves are primarily dangerous to adult humans because, first, they might have rabies, and second, they travel in groups. When was the last time you read a news story about an adult human being killed by any kind of wolf or dog? If you want something in your weight class that is really dangerous, you need to look at cats.
Bears, now those are scary.
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Humans can easily run down a wolf, deer, or most other animals over a distance. You know how in Westerns you sometimes have horses dying out from under cowboys due to overwork? Humans run marathons for fun.Gonna depend on the human. I'd wager that the average person cannot outrun a wolf over distance.
Why? You'd probably lose that bet. The average person can march for hours a day. A wolf would be out of commission.
And if you and a wolf are running, it's most likely you running away from the wolf...and it ain't gonna go for much distance. (Real-life, not in-game)In real life, there would be little reason to run from a wolf. By ape standards, humans are pretty weak... but we are still apes. A human of average size can probably kill a wolf with their bare hands. Just watch out for the teeth. Wolves are primarily dangerous to adult humans because, first, they might have rabies, and second, they travel in groups. When was the last time you read a news story about an adult human being killed by any kind of wolf or dog? If you want something in your weight class that is really dangerous, you need to look at cats.
Bears, now those are scary.
Wolves walk, trot, lope, or gallop. Their legs are long, and they walk at about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) per hour, but can reach speeds of 35 mph during a chase. Their usual mode of travel is to trot, which they do at various speeds, generally between 8 to 10 miles (12.8 to 16 kilometers) per hour.
Wolves do not run at full speed until they get close to their prey as possible. At that point, they make a high-speed chase to test the animal.
Wolves can keep up this pace for hours on end and have been known to cover 60 miles (96 kilometers) in a single night. They have been clocked at speeds of over 40 miles (64 kilometers) per hour for a distance of several miles.
Man, I have no idea what wolves you're talking about, but humans simply can't do that.
Oh, and you might be big and bad enough to handle one wolf...though most people aren't...but they travel in packs. Usually a half-dozen or more.
Wolves can be fast when its cold. In warmer climates theyd stand no chance against humans. Looking at records or "have been known to" speeds is also a bit vague.
Wolves are quick in their chosen environment though, although humans can probably win out if its a several days long chase.
http://mobile.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/06/long_distance_ru nning_and_evolution_why_humans_can_outrun_horses_but_can_t_jump_higher_than _cats_.single.html
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Wolves can be fast when its cold. In warmer climates theyd stand no chance against humans. Looking at records or "have been known to" speeds is also a bit vague.
Wolves are quick in their chosen environment though, although humans can probably win out if its a several days long chase.
http://mobile.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/06/long_distance_ru nning_and_evolution_why_humans_can_outrun_horses_but_can_t_jump_higher_than _cats_.single.html
"In warmer climates"?
Wolves don't live in warmer climates...that's why they have warm fur coats. Sure, put them somewhere where they're all but dying in the heat and a man can catch up after a couple of days. I'm sure a man can run rings around a beached shark, too.
Now, seriously, when's the last time homo sapiens ran for days? I mean...not one or two exceptional marathon runners...but racially.
Incidentally, page not found on your link.
Here's a story about a Russian granny fending off a wolf with her bare hands, then killing it with an axe. STORY
HERE is a Wikipedia article on how humans did, and still do, kill antelope by chasing them until they can not run any longer, then kill them with a spear.
A marathon is over 26 miles. Considering how much faster wolves are than humans, a 60 mile hunt in a night does not seem all that impressive. The word records for finishing a marathon are about two and a half hours.
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Now, seriously, when's the last time homo sapiens ran for days? I mean...not one or two exceptional marathon runners...but racially.
The "marathon monks" of Japan would be an example. A first year monk is expected to run 30km a day for 100 days.
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Wolves are hunters, and they travel far and wide to locate prey. They may travel 50 miles or more each day in search of food, and they are superbly designed for a life on the move. Because their elbows turn inward, their lean bodies are precisely balanced over their large feet. With their long legs and ground-eating stride, they can travel tirelessly for hours on end with no energy wasted. Dispersing wolves, those leaving packs in search of their own mates, have been known to travel hundreds of miles away from their home territory. Satellite and Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) collars allow researchers to document the truly remarkable travels of wolves.
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The "marathon monks" of Japan would be an example. A first year monk is expected to run 30km a day for 100 days.
Now, seriously, when's the last time homo sapiens ran for days? I mean...not one or two exceptional marathon runners...but racially.
30km. Do you get how short a distance that is? That's about 18 miles...I've walked over 30 in a day. What kind of distances are you familiar with?
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Here's a story about a Russian granny fending off a wolf with her bare hands, then killing it with an axe. STORY
HERE is a Wikipedia article on how humans did, and still do, kill antelope by chasing them until they can not run any longer, then kill them with a spear.
A marathon is over 26 miles. Considering how much faster wolves are than humans, a 60 mile hunt in a night does not seem all that impressive. The word records for finishing a marathon are about two and a half hours.
It's a nice story, and its rarity is what makes it interesting. Wolf attacks are almost always on young, the elderly, and the infirm...they don't pick prey that might injure them, as a rule...but that's also a point...they almost always take down human prey.
I knew a lady that had 2 full-bred wolves...she was part Amerindian, or it would have been illegal. The male was 160#, and could easily yank her off her feet...he was gregarious, having lived as a pet all his life, and made friends easily...often knocking over even grown men in the process.
30km. Do you get how short a distance that is? That's about 18 miles...I've walked over 30 in a day. What kind of distances are you familiar with?The "marathon monks" of Japan would be an example. A first year monk is expected to run 30km a day for 100 days.
Now, seriously, when's the last time homo sapiens ran for days? I mean...not one or two exceptional marathon runners...but racially.
You asked for examples of a human running for many hours a day, two days in a row. I found an example of humans running hours a day, a hundred days in a row. If you wanted examples of humans crossing vast distances in a single day, you should have said so.
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You asked for examples of a human running for many hours a day, two days in a row. I found an example of humans running hours a day, a hundred days in a row. If you wanted examples of humans crossing vast distances in a single day, you should have said so.30km. Do you get how short a distance that is? That's about 18 miles...I've walked over 30 in a day. What kind of distances are you familiar with?The "marathon monks" of Japan would be an example. A first year monk is expected to run 30km a day for 100 days.
Now, seriously, when's the last time homo sapiens ran for days? I mean...not one or two exceptional marathon runners...but racially.
Wolves very typically range 20+ miles in a day. Your monks would catch up in...ummm...never.
...and these are monks, training for it...not even close to average 'people'.
Humans can range 20+ miles in a day. That's actually a pretty normal speed.
Apparently a Hopi named Charlie Talawepi made a 72 mile run in less than 36 hours.
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Humans can range 20+ miles in a day. That's actually a pretty normal speed.
Apparently a Hopi named Charlie Talawepi made a 72 mile run in less than 36 hours.
Humans definitely can, and that's why I'm unimpressed with the monks. Heck, I used to get bored and walk to the next town over when I couldn't sleep at night...wander around at the open air mall all morning...and then head home. Sometimes I did it 2-3 days in a row. It was 12 miles, one way. That's in the high 20s, easily...24 minimum.
That 72 miles in 36 hours is impressive...and getting close to what wolves can...and do...do. They've been known to range 50 miles in a day, so he's managed what packs have been known to do...but they've done it regularly.
"In warmer climates"?
Wolves don't live in warmer climates...
You might want to recheck that. We've had wolves around our areas on and off, and our summer temperatures average around 54-68 degrees fahrenheit (12-20 celsius), sometimes up to 70-75. They're decently common not so far up north. Due to hunting they're not very common at all in Sweden, but not restricted to the northest part at all.
There was a few autoinserted spaces in the link, this one should work.
Excerpt:
"Our "sustainable distance" is also hard to beat. African hunting dogs typically travel an average of 10 kilometers a day. Wolves and hyenas tend to go about 14 and 19 kilometers, respectively. In repeated distance runs, horses can cover about 20 kilometers a day. Vast throngs of human runners, by comparison, routinely run 42.2-kilometer marathons in just a few hours, and each year tens of thousands of people complete ultra-marathons of 100 kilometers and longer. (A few animals can match that under special circumstances. Huskies can trot up to 100 kilometers in Arctic conditions when forced to by people. But in warmer climes—no way.)
Given all this, you might wonder why it took so long for a human to win the Man vs. Horse Marathon. For one thing, the world’s top runners rarely compete in oddball races in rural Wales. And the 22-mile run (the Welsh race is shorter than the standard 26.2-mile marathon) through a damp, shady landscape doesn't usually heat-stress horses much, thus largely negating the human runners’ edge. (Not surprisingly, the weather has been notably warm when men prevailed.) Human runners, by the way, have also sometimes won the annual Man Against Horse Race in Prescott, Ariz., in which contestants clamber up and down a mountain on 50 miles of rocky trails."
I'm an overweight, lazy person with both back and knee problems. I've walked about 110-120 miles in five days once. That's walked, not run. Granted, I packed light, and was exhausted afterwards and didn't do much except walking, but if I can do that, what would to someone who does physically straining activities on a regular basis be able to do?
That said, of course, wolves are VERY GOOD runners in their own territory, better than most quadropeds.
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My understanding has always been that the stats in the Bestiary are for an 'average' member of the species. For example, if there were a 'human' entry they would have three 10s and three 11s. Thus, a 15 strength in the Gorilla block would imply that they have a +4 racial strength bonus. Yes, that is still low... but it gives you more room to adjust. Give that Gorilla an 18 base strength, plus the racial bonus and you're up to 22 strength for a particularly strong Gorilla. Much more reasonable.
Pathfinder (like every version of D&D) doesn't do a great job capturing the real abilities of animals in general. The one that always makes me laugh is that Pathfinder bats are all but helpless in the dark (e.g. bugs have total concealment and bats must move at half speed or have a 50% chance of crashing). As such, I usually take the Bestiary stats for animals that are going to be around for a single combat, but make up more realistic values for animals that have a bigger part to play.
"In warmer climates"?Wolves don't live in warmer climates...that's why they have warm fur coats. Sure, put them somewhere where they're all but dying in the heat and a man can catch up after a couple of days.
Let me note in addition the above information showing that humans can and do range almost as far as wolves in optimum conditions for the wolves, that Texas has a native red wolf population.
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"In warmer climates"?
Wolves don't live in warmer climates...
You might want to recheck that. We've had wolves around our areas on and off, and our summer temperatures average around 54-68 degrees fahrenheit (12-20 celsius), sometimes up to 70-75. They're decently common not so far up north. Due to hunting they're not very common at all in Sweden, but not restricted to the northest part at all.
There was a few autoinserted spaces in the link, this one should work.
Excerpt:
"Our "sustainable distance" is also hard to beat. African hunting dogs typically travel an average of 10 kilometers a day. Wolves and hyenas tend to go about 14 and 19 kilometers, respectively. In repeated distance runs, horses can cover about 20 kilometers a day. Vast throngs of human runners, by comparison, routinely run 42.2-kilometer marathons in just a few hours, and each year tens of thousands of people complete ultra-marathons of 100 kilometers and longer. (A few animals can match that under special circumstances. Huskies can trot up to 100 kilometers in Arctic conditions when forced to by people. But in warmer climes—no way.)Given all this, you might wonder why it took so long for a human to win the Man vs. Horse Marathon. For one thing, the world’s top runners rarely compete in oddball races in rural Wales. And the 22-mile run (the Welsh race is shorter than the standard 26.2-mile marathon) through a damp, shady landscape doesn't usually heat-stress horses much, thus largely negating the human runners’ edge. (Not surprisingly, the weather has been notably warm when men prevailed.) Human runners, by the way, have also sometimes won the annual Man Against Horse Race in Prescott, Ariz., in which contestants clamber up and down a mountain on 50 miles of rocky trails."
That's not that warm. I live in Texas...there haven't been any this far south in...I dunno...human history?
Ah, red wolves...yes, a different species. All but extinct.
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Uh, up until humans came and killed them off, we had Red Wolves here in Florida.
Red wolves have actually been reintroduced to a couple islands in the Gulf IIRC and are doing well. St Vincent Island, and Cape St. George Island IIRC. I think there is one island by Mississippi too.
It all depends on the wolf species. Though for sure wolves in Florida aren't big endurance runners. They have huge issues regulating heat.
Even dogs with really light coats tend to die from heat exhaustion well before a human runner gets uncomfortable. Humans lack of fur and their ability to sweat buckets allows us to maintain a very high degree of energy for long periods of time compared to other animals.
In warm climates our endurance has no contest with other animals.
Right. It's not really good for them...at all. Our unique way of cooling through perspiration makes a big difference.
OTOH, put wolves where they excel, and NO human can match them.
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Red Wolves. Also coyotes...That's not that warm. I live in Texas...there haven't been any this far south in...I dunno...human history?"In warmer climates"?
Wolves don't live in warmer climates...
You might want to recheck that. We've had wolves around our areas on and off, and our summer temperatures average around 54-68 degrees fahrenheit (12-20 celsius), sometimes up to 70-75. They're decently common not so far up north. Due to hunting they're not very common at all in Sweden, but not restricted to the northest part at all.
There was a few autoinserted spaces in the link, this one should work.
Excerpt:
"Our "sustainable distance" is also hard to beat. African hunting dogs typically travel an average of 10 kilometers a day. Wolves and hyenas tend to go about 14 and 19 kilometers, respectively. In repeated distance runs, horses can cover about 20 kilometers a day. Vast throngs of human runners, by comparison, routinely run 42.2-kilometer marathons in just a few hours, and each year tens of thousands of people complete ultra-marathons of 100 kilometers and longer. (A few animals can match that under special circumstances. Huskies can trot up to 100 kilometers in Arctic conditions when forced to by people. But in warmer climes—no way.)Given all this, you might wonder why it took so long for a human to win the Man vs. Horse Marathon. For one thing, the world’s top runners rarely compete in oddball races in rural Wales. And the 22-mile run (the Welsh race is shorter than the standard 26.2-mile marathon) through a damp, shady landscape doesn't usually heat-stress horses much, thus largely negating the human runners’ edge. (Not surprisingly, the weather has been notably warm when men prevailed.) Human runners, by the way, have also sometimes won the annual Man Against Horse Race in Prescott, Ariz., in which contestants clamber up and down a mountain on 50 miles of rocky trails."
All canines have common ancestry, yes. Wolves never did adapt well in the south, though...the coyote is significantly different...a lot smaller and doesn't build up heat as fast.
Red Wolves are not PF wolves. They're small, and definitely not 2 HD.
Not only that, but as apex predators, they pretty much have to be 2 HD.
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There is a HUGE difference between even the smaller of the two wolves my lady friend had and an average red wolf. Assuming they have the same stats is pretty silly. I don't imagine any red wolves have a Str of 13...wolves are CR 1...red wolves are really more in the dog category.
LOL...a common dog has a 13, too. Go fig. I mean...some breeds, but the average?
Gray wolves are larger, but not much larger. And red wolves hunt deer.
Gray wolves are larger, but not much larger. And red wolves hunt deer.The reintroduced populations today do out of necessity, but the vast bulk of their diet consists of rabbit, raccoon, and various rodents.
Yes, of course. I was mainly mentioning that in relation to the "can they justify a Strength 13?" comment. Even gray wolves eat mainly mice and stuff.
he two she had were 95 and 160 lbs. Yes, the male was relatively huge. Red wolves rarely broke 90 lbs, and most were 50-60.
Wikipedia says red wolves average 60 lbs or so, and gray wolves about 90. Northern populations apparently tend toward 100+, while southern populations are closer to red wolf size. Almost none of that really matters in game terms. Some of the smaller red wolves might be better as Str 11 or 12 critters, and your 160 lb. fellow is probably Str 14, say, but we're still not talking about large differences in absolute terms. The strongest gray wolf is still no match for an average Bengal tiger.
That's pretty much where we entered this discussion. Even a strong human is no match to an average chimp in terms of hauling or grappling, but conversely, a chimp is no match for a human at using a club and can't swim at all. Chimps are relatively more efficient at doing the chimps do, and therefore should probably have a somewhat higher Strength score, but they don't need a much higher one based on secondary concerns, like lifting capacity. Because of the way they are built, apes might as well be one Size category larger for purposes of carrying capacity and grappling. So, that's why I peg gorillas at just past what a strong, heroic human can do. 21 is good enough for most purposes, 23 is probably better but that starts edging into CR 3 territory.
On reflection, I'm not sure apes should actually rate a slam attack. Humans are actually more adept at attacking in that way. A standard gorilla attack is a grab, followed by a twist (unarmed strike) or a bite. I wouldn't want to be punched by a gorilla, but only because of how big they are.
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Gray wolves are larger, but not much larger. And red wolves hunt deer.The reintroduced populations today do out of necessity, but the vast bulk of their diet consists of rabbit, raccoon, and various rodents.Yes, of course. I was mainly mentioning that in relation to the "can they justify a Strength 13?" comment. Even gray wolves eat mainly mice and stuff.
he two she had were 95 and 160 lbs. Yes, the male was relatively huge. Red wolves rarely broke 90 lbs, and most were 50-60.
Wikipedia says red wolves average 60 lbs or so, and gray wolves about 90. Northern populations apparently tend toward 100+, while southern populations are closer to red wolf size. Almost none of that really matters in game terms. Some of the smaller red wolves might be better as Str 11 or 12 critters, and your 160 lb. fellow is probably Str 14, say, but we're still not talking about large differences in absolute terms. The strongest gray wolf is still no match for an average Bengal tiger.
That's pretty much where we entered this discussion. Even a strong human is no match to an average chimp in terms of hauling or grappling, but conversely, a chimp is no match for a human at using a club and can't swim at all. Chimps are relatively more efficient at doing the chimps do, and therefore should probably have a somewhat higher Strength score, but they don't need a much higher one based on secondary concerns, like lifting capacity. Because of the way they are built, apes might as well be one Size category larger for purposes of carrying capacity and grappling. So, that's why I peg gorillas at just past what a strong, heroic human can do. 21 is good enough for most purposes, 23 is probably better but that starts edging into CR 3 territory.
On reflection, I'm not sure apes should actually rate a slam attack. Humans are actually more adept at attacking in that way. A standard gorilla attack is a grab, followed by a twist (unarmed strike) or a bite....
For game terms, I like your numbers. Gorillas actually do slam, in combat...and it's pretty significant, to another gorilla. I'm not too sure about chimps, though.
You know...the crazy thing...I could hold back that big wolf, with him on a leash...and I mean pretty easily. Now...I am a big guy, but I don't think I rate like a 16-18 Str...and I actually saw someone smaller than me do it.
The lady that owned them was literally under 100 lbs soaking wet...he could seriously take off with her. I'm really not sure what that says about relative strengths...but I would think that the average wolf really isn't a 13...and they are a bit stronger than typical dogs.
A mastiff, on the other hand...I don't know that most men could hold one back, if it was determined...
That's dominance combat, though. Those are unarmed strikes. Gorillas don't *kill* each other by punching. Its more like sumo wrestling. And when a gorilla kills a chimp, they do it by pulling its arm off. Not punching.
A leash is a significant advantage. Imagine trying to ringout a 160 lb dog, it would be much more difficult. Not hugely; a person in good shape can be be stronger than a big dog. If dogs and wolves had shown in Pathfinder with Strength 11, I wouldn't complain. 13 is probably a more playable value, since PCs are more likely to fight hungry wolves than they are Lassie.
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That's dominance combat, though. Those are unarmed strikes. Gorillas don't *kill* each other by punching. Its more like sumo wrestling. And when a gorilla kills a chimp, they do it by pulling its arm off. Not punching.
A leash is a significant advantage. Imagine trying to ringout a 160 lb dog, it would be much more difficult. Not hugely; a person in good shape can be be stronger than a big dog. If dogs and wolves had shown in Pathfinder with Strength 11, I wouldn't complain. 13 is probably a more playable value, since PCs are more likely to fight hungry wolves than they are Lassie.
It is, but it's also likely to be what they do when humans invade their space.
Umm...are there known cases of gorillas ripping the arms off of chimpanzees? I've never heard of that...
As to wolf strength...not that I disagree...it just makes me think.
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you know, If i was a druid i would spend a lot of time creating a race of Awakened Gorillas.
Just because gorillas are awesome.
F**k chimpanzees though. They are homicidal a**holes.
I'd use my awesome plant powers to wildgrowth the sh*t out of the herbs and oil producing plants to get tons and tons of the material component for free.
EDIT:
Sorta unrelated, but I think that a lot of animals should have different INT scores, not just the 2 INT of non-sentience.
The various apes, dolphins, and a few other animals including parrots and ravens should have an INT of 3. maybe even 4 for some apes and porpoises.
Anyone else agree?
It would make an interesting conundrum for a Paladin coming across poachers of Apes in a jungle.
I can see a plothook of a Paladin learning just how intelligent Apes can be, and then learning of a lively Bushmeat trade. His principles would lead him to trying to stop the slaughter by tracking poachers, petitioning the King, going on quests to gain favors etc...
Maybe hes traveling and a Druid petitions him for aid in stopping said injustice.
Koko created sentences. She tested out as an 80 IQ. If that's not above a 2, what is? Assuming she was a genius among gorillas, they should probably have at least a 3-4.
I like your idea of a race of awakened gorillas...in fact...it's been done...Planet of the Apes...DC Comics had a group of them...why not Pathfinder? They'd be amazing shock troops... :D
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Koko created sentences. She tested out as an 80 IQ. If that's not above a 2, what is? Assuming she was a genius among gorillas, they should probably have at least a 3-4.
I like your idea of a race of awakened gorillas...in fact...it's been done...Planet of the Apes...DC Comics had a group of them...why not Pathfinder? They'd be amazing shock troops... :D
Well Gorillas are fairly non-violent and don't have the best stamina compared to a human.
But can you imagine an Awakened Gorilla Fighter wielding a tower shield like it was a light shield and a bastard sword in one hand like it was a shortsword?
Add on inch thick steel plate armor... Thats got to have some pretty impressive DR for steel that thick. Better than adamantine plate armor offers for sure.
The Tank has arrived!
Definitely...and though they're non-violent as a rule, that can be over-ridden...they get mighty testy when they think someone is threatening them...make them intelligent, and I'm sure they'd be willing to fight against...bad stuff. ;)
Chimpanzees are like the droogs from A Clockwork Orange.
Also, this thread got wolf-tastic, all of a sudden.
While looking for well-documented attacks by gorillas on chimps, I accidentally ran into this link:
Could a Human Beat a Chimp in a Fight?
The answer, as you might imagine, is, "Yes, but you wouldn't want to." The chimp usually wins, but not always. While we talk about how monstrously strong chimps are for their size, chimps are probably in awe at how horrible we are. If you are a chimp fighting a human, expect to be choked, beaten with sticks, dunked into a bucket of water, or perhaps have your brains bashed against architecture.
Well, don't bring a stick to a chimp fight. :)